Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[jeremiah1five]

Do you have any idea of how FEW people in the churches are doing da blue?
Conversely, do you have any idea how MANY people in the churches are sinning habitually?

There is a reason for that.
Well, several.

 

[jeremiah1five]

obedience takes lots of discipline lots of learning to walk in the spirit sometime we keep the wrong treasure =flesh

When I was being discipled I lived with my teacher. There were several of us brothers under his roof. In order to help pay our keep we had car washes on Saturday. It was a very simple thing really, but the brothers would at times say to each other to "keep your eyes on God." I was about ten years into Christianity. 1986.
While washing the car a brother had the hose to rinse and he accidentally sprayed me and in a hot second he saw I was about to get in the flesh when he said, "keep your eyes on God, brother."
The Holy Spirit chose that time to manifest Himself where I felt Him and then I understood to keep my eyes on God.
From that day forward is when I learned obedience.
No one knew what just happen to me as I remained cool after the spray and didn't say a thing.
From that day forward also, my obedience was tested and my obedience to my teacher, to God, to man became surer and grounded.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Well, this is true, but I think it's not as cut and dried as that, as if we have license to sin because we don't. But! His love covers a multitude of sins, and He knows that we are not perfected yet and will stumble. Tjhere's a couple thigs to consider here. Did we stumble on accident, or did we turn our back on the Lord and go our own way to fulfill our own desires and lusts of the flesh?

King David stumbled quite a bit, but he got back up and asked forgiveness and turned back to God in repentance. So He was forgiven. But there were some who...chose to turn away from the Lord altogether and go their own way. These will not be in heaven, unless they repent and stop living for the flesh. Repenting is not doing it anymore. How do we stop sinning?

By walking in the Spirit. We do not sin while walking in the Spirit. So it behooves us to stay in the presence of the Lord. Seeking first His presence and not our own desires. That is dying to the flesh.

I think there is some who, try to live righteous and not sin and to walk in love towards their brethern, but they may not press in to the Lord as they should. This is sort of a greay area, and I've been thinking about this for awhile now.

Will those people who don't turn their back on the Lord, but don't press in as they should, go to heaven? Yes I think they will, but will they be on equal footing in heaven like with (spiritual giants) who live an entire life for the Lord constantly pressing in? No. Scripture is clear, there is rank in heaven.

So what is our scriptural clue about this?
I *think* it may have to do with...the structure of the Lord's temple. There is, the outer court and the inner court, and the Holy of Holies, right? And yet, now we know, that we, are the Lords Temple. So is one content to become saved and reside in the outer court? Can one press in, and be promoted to be allowed into the inner court? The Holy of Holies?
I think so. I think there may be something to this line of thought, but I have not finished meditating and thinking about it yet to know for sure. What do you all think?

We are placed in the Body of Christ in accordance with the will of God and His good pleasure.
If a believer who is saved backslides back to his or her old life it is because God wills it. God is raising His kids and like He used Lucifer's sin to bring about His plan for man - and for Lucifer, a child of God is under the direct authority of God and God has much at His disposal to teach His children what it is He wants them to learn. We are not all cookie-cutter Christians. We all do not have the same calling, the same place in the Body, the same temperament, the same personality, the same spiritual gifts, the same pound (natural gift/skill), the same faith (some have more some have less - again in accordance with the will of God and based on our knowledge.)
Kingdom Principle.

 

[jeremiah1five]

on the lose of salvation we can use scriptures for the can and can not ..but in the end were not the judge or have the finial say.. when my times comes i had rather be striving than not i also realize there are lots who have GONE ASTRAY . THAT IS IN A BACKSLIDE
CONDITION .. but as peter wrote our salvation inheritance is kept by the power of God.. i do have the responsibility to do the walk not just the talk

Ephesians 2:10 (KJV)
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We will all be what and who God wants us to be.
The Holy Spirit will make sure of that.
Once a son, ALWAYS a son.
There are no human sons of God in "hell."

