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Problems with the AV1611 - try studying for yourself

I don't Go to a christian book store.

Why not? It may open your eyes just to pick up a few bibles of different catagories and read through some of them.

You worship a translation of a book.
God is spirit.

No, you're wrong. I worship the God that gave man enough sense to translate his word properly, completely and without the corruption exposed in too many translations on the market today. I know who God is...met him long ago. I received the original letter from him (his bible) long ago, not after someone had critiqued it to death and gave me their intrepretation of it.
 
D46 said:
I don't Go to a christian book store.

Why not? It may open your eyes just to pick up a few bibles of different catagories and read through some of them.

[quote:7c44d]You worship a translation of a book.
God is spirit.

No, you're wrong. I worship the God that gave man enough sense to translate his word properly, completely and without the corruption exposed in too many translations on the market today. I know who God is...met him long ago. I received the original letter from him (his bible) long ago, not after someone had critiqued it to death and gave me their intrepretation of it.[/quote:7c44d]The original huh? So you read it in the original language only? Great, then you would be able to see that the KJV is far from a literal translation. You would also see that when Jesus taught in the Temple He would be using a translation of the original texts.

Thanks, I will stick with my Rotherham. Gotta love that accurate and literal rendering.
 
Free said:
Interesting that two OSAS advocates would agree that modern translations will lead to the apostasy, people leaving the faith.
Isn't it insteresting that yous till think apostacy is losing salvation - amazing! :o
 
D46 said:
I don't Go to a christian book store.

Why not? It may open your eyes just to pick up a few bibles of different catagories and read through some of them.

[quote:acdb3]You worship a translation of a book.
God is spirit.

No, you're wrong. I worship the God that gave man enough sense to translate his word properly, completely and without the corruption exposed in too many translations on the market today. I know who God is...met him long ago. I received the original letter from him (his bible) long ago, not after someone had critiqued it to death and gave me their intrepretation of it.[/quote:acdb3]

Quote:
I worship the God that gave man enough sense to translate his word properly

Did God give man enough sense to translate The hebrew word "ra" as "sore"
but in most cases the word is "Evil." 442 times

Ecc 1:13
And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.

How about all these different renderings of the word "Evil"
evil 442, wickedness 59, wicked 25, mischief 21, hurt 20, bad 13, trouble 10, sore 9, affliction 6, ill 5, adversity 4, favoured 3, harm 3, naught 3, noisome 2, grievous 2, sad 2, miscellaneous 34

Most people would never known what this verse indicates Ecc 1:13.

But If the translators had translated the true meaning of the verse that would probally upset most people in church.

And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven:this sore (evil) travail (affair) hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised (humbled) therewith.

Is this translated properly? You bet it is but apparantly your translators saw fit not to translate it properly. I guess God inspired them to lie.

To you all other translations are "corrupt" not one is right in your eyes.
you think in your pride that you have the incorruptable, infallable, complete, unadultarated word of God (KJV 1611).

That is why it has become to you in your mind a graven image, and that God has commanded you not to worship.
But you do worship it! You can't see that you do just as the pharisees did!

From Youngs literal translation:
39`Ye search the Writings, because ye think in them to have life age-during, and these are they that are testifying concerning me;

I like your comment "I met God a long time ago" "I received the original letter (His Bible) from Him"

The "Bible" as you say say's also in John 6:44

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws (to drag) him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

But you and your tradition will not allow you to believe "Gods word" they will only allow you to believe in their interpretation of the "Bible" not Gods word
which is by the way spirit and life.

Any person that would not study "The Bible" to show himself approved unto God, Rightly dividing the word of truth, a workman that does not need to be ashamed is a fool and does not know which way he is going.

He has blind faith, knowing not what he worships
 
santamarana said:
Did God give man enough sense to translate The hebrew word "ra" as "sore" but in most cases the word is "Evil." 442 times
If I recall I asked you three questions earlier that you never answered.

1. Do you have a final authority? Please, a simple yes or no will do.

2. What is this final authority if you answered yes to #1?
(And please, refrain from saying God for we all know this and # 3 covers this.)

3. Can you put your hands on this final authority?
 
I am checking out of this topic. I don't even know why I posted in it as I find this topic to be a bit silly and the KJV only camp to be, well, nevermind.
Enjoy.
 
