Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38 & 39 Nations

[Sinthesis]

Agreed!

 

[Adstar]

Oh i just noticed this now and i should have seen it before You said Sinthesis that you believed the 1000 years where figurative language for everlasting...

"""""I don't believe in the one thousand years as literal years, but as figurative language for everlasting.""""""

This is totally un- Biblical because the Book of Revelation clearly states that the 1000 year period will "expire" meaning it is not everlasting..


Revelation 20 KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

[AirDancer]

7000 year week comes from the false teaching of Herbert W. Armstrong Church of the Great God which is a branch of the SDA that Armstrong developed as he started his own religion. Below is what he believed and taught. No where in scripture is a 7000 week ever taught that I have ever read and I use the KJV Bible.

ARMSTRONGISM

1. The ten lost tribes are migrated to the Anglo-Saxon Countries of Britain and the United States.
2. Britain=Ephraim
3. Israel is to be distinguished from the Jews. The Jews are from Judah and no one from Israel is a Jew.
4. England is the throne of David. This is where Christ will sit and rule when he returns to earth. ie: The throne upon which the Queen of England sits is actually the stone which Jacob used for a pillow at Bethel.
5. The use of the Hebrew language in relation to British-Israelism to show the House of Israel is the covenant people: the Hebrew word for "covenant" is "Beriyth". The Hebrew word for "man" is "ish". Together they mean "men of the covenant". The original Hebrew language has no vowels and they don't pronounce their "h's". If you keep the "I" to preserve the "y" sound, you take the Hebrew final form and use the Anglo pronunciation-"Beriyth" becomes Brith. Brit + ish = British, or covenant man. Also, the ten tribes are descended from Isaac and are therefore Isaac's sons. Armstrong puts this into shorter form "ssac's son's" or SAXONS.

Actually, Point #4 is quite inaccurate. The stone that is referred to as Jacob's pillow is, in reality, Scotland's Stone of Destiny and is now allegedly in Edinburgh Castle in Edinburgh, Scotland. It's 'alleged' only because the Scots deny that the real stone was ever stolen by the English, and that the true stone remains in safe-keeping.

 

[for_his_glory]

Actually, Point #4 is quite inaccurate. The stone that is referred to as Jacob's pillow is, in reality, Scotland's Stone of Destiny and is now allegedly in Edinburgh Castle in Edinburgh, Scotland. It's 'alleged' only because the Scots deny that the real stone was ever stolen by the English, and that the true stone remains in safe-keeping.

All five are inaccurate as I was trying to get Adstar to try and explain why he believes in a 7000 year week that I have never heard of or read in scripture, but he has never answered me on that.

 

[for_his_glory]

Oh i just noticed this now and i should have seen it before You said Sinthesis that you believed the 1000 years where figurative language for everlasting...

"""""I don't believe in the one thousand years as literal years, but as figurative language for everlasting.""""""

This is totally un- Biblical because the Book of Revelation clearly states that the 1000 year period will "expire" meaning it is not everlasting..


Revelation 20 KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Why would God have us wait for a literal 1000 years before He would release Satan out of his prison. Is a 1000 years as we mark them in a 24 hour day the same as Gods timing as a 1000 years are but a day to the Lord. The first resurrection has been made and we now reign with Christ for only a day before He releases Satan, but as soon as Satan gathers those of his dominion to battle God brings fire down from heaven immediately to devour him. All is going to be done metaphorically speaking in the twinkling of an eye.

The second and last battle of the end of days will be the gathering of the bride of Christ (those who are Spiritually born again) as she has made herself ready as she endured until the end of days, both dead and alive and will be taken in the air to meet Jesus while the angel chains Satan and throws him into the Abyss for a time. Jesus then comes down to earth to stand on the Mt. Of Olives with his army (we the saints) to fight the final battle as he cast the beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire and makes an end to the abominations or in other words make an end to sin. Jesus will then let Satan loose from the Abyss and with Satan’s army will rage war on all the nations but will be consumed by the fire of heaven and will be cast into the lake of fire and sulphur with his army for eternity. After this God will bring everyone into his throne of judgment and those not found in the Lambs book of Life will be cast also into the lake of fire and sulphur with the beast, false prophet, Satan and all his army thus ushering in the new heaven and the new Jerusalem that we will be with the Lord forever.

 

[Sinthesis]

Oh i just noticed this now and i should have seen it before You said Sinthesis that you believed the 1000 years where figurative language for everlasting...

