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Qualifications For Rapture?

You presume that the tribulation is the wrath of God. But the events of the tribulation do not match the clearly defined wrath of God as mentioned in Rev. in fact Jesus himself was describing the tribulation of the saints in Math 24, mark 13 and luke 21. And promised the disciples that all who followed him would face tribulation.
John 16v
32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.
33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have TRIBULATION: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Tribulation simply means trouble and we are promised it as King's kids. There is no getting around it!

But THE Tribulation we are all talking about is not the ordinary run-of-the-mill tribulation we all experience. This is The time of Jacob's Trouble, such as the world has never seen before---Jesus says so. We, the Bride, the spotless Bride, will not experience it. No way does the Bridegroom place us in the way of wrath, or in the way of the Antichrist. That time is meant for the wicked and is a time set aside for God to finish with Israel.
 
i didnt say there wasnt any false person named the ac only that the church will be out of the way when the judgments from God. meaning either dead or taken to the lord. was noah not protected from the flood that killed all men? i guess he should have died then.
Noah wasn't out of the way, he lead the people, yes he was protected but he was also serving his mission here on earth!
 
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16

they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds. - Mark 13:26

Doesn't sound like "in a like manner" as in Acts 1 now does it? Just a few apostles saw Jesus depart "in the clouds" yet literalists claim (as above) Jesus to return with much fanfare. It's a contradiction so which is it?

And who is the "they" in Mark 13:26? Assuming Mark (Barnabus' nephew) to be saved & of the remnant of Israel- why does He say "they will see?" Why doesn't he say "you will see?"
 
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Tribulation simply means trouble and we are promised it as King's kids. There is no getting around it!

But THE Tribulation we are all talking about is not the ordinary run-of-the-mill tribulation we all experience. This is The time of Jacob's Trouble, such as the world has never seen before---Jesus says so. We, the Bride, the spotless Bride, will not experience it. No way does the Bridegroom place us in the way of wrath, or in the way of the Antichrist. That time is meant for the wicked and is a time set aside for God to finish with Israel.
Tell that to the Jews who died during the Holocaust, tell that to the family's in Japan who lost everything during the tsunami and quake oh must I go on?? were these tribulations not horrific? what could possibly qualify as worse? I don't know about you but I am hardly spotless and it would seem to me tribulation = strength and faith.
 
Tribulation simply means trouble and we are promised it as King's kids. There is no getting around it!

But THE Tribulation we are all talking about is not the ordinary run-of-the-mill tribulation we all experience. This is The time of Jacob's Trouble, such as the world has never seen before---Jesus says so. We, the Bride, the spotless Bride, will not experience it. No way does the Bridegroom place us in the way of wrath, or in the way of the Antichrist. That time is meant for the wicked and is a time set aside for God to finish with Israel.

Responding to this specifically:

We, the Bride, the spotless Bride, will not experience it. No way does the Bridegroom place us in the way of wrath, or in the way of the Antichrist.

Please read this thread about the two tribulations. Once you see that the wrath of God was poured out on Jerusalem, you'll understand why Jesus told His disciples to flee the city. That's the second tribulation mentioned in that thread (Matthew 24:21).

The first is Matthew 24:9, and this tribulation - the wrath of disbelieving men ("antichrists") - is the tribulation (John 16:33) the church continues to face all over the world today.

Hope this helps.
 
Those of us who are blessed to live here in North America often can not see the hell/tribulation of other parts of the world....

Watching the news is not the same as living it. Our brother, gone home, Cornelius saw tribulation first hand.
 
Those of us who are blessed to live here in North America often can not see the hell/tribulation of other parts of the world....

Watching the news is not the same as living it. Our brother, gone home, Cornelius saw tribulation first hand.

Indeed. There are three websites of which every Christian should be aware:

Jihad Watch

Persecution.com

Persecution News of Churches Persecuted & Christian Sufferings

Reading the stories of persecution against the church in other countries will break one's heart.

John 16:33 has never been truer than it is today.
 
Tribulation simply means trouble and we are promised it as King's kids. There is no getting around it!

But THE Tribulation we are all talking about is not the ordinary run-of-the-mill tribulation we all experience. This is The time of Jacob's Trouble, such as the world has never seen before---Jesus says so. We, the Bride, the spotless Bride, will not experience it. No way does the Bridegroom place us in the way of wrath, or in the way of the Antichrist. That time is meant for the wicked and is a time set aside for God to finish with Israel.
Alabaster why would Jesus bother warning his Diciples of the Anti-Christ if his people were not going to experience the wrath:


5 Jesus said to them: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 6 Many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and will deceive many. 7 When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 8 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in various places, and famines. These are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them. 10 And the gospel must first be preached to all nations. 11 Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit.
12 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child. Children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 13 Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
14 “When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’[a] standing where it[b] does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let no one on the housetop go down or enter the house to take anything out. 16 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 17 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 18 Pray that this will not take place in winter, 19 because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again. 20 “If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them. 21 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. 22 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.
 
Alabaster why would Jesus bother warning his Diciples of the Anti-Christ if his people were not going to experience the wrath...
Funny how people separated by 2,000 years think His words apply to both groups.

So... how COULD they apply to both groups?
 
Tribulation simply means trouble and we are promised it as King's kids. There is no getting around it!

