Precedent Faith

[netchaplain]

Can you pray for others salvation? I believe one can pray in hope that one’s name is in the Book of Life. Actually, salvation is one thing you need not to pray for others, because “everyone that should be saved—will be saved!” Plus, the names of all who will be saved are already in the Book of Life, which was written before creation (Phl 4:3; 1Pe 1:2; Rev 20:15), and the names cannot be deleted (Rev 3:5).

This puts all responsibility on God concerning one being saved. It’s entirely comforting to know all this, especially if your name is in the Book. It means regardless of what you will encounter in your life you will be saved! Some telltales of salvation is seen all through the life of one who will be reborn. If we think about it, God has always meant something to you if you’re saved.

We see the buildup of concern for God the older we get, and things begin to come together more all the time that are related to God. Then He sends to you the one who will have the most effect on you about salvation, and before you know it—you realize you believe in God and Christ, and receive the Lord Jesus as your Savior.

Then you find you have more concern for the Word of God and for being with other Christians. You’re reading and studying it as much as you can. Then comes the times of trials and temptations God sends to strengthen your faith by exercising it in trusting Him to “work” everything out for your “good” (Ro 8:28).

It is as you unceasingly grow in the Lord Jesus (Eph 4:15), that you will find your craft of life taking you onward and upward via the trials and temptations that continue to “increase” the strength and vitality of your “faith” (Luk 17:5). As you continue to “endure” the “hardness” of the on-and-off testing of your faith (2Ti 2:3), you see yourself in the most important light; that of being “conformed to the image of His Son” (Rom 8:29; 2Co 3:18).

 

[Consecrated Life]

Can you pray for others salvation? I believe one can pray in hope that one’s name is in the Book of Life. Actually, salvation is one thing you need not to pray for others, because “everyone that should be saved—will be saved!” Plus, the names of all who will be saved are already in the Book of Life, which was written before creation (Phl 4:3; 1Pe 1:2; Rev 20:15), and the names cannot be deleted (Rev 3:5).

This puts all responsibility on God concerning one being saved.

Negative.
No person is saved short of Loving the Lord .
You cannot force a person to love you & God cannot force a person to love Him.
That is against the very nature of God.
This is what sets Christianity apart from all the religions of the world.
If you don't Love Him as the greatest commandment says you cannot be saved.
God will not force any person to Love Him.
Love is only love if done of complete free will .
His care , His guidance , His Salvation , His perfect peace is obtained through Love for Him, not slavery inflicted by Him.


Mar 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

 

[netchaplain]

Negative.
No person is saved short of Loving the Lord .
You cannot force a person to love you & God cannot force a person to love Him.
That is against the very nature of God.
This is what sets Christianity apart from all the religions of the world.
If you don't Love Him as the greatest commandment says you cannot be saved.
God will not force any person to Love Him.
Love is only love if done of complete free will .
His care , His guidance , His Salvation , His perfect peace is obtained through Love for Him, not slavery inflicted by Him.


Mar 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Amen, and true! Those who truly want to be saved will be saved, then after being saved they will learn to love and be obedient to God, manifesting their salvation.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Can you pray for others salvation? I believe one can pray in hope that one’s name is in the Book of Life. Actually, salvation is one thing you need not to pray for others, because “everyone that should be saved—will be saved!” Plus, the names of all who will be saved are already in the Book of Life, which was written before creation (Phl 4:3; 1Pe 1:2; Rev 20:15), and the names cannot be deleted (Rev 3:5).

I believe God may prolong the life of the unrepentant because a believer is showing them the love of Christ and God hears us.

This puts all responsibility on God concerning one being saved.

Yes it does, but God has already determined that anyone may and all must repent to be saved. So "Gods' responsibility" is to forgive sinners who want forgivness and then He makes us like His Son.

It’s entirely comforting to know all this, especially if your name is in the Book. It means regardless of what you will encounter in your life you will be saved! Some telltales of salvation is seen all through the life of one who will be reborn. If we think about it, God has always meant something to you if you’re saved.

I think I read where God blotted out the names of all the men (of a certain age) who left Egypt in Exodus. I do know the Messiah warned He would blot out a church member for unrepentance. That's just what God and His Son said.

