Question About Mary

[WIP]

Something that seems to be forgotten is that I am not totally at odds with the Catholic church, at least I don't think I am. Yes, there are some doctrinal things that I have differences about and there are some things that I am unsure about but I am not hostile toward the Catholic church.

When I first became a member on CFnet, there was a ban against discussing Catholic doctrine. The reason for the ban was (before I joined CFnet) because the discussions literally always turned sour and even mean and so it became necessary to end the hostilities.

I felt that it was important to be able to hear the Catholic point of view so over the years, I have been asking CFnet to discontinue the bans on discussing Catholic doctrine and so here we are, 17 pages into an endless childish debate that is anything but civil.

In my view, although we have various doctrinal differences, we are all Christian brothers and sisters. I believe the Church of Christ has been fractured and even corrupted over the centuries and that includes the Catholic church. We should be working toward reunification rather than continuing the haughty, hostile, and even nasty attitudes.

Peter gave this instruction.
"Sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;" (1 Peter 3:15 NKJV) He didn't say to beat them into submission.

Paul also gave instructions about this.
"Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:29-32 NKJV)

I have not witnessed much kindness or tenderheartedness from either side of the debate in this thread. Instead, what I've been reading has been more like school children arguing on a playground and it does anything but build up in Christian love.

Unfortunately, Mungo is right. Closing this thread will not help as the antics will just move to another one.

 

[Niblo]

Something that seems to be forgotten is that I am not totally at odds with the Catholic church, at least I don't think I am. Yes, there are some doctrinal things that I have differences about and there are some things that I am unsure about but I am not hostile toward the Catholic church.

When I first became a member on CFnet, there was a ban against discussing Catholic doctrine. The reason for the ban was (before I joined CFnet) because the discussions literally always turned sour and even mean and so it became necessary to end the hostilities.

I felt that it was important to be able to hear the Catholic point of view so over the years, I have been asking CFnet to discontinue the bans on discussing Catholic doctrine and so here we are, 17 pages into an endless childish debate that is anything but civil.

In my view, although we have various doctrinal differences, we are all Christian brothers and sisters. I believe the Church of Christ has been fractured and even corrupted over the centuries and that includes the Catholic church. We should be working toward reunification rather than continuing the haughty, hostile, and even nasty attitudes.

Peter gave this instruction.
"Sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;" (1 Peter 3:15 NKJV) He didn't say to beat them into submission.

Paul also gave instructions about this.
"Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:29-32 NKJV)

I have not witnessed much kindness or tenderheartedness from either side of the debate in this thread. Instead, what I've been reading has been more like school children arguing on a playground and it does anything but build up in Christian love.

Unfortunately, Mungo is right. Closing this thread will not help as the antics will just move to another one.

Bang on!

 

[God Is My Judge]

I don't know what you're talking about here. I have not been debating this with you. If you're attempting to troll me into engaging in a debate, it isn't going to happen so there's no towel to be thrown in as you

Is this a debate forum? I'm not trolling you, I am replying to you because you are contributing to the debate. You put in your 2 cents and I put in my redemption which was bought and paid for by Christ. You lost your 2 cents because you reject what makes sense. I wear my heart on my sleeve. I walk the walk and TALK the TALK.

No gun is put to your head that you post your opinions. At least I hope not. Lol! How can I be trolling you when this is an open debate???Don't try to cry victim, I didn't do anything wrong to you by being part of the debate. That shows me you are threatened by me. You wouldn't be threatened by a lie, that you call friend. Hence, why you try project untruths about me to appear like a victim. You're a victim of your own lie which you stand for against the Truth of God. Nothing more and nothing less. You try to have a good day.

 

[God Is My Judge]

Something that seems to be forgotten is that I am not totally at odds with the Catholic church, at least I don't think I am. Yes, there are some doctrinal things that I have differences about and there are some things that I am unsure about but I am not hostile toward the Catholic church.

When I first became a member on CFnet, there was a ban against discussing Catholic doctrine. The reason for the ban was (before I joined CFnet) because the discussions literally always turned sour and even mean and so it became necessary to end the hostilities.

