Qualifications For Rapture?

[jasoncran]

Agreed the seed of abraham will recieve the promise. My contention is that the church (to include the OT saints) is the seed of abraham per-Gal 3v
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

i have no doubt on that you are per romans 11 grafted in. i am not,i'm merely a fulfilled jew. i didnt care for my ancestry to much before salvation but that changed alot when i came to christ.

what i'm suggesting that a renmant per romans 11 comes to the lord and along with the 144k isreal is reborn as those will be faithful hebrews born in the tribulation. the current isreal is a shell of what is and they arent really isreal that is the one come to the promises. that is for another topic.

the faithful hebrews when the millenium occurs will recieve apportioned land in the middle east per the promise. only the hebrews that come to christ recieve that promise. that isnt to say the gentiles wont be in isreal just that the rule or local governors will be hebrews.

 

[savedbygrace57]

A Glaring Problem !

A Glaring Problem that those have who believe that Christ is coming first to rapture the church, and subsequent comes again to Judgment. This contradicts the biblical fact that Christ sits and remains at the Right Hand of God the Father until the time when the Father puts all enemies to be His footstool ! Ps 110:

1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

acts 2:

32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.


33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Matt 26:

64Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Jesus does not leave His Place at the Right Hand pf Glory above until the Father hath prepared the enemies to be His footstool, this is in fulfillment of that day, that He has been appointed to Judge the world in righteousness acts 17:

31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Then Christ comes forth to act on the commission and appointment thus received, then He puts forth His Authority as the Judge of Mankind, and in subjecting all His enemies and His church's. Those who are teaching that Christ will leave the Right Hand of God to secretly rapture the Church, before the Father has prepared the foes to be His footstool, have Jesus contradicting Himself before the High Priest, as well as other portions of scripture.

 

[Sam21]

The bible is full of what appear to be contradictions, you have just chosen to present one side,Jesus also said that He would return in the sky and send His angles to gather the believers, Paul also described this. So Jesus is seated at the right hand of Power until His enemies are made His footstool and Jesus is coming in the clouds to gather the believers and pay back the unGodly,the bible teaches BOTH.

 

[Sam21]

in proper context and given verses in the torah, the tanakh and the prophets that is what the men of the days ere christ that did have faith and please God said and were.

the context that alabaster is saying that the state of isreal or the hebrews will as a peoples believe on the lord and come to christ and be saved from the army of the enemy in the battle of harmeggido.

Yes, but it is assumption that Jesus was describing a repentant national Israel, it is not a fact according to what is written in Matt 24 nor according to what was happening at that time. The elect at that time were the apostles and other believers in Jesus Christ and those are the ones that Jesus said that He would return to gather,not the nation of Israel. The very word elect at that time meant those believers in Christ who had refused to follow the nation of Israel. So the elect would most certainly be the church if the church were those who followed Christ and refused to follow the nation of Israel.

 

[jasoncran]

Yes, but it is assumption that Jesus was describing a repentant national Israel, it is not a fact according to what is written in Matt 24 nor according to what was happening at that time. The elect at that time were the apostles and other believers in Jesus Christ and those are the ones that Jesus said that He would return to gather,not the nation of Israel. The very word elect at that time meant those believers in Christ who had refused to follow the nation of Israel. So the elect would most certainly be the church if the church were those who followed Christ and refused to follow the nation of Israel.

that isnt what i was addressing totally. why then did the disciples not get rebuked for asking that the question when will the kingdom be restored to isreal? if the the church is isreal and isreal doesnt have a kindgom what happened? are they disciples and us not in the kingdom now? when one comes to the cross they are subjects to the king and thus in the kingdom albeit in a foreign land but citizens.

 

[warhorse]

i have no doubt on that you are per romans 11 grafted in. i am not,i'm merely a fulfilled jew. i didnt care for my ancestry to much before salvation but that changed alot when i came to christ.

what i'm suggesting that a renmant per romans 11 comes to the lord and along with the 144k isreal is reborn as those will be faithful hebrews born in the tribulation. the current isreal is a shell of what is and they arent really isreal that is the one come to the promises. that is for another topic.

the faithful hebrews when the millenium occurs will recieve apportioned land in the middle east per the promise. only the hebrews that come to christ recieve that promise. that isnt to say the gentiles wont be in isreal just that the rule or local governors will be hebrews.