 

[ezra]

Ephesians 2:10 (KJV)
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We will all be what and who God wants us to be.
The Holy Spirit will make sure of that.
Once a son, ALWAYS a son.
There are no human sons of God in "hell."

there is no one who has studied this out and stays studying ..i dont teach/ preach either doctrine the bible says walk as he walked walk in the light walk in the spirit ..( i hate to tell you this..but the Bible does NOT say osas or osnas .it does say we can be secure in him kept by the power of God )

 

[FreeGrace]

Please comment on why 2 Peter 1:9 (in the OP) is in error.

The born-again believer has been blessed with 3 things
that help him/her overcome sin, the world, and the devil:
1) the indwelling Holy Spirit
2) a new nature (a new creation)
3) the word of God
Having these, he/she has no excuse for not satisfy the Father.

I realize that I am repeating myself, but I have found that
many do not fully read and understand what my OPs are saying.

2 Peter 1:9 isn't in error. It's simply a statement about the blind and short-sighted believer who has forgotten that he has been "cleansed" of his past sins. How are believers cleansed/purified from their on-going sins? Confession of those sins, per 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

What is the purpose of this confession? Clearly not for salvation. We are saved by grace through faith (Eph 2:8).

We know from Scripture that Jesus Christ died for every sin of every person in history from Hebrews.

Heb 7:27, 9:12, 26, 28, 10:2, 10, 12, 14 all mention that Christ's sacrifice was "once for all". Not "once for some", which seems to be your point.

Heb 10:14 - For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

How can "once sacrifice" make anyone "perfect forever" if the sacrifice wasn't for all sins?

That's the question.

 

[jeremiah1five]

there is no one who has studied this out and stays studying ..i dont teach/ preach either doctrine the bible says walk as he walked walk in the light walk in the spirit ..( i hate to tell you this..but the Bible does NOT say osas or osnas .it does say we can be secure in him kept by the power of God )

ezra, let me give you something that is precious.
It's a treasure. The most valuable treasure in the universe.
And since love comes with a profit I'm going to let you keep the proceeds and the change.
Are you ready?

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Whether you know this or not, but every aspect of a Christians life is guided first and foremost by doctrine.
We eat, sleep, walk, skip-a-rope, speak, sleep, argue, fight, marry, have children, etc., under instruction and command of God who gives us His Word so that we may have right relationships, so that we may know who to marry, where to go and what to say and do in our lives. If you don't have doctrine in your life you have nothing.

So, learn the Scriptures so that you may be complete, throughly furnished unto all good works everywhere you go.

 

[stovebolts]

There is only one sin Jesus Christ died on the cross for, not many.

It's the sin by which Christ will be imputed from us, God's Elect people:

The sin of a sin-ful nature in man. But the lamb slain before God created man was only to allow a Righteous God create an unrighteous being. It works like a self-atonement for lack of a better word.

Just because God hasn't opened your mind to what I have said does not make me wrong. I plant and water. That's all.
I can't apologize for being so declarative, that's just who I am. And I don't mind at times discussing the Scripture, but doesn't there come a point in which the discussion halts and obedience begins? (not that I expect anything from you except to consider and wait. If it is true God will bring someone to water it. If not, then it really wasn't meant for you. What you did was draw it out. Don't you love it when God uses you?
So, what's next on the agenda?
Ah, I know....

Would it have helped you if I had said, "Paul speaks of two ways sin reveals itself. One is unwillful ignorance and the other is willful ignorance. Both carry consequence, although both are handled differently."

I find it not so odd that you view my mind as closed and in need of seeds being planted when really, you know little to nothing on what I actually believe. Is it a wonder you seize my post to another to springboard a pet doctrine you seem to enjoy discussing?