I felt that it was important to be able to hear the Catholic point of view so over the years, I have been asking CFnet to discontinue the bans on discussing Catholic doctrine and so here we are, 17 pages into an endless childish debate that is anything but civil.

In my view, although we have various doctrinal differences, we are all Christian brothers and sisters. I believe the Church of Christ has been fractured and even corrupted over the centuries and that includes the Catholic church. We should be working toward reunification rather than continuing the haughty, hostile, and even nasty attitudes.

Peter gave this instruction.
"Sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;" (1 Peter 3:15 NKJV) He didn't say to beat them into submission.

Paul also gave instructions about this.
"Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:29-32 NKJV)

I have not witnessed much kindness or tenderheartedness from either side of the debate in this thread. Instead, what I've been reading has been more like school children arguing on a playground and it does anything but build up in Christian love.

Unfortunately, Mungo is right. Closing this thread will not help as the antics will just move to another one.

Oh please. Stop crying crocodile tears. I've read your post. You are no wallflower. You just don't like the truth bombs being dropped in here. News flash.... Catholics don't like them either. You're all too proud. Humble pie can only be digested by those who aim to grow the wiser from correction. No one is above correction but God! That is the problem with selfserving men, too proud!

The problem is the direction of your affection, it's toward self. Put self aside and then you will realize humble pie is good! Every Christian eats it at some point or another and grows more in love from it. Ask Cepha, very humble man.

What I share is all naturally divine, no additives, artificial flavor or preservatives. Everything I share is straight from the original. Probably because I love humble pie!" Correct a wise man and he will love you for it and grow the wiser. Correct a fool and he will hate you, you will only receive his spurn and hostility."If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen as they say. Leave the debate, let others enjoy it.

 

[God Is My Judge]

WIP, maybe you are a last minute holdout. Maybe, because some Catholic doctrine didn't make sense you simply rejected it. Not that the other doctrine made sense either that you adopted. Nevertheless, here we are. It is your time to shine. If you show you can recognize truth now and stand for it, all else is a wash. Don't be angry if you didn't see what I see -first.

Show yourself approved and share your testimony. Many Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants need help. You haven't proved me wrong, no one has. You have to admit, what I share can bring unity and put an end to what you call endless debate. Do an about face and be in the peace of God. Wisdom first chastsies and you feel well, not so good. But once love is perfected in you, the peace of God calms the stormy seas. And when new storms come you take the Lord's hand without doubt and walk upon the waters of the deep. You still have time.

 

[God Is My Judge]

Bang on!

No not really. Simply what your itching ears want to hear.

 

[God Is My Judge]

What is going on in Rome? Date 10/7/22. Remember the day is put before the month in Italy. I think it's relevant because of some stuff concering Rome I alluded to. Not saying its begun, too soon to tell. In any event, just keeping my eyes peeled. If anyone has any news please share. Family in Sicily but not Rome. Not much news gets out of Italy since the manmade pandemic. Phone service is sketchy sometimes there is blocked internet blamed on Russia etc....

BREAKING! MORE FOOTAGE FROM ROME, 4 LARGE FIRES TURBULANCE

⁣BREAKING! ROME ON FIRE! More footage apparently there are 4 large fires across the city.. 8 years left to restructure the share of the earth its takes 10 years ... we been here before , buckle up soon it will be your ci

brandnewtube.com

 

[God Is My Judge]

Don't be too disturbed by the Ratzinger thingy at the end. He will be making his way up to the cross - calvary in repentance. Jorge however is going to perdition. Too bad Vigano can't get out of Italy. Well, I'll try to scour alternative sites for more info. Oh! where I am at, a lot of the vaxxed are dying and being hospitalized. People very close to home succumbing to various illnesses and anomalies.

 

[jaybo]

How do you know it was clearly Joseph that raised Jesus?

Because he was Jesus' father. In NT times, sons were raised by their fathers; the women "kept house".

John 6:41-42, "Then the Jews who were hostile to Jesus began complaining about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven,” and they said, “Isn’t this Jesus the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

Matthew 2:13, "After they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Get up, take the child and his mother and flee to Egypt, and stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to look for the child to kill him.” This would never be told to someone who wasn't His father.