AVBunyan said:
santamarana said:
Did God give man enough sense to translate The hebrew word "ra" as "sore" but in most cases the word is "Evil." 442 times
If I recall I asked you three questions earlier that you never answered.

1. Do you have a final authority? Please, a simple yes or no will do.

2. What is this final authority if you answered yes to #1?
(And please, refrain from saying God for we all know this and # 3 covers this.)

3. Can you put your hands on this final authority?

I am sorry that I didn't answer.

And I will ask you

`By what authority dost thou do these things? and who gave thee this authority?'

But yes I do

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Your Authority comes from orthodoxy not God.

Just as the pharisees claimed that they got their authority from God
Jesus did not agree with them.

And so they crucified him for making himself equal with God.

Your question is just as the pharisees asked.
 
santamarana said:
I am sorry that I didn't answer.
One last time -

If I recall I asked you three questions earlier that you never answered.

1. Do you have a final authority? Please, a simple yes or no will do.

2. What is this final authority if you answered yes to #1?
(And please, refrain from saying God for we all know this and # 3 covers this.)

3. Can you put your hands on this final authority?
 
AVBunyan said:
santamarana said:
I am sorry that I didn't answer.
One last time -

If I recall I asked you three questions earlier that you never answered.

1. Do you have a final authority? Please, a simple yes or no will do.

2. What is this final authority if you answered yes to #1?
(And please, refrain from saying God for we all know this and # 3 covers this.)

3. Can you put your hands on this final authority?

I am sorry I had to leave for a bit.

I have given you the answer.

But I guess you do not understand my speech.

Yes.

It is foolish for you to even say that the authority in which you proclaim is the bible. The written letter.
Especially when Paul proclaims "The letter (Sacred books, scrolls, writings) Kills- It is the spirit that gives life. Jesus said the words (Not the written letter) that I speak to you are spirit and life.

The bible as you proclaim was not even written when this was stated!

The bible is a wonderful tool to be used in your life. But do not exalt it above this measure.

When you do it becomes an "Idol of your heart"

The bible as we know it came 400 years after Christ.

Do you understand that they don't tell you it lacks 14 entire books which were in the original King James of 1611. They don't tell you the King James Bible has been changed many times in the last 350 years and there have been thousands of corrections! They don't tell you the King James Bible was never authorized by anyone. They don't tell you the original KJV had a calendar of annual Holy days which all believers were to follow such as: Purification of the virgin Mary, annunciation of our Lady, Innocents day, etc.. They don't tell you the Greek text used by the King James translators produced by Erasmus, a Roman Catholic humanist monk, did not have manuscripts that contained all 27 books of the New Testament, so he borrowed out of the Latin Catholic Vulgate! No, they can't tell you these things because that would be the end of the lie which has kept them in business.


6who also made us sufficient [to be] ministrants of a new covenant, not of letter, but of spirit; for the letter doth kill, and the spirit doth make alive.
7and if the ministration of the death, in letters, engraved in stones, came in glory, so that the sons of Israel were not able to look stedfastly to the face of Moses, because of the glory of his face -- which was being made useless,
8how shall the ministration of the Spirit not be more in glory?

Does
"You have heard it said in ancient times, eye for eye, and tooth for tooth."

Go against
"but I -- I say to you, not to resist the evil, but whoever shall slap thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other;"

Christ was going against what the written letter commanded was He not?

Does"Love your enemy," agree with, "hate your enemy?" Christ is here, teaching against the 'law of Moses.' Does "Swear not at all," agree with Deu 10:20 - "Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God; him shalt thou serve, and to him shalt thou cleave, and swear by his name." Christ is here, again, teaching against the 'law of Moses.' Does Mat 5:38 - "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth" - agree with Mat 5:39 - "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." Christ is here, also, teaching against the 'law of Moses.'

Apparantly Christ was putting away "The commandments of the Law"

But unfortunantly you do not have eyes to see nor ears to hear.

Does Christ deny that He had broken the law? No, He affirms it. 'As David did, so I and my disciples are doing that which is unlawful.' Does He deny 'profaning the sabbath?' No, He actually points out that He too is doing exactly as "the priests in the temple ... on the sabbath day." And what then is the reason He gives for His blatant disregard for the 'law of Moses?' Here is the only reason He gives:

Eze 14:7 For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet [or the scripture] to enquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:

Eze 14:8 And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD. Eze 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

I am sorry but you are deceived.
 
santamarana said:
But I guess you do not understand my speech.