Alright, let's discuss Election, but please know this. In many cases, the best you'll be able to do is qualify many of your statements with, "I believe" knowing that others may understand things differently, and for a variety of reasons to long to list. Asserting your view over another will create more descent and generally isnt tolerated for very long. Please read our community message if you need some idea the direction we are taking this forum.

When I speak of sin parsed into two main catagories, i am relating them to crowns and reward. Both which we will lay back at the feet of our Lord and Savior.

James 1:13-16 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
13 Let no one say, being tempted -- `From God I am tempted,' for God is not tempted of evil, and Himself doth tempt no one,

14 and each one is tempted, by his own desires being led away and enticed,

15 afterward the desire having conceived, doth give birth to sin, and the sin having been perfected, doth bring forth death.

16 Be not led astray, my brethren beloved;

When I read these verses, one of many things it tells me is that sin can mature in a persons life, and when it matures, it brings about death. I believe Paul puts it this way,

1 Timothy 4:1-2 New International Version (NIV)
4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

When we look at 1 Timothy 1, Paul admits his sin as being done in ignorance. When Paul murdered Steven, he believed he was defending God. With his heart, Paul believed he was doing Gods will.

Paul had a decision to make after his encounter with our Lord and his ignorance was revealed. Paul could have seared his concience and continued up the proverbial ladder with his own interest in mind. However, that's not what he did. Where Paul once persecuted Christian's, he then showed signs of repentance by edifying them. But not only that, Paul brought many to Christ.

We could play a lot of what if's with Paul, but we understand what Paul did and we understand his heart was convicted when he realized his sin. It wasnt so much who Saul was, but rather, who Saul became. None of us can use the excuse, "well, that's just who I am." God expects so much more from us. Question is, do we believe it, and have enough faith to allow Gods Holy Spirit to transform our life?

Without a doubt, Paul is Gods elect. And we know Gods elect because the world knows us in this way.

John 13:35.
English Standard Version
By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

This is not to say we will agree with each other on all matters, but it does mean that unity is not uniformity because the way we speak to each other can actually speak louder than what we actually said.

 

[Senior]

Well, considering it's been in my garage more than on the road, I'm beginning to wonder lol.

View attachment 6537

Gee, dat's the funniest lookin' stove I've ever seen!
I just gotta get out more!

 

[Senior]

Ephesians 2:10 (KJV)
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We will all be what and who God wants us to be.
The Holy Spirit will make sure of that.
Once a son, ALWAYS a son.
There are no human sons of God in "hell."

You completely disregard the free will that God gave to us?
Just for one ...
What do you think all of the many dozens of warnings in the NT are for?

 

[stovebolts]

Gee, dat's the funniest lookin' stove I've ever seen!
I just gotta get out more!

As a senior, I take it your not much into cars lol. My Dad gave my car that nickname many, many moons ago. It holds a dual meaning. Dad was born and raised in the mountains of northern Idaho in a single room log cabin. Heat came by way of a good stove and when it came to burning wood, you were burning pine.

A good stove used quality bolts. Bad bolts and the stove fell apart. Bolts were foundational for a stove. That was common knowledge for them.

Chevy came out with a 6 cylendar for their trucks that was indestructible and earned the nickname stovebolts due to its durability as it lined its marketing with the idea of what made a good stove.

When my Dad nicknamed my car, it was ugly and needed a lot of work. He doesnt like GM, never has so the nickname was both a complement and a insult lol.

 

[Senior]

As a senior, I take it your not much into cars lol.

Well, that lol saved the day!
I had 2 Lotus Elan convertibles.
1200 lbs ... spun out on everything imaginable!
Road & Track magazine said it was the fastest car
between Points A and B through the mountains.
Later, I had 2 Caddy el Dorado convertibles ... 500 hp.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You completely disregard the free will that God gave to us?
Just for one ...
What do you think all of the many dozens of warnings in the NT are for?