"""""I don't believe in the one thousand years as literal years, but as figurative language for everlasting.""""""

This is totally un- Biblical because the Book of Revelation clearly states that the 1000 year period will "expire" meaning it is not everlasting..


Revelation 20 KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

What? So now we aren't agreeing to disagree?:wink

Jesus' reign doesn't expire. Luke 1:33

So one way to view this passage is as prophesy that eventually an alternative to Jesus' eternal authority will be released among those outside Jesus' Kingdom. Anyone sealed to God and Christ will still exist within the figurative 1000yrs of Jesus' eternal Kingdom. However, from the perspective of those not sealed to God and Christ, the figurative 1000yrs of Jesus' eternal Kingdom ends once they have the option to gather apart from Christ to another authority; an antichrist.

 

[Adstar]

Now think about this. How can we rule with Jesus if there is only Jesus and us existing.... when there is no one else to rule over?

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Who will Jesus be ruling with a rod of Iron? If all the people are either transformed into perfect beings or are cast into the lake of fire?

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

I hope he is not going to be ruling us with a rod of iron...

How can Jesus give his servants rule over cities some 10 cities some 1 city if there are no people to rule over?

Luke 19
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over tencities. 18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. 19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

 

[Adstar]

"""What? So now we aren't agreeing to disagree?"""

I think we shall continue to disagree. I don't think we are going to come to an agreement on these things.

The Authority of Jesus does not expire. Yes indeed. I never said at any time that the Authority of Jesus would expire. The 1000 years is a phase of history when eternal Saints shall be ruling over normal people on earth, At the end of that 1000 years satan shall be released as the book of revelation reveals and he will go out into the world and deceive these normal people and lead them to surround Jerusalem and then they shall be destroyed and then the final judgement shall happen Just as the Book of Revelation reveals.. See i am following the chronology of the Book of revelation. not trying to make the Book of Revelation fit some churches doctrine about the end times.

 

[Sinthesis]

Now think about this. How can we rule with Jesus if there is only Jesus and us existing.... when there is no one else to rule over?

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Who will Jesus be ruling with a rod of Iron? If all the people are either transformed into perfect beings or are cast into the lake of fire?

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

I hope he is not going to be ruling us with a rod of iron...

How can Jesus give his servants rule over cities some 10 cities some 1 city if there are no people to rule over?

Luke 19
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over tencities. 18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. 19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

When did I say there is only Jesus and us existing?

 

[Sinthesis]

"""What? So now we aren't agreeing to disagree?"""

I think we shall continue to disagree. I don't think we are going to come to an agreement on these things.

The Authority of Jesus does not expire. Yes indeed. I never said at any time that the Authority of Jesus would expire. The 1000 years is a phase of history when eternal Saints shall be ruling over normal people on earth, At the end of that 1000 years satan shall be released as the book of revelation reveals and he will go out into the world and deceive these normal people and lead them to surround Jerusalem and then they shall be destroyed and then the final judgement shall happen Just as the Book of Revelation reveals.. See i am following the chronology of the Book of revelation. not trying to make the Book of Revelation fit some churches doctrine about the end times.

I understand that the Book of Revelation contains more than one chronology, because the paths through time are not the same for those of every faith.

 

[for_his_glory]

Now think about this. How can we rule with Jesus if there is only Jesus and us existing.... when there is no one else to rule over?

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Who will Jesus be ruling with a rod of Iron? If all the people are either transformed into perfect beings or are cast into the lake of fire?

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

I hope he is not going to be ruling us with a rod of iron...

How can Jesus give his servants rule over cities some 10 cities some 1 city if there are no people to rule over?

Luke 19
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over tencities. 18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. 19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

If you go back to Rev 19:14,15 you see Jesus and we that have been gathered together with Him as we are that army now clothed in fine linen, white and clean. Vs. 15 that sharp sword is the very word of God that we smite the nations and Jesus will rule with a rod of iron, not a literal rod of iron, but with the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God as now judgement has come on all who have rejected Christ as Lord and Savior. Now if you read the rest of the verses in Chapter 19 you will see where the beast (nations) and their kings gather together to war against Jesus and we His army, but at that moment, not 1000 literal years later, Satan, the nations and their kings are now cast into the lake of fire and all the rest of the people of the earth that rejected Jesus are now slain (judged by the word of God) and cast into the lake of fire with Satan, the beast (nations) and those who ruled within these nations.