AGREED

 

[hisbeloved]

God did not appoint us to the wrath of God,however the tribulation that Jesus said would precede His return is the wrath of satan not God.

the bowls in revelation say clearly that these are the bowls of the wrath of God

 

[hisbeloved]

i think that qualifies for all to be in the kingdom whether in the trib or not. i am not a pre-tribber as theres no promise for the church to be taken from the wrath of satan or man.

Jason. since you are a Jew, I am sure that you are familar with the ancient
Jewish/Hebrew marriage betrothal, wedding ceremony and honeymoon; so to speak.
would you just humor me and read the link I have provided and give me your opinions. End Times | Rapture & Jewish Wedding

Shalom,to Jason

 

[XTruth]

A Christian who has a heart for God will die with unrepented sin--we all will. You cannot tell me you have remembered every last little sin you have committed since childhood before the Throne of Grace!

Some people commit sin and they don't even know it's considered a sin for them by God. What then?

Good thing God looks on the heart.

Did you remember every last sin when you repented to God the first time? Well then, why do you think it is different in the future when you repent from your past sins? Jesus said to go to your firtst works of repentence (Rev.2:5, 16, 21-22; 3:3, 19). You must repent as a Christian if you have sinned b/c sin damns the soul (Mat.15:10-20; 1 Cor.3:16-17; 6:9-10; Gal.5:19-21; 6:1; Eph.5:3-7; Jas.5:19-20; Jas.1:13-16; 1 Jn.1:9; Rev.21:7-8, 27; 22:15; etc.)

 

[XTruth]

Is not Jesus the Word? He has plenty to say about it.

John 14:3 NLT
When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am.

Luke 21:34-36

Don't forget that the rapture was a mystery at that time, which means it was not yet revealled. Paul, when stating that something is a mystery, is actually revealling the mystery at that time. The mystery of the rapture revealled was years later in the famous rapture verses and most known of 1 Cor.15 and 1 Thes.4:13-18 from when Jesus spoke His words.

 

[XTruth]

Okay,so you saying,the 2nd coming and the rapture are 2 different events?Also,if Christ told them everything that must happen before His return,and since rapturist say they will be raptured before the 2nd coming,how could He fail to mention it

Please address just 10% of this (just 2 of 20). Be truthful w/ the Scripture and not your own heart, which is inheritly wicked.

20 CONTRASTS BETWEEN THE RAPTURE AND THE SECOND ADVENT



1. The rapture is a going up to heaven of all saved men of all past ages (John. 14:1-3; Col. 3:4; Jas. 5:7-8; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:1-10), whereas the second advent is a coming down from heaven to earth of the same people (Rev. 19:11-21; Jude 14-15; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; Mt. 16:27; Mt 24:29-31; Mt 25:31-46; Zech. 14:1-9).

2. The rapture is a coming of Christ from heaven to the clouds (not to the earth) for the saints-both dead (who will be resurrected) and alive-to take them to heaven (1 Thess. 4:16), while the second advent is a coming from heaven with the previously raptured saints to set up a kingdom and rule eternally (Zech. 14:1-9; Jude 14-15; Rev. 11:15; Rev 19:11-21; Rev 22:4-5; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; Mt. 25:31-46; Isa. 9:6-7; Dan. 2:44-45;Dan 7:9-15,18,22,27; Lk. 1:32-36).

3. Our goal in the rapture is heaven to live with Christ in our mansions (John. 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 2:19-20; 1 Thess 3:13; 1 Thess 4:13-18; 1 Thess 5:1-11,23; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:1-10; Col. 3:4; Jas. 5:7-8), while the goal in the second advent is to leave heaven for the earth to reign forever (Zech. 14; Jude 14-15; Rev. 11:15; Rev 19:11 - Rev 20:10).

4. At the rapture Christ does not come to destroy the Antichrist or any other wicked man but to remove the hinderer of lawlessness (the church, Chapter 10, Proof 1), so that the Antichrist can come (2 Thess. 2:7-8), while at the second advent Christ comes back to the earth with all saints of all ages to destroy Antichrist and multitudes of wicked men (2 Thess. 2:7-8; Dan. 7:11; Jude 14-15; Rev. 19:11-21; see also Mt. 24:37-42;Mt 25:31-46; Ezek. 38- Ezek. 39; Zech. 14).