We see the buildup of concern for God the older we get, and things begin to come together more all the time that are related to God. Then He sends to you the one who will have the most effect on you about salvation, and before you know it—you realize you believe in God and Christ, and receive the Lord Jesus as your Savior.

Then you find you have more concern for the Word of God and for being with other Christians. You’re reading and studying it as much as you can. Then comes the times of trials and temptations God sends to strengthen your faith by exercising it in trusting Him to “work” everything out for your “good” (Ro 8:28).

It is as you unceasingly grow in the Lord Jesus (Eph 4:15), that you will find your craft of life taking you onward and upward via the trials and temptations that continue to “increase” the strength and vitality of your “faith” (Luk 17:5). As you continue to “endure” the “hardness” of the on-and-off testing of your faith (2Ti 2:3), you see yourself in the most important light; that of being “conformed to the image of His Son” (Rom 8:29; 2Co 3:18).

"Being conformed to the image of His Son" is a matter of sowing and reaping. Planting the word in word and deed to friend and foe.

The world sees believers as powerless. There is all power in in sharing the gospel and judgement may fall after a believer has endured all he can and shakes the dust off.

 

[netchaplain]

I think I read where God blotted out the names of all the men (of a certain age) who left Egypt in Exodus. I do know the Messiah warned He would blot out a church member for unrepentance. That's just what God and His Son said.

Hi, and like your reply! I believe after we understand that God being omniscient knows everything, He would not need to put a name in the Book and then have to remove it. The phrase "blot out" has the same sense as the name was never in the Book. I think Gill's commentary explains it okay.

John Gill: whosoever hath sinned against Me, him will I blot out of My book; not that anyone that is really in the book of life is ever blotted out, or that anyone predestinated or ordained to eternal life ever perish: but some persons may think themselves, and they may seem to be written in that book, or to be among the number of God's elect, but are not, and turn out obstinate impenitent sinners, and live and die in impenitence and unbelief; when it will appear that their names were never written in it, which, is the same thing as to be blotted out of it, see Psalm 69:28.

Now by this answer the Lord does not absolutely refuse the request of Moses with respect to the people, though he does with regard to himself, and the blotting his name out of his book; and it is plain, by what follows, he meant to show mercy to the people, since he bids Moses go and lead them on towards Canaan, and promises an angel to go before them."

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Hi, and like your reply! I believe after we understand that God being omniscient knows everything, He would not need to put a name in the Book and then have to remove it. The phrase "blot out" has the same sense as the name was never in the Book. I think Gill's commentary explains it okay.

John Gill: whosoever hath sinned against Me, him will I blot out of My book; not that anyone that is really in the book of life is ever blotted out, or that anyone predestinated or ordained to eternal life ever perish: but some persons may think themselves, and they may seem to be written in that book, or to be among the number of God's elect, but are not, and turn out obstinate impenitent sinners, and live and die in impenitence and unbelief; when it will appear that their names were never written in it, which, is the same thing as to be blotted out of it, see Psalm 69:28.

Now by this answer the Lord does not absolutely refuse the request of Moses with respect to the people, though he does with regard to himself, and the blotting his name out of his book; and it is plain, by what follows, he meant to show mercy to the people, since he bids Moses go and lead them on towards Canaan, and promises an angel to go before them."

Hi.
God "predestinated", decided before, to forgive people who come to Him in faith. God has given all mankind reasons for believing in Him. His resurrection is the greatest reason.

God never denies any sinner who is serious about knowing Him. God doesn't answer imsincerity and He knows all hearts.

 

[Tenchi]

Can you pray for others salvation? I believe one can pray in hope that one’s name is in the Book of Life. Actually, salvation is one thing you need not to pray for others, because “everyone that should be saved—will be saved!”

Where in the Bible is this stated, exactly? Certainly, God knows who will be saved. But this doesn't mean He ordains the salvation of every person. That's Calvinist error. See: www.soteriology101.com .