Senior, free will in man is an illusion. There is no free will.
If, as Paul said, we are a servant to sin then everything about us is in this bondage - especially our will. Plus the fact that we are in bondage to sin due to our sin nature, we have no free will. Not even God has free will. He has only one will: Good. And His will is dictated and restricted by His Deific Attribute and His Nature. God is not free to up and create a man. There are considerations. One of them is the question to His Righteousness. How can a Righteous God create an unrighteous being? And yes, the creation of man would be an unrighteous being for there is ONLY ONE God, there is none like Him, and He gives His glory to none. One of His glory is that of being SINLESS. HOLY.
But there is an answer because as we know He did create an unrighteous being (Adam).
Do you know the answer?

 

[Truthfrees]

We are placed in the Body of Christ in accordance with the will of God and His good pleasure.
If a believer who is saved backslides back to his or her old life it is because God wills it. God is raising His kids and like He used Lucifer's sin to bring about His plan for man - and for Lucifer, a child of God is under the direct authority of God and God has much at His disposal to teach His children what it is He wants them to learn. We are not all cookie-cutter Christians. We all do not have the same calling, the same place in the Body, the same temperament, the same personality, the same spiritual gifts, the same pound (natural gift/skill), the same faith (some have more some have less - again in accordance with the will of God and based on our knowledge.)
Kingdom Principle.

would it be that or would it be that the person did not have someone there saying "keep your eyes on God my brother"?

the bible says bad company corrupts good morals - meaning that the lack of good company does have an effect on us

we all need each other - we all need good company that inspires us on the good path - having a close group that teaches and reminds us to keep our eyes on God is sooooo valuable - worth more than gold imo

 

[Senior]

Senior, free will in man is an illusion. There is no free will.

IMO, man has absolutely NO free will to choose to believe in Jesus and His gospel.
Man sees this as absolute foolishness. -- Also, man is an absolute slave to Satan.
He is not only a slave to sin, but he is also a slave to Satan.
God must intervene and give him the necessary faith to enable him to believe.

However, after receiving the Holy Spirit and being made into a new creation,
he is NO longer a slave to sin, and he is NO longer a slave to Satan.
This is why the Word came and became flesh (Jesus).
He came to set the Father's chosen elect FREE .... to NOT have to sin!

But, he is also FREE to exercise his God-given free will.
He can choose to co-operate with God in the new covenant.
Or, he can choose to fall away from the faith, fall from grace, draw back to perdition, etc.

Please consider this scenario carefully!

 

[jeremiah1five]

would it be that or would it be that the person did not have someone there saying "keep your eyes on God my brother"?

the bible says bad company corrupts good morals - meaning that the lack of good company does have an effect on us

we all need each other - we all need good company that inspires us on the good path - having a close group that teaches and reminds us to keep our eyes on God is sooooo valuable - worth more than gold imo

...and what a precious opinion it is.
Brother sharpens the countenance of his brother as sword sharpens sword. But sometimes because the other person comes into our fellowship, goes forward in answer to an 'altar-call, is told to recite Romands 10:9-10, and wah-la! Instant Christian. But this person is not Christian. The Holy Spirit does not dwell in this person. And then Christians fall over themselves (not having Biblical doctrine in their soul) and call the person "brother" or "sister," thus joining Christ to a harlot/whore.

I learned. Before I call anyone who professes Christ "my brother," I first make sure we have the same Father (Jn. 8:44).

 

[jeremiah1five]

IMO, man has absolutely NO free will to choose to believe in Jesus and His gospel.
Man sees this as absolute foolishness. -- Also, man is an absolute slave to Satan.
He is not only a slave to sin, but he is also a slave to Satan.
God must intervene and give him the necessary faith to enable him to believe.

However, after receiving the Holy Spirit and being made into a new creation,
he is NO longer a slave to sin, and he is NO longer a slave to Satan.
This is why the Word came and became flesh (Jesus).
He came to set the Father's chosen elect FREE .... to NOT have to sin!