5. At the rapture Christ comes from heaven to the clouds only (not to the earth) to take the good from among the bad (John. 5:28-29; John. 14:1-3; Lk. 21:34-36; 1 Cor. 15:23,51-54; Phil. 3:21; Col. 3:4; 1 Thess. 4:16-18; Jas. 5:7-8), while at the second advent-years later-He comes to the earth with His raptured saints to take the bad from among the good (Mt. 13:30,39-43,49-50;Mt 24:29-31,37-42; Jude 14-15; Ezek. 38- Ezek. 39; Zech. 14; Rev. 19:11-21).

6. At the rapture only those qualified for heaven will be raptured (John. 14:1-3; Lk. 21:34-36; 1 Cor. 15:23; 1 Thess. 4:16; Rev. 20:4-6); only those who are born again will be changed from mortality to immortality and go to heaven. At the second advent, on the other hand, any and all men qualified to live on the earth as citizens will be permitted to continue as natural people into the next age, without any change from mortality to immortality (Mt. 25:31-46; Zech. 8:23;Zech 14:1-21; Isa. 2:2-4;Isa 66:19-21; Dan. 2:44-45;Dan 7:9-14; 1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 2:27-28; Rev 11:15; Rev 20:4-6).

7. At the rapture there will be no battle of Armageddon (John. 14:1-3; Lk. 21:34-36; 1 Cor. 15:23,51-54; 1 Thess. 4:16), while at the second advent Armageddon will be fought (Zech. 14; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; Jude 14-15; Rev. 16:13-16; Rev 19:11-21; Ezek. 38- Ezek. 39).

8. At the rapture there will be no change of home lands on earth among the nations (John. 14:1-3), while at the second advent there will be a general separation of nations back to their original home lands, including Israel (Isa. 11:11-12; Deut 32:8; Ezek. 37; Mt. 24:31; Acts 17:26).

9. At the rapture no man will be sent to hell, but all saints will be taken to heaven (John. 14:1-3; Lk. 21:34-36; 1 Thess. 4:16; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:1-10), while at the second advent millions of men will be sent to hell and none taken to heaven (Mt. 13:30,43-50;Mt 25:31-46; Isa. 14:9-15; Rev. 14:9-11; Rev 19:20; Rev 20:10).

10. At the rapture all saints will "escape all these things that shall come to pass" during the tribulation, and will "stand before the Son of man" (Lk. 21:34-36; John. 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 4:16;1 Thess 5:1-11; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:1-10; see Chapter 10), whereas at the second advent no man who is subject to punishment will escape (Rev. 19:1-21; Mt. 24:29-31;Mt 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 1:7-10).

11. The rapture will take place before the revelation of the Antichrist (2 Thess. 2:7-8) and before the tribulation and fulfillment of Rev. 4:1 - Rev 22:21, while the second advent will take place after these events (Mt. 24:29-31; 2 Thess. 2:7-8; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:11-21). See Chapter 10.

12. At the rapture there will be a resurrection of all the righteous dead (1 Thess. 4:16; 1 Cor. 15:23,51-54; Phil. 3:21), while at the second advent there will be no resurrection of any righteous man, for the first resurrection will then be over (Rev. 20:4-6).

13. At the time of the rapture no man on earth will know who the Antichrist is (2 Thess. 2:7-8), whereas at the second advent all men on earth in the civilized parts will know who he is (Rev. 13:16-18).

14. At the rapture the church and all others who are redeemed saints at that time will be presented to God in heaven (Eph. 5:27; 1 Thess. 3:13;1 Thess 5:23), while at the second advent all raptured saints will be presented to men on earth as their new rulers (Rev. 2:27; Rev 5:10; Rev 20:4-6; Dan. 7:9-27).

15. Before the rapture there will be no marriage supper of the Lamb, whereas just before the second advent there will be such a supper of Christ with all the redeemed of all ages past (Rev. 19:1-21).

