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public schools in america

I believe in options; choices. :D (like charter, private and home schooling) What I don't like about public education, at least here in NJ, is nothing is standardized. We have over 600 school districts, each with it's own curriculum. :shame

Plus, funds just don't get distributed evenly. Just imagine if we consolidated on at least the county level; schoolbooks and supplies could be bought at volume discounted rates, saving money. Also, a family could move from one municipality to another in their county and know their child(ren) are getting the same education, because the books and curriculums would be the same.

I'm not against the system as much as I am in favor of serious reform. Take math alone; the US rates 32nd. in the developed world! :o Don't even get me started on reading and writing. :bigfrown

sidenote... Check this out:

http://www.arc.org/content/view/100/48/
 
I can get into more detail later, but the way I see it:

Private school is the best choice (besides home schooling which always wins!). The problem is Private school costs a lot of money, or so we would think, but when you consider that public school isn't free its just a "hidden" cost it looks little better. Private schools are rather cheap per year compared to a public school, for example the local private school is 5,000 a year and my education in public school is estimated at 16,000 a year! The cost of private school would go down even more if we got rid of public schools because they kill the whole freemarket, capitalism, competition thing!

Since you CHOOSE to send a child to a given private school you actually have a real say in their education, money talks always remember that. You vote with your dollars when it comes to private schools, when it is with public schools you vote by deciding whether or not you will make cupcakes for Johnny's class bake sale.

I could go on, but my public school demands I write a term paper as a graduation requirement, and I need to graduate in three weeks, so...
 
oh, hahahaha, I thought you were talking about the topic itself. lol

I cant speak much for this then. However, I was at a wedding a few weeks ago, and a girl (canadian girl) there just moved to the states. She's in grade 12, came to the wedding and said she couldnt believe how bad the schools were. She said her math class was teaching Grade 8 mathematics. I've heard this from a few other people too, they moved to the states and couldnt believe how all the classes seemed so downgraded.

anyway! that's all I really know about it. If that's true then yes!!!! CHANGE IT!!!!!
 
Public schools here in the US have become heavily dependent on their Federal, state and local unions. But that's not always the case. For instance, teachers in Virginia don't have a union and they seem to be doing fine without one. Listen, it's basically a civil service profession, so there's no real need for unions. Civil service jobs have guidelines of their own. It just seems redundant to have a union as well.

Here in NJ (and I suppose many other states too) if you don't join the union, they still deduct 85% of the union dues from your salary anyway! They claim you still capitalize on some of the union benefits despite not being a union member. You do risk being ostracized as a non union teacher. Some catch 22, heh?

In NJ, the NJEA is declared a non profit organization. That means they don't have to disclose their "books". They collect over 100 million in fees per year. I'd like to know how that money is being spent (I do have my suspissions), but there's no real way of knowing.

What a racket! LOL!
 
Pard said:
Private school is the best choice (besides home schooling which always wins!). The problem is Private school costs a lot of money, or so we would think, but when you consider that public school isn't free its just a "hidden" cost it looks little better. Private schools are rather cheap per year compared to a public school, for example the local private school is 5,000 a year and my education in public school is estimated at 16,000 a year! The cost of private school would go down even more if we got rid of public schools because they kill the whole freemarket, capitalism, competition thing!
Click to expand...
First, I'm certain home schooling doesn't always win, because not every parent is cut out to take on that serious commitment. And it is a huge commitment.

With regard to your cost analysis, at first I thought you were talking about the cost to the family as the system exists. But I think you were talking about the tax burden to the community overall. We had to make the decision to send our oldest to high school at a public school this year. After 8 years, K and pre-K, we weighed things, and determined that we couldn't do what we couldn't do.$$$

It would be a much better world if we could get vouchers to offset the cost of private high school or defer our taxes to where we choose. There was a while I thought we might be heading there in Michigan, but our fearless Canadian-born import governor has done a lot of damage to that initiative. :mad
 
Funny you mentioned that Mike. Our new Gov is doing the best he can to undo what the last two administrations have done over the last 10 years. 70% increase in property taxes alone, not to mention the waste spending on the local level.