Luke 2:4, "So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family line of David." This would never be required by someone who wasn't His father.

Luke 2:16, "So they hurried off and located Mary and Joseph, and found the baby lying in a manger." They were together at Jesus' birth.

Luke 2:22, "Now when the time came for their purification according to the law of Moses, Joseph and Mary brought Jesus up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord". This would never be required by someone who wasn't His father.

Luke 2:39, "So when Joseph and Mary had performed everything according to the law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own town of Nazareth." This would never be required by someone who wasn't His father.

Luke 4:22, "All were speaking well of him, and were amazed at the gracious words coming out of his mouth. They said, “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” They knew Jesus as Joseph's son.

John 1:45, "Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the law, and the prophets also wrote about—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

John 6:42a, "and they said, “Isn’t this Jesus the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know?"

Is that enough Scriptural evidence for you? If it isn't, then who else was his father (on Earth, obviously).

 

[God Is My Judge]

What is going on in Rome? Date 10/7/22. Remember the day is put before the month in Italy. I think it's relevant because of some stuff concering Rome I alluded to. Not saying its begun, too soon to tell. In any event, just keeping my eyes peeled. If anyone has any news please share. Family in Sicily but not Rome. Not much news gets out of Italy since the manmade pandemic. Phone service is sketchy sometimes there is blocked internet blamed on Russia etc....

BREAKING! MORE FOOTAGE FROM ROME, 4 LARGE FIRES TURBULANCE

⁣BREAKING! ROME ON FIRE! More footage apparently there are 4 large fires across the city.. 8 years left to restructure the share of the earth its takes 10 years ... we been here before , buckle up soon it will be your ci

brandnewtube.com

Been looking, could just be some more wild fires. Could even be an old video with a new date. Can't seem to find anything to verify this.

 

[God Is My Judge]

Because he was Jesus' father. In NT times, sons were raised by their fathers; the women "kept house".

John 6:41-42, "Then the Jews who were hostile to Jesus began complaining about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven,” and they said, “Isn’t this Jesus the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

Matthew 2:13, "After they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Get up, take the child and his mother and flee to Egypt, and stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to look for the child to kill him.” This would never be told to someone who wasn't His father.

Luke 2:4, "So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family line of David." This would never be required by someone who wasn't His father.

Luke 2:16, "So they hurried off and located Mary and Joseph, and found the baby lying in a manger." They were together at Jesus' birth.

Luke 2:22, "Now when the time came for their purification according to the law of Moses, Joseph and Mary brought Jesus up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord". This would never be required by someone who wasn't His father.

Luke 2:39, "So when Joseph and Mary had performed everything according to the law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own town of Nazareth." This would never be required by someone who wasn't His father.

Luke 4:22, "All were speaking well of him, and were amazed at the gracious words coming out of his mouth. They said, “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” They knew Jesus as Joseph's son.

John 1:45, "Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the law, and the prophets also wrote about—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

John 6:42a, "and they said, “Isn’t this Jesus the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know?"

Is that enough Scriptural evidence for you? If it isn't, then who else was his father (on Earth, obviously).

Oh please. No one is saying Joseph didn't have a hand is raising Jesus. But at some point Joseph was no longer around. That in itself shows the actual reason why John the Beloved was commissioned to care for his mother, Christ too had to go about His Father's business which concluded with this last tenet established for His church- taking Mary in our home- heart and church. Now I suppose you will say we were NOT told to be of one mind in Christ? What is said to one is said to all! Each is a member of the same body in which Christ is the head. Oy vey!

 

[WIP]

Is this a debate forum? I'm not trolling you, I am replying to you because you are contributing to the debate. You put in your 2 cents and I put in my redemption which was bought and paid for by Christ. You lost your 2 cents because you reject what makes sense. I wear my heart on my sleeve. I walk the walk and TALK the TALK.

No gun is put to your head that you post your opinions. At least I hope not. Lol! How can I be trolling you when this is an open debate???Don't try to cry victim, I didn't do anything wrong to you by being part of the debate. That shows me you are threatened by me. You wouldn't be threatened by a lie, that you call friend. Hence, why you try project untruths about me to appear like a victim. You're a victim of your own lie which you stand for against the Truth of God. Nothing more and nothing less. You try to have a good day.