But, he is also FREE to exercise his God-given free will.
He can choose to co-operate with God in the new covenant.
Or, he can choose to fall away from the faith, fall from grace, draw back to perdition, etc.

Please consider this scenario carefully!

 

[GodsGrace]

At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness,
and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call
and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble;
for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting
kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)
“OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

“having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
“FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

“forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
“PAST sins” is also in the HCSB

Now for some confirming NT passages …

Paul wrote this to the Corinthian church concerning his words of rebuke
in 1 Corinthians that he had sent to them concerning some particular sin(s).
They really needed to be sorrowful and repent.

“… the pain (from his rebuke) caused you to repent and change your ways.
It was the kind of sorrow God wants His people to have, so you were not
harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience
leads us away from sin and results in salvation. … worldly sorrow, which lacks
repentance, results in spiritual (eternal) death.” (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)

“Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence.
And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins.
You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality,
and eagerness for lustful pleasure.” (2 Corinthians 12:21, NLT)

Peter is warning believers about God’s destruction of all ungodly and unholy people:
“Then he used the water to destroy the ancient (ungodly) world … the day of judgment,
when ungodly people will be destroyed. … He is being patient for your sake. He does not
want anyone to be destroyed (perish spiritually), but (he) wants everyone to repent.
… what holy and godly lives you should live … (you) make every effort to be found living
peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight. … I am warning you ahead of time
… Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors …” (2 Peter 3:6-17, NLT)

John gives the condition for the Lord to forgive believers’ present sins:
“But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9, NLT)
“This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all
unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them
… We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance
… we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.”
(The Applied New Testament Commentary; Dr. Thomas Hale)

2 verses later, John reminds believers to ask Jesus to plead our case before the Father:
“My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before
the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.” (1 John 2:1, NLT)

Believers are responsible for repenting of their sins after they are born-again!
They have been given the Holy Spirit, a totally new nature, and God’s word.
So, they have been enabled to be victorious overcomers over sin, the world,
and the devil. They have no excuse for failing to do this.

Hi Senior and welcome.
You did a great study on this...I never have.
However, I know from studying some theology that what you say is correct.

At the time of being born again (some will say at baptism) we are forgiven all our past sins and begin with a clean slate.

This is why there is forgiveness available for us...for future sins which undoubtedly will be committed.

John shows that Jesus made provision for this in 1 John 2:1

I'm sure this has been brought up...

 

[GodsGrace]

IMO, man has absolutely NO free will to choose to believe in Jesus and His gospel.
Man sees this as absolute foolishness. -- Also, man is an absolute slave to Satan.
He is not only a slave to sin, but he is also a slave to Satan.
God must intervene and give him the necessary faith to enable him to believe.

However, after receiving the Holy Spirit and being made into a new creation,
he is NO longer a slave to sin, and he is NO longer a slave to Satan.
This is why the Word came and became flesh (Jesus).
He came to set the Father's chosen elect FREE .... to NOT have to sin!

But, he is also FREE to exercise his God-given free will.
He can choose to co-operate with God in the new covenant.
Or, he can choose to fall away from the faith, fall from grace, draw back to perdition, etc.

Please consider this scenario carefully!

 

[GodsGrace]

Senior, free will in man is an illusion. There is no free will.
If, as Paul said, we are a servant to sin then everything about us is in this bondage - especially our will. Plus the fact that we are in bondage to sin due to our sin nature, we have no free will. Not even God has free will. He has only one will: Good. And His will is dictated and restricted by His Deific Attribute and His Nature. God is not free to up and create a man. There are considerations. One of them is the question to His Righteousness. How can a Righteous God create an unrighteous being? And yes, the creation of man would be an unrighteous being for there is ONLY ONE God, there is none like Him, and He gives His glory to none. One of His glory is that of being SINLESS. HOLY.
But there is an answer because as we know He did create an unrighteous being (Adam).
Do you know the answer?

How about answering my post on free will?
In the thread Belief and Faith...
Would be nice.