A couple of months ago I was on a forum discussing the school system here in NJ. A poster from your state said, "Please Mr. Christie, when you are done in NJ, come to Ill.." :lol
 
Mike said:
Pard said:
Private school is the best choice (besides home schooling which always wins!). The problem is Private school costs a lot of money, or so we would think, but when you consider that public school isn't free its just a "hidden" cost it looks little better. Private schools are rather cheap per year compared to a public school, for example the local private school is 5,000 a year and my education in public school is estimated at 16,000 a year! The cost of private school would go down even more if we got rid of public schools because they kill the whole freemarket, capitalism, competition thing!
Click to expand...
First, I'm certain home schooling doesn't always win, because not every parent is cut out to take on that serious commitment. And it is a huge commitment.

With regard to your cost analysis, at first I thought you were talking about the cost to the family as the system exists. But I think you were talking about the tax burden to the community overall. We had to make the decision to send our oldest to high school at a public school this year. After 8 years, K and pre-K, we weighed things, and determined that we couldn't do what we couldn't do.$$$

It would be a much better world if we could get vouchers to offset the cost of private high school or defer our taxes to where we choose. There was a while I thought we might be heading there in Michigan, but our fearless Canadian-born import governor has done a lot of damage to that initiative. :mad
Click to expand...

Ya, sorry I didn't make that clear. I meant the total money from the community not just the family.

A communist kid asked me how I could justify vouchers since it would be the community paying for the kids still. Frankly, educated individuals betters the community far more than if you could keep your few tax dollars that make it to the education coffers.

And I know Homeschooling is a commitment, but those who can do it are going to give their kids the best education they can (especially Christian families)
 
With regard to your cost analysis, at first I thought you were talking about the cost to the family as the system exists. But I think you were talking about the tax burden to the community overall. We had to make the decision to send our oldest to high school at a public school this year. After 8 years, K and pre-K, we weighed things, and determined that we couldn't do what we couldn't do.$$$
Click to expand...
Mike, I believe he was referring to a per student, per year cost.My state hovers over $18,000 per year, per student. That's an average, some districts more; some less.
 
Public schools are disgusting, unfortunately, with the New York City required curriculum, the private schools are no better. What we learn is so watered down at this point to accommodate the kids that don’t want to learn, simply in the way that the teachers don’t have to deal with them for another year. I’m in all honors and, frankly, the average classes should be learning what we do. We no longer have Biology in our high school unless it is taken as an AP course. We have Living Environment instead. I have taken the past regents; they are jokes. In every subject. The eleventh grade US History regents could have been taken by a fifth grader and they would have passed.
The public school system needs so much reform that even now the kids are suffering for it. Some of it may be the parents’ mentality - which is terrible here - but it is ridiculous. I’m in ninth grade and a good portion of my English class did not know the meaning of the word “reluctant.†My own teacher was confused with word pronunciations and the meaning of “omniscient.†And it’s not the one teacher either. I know more about certain areas of science than my Living Environment teacher. History is even worse, but that subject was really always taught poorly. It is not good.
Unfortunately, here, private schooling is just another term used for the same poor education, with less extracurricular activities and a high tuition. They teach the same thing, which is terrible. The only difference is that if it happens to be a Catholic or Christian school, they have a class for religion.

To sum it up, it’s not just the public education system that needs reform, but the entire system in America.
 
Vic C. said:
Funny you mentioned that Mike. Our new Gov is doing the best he can to undo what the last two administrations have done over the last 10 years. 70% increase in property taxes alone, not to mention the waste spending on the local level.

A couple of months ago I was on a forum discussing the school system here in NJ. A poster from your state said, "Please Mr. Christie, when you are done in NJ, come to Ill.." :lol
Click to expand...

