Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[for_his_glory]

Do you have any idea of how FEW people in the churches are doing da blue?
Conversely, do you have any idea how MANY people in the churches are sinning habitually?

Not sure what you mean by da blue?

Of course there are many that go to church and only give lip service to the Lord seemingly good people on the outside in their Sunday best, but void of God on the inside for they know Him not.

Again: None who are Spiritually born again walking in obedience to God's commands and stature
can ever have their names blotted out of the Lamb's book of life written before the foundation of the world.

 

[ezra]

ezra, let me give you something that is precious.
It's a treasure. The most valuable treasure in the universe.
And since love comes with a profit I'm going to let you keep the proceeds and the change.
Are you ready?

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Whether you know this or not, but every aspect of a Christians life is guided first and foremost by doctrine.
We eat, sleep, walk, skip-a-rope, speak, sleep, argue, fight, marry, have children, etc., under instruction and command of God who gives us His Word so that we may have right relationships, so that we may know who to marry, where to go and what to say and do in our lives. If you don't have doctrine in your life you have nothing.

So, learn the Scriptures so that you may be complete, throughly furnished unto all good works everywhere you go.

do you know all the scriptures ? i dont claim to know all --i know them fairly well to back up what i am saying .. BTW still awaiting the what you call precious from you ..

 

[jeremiah1five]

How about answering my post on free will?
In the thread Belief and Faith...
Would be nice.

Hi wondering.
Let me take a read of that right now before I do anything else.

 

[for_his_glory]

FREEWILL
By Joe R. Price
joe@bibleanswer.com

I was given permission from him to share this with others.

The Bible reveals that regarding free-will and predestination it is not one or the other, but rather both. That is, the Bible teaches both the free-will of man and God's election or predestination. Unfortunately the teachings and creeds of men have misdefined these Biblical concepts so that the impression is left that one cannot have both, but only one or the other. We must accept the whole counsel of God on this subject instead of the wisdom of men (Gal. 1:6-10; 1 Cor. 1:18-21).

Many people teach that man either has no free-will (fatalism) or limited amounts of it. The Bible teaches that every person with a moral capacity has the freedom of will to decide whether or not to obey God. Simply put, the Bible teaches that God elected (predestined or set in place) to save every soul who fears (respects) God and works righteousness, (Acts 10:34-35). That is, before time eternal, God predestined that men would be saved "in Christ" (Eph. 1:3-4, 7-12). God predestined the "plan" of human redemption (cf. Eph. 3:10-11).

God also determined that man would have free-will, the ability and responsibility to choose to obey Him (cf. Gen. 3:1-6; Josh. 24:15; Matt. 11:28). God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

 

[jeremiah1five]

FREEWILL
By Joe R. Price
joe@bibleanswer.com

I was given permission from him to share this with others.

The Bible reveals that regarding free-will and predestination it is not one or the other, but rather both. That is, the Bible teaches both the free-will of man and God's election or predestination. Unfortunately the teachings and creeds of men have misdefined these Biblical concepts so that the impression is left that one cannot have both, but only one or the other. We must accept the whole counsel of God on this subject instead of the wisdom of men (Gal. 1:6-10; 1 Cor. 1:18-21).

Many people teach that man either has no free-will (fatalism) or limited amounts of it. The Bible teaches that every person with a moral capacity has the freedom of will to decide whether or not to obey God. Simply put, the Bible teaches that God elected (predestined or set in place) to save every soul who fears (respects) God and works righteousness, (Acts 10:34-35). That is, before time eternal, God predestined that men would be saved "in Christ" (Eph. 1:3-4, 7-12). God predestined the "plan" of human redemption (cf. Eph. 3:10-11).

God also determined that man would have free-will, the ability and responsibility to choose to obey Him (cf. Gen. 3:1-6; Josh. 24:15; Matt. 11:28). God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

This person holds to Arminian theology.

Arminian belief was rejected as heresy in the 4th century.

 

[jeremiah1five]

This person holds to Arminian theology.

Arminian belief was rejected as heresy in the 4th century.

IF we were forgiven ONLY of our past sins, then the atonement provided by God through Christ and His cross at Calvary means that there are sins in the born of God Christian's life that haven't yet been forgiven, then as it was BEFORE the cross in which the Holy Spirit could only overshadow "prophets, priests, and kings" instead of dwell within them and us. However, the Presence of the Holy Spirit dwelling within us proves that ALL our sins - past, present, and future HAS been atoned and forgiven by God through Christ and His cross.

 

[FreeGrace]

IMO, man has absolutely NO free will to choose to believe in Jesus and His gospel.

Opinions aside, where does Scripture say this?

Man sees this as absolute foolishness. -- Also, man is an absolute slave to Satan.

How do you explain the morality seen in unbelievers then?

