Quotes by Christian Heretic: Before we discuss the quotes, I am curious: why do you use the name "Christain Heretic"?
1) "This teaching you present came into existence not through the study of the Scripture or by the teaching of the Holy Spirit but rather as an accommodation by the traditional Church to garner favor with those whose faith is in the modern scientific view rather then the Truth God provided in the Scriptures and is little more then an attempt to pass off THEOLOGICAL DARWINISM as Truth. This teaching aptly demonstrates that when Truth is compromised the only losers are the faithful.
2) Think about it if we have no eternal soul then we are mere animals no better then an ape or an ox from which we must have evolved just like science says we did. As to our superiority on this planet it is simply a function of the size of our brain box and not the result of God Personally setting us above all other fleshly life forms. In addition if there is no life except this fleshly one and then total annihilation, just as our science tells us, then all we have is this life of the flesh so we best live it to its fullest.
3) This teaching is wrong on so many levels it is impossible to address all of them in this present medium. So I will make a couple of major points and call it a day.
4) The real culprit in this confusion is the man who translated the Scriptures into the Kings English. This man arbitrarily chose to translate the Hebrew and Greek word for spirit into two separate English words, SOUL and SPIRIT.
5) He used the word SPIRIT whenever he believed the text indicated the Scriptures were speaking about God or Heavenly Beings and he used the word SOUL whenever he believed the text was speaking about man or animals.
6) The use of two English words to translate the same Hebrew or Greek word has caused many to perceive a difference between Gods’ Eternal Spirit and the SOUL of man. This is the exact opposite of what the Scriptures teach.
7) THE FACT IS THAT THE SAME HEBREW AND GREEK WORDS ARE USED IN EVERY PLACE IN SCRIPTURE WHERE WE SEE EITHER SPIRIT OR SOUL IN THE ENGLISH TEXT. GOD WHO KNOWS SAW NO DIFFERENCE WHO ARE WE TO CALL HIM A LAIR."
MY COMMENTS:
Paragraph 1) I'm not sure what you mean by "Theological Darwinism". I am interested in the truth as derived from the Scriptures, that is, as close to the literal meaning of the copies of the originals as possible. So, can we not compare scripture with scripture, using as many tools as necessary; such as Bible Concordances, Lexicons, Encyclopedias, Commentaries?
2) It sounds as if you believe only humans are said to have (or be) souls. But, if that is true, what should I believe when I read that animals as well as man are living souls?
To verify this, one must use a concordance, looking up "nephesh"--Hebrew for "soul" in the Lexicon at the back. There will be listed all the different words the compilers of the KJV used for "soul." Many times, "life" and "creature" was used, even though "soul" is the real meaning.
For instance:
Gen. 1:21 "..and ever living creature (nephesh) that moveth.."
1:24 "..let the earth bring forth the living creature (nephesh).."
2:19 "..what ever Adam called every living creature (nephesh).."
9:10 "And with every living creature (nephesh) that is with you.." etc.
See also, Gen. 9:15,16; Lev. 11:46.
Many, many times the KJ translators in the OT used "life" instead of "soul." Maybe it was because they couldn't understand that the soul is connected with the blood:
Lev. 17:11 "For the life (nephesh) of the flesh is in the blood.."
17:14 "For it is the life (nephesh) of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life (nephesh) thereof"
17:14 "Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life (nephesh) of all flesh is the
blood thereof.."
And others.
It is not science who can tell what is beyond the grave, it is God's word.
What should one believe concerning the state of the dead according to these passages?
Gen.3:19 "..you are dust and to dust shall you return."
Job 10:9 "..unto dust shall you cause me to return."
Psa. 90:3 "..you cause me to return to dust."
Eccl. 12:7 "Man goes to his age-abiding home, and the dust returns to the earth as it was,
And the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Death is "sleep"---figurative:
Job 14:10-12; Psa. 13:3; Jer. 51:57; Dan. 12:1-2; John 11:11-14; 1 Cor. 15:16-18, 51-57;
1 Thes.4:13-18.
In the grave, there is no knowledge, no remembrance, no praise:
Psa. 6:5 "For in death there is no remembrance of thee; in the grave who shall give thee thanks."
30:9 "What profit will there be in my blood when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? Shall it declare thy truth?"
115:17 "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence."
Eccl. 8:5 "For the living know that they shall die: bu the dead know not anything.."
Isa. 38:18 "For the grave cannot praise thee; death cannot celebrate thee.."