But you inferred something I did not say or imply so I do not know what you're getting at. Whether this is or is not a debate thread is of no importance to me. I do not debate. Rather, I asked a question and got an answer. Did I agree with the answer 100%. No but I took it for food for thought. I didn't even counter with my own opinion or try to refute the answer. I have not engaged in or requested a debate.

I do not like debates because debates invoke too much hostility. Those involved become more concerned about wining the debate, getting the upper hand, or putting down their opponents than they are about finding truth. I'm more interested in the truth of Scripture than I am in winning any debate.

 

[WIP]

WIP, maybe you are a last minute holdout. Maybe, because some Catholic doctrine didn't make sense you simply rejected it. Not that the other doctrine made sense either that you adopted. Nevertheless, here we are. It is your time to shine. If you show you can recognize truth now and stand for it, all else is a wash. Don't be angry if you didn't see what I see -first.

Show yourself approved and share your testimony. Many Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants need help. You haven't proved me wrong, no one has. You have to admit, what I share can bring unity and put an end to what you call endless debate. Do an about face and be in the peace of God. Wisdom first chastsies and you feel well, not so good. But once love is perfected in you, the peace of God calms the stormy seas. And when new storms come you take the Lord's hand without doubt and walk upon the waters of the deep. You still have time.

As far as proving you wrong, that is not my responsibility. I'll just leave that up to the Holy Spirit. God does not need or want attorneys or judges to debate His providence. Jesus said His disciples will be His witnesses. (Acts 1:8) A witness does not debate but rather speaks the truth as he knows it.

You are right that I have rejected and/or questioned certain aspects of Catholic doctrine. I also reject and/or question certain aspects of Protestant doctrine. Unlike you, I am not convinced and probably never will be convinced that I know or will know all truth on this side of heaven. But, the truth that I do believe I must know, is that Without faith, belief, and trust in Jesus I am condemned already but He who died and rose again for the redemption of my sins is the one and only way by which I might be saved and that is a promise from God Himself. There is my testimony.

 

[God Is My Judge]

But you inferred something I did not say or imply so I do not know what you're getting at. Whether this is or is not a debate thread is of no importance to me. I do not debate. Rather, I asked a question and got an answer. Did I agree with the answer 100%. No but I took it for food for thought. I didn't even counter with my own opinion or try to refute the answer. I have not engaged in or requested a debate.

I do not like debates because debates invoke too much hostility. Those involved become more concerned about wining the debate, getting the upper hand, or putting down their opponents than they are about finding truth. I'm more interested in the truth of Scripture than I am in winning any debate.

Yeah, I do like winning. I do not run my race to lose but to win. I do love a victor's crown. Glory to God in the highest!

 

[God Is My Judge]

As far as proving you wrong, that is not my responsibility. I'll just leave that up to the Holy Spirit. God does not need or want attorneys or judges to debate His providence. Jesus said His disciples will be His witnesses. (Acts 1:8) A witness does not debate but rather speaks the truth as he knows it.

You are right that I have rejected and/or questioned certain aspects of Catholic doctrine. I also reject and/or question certain aspects of Protestant doctrine. Unlike you, I am not convinced and probably never will be convinced that I know or will know all truth on this side of heaven. But, the truth that I do believe I must know, is that Without faith, belief, and trust in Jesus I am condemned already but He who died and rose again for the redemption of my sins is the one and only way by which I might be saved and that is a promise from God Himself. There is my testimony.

I am giving answer as to the faith that is in me. Debate, for me there is no debate I know I will always win. But I must argue my points so if by chance a passerby- may gain. I am quite encumbered with a key that has been placed upon my shoulder. With great honor comes great responsibility. Sadly, I do not make a lot of friends. the few I do make are quality though. That quality over quantity thing.

Luke 8:10
He replied, "The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, 'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

How true is that! Even when unraveling the riddles of Wisdom before your eyes, you still cannot see. Carry on.