Beginning with Christ's direct disciples, we, the Church, are commanded to "go into all the World and preach the Gospel" (Mark 16:15) and to "make disciples of all nations" (Matthew 28:20) which necessitates a sharing of the Gospel. No obedient Christian, then, "hides his light under a basket," but is openly, freely sharing the Good News of salvation in Jesus.

It means regardless of what you will encounter in your life you will be saved!

??? Who but God knows who will choose Christ and who will not? God makes no guarantee that any particular individual will be saved. In fact, the Bible says that there are few who find the Narrow Way that leads to life (Matthew 7:14).

Some telltales of salvation is seen all through the life of one who will be reborn.

??? The Bible's description of people prior to being saved offers no such "telltales." Instead, the picture the Bible paints of the lost person is very dire and desperate:

Titus 3:3-5
3 For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another.
4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
5 he saved us...

Ephesians 2:1-3
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Colossians 1:21-22
21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,
22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death...

John 3:19-20
19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

If we think about it, God has always meant something to you if you’re saved.

No. See above.

We see the buildup of concern for God the older we get, and things begin to come together more all the time that are related to God.

??? I don't see this among the older folk I know who are not saved. They grow more and more set in their rebellion toward God and their sin, just as the Bible warns they will. And they certainly aren't in any familial way related to God!

Jeremiah 13:23
23 "Can the Ethiopian change his skin Or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good Who are accustomed to doing evil.

Romans 1:25-26
25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions...

1 Timothy 4:2
2 ...seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

Hebrews 3:13
13 ... hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

Then He sends to you the one who will have the most effect on you about salvation, and before you know it—you realize you believe in God and Christ, and receive the Lord Jesus as your Savior.

You make this sound like belief in Jesus just sort of sneaks up on you. Is this biblical? Do you see this surprised-by-belief thing described in the Bible? I don't.

 

[netchaplain]

Hi.
God "predestinated", decided before, to forgive people who come to Him in faith.

Hi, and thanks for the reply! This of course is true, and He already knows all who will come to Him, which answers for the existence of the Book of Life.

 

[netchaplain]

Where in the Bible is this stated, exactly? Certainly, God knows who will be saved. But this doesn't mean He ordains the salvation of every person.

Hi, and appreciate your replies! To me, ordain just means foreknowledge of one who will be saved. God ordains salvation to all whom He knows will choose Him.

God makes no guarantee that any particular individual will be saved.

Doesn't He ensure the salvation of the believer?

In fact, the Bible says that there are few who find the Narrow Way that leads to life (Matthew 7:14).

This is a good point, for it say the majority of mankind will be lost. If we totaled the number of the lost and compared it to the number of the saved after this life is through, the number of the saved will be few in comparison to the number of the lost. Most of mankind has never desired to be right with God.

??? The Bible's description of people prior to being saved offers no such "telltales." Instead, the picture the Bible paints of the lost person is very dire and desperate:

There is a difference in the life of those who will be saved and those who will be lost. I've learned by talking with other Christians about this and they agree that there were many times they thought about God, and have recalled times where God kept them safe from even death.

??? I don't see this among the older folk I know who are not saved!

I referring to those who will be saved, God works in their life to eventually bring them the the Lord Jesus.

You make this sound like belief in Jesus just sort of sneaks up on you.

God works gradually in the life of one who He knows is going to choose His way. He takes His time to shape the believer!

 

[netchaplain]

It’s my understanding that individuals must decide for themselves to choose to be right with God. Can you imagine how many more would be saved if God caused everyone who was prayed for to be saved? I believe once one desires God enough to choose Him, He causes them to come to salvation; and He also causes them to “desire and perform of His good pleasure” (Phl 2:13).

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Hi, and thanks for the reply! This of course is true, and He already knows all who will come to Him, which answers for the existence of the Book of Life.

Yes, but the point of the gospel is that God doesn't hold the innocent responsible for what the guilty do and He gives sinners time to repent. That's what the Messiah was doing...not holding their sins against them. They sinned whenever they opposed Him.
Everyone on earth had his name written in the Book of Life.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I believe once one desires God enough to choose Him, He causes them to come to salvation; and He also causes them to “desire and perform of His good pleasure” (Phl 2:13).