He is not only a slave to sin, but he is also a slave to Satan.

Why are unbelievers able to be moral?

God must intervene and give him the necessary faith to enable him to believe.

Where does the Bible say that "necessary faith enables one to believe"?

However, after receiving the Holy Spirit and being made into a new creation,
he is NO longer a slave to sin, and he is NO longer a slave to Satan.

Not true, actually. Romans 6 contains a lot of choices that believers face.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.
13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.
16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

These verses indicate choices we make. v.12, 13 and 16 clearly indicate the believer can choose to be a slave to sin.

This is why the Word came and became flesh (Jesus).
He came to set the Father's chosen elect FREE .... to NOT have to sin!

The Bible is clear that Jesus Christ died for everyone.
2 Cor 5-
14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

2 Tim 2-
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Heb 2:9 - But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2 John 2:2 - He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Now, please don't erroneously assume that I am Arminian. I am neither Calvinist nor Arminian. I believe what the Bible says.

But, he is also FREE to exercise his God-given free will.
He can choose to co-operate with God in the new covenant.
Or, he can choose to fall away from the faith, fall from grace, draw back to perdition, etc.

After all the Calvinistic phraseology, is this a statement about losing salvation??

 

[for_his_glory]

But the lamb slain before God created man was only to allow a Righteous God create an unrighteous being. It works like a self-atonement for lack of a better word.

Jesus was not slained before the foundation of the world. Jesus is the life of God come in the flesh of man. Jesus is our redeemer Savior according to God's plan before the foundation of the world. He alone has made atonement for all sin as there is no such thing as self-atonement even though the Scientology cult teaches self-atonement. John 3:16 that whosoever will believe in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Beliving in him is different than believing on Him. We have two choices to either hear and accept God's calling us to turn back to Him or we can reject that calling as we enjoy the things of the flesh that will only bring damnation to us, Romans 8:5-9.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jesus was not slained before the foundation of the world. Jesus is the life of God come in the flesh of man. Jesus is our redeemer Savior according to God's plan before the foundation of the world. He alone has made atonement for all sin as there is no such thing as self-atonement even though the Scientology cult teaches self-atonement. John 3:16 that whosoever will believe in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Beliving in him is different than believing on Him. We have two choices to either hear and accept God's calling us to turn back to Him or we can reject that calling as we enjoy the things of the flesh that will only bring damnation to us, Romans 8:5-9.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

I didn't say Jesus.

 

[ezra]

IF we were forgiven ONLY of our past sins, then the atonement provided by God through Christ and His cross at Calvary means that there are sins in the born of God Christian's life that haven't yet been forgiven, then as it was BEFORE the cross in which the Holy Spirit could only overshadow "prophets, priests, and kings" instead of dwell within them and us. However, the Presence of the Holy Spirit dwelling within us proves that ALL our sins - past, present, and future HAS been atoned and forgiven by God through Christ and His cross.

yes but we have 1 john 1:7 & 9

 

[for_his_glory]

This person holds to Arminian theology.

Arminian belief was rejected as heresy in the 4th century.

Evangelist Joe R. Price has nothing to to with Arminim theology. He is a part of Mt. Baker Church of Christ in Bellingham, WA. You can look him up, but don't confuse him with Joseph Price the TV Evangelist.

[edited]

 

[Senior]

"However, after receiving the Holy Spirit and being made into a new creation,
he is NO longer a slave to sin, and he is NO longer a slave to Satan."

Not true, actually. Romans 6 contains a lot of choices that believers face.

You miss the point altogether.

"No longer" means he is FREE from those problems/bondages!
He can (and may) return to them, however, if he so chooses!

 

[billybalke]

You miss the point altogether.

"No longer" means he is FREE from those problems/bondages!
He can (and may) return to them, however, if he so chooses!

Right!

 

[for_his_glory]

IF we were forgiven ONLY of our past sins, then the atonement provided by God through Christ and His cross at Calvary means that there are sins in the born of God Christian's life that haven't yet been forgiven, then as it was BEFORE the cross in which the Holy Spirit could only overshadow "prophets, priests, and kings" instead of dwell within them and us. However, the Presence of the Holy Spirit dwelling within us proves that ALL our sins - past, present, and future HAS been atoned and forgiven by God through Christ and His cross.

Yes, they have been atoned for already, but yet we still need to ask forgiveness when we sin as all have sinned and fall short of His glory

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(Says nothing about present or future sin, but only our past sin)

Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
(If we can't even as a child of God forgive others God will not forgive our present or future sin. Our past sin has already been forgiven and forgotten in the eyes of God when we first repented of them when we accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior.)