But THE Tribulation we are all talking about is not the ordinary run-of-the-mill tribulation we all experience. This is The time of Jacob's Trouble, such as the world has never seen before---Jesus says so. We, the Bride, the spotless Bride, will not experience it. No way does the Bridegroom place us in the way of wrath, or in the way of the Antichrist. That time is meant for the wicked and is a time set aside for God to finish with Israel.
Alabaster, first of all you have an amazing wealth of biblical knowledge and advice and often times we pretty much agree on things except this subject, I certainly do not argue for the sake of argument and I don't want to pride myself for finding an answer to back up my claim but I am curious as to our divide. Maybe it is because I served in the Navy for 7 years and have a soldiers mentality and I often think if I would die for my country I would certainly die for my LORD and my belief. I don't understand the logic of the rapture in my heart I know there is no rapture, I may be wrong but maybe you can give describe or others can describe the reason in their heart why they believe in the rapture not so much from a biblical point.
 
Explained here:

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/pre-trib-post-trib-two-tribs-35634/

The reason the debate continues - I believe - over whether there will be a rapture of the church or wrath on Christians; whether such a rapture is pre-trib or post-trib, is because people don't realize the word "tribulation" is applied to two groups of people for two very different reasons.

It might explain why you and Alabaster are at an impasse.
I appreciate that thank you but I am looking at why they from the heart feel there is going to be a rapture, as I said I know in my heart that there is not going to be one and although it is hard to describe as I stated maybe it is my Soldiers mentality not a biblical reference but more of a personal reason.
 
Alabaster, first of all you have an amazing wealth of biblical knowledge and advice and often times we pretty much agree on things except this subject, I certainly do not argue for the sake of argument and I don't want to pride myself for finding an answer to back up my claim but I am curious as to our divide. Maybe it is because I served in the Navy for 7 years and have a soldiers mentality and I often think if I would die for my country I would certainly die for my LORD and my belief. I don't understand the logic of the rapture in my heart I know there is no rapture, I may be wrong but maybe you can give describe or others can describe the reason in their heart why they believe in the rapture not so much from a biblical point.

First of all, thank you for your personal comment, but I have yet so much to learn of God's word---I shall die still learning.

Now, let me ask---is God always logical, to you? Why must this be logical to your mind? Just how logical is the idea of
HARPAZO to anyone?

I believe simply that just as Noah and his family were lifted up and away in the flood, so shall the family of God, that precious Bride be lifted up and out of harm's way.


The loving Bridegroom would never allow His Bride to suffer what is intended for the wicked, at the hand of Satan. Nor would He allow His Bride to suffer at the hand of God.


Spiritually speaking, I find that tremendously logical.
 
Group 1: Believers in Christ's time.
Group 2: Believers today.

IOW: Odd how we all think that Revelation was speaking of things about to happen 2,000 years ago AND things about to happen today.

People don't understand that all through Scripture prophecy OFTEN has a near focus and a far focus for fulfillment.

It takes Holy Spirit to show us which is which.
 
People don't understand that all through Scripture prophecy OFTEN has a near focus and a far focus for fulfillment.

It takes Holy Spirit to show us which is which.
Ok, so is Revelation about things yet to come, or things that happened in the first century?

What is YOUR word from the Holy Spirit? I must say, I am unsure of why Christ would give believers then the idea that "these things will soon happen" if, by "soon", he meant over 2,000 years later.
 
Ok, so is Revelation about things yet to come, or things that happened in the first century?

What is YOUR word from the Holy Spirit? I must say, I am unsure of why Christ would give believers then the idea that "these things will soon happen" if, by "soon", he meant over 2,000 years later.

Why would you be unsure? I am sure that Jesus was giving a dual focus prophecy to those in His hearing---one that has a soon fulfillment, because He loves them and the same prophecy with a far fulfillment because once again, He loves us.

Do you not think that He knew that His words would be made available to this generation? Everything He ever is recorded as saying is intended for our ears as well.
 
I was think last night about how weak willed I am, and also the fact that I'm schizophrenic...

If the rapture weren't to occur I would be in bad shape if it weren't for God's strength...

I'm not sure one way or the other, but I do know the days will be shortened for the elect...
 
If God is believed, then Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 has at least nearly two alike repeats. Such as the O.T.- N.T. Even down to the Crucifion of Christ as in Heb. 6:6 the second time. And a old church rejection + a new church rejection. (Rev. 17:1-5 & Rev. 3:16)

Everything in Matt. 24 has at least one repeat! (unless stated that it does not) Christ came in person, He comes again in Person! The last thing seen were clouds & the first thing seen when He returns are clouds. Of angels? (satan even impersonates this as a preterist false Gospel)

And the Matt. 24:14's Gospel into all the world has got to have another repeat as it did go into all the world in Pauls day. And the Holy Spirit in Acts 2? It was a carbon copy of prophecy of Joel 2's repeat. And we also are seeing this even as we speak, in excelleration. See Peter with the prophecy comment in Acts 3:19... but read slowly! it tel's one [WHEN the Books are Cleared of sin]. See Dan. 12:1-2. And that is not yet, huh!

That is already too much, huh?:thumbsup And this is nothing personal, OK?

--Elijah
 
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