Yes.
So then, what is your final authority? Where do you go for absolute truth?

Let me show you how simple my question is.

My final authority is the King James Bible I hold in my hands.
 
AVBunyan said:
santamarana said:
But I guess you do not understand my speech.

Yes.
So then, what is your final authority? Where do you go for absolute truth?

Let me show you how simple my question is.

My final authority is the King James Bible I hold in my hands.

There is a big problem with what you just stated.

If you would be so kind and go and check out this information for yourself you would see that your precious idol of the heart is not what you claim it to be.

http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/K ... ersion.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/K ... rsion2.htm

The problem with you is that you probally won't go and read this information to see If these things are so because you are scared it might take away your security blanket that you call "The King James Bible"

Which is by the way a mixture of different documents that erasmus put together over time to form the textus receptus.


By the way If you are truly a hardcore, bible beating 1611 only advocate
(Which you are) I would suggest you really read these two articles.
And defend your claim that "The only way to get saved is by the KJV"

Here is a quote from the article.

What I have attempted to do in the foregoing is to demonstrate that there have been quite a number of editions of the Textus Receptus, compiled or adapted by a number of editors. There is no single edition of the Textus Receptus that agrees completely with any existing manuscript or text-type. In fact, it should be considered that the Textus Receptus is, in itself, a type of text. The Bible student should bear in mind that, when he encounters a reference to the Textus Receptus, it is important to know which particular edition is meant.

The translators of the King James Version used the Textus Receptus, but it isn't clear which edition they used. The quick answer is that they used the edition of either Stephanus or Bèza. One authority (F.H.A. Scrivener), who studied this issue in considerable detail, determined that it was neither. According to Scrivenor, the KJV is a mixed text, most closely related to Bèza, with Stephanus second. It seems likely that earlier English texts and even the Vulgate had some influence on the KJV text.

Why does it seem likely that earlier English texts and the Vulgate may have influenced KJV translators? The Bible, at least parts of the Bible, had been available in Britain as early as the 6th century, when Caedmon translated portions of the Vulgate into the vernacular. The first English translation of the Latin Vulgate was completed by John Wycliffe around 1382. The first complete English Bible to be translated from Hebrew and Greek manuscripts was the Tyndale Bible Tyndale was martyred in 1536.

The first complete Bible to be printed in English, the Myles Coverdale Bible, was published just before Tyndale's martyrdom. Coverdale's text was based on the Latin Vulgate, Tyndale and Martin Luther's German Translation. Coverdale was the first to separate the Apocrypha from the Old Testament and include it as an appendix. Coverdale's Bible was the first to include chapter summaries.

Isn't that nice!

Just one more thought.
I checked out your site and by your statement "All other versions are of the devil" pretty much shows your character, and heart about many things without even completly knowing you as an individual.

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

21For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
22The eye is the lamp of the body. So if your eye is sound, your entire body will be full of light.
23But if your eye is unsound, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the very light in you [your conscience] is darkened, how dense is that darkness!
 
santamarana said:
If you would be so kind and go and check out this information for yourself you would see that your precious idol of the heart is not what you claim it to be.
I refuse to seriously discuss the issue with you for you are not seeking truth but out to find fault with the book God has blessed.

Your accusation that I have made an idol out of the AV1611 has been used before and I count those who constantly make cheap use of this accusation as fools and blinded. This accusation is wicked and vile and you assume much with no proof as to what I worship.

Now - one more time with feeling -

You have nothing new to offer - I've heard all your "info" before - been hearing it now for over 22 years and it doesn't keep me awake enough to yawn.

You and the devil are in agreement on the issue of the King James Bible - you both are out to destory it's authority in the lives of the saints and you will give account for these attacks. I'd walk right past you looking for a serious student of on this issue

Save yourself some time - search out my posts here over the last 2 years and this will answer many of your vain and empty arguments. And of course I do not expect you to believe anything I've said regarding the issue of authority.

If I detected you were seriously seeking truth in this area then I'd spend all the time in the time in the world with you and have done so in the past with others but..as I said before I believe you are not seeking truth and therefore I've given you more time than I should have.