John wrote this some years after Jesus ascension to heaven: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." Jn.3:13.
And Peter tells us in Acts 2:34 "For David is not ascended into the heavens.."
So, should I not believe the above? That death is the opposite of life. Only Christ Jesus, the Son of man, has ascended into heaven. Not David or any other OT saint, or NT saint.
Now, the wonderful truth is, RESURRECTION is the cure for death. God knows every intricate detail about all humans and each will be resurrected at their proper time and place.
Now, its important to know, "resurrection" doesn't mean "immortality."
While I covered this in my previous post, I'll just sumarize it:
Man is a living soul. SOUL is said to be the consciousness, the feelings, produced by the breath of life vitalizing the body.
Many times man is called a "soul" in the scriptures: Gen.12:5; Acts 2:41,43; 7:14, 27:37 etc.
When man dies, all his feelings, memory, knowledge, etc die too.
Many times the soul is said to die or be dead:
Lev. 24:17 "And he that killeth any man (nephesh) shall surely be put to death."
Num. 23:10 "Let me (nephesh) die the death of the righteous.
Ezek. 18:4 "..the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
4), 5) & 6): I researched my Young's Concordance, and honestly, I don't find what you have said in these 3 paragraphs. What English version are your refering to?
I found that in the KJV OT every time "soul" is in the verse, it is from "nephesh", save one (Job 30:15).
And, the same goes for "spirit." Every verse where "spirit" was the translated word, it is from "ruach" (spirit, wind), save two. And these two (Job 26:4 and Prov. 20:27) translated it from "neshamah" meaning "breath."
Also, similarly for the NT: the translators were consistent: All places "soul" is used is from "psuche"
"soul"--Greek; and all places "spirit" is used it is from "pneuma", "spirit" in Greek.
7) Again, what version are you referring to?
Young's Concordance is based on the Received Text that was the basis for the KJV, and what you are saying in this paragraph is not true for the KJV and many, many other English versions.
I'm sure God knows the difference between a man's soul and his spirit,and the Scriptures are consistent on their use. God is certainly not a LAIR or is it LIAR?
Well, CH, may this wet your desire to dig into the scriptures using a concordance and other tools, to gain the blessing of seeing how the whole Bible is in harmony.
1) "This teaching you present came into existence not through the study of the Scripture or by the teaching of the Holy Spirit but rather as an accommodation by the traditional Church to garner favor with those whose faith is in the modern scientific view rather then the Truth God provided in the Scriptures and is little more then an attempt to pass off THEOLOGICAL DARWINISM as Truth. This teaching aptly demonstrates that when Truth is compromised the only losers are the faithful.
2) Think about it if we have no eternal soul then we are mere animals no better then an ape or an ox from which we must have evolved just like science says we did. As to our superiority on this planet it is simply a function of the size of our brain box and not the result of God Personally setting us above all other fleshly life forms. In addition if there is no life except this fleshly one and then total annihilation, just as our science tells us, then all we have is this life of the flesh so we best live it to its fullest.
3) This teaching is wrong on so many levels it is impossible to address all of them in this present medium. So I will make a couple of major points and call it a day.
4) The real culprit in this confusion is the man who translated the Scriptures into the Kings English. This man arbitrarily chose to translate the Hebrew and Greek word for spirit into two separate English words, SOUL and SPIRIT.
5) He used the word SPIRIT whenever he believed the text indicated the Scriptures were speaking about God or Heavenly Beings and he used the word SOUL whenever he believed the text was speaking about man or animals.
6) The use of two English words to translate the same Hebrew or Greek word has caused many to perceive a difference between Gods’ Eternal Spirit and the SOUL of man. This is the exact opposite of what the Scriptures teach.
7) THE FACT IS THAT THE SAME HEBREW AND GREEK WORDS ARE USED IN EVERY PLACE IN SCRIPTURE WHERE WE SEE EITHER SPIRIT OR SOUL IN THE ENGLISH TEXT. GOD WHO KNOWS SAW NO DIFFERENCE WHO ARE WE TO CALL HIM A LAIR."
MY COMMENTS:
Paragraph 1) I'm not sure what you mean by "Theological Darwinism". I am interested in the truth as derived from the Scriptures, that is, as close to the literal meaning of the copies of the originals as possible. So, can we not compare scripture with scripture, using as many tools as necessary; such as Bible Concordances, Lexicons, Encyclopedias, Commentaries?
