Qualifications For Rapture?

[taromina2003]

I suggest that one reason for the development of the belief in a "rapture" is the misunderstanding of metaphorical language. There is a long tradition of the use of such language in the scriptures - the Hebrew writers "knew a good metaphor when they saw one".

The problem is that many in the 21st century have read these metaphors and taken them literally. Thus, just as one example, people read the "caught up in the air" statement from 1 Thess 4 and take it literally. I think it is clearly a metaphor, although that argument needs to be made.

This same "reading a metaphor as literal" problem also leads to other errors about the end times, where texts expressed using lurid cosmological imagery (e.g. stars falling to earth, earthquakes, etc.) are taken literally. Instead, I suggest these are metaphors, intended to invest what are actually "commonplace" events - like political changes - with their theological significance.

I think we are all in agreement that the false one comes first at the sixth trump. It is at the 7th trump Jesus returns. As you pointed out Jesus only comes one more time.

 

[taromina2003]

You might be a "preterist" and not know it. This is, to some degree at least, true of me - I believe that there are a number of New Testament prophecies that were fufilled in the first century, whereas many, perhaps most, Christians believe such prophecies remain to be fulfilled.

In any event, the correctness of "preterism" and / or its variants should be decided on calm Biblical / historical argument.

I think of Martyrs from centuries ago, Israel becoming a nation in 1948,etc these are all birth pains as described in the New Testament and the book of Revelations.

 

[Drew]

I think of Martyrs from centuries ago, Israel becoming a nation in 1948,etc these are all birth pains as described in the New Testament and the book of Revelations.

Well, I do not share your position on the foundation of Israel - I believe that as of the cross, the nation of Israel no longer has "special status" of any kind in the eyes of God.

So, naturally enough, I see the founding of Israel in 1948 as an "act of men". I am not thereby suggesting it was "wrong", but rather that, whether right or wrong, it was not something "prophecied". I realize that I am in the minority on this issue.

 

[taromina2003]

Well, I do not share your position on the foundation of Israel - I believe that as of the cross, the nation of Israel no longer has "special status" of any kind in the eyes of God.

So, naturally enough, I see the founding of Israel in 1948 as an "act of men". I am not thereby suggesting it was "wrong", but rather that, whether right or wrong, it was not something "prophecied". I realize that I am in the minority on this issue.

I struggle with that so I cannot disagree with you.

 

[reba]

5 - Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities.

6 - No Bashing of other members. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself.

 

[Scandinavian27]

I believe in post-trib rapture. Why would God want to whisk away his believers in this turmoil time when they can be used to help save lost souls.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. - Matthew 24:13

 

[Prince]

As we all know, not everyone will be raptured on earth, so there are conditions. I'm not saying any believer will or will not be left behind, but these seem to be the biblical conditions / qualifications to be a part of the rapture.

1) Be in Christ (1 Thes.4:14, 16; 2 Cor.5:17-18)

2) Be Christ’s (1 Cor.15:23; Gal.5:24)

3) Be blessed and holy (Rev.20:4-6; Heb.12:14)

4) Be good (Jn.5:28-29)

5) Be worthy (Lk.21:36)

6) Be in the Church (1 Cor.12:13; Eph.1:20-23; 4:4-6; 5:27; Col.1:18, 24)

7) Be pure (1 Jn.3:2-3)

8) Be without spot or wrinkle (Eph.5:27)

9) Live and walk in the Spirit (Gal.5:19-21)

10) Walk in the light (1 Jn.1:7; Col.2:6)

Hello X

I do not believe no one will be raptured on the earth... There is no such thing as a rapture, kinda a cowards way out if you think about it ..

Let me ask you, does the rapture take place after or before the 7th trump.

 

[XTruth]

Of course this would spark a debate over the timing of the rapture and if it is even real (lol).

At the core of this thread's OP is the truth that not all who believe will be raptured because it is obvious that not all are "in Christ," many are "in sin." Only past sins of one's life have been forgiven. Jesus would not ask us (warn us) to repent or else He will fight against us and remove our candlestick if future sins of a believer were automatically forgiven w/o future repentance (Eze.18:24-32; Lk.13:3-5;Gal.5:19-21; 6:1, 7-8; Jas.1:13-16; 5:19-20; 1 Jn.1:9; 2:1-6; Rev.2:5, 16, 21-22; 3:3, 19).


As for the proof of a pre-trib rapture.... or the actual event that will happen before you know it since most are not watching, go here: "Once Saved, Always Saved" Destroying A Doctrine Of Demons - Pre Trib Rapture

"7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing (2 Tim.4)."


The rapture happens before the 1st seal, before the 1st trumpet, before the 1st vile, before the revealling of the Antichrist by the signing of the 7 yr peace covenant w/ Israel and before the great apostasy that is coming and great revival at the same time. BEFORE, BEFORE, BEFORE!

 

[taromina2003]

I believe in post-trib rapture. Why would God want to whisk away his believers in this turmoil time when they can be used to help save lost souls.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. - Matthew 24:13

My point exactly!