You have a nice evening now. :roll:g
 
AV,

Come back to my thread. I miss ya bud. :angel:

It would seem that for you to say we are not open to the truth, you must have the infallible truth and can explain it to us. So far the infallibility part seems to be lacking. :sad
 
AVBunyan said:
santamarana said:
If you would be so kind and go and check out this information for yourself you would see that your precious idol of the heart is not what you claim it to be.
I refuse to seriously discuss the issue with you for you are not seeking truth but out to find fault with the book God has blessed.

Your accusation that I have made an idol out of the AV1611 has been used before and I count those who constantly make cheap use of this accusation as fools and blinded. This accusation is wicked and vile and you assume much with no proof as to what I worship.

Now - one more time with feeling -

You have nothing new to offer - I've heard all your "info" before - been hearing it now for over 22 years and it doesn't keep me awake enough to yawn.

You and the devil are in agreement on the issue of the King James Bible - you both are out to destory it's authority in the lives of the saints and you will give account for these attacks. I'd walk right past you looking for a serious student of on this issue

Save yourself some time - search out my posts here over the last 2 years and this will answer many of your vain and empty arguments. And of course I do not expect you to believe anything I've said regarding the issue of authority.

If I detected you were seriously seeking truth in this area then I'd spend all the time in the time in the world with you and have done so in the past with others but..as I said before I believe you are not seeking truth and therefore I've given you more time than I should have.

You have a nice evening now. :roll:g
That was a nice dodge job. Sling mud instead of checking out the links.

Funny.
 
Lyric's Dad said:
That was a nice dodge job. Sling mud instead of checking out the links. Funny.
Look Lyric - I've been involved with these discussions on at least 7 different forums for the past three years or so and nobody could accuse me of dodging nothing. But there comes a time when I see no profit in it. This, in my opinion, is one of those. It is my opinion that santamarana just wanted to find fault with the AV1611 and I just don't care to carry on.

So accuse me of whatever - And yes, I've done some mud slinging here but there have been many a time here and other forums where I've been so polite and courteous it even made me sick even when I was being trashed. :o But there I detected a seeking of truth - here I didn't see it.

Also, it is ok for santamarana to accuse mem of idolatry and not a peep from you but when I strike back then I'm the mud slinger :-?
 
AVBunyan said:
Lyric's Dad said:
That was a nice dodge job. Sling mud instead of checking out the links. Funny.
Look Lyric - I've been involved with these discussions on at least 7 different forums for the past three years or so and nobody could accuse me of dodging nothing. But there comes a time when I see no profit in it. This, in my opinion, is one of those. It is my opinion that santamarana just wanted to find fault with the AV1611 and I just don't care to carry on.

So accuse me of whatever - And yes, I've done some mud slinging here but there have been many a time here and other forums where I've been so polite and courteous it even made me sick even when I was being trashed. :o But there I detected a seeking of truth - here I didn't see it.

Also, it is ok for santamarana to accuse mem of idolatry and not a peep from you but when I strike back then I'm the mud slinger :-?

Then why are you hear making comments and putting people down. You've done your swan song but can't seem to help coming back and putting people down, being superior about your opinions and making bravado posts like the "i answered my own question one" where all the Catholics of course were dodging your question. Seems you did a pretty good dodge to a direct yes or no question this afternoon and left alot of scripture unanswered. I've been doing this for 7 years and probably fifteen message boards. Funny thing is I've never seen a fundie like you convert a Catholic on a message board. I've seen it go the other way around, strong Protestants become Catholic. Yes, away from other Catholics you guys get your converts with your straw men and distortions. But not where the Catholic Church gets explained by other Catholics so that the weak sheep are strengthened. Your darkness will only make the light easy to see.

Blessings
 
Thessalonians said:
1. Then why are you here making comments and putting people down?

2. You've done your swan song but can't seem to help coming back and putting people down, being superior about your opinions and…

3. making bravado posts like the "i answered my own question one" where all the Catholics of course were dodging your question.

4. Seems you did a pretty good dodge to a direct yes or no question this afternoon and left alot of scripture unanswered.

5. I've been doing this for 7 years and probably fifteen message boards.

6. Funny thing is I've never seen a fundie like you convert a Catholic on a message board.

7. I've seen it go the other way around, strong Protestants become Catholic.

8. Yes, away from other Catholics you guys get your converts with your straw men and distortions.

9. But not where the Catholic Church gets explained by other Catholics so that the weak sheep are strengthened.

10.Your darkness will only make the light easy to see.