God causes sinners to choose Him when their hearts are touched by what Jesus did.
netchaplain,
This is why I often ask folks how they would feel if their own innocent child was tortured and killed.

Our King could have ended their lives anytime He wanted but chose mercy above judgenent.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. Zech.12:10 KJV

This is the heart of our Father in Heaven. It's the heart of any loving parent. To see Jesus as we would our own child, like God sees His own Son. It would be heart rending.

I think also our Savior will still not be angry when He appears. The unsaved will be destroyed because they were not prepared to meet Him. Like in the OT when the Lord appeared in fire and the mountain quaked.

Jesus next appears in fire consuming everything left perishable in existence.

 

[netchaplain]

Yes, but the point of the gospel is that God doesn't hold the innocent responsible for what the guilty do and He gives sinners time to repent. That's what the Messiah was doing...not holding their sins against them. They sinned whenever they opposed Him.
Everyone on earth had his name written in the Book of Life.

I realize the Book of Life is a bit difficult to understand, but it just contains all whom God already knows, even before creation, will choose to be right with Him; and these names cannot be deleted nor does He need to add to the Book.

 

[netchaplain]

God causes sinners to choose Him when their hearts are touched by what Jesus did.

I believe the first thing that has to exist is the desire to be right with God; and this is man's part, then God brings them to salvation. If God has to first make them want Him, He would have to do this to everyone, because it wouldn't be fair for Him to choose who will or won't be saved; He is not a "respecter of persons (Luk 20:21; Act 10:34; Rom 2:11; Gal 2:6; Eph 6:9; Col 3:25; 1Pe 1:17). God knows all the "whosoever will." All that should be saved will be saved!

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

It’s entirely comforting to know all this, especially if your name is in the Book.

This is a misstatement, right? You can't be saying that "it's entirely comforting to know all this" if your name is not in the Book? Or do you think there are people entirely comforted whose names are not in the Book? I guess that's possible. That brings up a good question... how does one come to know his name is not in the Book? Or is it only knowable by inference after you are saved, meaning, "I know I'm in the Book because I'm saved"?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I realize the Book of Life is a bit difficult to understand, but it just contains all whom God already knows, even before creation, will choose to be right with Him; and these names cannot be deleted nor does He need to add to the Book.

To be regarded as a sinner, knowledge of good and evil is required. Neither Adam or Eve understood that disobeying God is sin before they ate. They understood after disobedience, not before, that disobedience to God is sin. They were never abandoned by God. They were instructed by God what they need to do to subdue the flesh nature.

There's nothing difficult about understanding that God created every human being entering this world without sin and blameless.

 

[for_his_glory]

Names were written in the Lambs book of life, but many names have been blotted out as they began to be deceived in rejecting God and His Son Christ Jesus as they followed after other gods.

These are the ones who from the beginning that have there names written in the Lamb's book of life for it is impossible for them to have their names blotted out of the book of life.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

These are those whose names are blotted out of the book of life as given the opportunity had no faith neither were they overcomers through Christ having no faith

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I believe the first thing that has to exist is the desire to be right with God; and this is man's part, then God brings them to salvation.

No. The first thing that has to happen is the reason why anyone whould desire God and God initiates that,

We love him, because he first loved us. 1Jn.4:9 KJV

If God has to first make them want Him, He would have to do this to everyone, because it wouldn't be fair for Him to choose who will or won't be saved;

That's why the Son died for all sinners.

He is not a "respecter of persons (Luk 20:21; Act 10:34; Rom 2:11; Gal 2:6; Eph 6:9; Col 3:25; 1Pe 1:17). God knows all the "whosoever will." All that should be saved will be saved!

The fact that God is no respecter or persons means He gave all people ample reasons, opportunities and abilities to repent, but they chose not to,

to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. Isa.66:2 KJV

How's this for audacity?

Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? Jn.19:10 KJV

Pilate didn't tremble at Gods' Word, but he will be when he stands befor Him in judgement.

 

[netchaplain]

This is a misstatement, right? You can't be saying that "it's entirely comforting to know all this" if your name is not in the Book?

Their name in the Book means that God, in His omniscience knew they would choose to want to be right with Him! Those He knows who will reject Him are not in the Book.