I'll pay for your airfare! And you have a place to stay at my home, but I'm sure we could pass the hat and put you up someplace high rent like the Holiday Inn Express. :thumb
 
man this got heated real quick, whew.
nick in america much of what is said is the truth in all 50. florida has standards but that is gone , and i agree to extent why as the fcat was good at first, but the teachers and the schools wanting to keep running only taught the test.

the core problem is this, as american society dies so the does the instutions. parents(some) dont care about their kids education. no kid can be forced to learn.

we also have vouchers and magnet schools. and the charter schools which the unions hate, as the later is the most efficient imho.
 
I agree with jasoncran........ but that is mainly because in the sate I am in it is very similar to his state (no surprise :D ). We have all of the above also. For the most part, there are good private schools and there are good public schools. There are good charter schools and there are good homeschooling parents. AND...... there are bad public schools, bad private schools, bad homeschooling parents, and bad charter schools. :shrug When it comes down to it, I don't think it can be generalized as one being good, one being bad, and the others being maybe-kinda-sorta-okay. The public school my oldest started out in was wonderful. We moved and it was awful, so I pulled her out to homeschool. I homeschooled my children for more than 3 years, and then I moved again and placed them back in public schools. The public schools here are like private schools-- low class sizes, conservative values (they still spank even as old as 8th grade or higher, have a strict dress code, etc.), they are recognized schools based upon their test scores, etc. These schools have zero tolerance rules and if a kid so much as gets written up for a substitute teacher then it earns them a day in OCS. My oldest children who are in school make straight A's, are in honors classes, are amongst the top readers in their class, earn commendable level on their exams, etc. Is it because they are naturally smart? or because I homeschooled them? Or because the public schools are teaching at a low level? Some might say yes to the first one, maybe to the second, and maybe to the third...... I say no, it is because my children work hard and earn everything they get and also we value education in the home. My younger son comes home and for "fun" pulls out math workbooks I buy him and will do as many as 50 pages in one sitting. My oldest knows that she can earn a prize at the end of the year if she is one of the top readers and she has her nose in a book every chance she gets. Sure, my kids are bright, but they also have their struggles and difficulties like anyone else. They just work hard. One thing that I have worked at instilling in them since they were young is that when something is difficult and gets hard, then that is when you work harder and push more.
 
Karl Marx describes in his communist manifesto, the ten steps necessary to destroy a free enterprise system and replace it with a system of omnipotent government power, so as to effect a communist socialist state. Those ten steps are known as the Ten Planks of The Communist Manifesto…


10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.
Americans are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, but are actually "government force-tax-funded schools " Even private schools are government regulated. The purpose is to train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education" . These are used so that all children can be indoctrinated and inculcated with the government propaganda, like "majority rules", and "pay your fair share". WHERE are the words "fair share" in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)?? NO WHERE is "fair share" even suggested !! The philosophical concept of "fair share" comes from the Communist maxim, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need! This concept is pure socialism. ... America was made the greatest society by its private initiative WORK ETHIC ... Teaching ourselves and others how to "fish" to be self sufficient and produce plenty of EXTRA commodities to if so desired could be shared with others who might be "needy"... Americans have always voluntarily been the MOST generous and charitable society on the planet.


http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Ma ... lanks.html
 
Karl Marx describes in his communist manifesto, the ten steps necessary to destroy a free enterprise system and replace it with a system of omnipotent government power, so as to effect a communist socialist state. Those ten steps are known as the Ten Planks of The Communist Manifesto…
Click to expand...
Yes, we saw first hand how this worked out for the former USSR! :lol

Ronnie, I agree with the points you are making, but that is just one out of ten points in the manifesto. Actually, free public schooling is not a Marxist idea. The Puritans first came up with the idea in the mid 1600s and Jefferson incorporated it into the national arena.

It's here and it's not going anywhere. We must man up to that fact. So, the alternatives are, as I mentioned in my first post, fight for all other viable options. I mentioned unions and the fact that we really don't need teachers unions. There isn't anything in the US Constitutions that mandates States to require unions for public employees. Goodness, we pay their salaries with our tax dollars! They should be negotiating with us! LOL

The reality is, free, public education really isn't free. We pay for it and we should have a say. People have become complacent and feel they don't have the right to speak up against the educational status quo.

Bringing up conspiracy issues will just spark debate, which I wish to avoid.
 
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