 

[Adstar]

I understand that the Book of Revelation contains more than one chronology, because the paths through time are not the same for those of every faith.

Don't know where you have got this doctrine? I never read it in the Bible?

 

[Adstar]

If you go back to Rev 19:14,15 you see Jesus and we that have been gathered together with Him as we are that army now clothed in fine linen, white and clean. Vs. 15 that sharp sword is the very word of God that we smite the nations and Jesus will rule with a rod of iron, not a literal rod of iron, but with the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God as now judgement has come on all who have rejected Christ as Lord and Savior. Now if you read the rest of the verses in Chapter 19 you will see where the beast (nations) and their kings gather together to war against Jesus and we His army, but at that moment, not 1000 literal years later, Satan, the nations and their kings are now cast into the lake of fire and all the rest of the people of the earth that rejected Jesus are now slain (judged by the word of God) and cast into the lake of fire with Satan, the beast (nations) and those who ruled within these nations.

If Jesus smites all the unbelievers then who shall he rule with the iron rod? The army gathered by the beast shall not be the entire world but troops from every nation.

Your not following the chronology of the book of Revelation your trying to squeeze the two different battles into one and shrink the 1000 years into a twinkling of an eye. The battle at the end of Revelation 19 is not the same battle that happens at the end of Revelation 20...

 

[for_his_glory]

If Jesus smites all the unbelievers then who shall he rule with the iron rod? The army gathered by the beast shall not be the entire world but troops from every nation.

Your not following the chronology of the book of Revelation your trying to squeeze the two different battles into one and shrink the 1000 years into a twinkling of an eye. The battle at the end of Revelation 19 is not the same battle that happens at the end of Revelation 20...

Jesus rules with with an iron rod, which is Gods wrath not a literal iron rod. Iron rod means Gods wrath over the enemy as they are judged and cast into the lake of fire.

There will be two great battles that will take place in the end of days as we the saints of God will still be here while they are taking place as Jesus said when you see the abomination of desolation (Papal Rome taking it’s seat in Jerusalem once again) stand in the Holy place, which is a literal place and a Spiritual place as Gods seal is upon those who are Spiritually born-again, John 3:3-6, Romans 10:9,10, and we need not fear what is about to take place even if we are persecuted to death for not bowing down to the new world order of a political, economic and religious system ran by the son of perdition, Matthew 10:28. You have to cross reference Zechariah 14; Revelation 13:11-18; and Revelation 20 to understand the prophecy given in Zechariah 14 about the second coming of Christ and what has to take place before and after his return that in a twinkling of an eye we will be with the Lord forever. Please read all these chapters as it is imperative for Spiritual understanding.
(Matthew 24:15; Revelation 7:3; 20:7-10)

The first battle of the end of days starts in Revelation chapter 20 and will be that of Satan’s control of Jerusalem through Papal Rome taking captive those that are of God and forcing them to bow down to their thoughts of an imaginative worship to their pagan gods and rituals and those that are in Christ will be forced to denounce Christ and if they refuse then they will die a martyrs death. This is the mark of the beast with Papal Rome being the beast and the mark of the beast is the actions of their hands and the thoughts of their minds. God sends an angel to bind up Satan and throw him into the Abyss right after Papal Rome’s abomination of desolation in Jerusalem so he can no longer deceive the nations. Remember that 1000 years is as a day with the Lord in his timing.
(Rev 13:11-18)

The second and last battle of the end of days will be the gathering of the bride of Christ (those who are Spiritually born again) as she has made herself ready as she endured until the end of days, both dead and alive and will be taken in the air to meet Jesus while the angel chains Satan and throws him into the Abyss for a time. Jesus then comes down to earth to stand on the Mt. Of Olives with his army (we the saints) to fight the final battle as he cast the beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire and makes an end to the abominations of Papal Rome. Jesus will then let Satan loose from the Abyss and with Satan’s army will rage war on all the nations but will be consumed by the fire of heaven and will be cast into the lake of fire and sulphur with his army for eternity. After this God will bring everyone into his throne of judgment and those not found in the Lambs book of Life will be cast also into the lake of fire and sulphur with the beast, false prophet, Satan and all his army thus ushering in the new heaven and the new Jerusalem that we will be with the Lord forever.
(Rev 20:5,6; 9:20,21; 20:15)

 

[Adstar]

Jesus rules with with an iron rod, which is Gods wrath not a literal iron rod. Iron rod means Gods wrath over the enemy as they are judged and cast into the lake of fire.