1. I could ask you the same question. But in answer to your question – folks like you provide much material to work with. I just take you standard, Catholic, blinded reasoning and air it out of others to see. Sometimes in my twisted way it is good to expose your teachings – which represent all that is dangerous when it comes to false justification – and justification is the peg God hung me on when it comes to these forums..

2. Last I heard this was a free country at least until Rome gets in control and then I guess folks like me will be gone overnight. Yes, some of us are familiar with church history and Foxe’s Book of Martyrs. When Rome rules darkness prevails and liberty goes out the window – not so much now with CNN and mass communication – Rome has to kind of “blend in†and be real careful for now. My opinions are nothing but the book I get them from – the AV1611 is superior – church history has proven that. Wherever the AV1611 has gone there has been revivals and liberty – wherever the Roman bibles have gone the lights have gone out – church history has proven this. Are you going to prove me wrong here, Thess? You just go ahead and try.

3. I answered the question knowing fully well that the Armenians probably would not or could not give a clear presentation of what took place at Calvary and my two threads proved it. You have yet to post a scriptural plan of salvation – yours is just do good by the grace of God along with all that works stuff while sprinkling in a bit of “grace†to fool the suckers.

4. I try not to dodge – ignore, yes, but dodge, no. You have certainly “dodged†or chosen not to answer or respond to some of mine and I haven’t lost sleep over it. You remind me of a kid that got jipped out of a sucker.

5. I’m happy for you – sorry for those who have been polluted by your doctrine. But, then again, God sees all. :wink:

6. Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it hasn’t taken place.

7. You mean you saw some lost Protestants stay lost by becoming a Catholic. Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. :o

Great work Thess – those lost Protestants had no assurance where they were and were in a darkened state and then they come to your side and still have no assurance of eternal life – just more works they have to do! How sad.

8. If a Catholic got saved it was because someone gave them the word of God and the pure gospel and God opened up their eyes and then regenerated them. After their eyes were enlightened they left your religion. That’s what happened in the middle ages. The blinders were finally taken off - Psa 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

9. That is to much – most Catholics have no idea what your religion really is – it is Babylonian Mystery Religion at it’s best. Strengthened? Strengthened??!!! How about brainwashed – darkened even more? If a Catholic were to take your council of Trent statements and lay them along side of a real Bible and real Church History in an effort to seek truth then they would be appalled! :o

10. Our “darkness� Really – real church history (Not Catholic re-written history) bears witness that everywhere the true scriptures went the lights came on and Rome had a fit. Just compare the nations ruled by Rome as compared to those who “used†to be influenced by the scriptures. Would you rather live in the Philippines, Brazil, Africa, Central America or England, America, Germany, Scotland, etc.? Though these nations have now rejected the book but at one time they had the book and that was when they were great. I’ve seen the fruits of Rome – the people remain in darkness and liberty is almost non-existent when it comes to true spiritual liberty.

This was supposed to be about the AV1611 – looks like I got off the topic here – well not really – see #2.

Blessings to you also Thess
 
I'm not sure which version (or edition) of the King James this is, and I don't own a 1611. However, I do have this one issue with this version of the Bible:

Mark 11:22, "And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God."

The problem that I have here is that the literal translation of this verse is, "...Have the faith of God". Telling people to have faith in God indicates that faith is something we muster up ourselves. But having God's faith is something that we receive as a gift. This second version is, IMHO, more in keeping with God's nature, Jehovah-Jireh (Genesis 22:14).

There are more examples that I could post, but since I'm not sure what the 1611 says, maybe we can just use this verse for now.
 
kwag_myers said:
I'm not sure which version (or edition) of the King James this is, and I don't own a 1611. However, I do have this one issue with this version of the Bible:

There are more examples that I could post, but since I'm not sure what the 1611 says, maybe we can just use this verse for now.
Different publishers take liberties in their publishing. I have found Cambridge to be pretty good. Example - some publishers change Jesus to Joshua in Acts 7 - too bad - they are wrong.

As far as being "literal" - I guess it boils down to final authority - mine is the King James Bible I have in my hands or one like it - not any Greek or Hebrew text. for once you go to any Greek or Hebrew ot change a word or correct the text then that becomes your final authority. And since there are mutlitple Greek and Hebrew texts and they all read differently then you are face with mutiple final authorities! :o

If a verse or word was messed with and I don't catch it or know about then too bad - then I just go by faith and move on.

God bless
 
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