16. There will be a seven-year period of tribulation after the rapture (2 Thess. 2:7-8; Dan. 9:27; Rev. 6:1 - Rev 19:21), whereas there will be no tribulation at all after the second advent, for the second coming of Christ ends all tribulation (Mt. 24:29-31;Mt 25:31-46; Rev. 19-20).

17. There will be no end of the world (age) at the time of the rapture, while the age will definitely end at the time of the second advent of Christ to the earth (Mt. 24:1-3,29-31;Mt 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 2:7-8; Rev. 19:1 - Rev 20:10).

18. The rapture is an event that can take place any day without any prophecy being fulfilled or any sign coming to pass (1 Cor. 1:7; Phil. 3:21; Tit. 2:13; 1 Thess. 1:10), while the second advent cannot take place until all of the predictions in Mt. 24 - Mt. 25; Mk 13; Lk. 21:1-11,25-33; 2 Thess. 2:7-8; and Rev. 4:1 - Rev 19:10 have been fulfilled.

19. There will be no reign of the Antichrist before the rapture, but there will be such a reign before the second advent (Dan. 9:27; 2 Thess. 2:7-8; Rev. 6:1 - Rev 19:21).

20. There will be no martyrdoms of saints after the second advent, while there will be multitudes of martyrs after the rapture and between the time of the rapture and the second advent (Rev. 6:9-11; Rev 7:9-17; Rev 13:7; Rev 14:9-13; Rev 15:1-4; Rev 17:6; Rev 18:24; Rev 20:4-6).

 

[Hitch]

Luke 21:34-36

Don't forget that the rapture was a mystery at that time, which means it was not yet revealled. Paul, when stating that something is a mystery, is actually revealling the mystery at that time. The mystery of the rapture revealled was years later in the famous rapture verses and most known of 1 Cor.15 and 1 Thes.4:13-18 from when Jesus spoke His words.

His words?

Jesus said the resurrection would come at the last day.

Last day is by no means a 'mystery'. And unless when Jesus said 'last day' he meant something completely different from the normal understanding of the term the entire sandy foundation of rapturism is draining from the glass.

No, it cant be a reference to the 'church age' as that was yet to be revealed and every good DF knows the Gospels are kingdom oriented and Jesus never spoke during the 'church age'

 

[Alabaster]

Sorry but the elect is the bride.

Romans 2v28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Yes the Bride is the elect, but as the Bride is with Christ at that time, and God is dealing with the Jew, He is coming to gather His elect people from among Israel, who God will have been offering redemption to through His witnesses.

 

[hisbeloved]

Re: A Glaring Problem !

A Glaring Problem that those have who believe that Christ is coming first to rapture the church, and subsequent comes again to Judgment. This contradicts the biblical fact that Christ sits and remains at the Right Hand of God the Father until the time when the Father puts all enemies to be His footstool ! Ps 110:

1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

acts 2:

32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.


33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Matt 26:

64Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Jesus does not leave His Place at the Right Hand pf Glory above until the Father hath prepared the enemies to be His footstool, this is in fulfillment of that day, that He has been appointed to Judge the world in righteousness acts 17:

31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Then Christ comes forth to act on the commission and appointment thus received, then He puts forth His Authority as the Judge of Mankind, and in subjecting all His enemies and His church's. Those who are teaching that Christ will leave the Right Hand of God to secretly rapture the Church, before the Father has prepared the foes to be His footstool, have Jesus contradicting Himself before the High Priest, as well as other portions of scripture.

Unless I am misunderstanding you, you are implying that Jesus cannot leave the fathers side and at the same time come in the clouds to receive his bride in the rapture? and this is one of your reason's why there is no rapture???

If this is what you are alluding to then there is a glaring problem with the scripture you quoted above in matt 26:64 because it say's plain as day there ,that he is sitting on the right hand of power while at the same time he is coming in the clouds of heaven.

That aside ,you do realize that all of heaven is the throne were he sits and that is the place of power
and the earth is his footstool right now?
btw all of heaven means all, even where the clouds are

so therefore he can still be sitting on the right hand of power and not leave it the right hand of power
when the raptured saints meet him in the clouds, what kind of clouds? the clouds of heaven.where is his throne? all of heaven.