2) It sounds as if you believe only humans are said to have (or be) souls. But, if that is true, what should I believe when I read that animals as well as man are living souls?
To verify this, one must use a concordance, looking up "nephesh"--Hebrew for "soul" in the Lexicon at the back. There will be listed all the different words the compilers of the KJV used for "soul." Many times, "life" and "creature" was used, even though "soul" is the real meaning.
For instance:
Gen. 1:21 "..and ever living creature (nephesh) that moveth.."
1:24 "..let the earth bring forth the living creature (nephesh).."
2:19 "..what ever Adam called every living creature (nephesh).."
9:10 "And with every living creature (nephesh) that is with you.." etc.
See also, Gen. 9:15,16; Lev. 11:46.
Many, many times the KJ translators in the OT used "life" instead of "soul." Maybe it was because they couldn't understand that the soul is connected with the blood:
Lev. 17:11 "For the life (nephesh) of the flesh is in the blood.."
17:14 "For it is the life (nephesh) of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life (nephesh) thereof"
17:14 "Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life (nephesh) of all flesh is the
blood thereof.."
And others.
It is not science who can tell what is beyond the grave, it is God's word.
What should one believe concerning the state of the dead according to these passages?
Gen.3:19 "..you are dust and to dust shall you return."
Job 10:9 "..unto dust shall you cause me to return."
Psa. 90:3 "..you cause me to return to dust."
Eccl. 12:7 "Man goes to his age-abiding home, and the dust returns to the earth as it was,
And the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Death is "sleep"---figurative:
Job 14:10-12; Psa. 13:3; Jer. 51:57; Dan. 12:1-2; John 11:11-14; 1 Cor. 15:16-18, 51-57;
1 Thes.4:13-18.
In the grave, there is no knowledge, no remembrance, no praise:
Psa. 6:5 "For in death there is no remembrance of thee; in the grave who shall give thee thanks."
30:9 "What profit will there be in my blood when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? Shall it declare thy truth?"
115:17 "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence."
Eccl. 8:5 "For the living know that they shall die: bu the dead know not anything.."
Isa. 38:18 "For the grave cannot praise thee; death cannot celebrate thee.."
John wrote this some years after Jesus ascension to heaven: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." Jn.3:13.
And Peter tells us in Acts 2:34 "For David is not ascended into the heavens.."
So, should I not believe the above? That death is the opposite of life. Only Christ Jesus, the Son of man, has ascended into heaven. Not David or any other OT saint, or NT saint.
Now, the wonderful truth is, RESURRECTION is the cure for death. God knows every intricate detail about all humans and each will be resurrected at their proper time and place.
Now, its important to know, "resurrection" doesn't mean "immortality."
While I covered this in my previous post, I'll just sumarize it:
Man is a living soul. SOUL is said to be the consciousness, the feelings, produced by the breath of life vitalizing the body.
Many times man is called a "soul" in the scriptures: Gen.12:5; Acts 2:41,43; 7:14, 27:37 etc.
When man dies, all his feelings, memory, knowledge, etc die too.
Many times the soul is said to die or be dead:
Lev. 24:17 "And he that killeth any man (nephesh) shall surely be put to death."
Num. 23:10 "Let me (nephesh) die the death of the righteous.
Ezek. 18:4 "..the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
4), 5) & 6): I researched my Young's Concordance, and honestly, I don't find what you have said in these 3 paragraphs. What English version are your refering to?
I found that in the KJV OT every time "soul" is in the verse, it is from "nephesh", save one (Job 30:15).
And, the same goes for "spirit." Every verse where "spirit" was the translated word, it is from "ruach" (spirit, wind), save two. And these two (Job 26:4 and Prov. 20:27) translated it from "neshamah" meaning "breath."
Also, similarly for the NT: the translators were consistent: All places "soul" is used is from "psuche"
"soul"--Greek; and all places "spirit" is used it is from "pneuma", "spirit" in Greek.
7) Again, what version are you referring to?
Young's Concordance is based on the Received Text that was the basis for the KJV, and what you are saying in this paragraph is not true for the KJV and many, many other English versions.
I'm sure God knows the difference between a man's soul and his spirit,and the Scriptures are consistent on their use. God is certainly not a LAIR or is it LIAR?
Well, CH, may this wet your desire to dig into the scriptures using a concordance and other tools, to gain the blessing of seeing how the whole Bible is in harmony.