There will be two great battles that will take place in the end of days as we the saints of God will still be here while they are taking place as Jesus said when you see the abomination of desolation (Papal Rome taking it’s seat in Jerusalem once again) stand in the Holy place, which is a literal place and a Spiritual place as Gods seal is upon those who are Spiritually born-again, John 3:3-6, Romans 10:9,10, and we need not fear what is about to take place even if we are persecuted to death for not bowing down to the new world order of a political, economic and religious system ran by the son of perdition, Matthew 10:28. You have to cross reference Zechariah 14; Revelation 13:11-18; and Revelation 20 to understand the prophecy given in Zechariah 14 about the second coming of Christ and what has to take place before and after his return that in a twinkling of an eye we will be with the Lord forever. Please read all these chapters as it is imperative for Spiritual understanding.
(Matthew 24:15; Revelation 7:3; 20:7-10)

The first battle of the end of days starts in Revelation chapter 20 and will be that of Satan’s control of Jerusalem through Papal Rome taking captive those that are of God and forcing them to bow down to their thoughts of an imaginative worship to their pagan gods and rituals and those that are in Christ will be forced to denounce Christ and if they refuse then they will die a martyrs death. This is the mark of the beast with Papal Rome being the beast and the mark of the beast is the actions of their hands and the thoughts of their minds. God sends an angel to bind up Satan and throw him into the Abyss right after Papal Rome’s abomination of desolation in Jerusalem so he can no longer deceive the nations. Remember that 1000 years is as a day with the Lord in his timing.
(Rev 13:11-18)

The second and last battle of the end of days will be the gathering of the bride of Christ (those who are Spiritually born again) as she has made herself ready as she endured until the end of days, both dead and alive and will be taken in the air to meet Jesus while the angel chains Satan and throws him into the Abyss for a time. Jesus then comes down to earth to stand on the Mt. Of Olives with his army (we the saints) to fight the final battle as he cast the beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire and makes an end to the abominations of Papal Rome. Jesus will then let Satan loose from the Abyss and with Satan’s army will rage war on all the nations but will be consumed by the fire of heaven and will be cast into the lake of fire and sulphur with his army for eternity. After this God will bring everyone into his throne of judgment and those not found in the Lambs book of Life will be cast also into the lake of fire and sulphur with the beast, false prophet, Satan and all his army thus ushering in the new heaven and the new Jerusalem that we will be with the Lord forever.
(Rev 20:5,6; 9:20,21; 20:15)

Zechariah 14 is indeed about the times in question. So with that in mind we read that during the battle of Armageddon as we know Jesus will smite the army of the beast

Zechariah 14
12 ¶And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

But listen to what happens after these people are smited::

Zackariah 14
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague. 16 ¶And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

"""everyone that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem""" ? If Jesus smites all people who are not Saints then what are these people doing still existing?

""""17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.""""

So does this mean that rain shall not fall upon the lands where the Saints are? If indeed there are only Saints existing at this time?

""there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.""

So are the Saints now called Heathen? And will the LORD smite the Saints who are now in their eternal bodies? Will the Saints face Death again?

Nooooo.. These people are not Saints they are the descendants of the people who attacked Jerusalem and they will be forced to make the journey to Jerusalem each year for 1000 years and if they fail to show up to Worship the KING, the LORD of Hosts they will be struck with the plague..

 

[for_his_glory]

Adstar, I already explained all of this in post # 54. Zech 14 is a shadow that connects to Rev 13:11-18 and Rev 20 about the second coming of Christ and what has to take place before and after His return. If you want to believe in a literal 1000 years than that is your choice, but I do not see it as a literal 1000 years by the way I have studied scripture.

 

[Adstar]

Adstar, I already explained all of this in post # 54. Zech 14 is a shadow that connects to Rev 13:11-18 and Rev 20 about the second coming of Christ and what has to take place before and after His return. If you want to believe in a literal 1000 years than that is your choice, but I do not see it as a literal 1000 years by the way I have studied scripture.

Then we shall just have to disagree,

 

[for_his_glory]

It's sad we have to disagree on what the word of God says, but the important thing is that we have made ourselves ready to be that Bride Christ comes back for. God bless you brother.