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

We do sin willfully at times even after receiving the knowledge of truth if we are honest with our self because we are still housed in this fleshly body, but yet no excuse to sin. Have you ever been angry with someone and even in your mind spoke harsh words against them, then you have sinned. It's easy to sin and not even realize it at the moment as our emotions get the best of us at times, but the Holy Spirit is quick to convict us when we do sin and need to repent and ask forgiveness.

The sacrifice has already been made by Jesus, but yet we need to ask forgiveness for our present and when we sin in the future as we will. God knows we are not perfect in this fleshly body as we are only made righteous by His righteousness as God sees our righteousness as a filthy rag, Isaiah 64:6.

 

[for_his_glory]

I didn't say Jesus.

You said in post #58: But the lamb slain before God created man was only to allow a Righteous God create an unrighteous being.

There is only one lamb that God had future plans for even before He created man and that would be Jesus. God did not create an unrighteous being as Adam had no sin found in him when God created him and gave him dominion of all God created. Adams fall came after God created Eve and set them both in the garden and gave instruction not to eat of the tree of knowledge.

 

[for_his_glory]

You miss the point altogether.

"No longer" means he is FREE from those problems/bondages!
He can (and may) return to them, however, if he so chooses!

And I have seen many that have

 

[Senior]

Sorry, but grace does not give us a license to sin.

Yes, that's pretty much all Paul talks about in Romans 6,
where he gives these BACs in Rome a choice (Rom 6:16):
slave of sin >>> eternal death
slave of obedience >>> righteousness
Let us note that their righteous standing before the Lord must be continuing.
A dozen NT verses teach us that we must practice righteousness to be righteous,
I. E. it proves our righteous standing is intact.

 

[FreeGrace]

You miss the point altogether.

"No longer" means he is FREE from those problems/bondages!
He can (and may) return to them, however, if he so chooses!

And that was my point, which I didn't miss.

The point that cannot be supported from Scripture is that unbelievers have no choice to accept Christ. Why was Paul trying to persuade Jews to believe in the Messiah?

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes, that's pretty much all Paul talks about in Romans 6,
where he gives these BACs in Rome a choice (Rom 6:16):
slave of sin >>> eternal death
slave of obedience >>> righteousness
Let us note that their righteous standing before the Lord must be continuing.

Why assume that "slave of sin = eternal death"? Paul's point in Rom 6 and 7 is that believers choose to whom they obey. Does this suggest that such choices will lead the believer to eternal death?

And what is the basis for the believer's righteous standing before the Lord? Is it the believer's behavior (what they do)?

A dozen NT verses teach us that we must practice righteousness to be righteous,
I. E. it proves our righteous standing is intact.

On what basis is the believer declared righteous?

 

[for_his_glory]

IF we were forgiven ONLY of our past sins, then the atonement provided by God through Christ and His cross at Calvary means that there are sins in the born of God Christian's life that haven't yet been forgiven, then as it was BEFORE the cross in which the Holy Spirit could only overshadow "prophets, priests, and kings" instead of dwell within them and us. However, the Presence of the Holy Spirit dwelling within us proves that ALL our sins - past, present, and future HAS been atoned and forgiven by God through Christ and His cross.

John 14:17 (KJV)
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Overshadowed before the cross because atonement had not been applied in TIME, and within [you] because forgiveness and atonement has been applied to God's people in TIME.

IF there were any sins that were not atoned by Christ on the cross of which He paid to God a sacrificial death, then those sins would have kept Him in the grave.

What you have been teaching throughout all these pages is Universalism hyper-grace teaching which is a great heresy.

What Jesus has already taught:

Mark 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


What Universalism hyper-grace teaches:

* You do not need to confess your sins any longer to God because 1 John 1:9 is not written to Christians

* Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit does not come to convict you of sin

* The idea that the Holy Spirit comes to convict you of sin is a grotesque misrepresentation of repentance and that it was heathenish

* Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit will not make you feel guilt, shame nor rebuke you about your sin

* You do not or cannot grieve the Holy Spirit when you sin

*Jesus Christ plus nothing equals everything, as you do not need to do anything to please God

* You do not need to fear God, as God is completely pleased with you because of what Jesus did on the cross

* God is not moved by anything you do, good or bad

* Jesus did not die to mortify your behavior so don't be to conscientious about sin

* Prayers for forgiveness and praying for salvation of loved ones are a waste of time because God has already saved the world. Forgiveness is not something God does, it's something He's already done.

* A repentant life is not necessary because you were forgiven when you believed in Christ

* You will not receive any extra blessings by being obedient to God

* Under this new divine revelation of grace you are free to sin because you are a saint

* The teachings of Jesus Christ or His words in the Gospel do not apply to us today as they did to the New Testament believers

* Humility is considered debasement and a teaching of weakness

* Giving assurance to unrepentant sinners that they are eternally secure