 

[Drew]

I believe in post-trib rapture. Why would God want to whisk away his believers in this turmoil time when they can be used to help save lost souls.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. - Matthew 24:13

Are you sure that there will be a "rapture" of any kind? Have you read post 19, which provides an argument against the very notion of any kind of rapture?

 

[Drew]

Of course this would spark a debate over the timing of the rapture and if it is even real (lol).

Indeed. And arguments, Biblical ones at that, against the "reality" of the rapture should be dealt with and not dismissed.

 

[taromina2003]

Are you sure that there will be a "rapture" of any kind? Have you read post 19, which provides an argument against the very notion of any kind of rapture?

I believe that those of us on earth when Jesus returns will be turned into spiritual bodies not necessarily a rapture. Jesus' kingdom will be on earth.

 

[Drew]

I believe that those of us on earth when Jesus returns will be turned into spiritual bodies not necessarily a rapture. Jesus' kingdom will be on earth.

I agree 100 % with this view.

 

[XTruth]

I believe in post-trib rapture. Why would God want to whisk away his believers in this turmoil time when they can be used to help save lost souls.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. - Matthew 24:13

The whole of Mat.24 and 25:31-46 is very much Jewish in nature, not to the church. That would explain that.

 

[XTruth]

I agree 100 % with this view.

Biblical references?

 

[taromina2003]

Biblical references?

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica] (NIV, Revelation 21:1-4)[/FONT]

 

[XTruth]

Oh yes, I agree whole heartedly that the kingdom of God will be on earth. I am referring to the claim that when Jesus returns to earth that all saints will just turn into "spiritual bodies."

 

[Drew]

Biblical references?

If your question is about the reality of a rapture event, please see post 19 - there I argue Biblically that there will be no rapture, at least no rapture in the sense of people being taken off the face of the earth. I have other Biblical arguments that I can present as well.

Now as to "spiritual bodies": I believe that Paul understands the final state of the redeemed saint as being in a physical body, but that he (Paul) describes this body as "spiritual" to capture the notion that this body will be a "transformed" version of our present bodies. I am not, repeat not, suggesting that we not have resurrection bodies that are physical.

I believe it is clear from 1 Corinthians 15 that Paul believes that the final state of the believer is in a body with arms, legs, head, etc - just like Jesus had. Things get tricky because Paul describes this body as "spiritual" and 21st century westerners, steeped as we are in Greek dualistic thinking (where there is the physical world and an unseen world of immaterial "spirit") misread Paul's characterization and get the idea that we will be "disembodied" forever.

I do not think that is correct - I believe we all get physical bodies that last forever (but, of course, are different in some ways from the bodies we have now). In short, when Paul uses the term "spiritual body", he is still referring to something with legs, arms, a head, etc.

 

[taromina2003]

Oh yes, I agree whole heartedly that the kingdom of God will be on earth. I am referring to the claim that when Jesus returns to earth that all saints will just turn into "spiritual bodies."

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica] (NIV, 1 Corinthians 15:42-44)[/FONT]

 

[XTruth]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica] (NIV, 1 Corinthians 15:42-44)[/FONT]

Good job! You are searching, and yes there is a spiritual body and a natural body! But we do not obtain this spiritual body at the rapture or at the Second Coming. We are to have this now.

[spiritual body] Greek: pneumatikos (GSN-<G4152>), note, Rom. 7:14. By this is meant the body will become of immortal substance. It has no reference to becoming immaterial, intangible, and without flesh and bones, for our resurrected bodies will still be flesh and bone, though not flesh and blood. See Lk. 24:39; Php. 3:21. Spirit bodies are as real as can be, but of a higher substance than natural bodies. God and angels have spirit bodies, and yet they are real tangible and materialized bodies, as proved by hundreds of passages describing them and many personal acts.

[the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God] Two kinds of people (1Cor. 2:14-15):



1. The natural man. Greek: psuchikos (GSN-<G5591>), soulish (1Cor. 2:14; 15:44-46; Jas. 3:15; Jude 1:19). This is man living under the control of the fleshly passions, the sensual and depraved part of man in contrast with the rational part (Gal. 5:19-21; Rom. 1:29-32; 1Cor. 6:9-11; Col. 3:5-10). He is the animal man as opposed to the spiritual man. He has no sense of spiritual values and no relish for them. He counts it the highest wisdom to live for this world and carnal pleasures. Spiritual things are foolishness to him. He cannot see their supreme excellence due to animal appetites and being spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1-9).



2. The spiritual man. Greek: pneumatikos (GSN-<G4153>), spiritual (1Cor. 2:15; 3:1; 9:11; 14:37; 15:44-46; Gal. 6:1). This man is living under the control of the Holy Spirit and minds the things of the Spirit (Rom. 8:1-13; Gal. 5:16-26). He has the mind of Christ and discerns and esteems spiritual things above the sensual (1Cor. 2:15-16). He is a new creature and resurrected from death in trespasses and sins (2Cor. 5:17-18; Eph. 2:1-9; 4:22-24). The lower animal passions have been crucified (Rom. 8:12-13; Gal. 2:20; 5:24) and put off (Eph. 2:22-24; Col. 3:5-10).