 

[WIP]

I am giving answer as to the faith that is in me. Debate, for me there is no debate I know I will always win. But I must argue my points so if by chance a passerby- may gain. I am quite encumbered with a key that has been placed upon my shoulder. With great honor comes great responsibility. Sadly, I do not make a lot of friends. the few I do make are quality though. That quality over quantity thing.

Luke 8:10
He replied, "The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, 'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

How true is that! Even when unraveling the riddles of Wisdom before your eyes, you still cannot see. Carry on.

Perhaps you could make more friends if you were to take a bit of the chip off your shoulders and be a little more polite with people as Scriptures instruct us to be. Just a thought.

 

[God Is My Judge]

Perhaps you could make more friends if you were to take a bit of the chip off your shoulders and be a little more polite with people as Scriptures instruct us to be. Just a thought.

Lol! Confidence is not a lack politeness. Actually, I have only the Rock the Builders rejected- His knowledge , upon my shoulders. I answer to no one but Him. I will not alter my personality that He fashioned in me. You are the only one with a chip on your shoulder. You are the only one who has not humbled himself before truth. I take no prisoners. When Christ said cut the heads off of false doctrine, I am no Saul. I make friends with those who love truth. If that was a majority then the world would not be in such a state. You want me to cowtail to you is all. Not happening. You haven't presented any truth, especially with your not " giving much thought of Mary." You want a swell harp Theology, a gentle soothing approach, not happening when you're as hard as stone. I'm a percussionist when it comes to stones. Admonishment is not- tickle you with a feather it is as saint Paul says- " I convicted him to his face". As for my humbleness, I don't bow down to false doctrine, never! Christ is fighting you with the sword of His mouth just as His Revelation says. It cuts because it is not a comforting embrace. There is a place for my approach in Christ when the case is false doctrine.

 

[Mungo]

Lol! Confidence is not a lack politeness. Actually, I have only the Rock the Builders rejected- His knowledge , upon my shoulders. I answer to no one but Him. I will not alter my personality that He fashioned in me. You are the only one with a chip on your shoulder. You are the only one who has not humbled himself before truth. I take no prisoners. When Christ said cut the heads off of false doctrine, I am no Saul. I make friends with those who love truth. If that was a majority then the world would not be in such a state. You want me to cowtail to you is all. Not happening. You haven't presented any truth, especially with your not " giving much thought of Mary." You want a swell harp Theology, a gentle soothing approach, not happening when you're as hard as stone. I'm a percussionist when it comes to stones. Admonishment is not- tickle you with a feather it is as saint Paul says- " I convicted him to his face". As for my humbleness, I don't bow down to false doctrine, never! Christ is fighting you with the sword of His mouth just as His Revelation says. It cuts because it is not a comforting embrace. There is a place for my approach in Christ when the case is false doctrine.

You are getting too personal here.
RULE 1.3: Use self control and focus on reconcilliation when discussing differences. Address the issue, not the person. Do not make derogatory personal remarks or you will be removed from the thread.

 

[jaybo]

Oh please. No one is saying Joseph didn't have a hand is raising Jesus. But at some point Joseph was no longer around. That in itself shows the actual reason why John the Beloved was commissioned to care for his mother, Christ too had to go about His Father's business which concluded with this last tenet established for His church- taking Mary in our home- heart and church. Now I suppose you will say we were NOT told to be of one mind in Christ? What is said to one is said to all! Each is a member of the same body in which Christ is the head. Oy vey!

Where in the Bible does it say that Joseph was no longer around? He was present and acting as Jesus father until he (Jesus) went out on His own (at which point fathers had done their task).

Claiming "that in itself shows the actual reason why John the Beloved was commissioned to care for his mother" has no authentic basis.

Saying that "Now I suppose you will say we were NOT told to be of one mind in Christ? What is said to one is said to all! Each is a member of the same body in which Christ is the head." is challenging my Christian faith. Why must you resort to slander? Is that Christian behavior according to you?

As Mungo wrote to you...

You are getting too personal here.
RULE 1.3: Use self control and focus on reconciliation when discussing differences. Address the issue, not the person. Do not make derogatory personal remarks or you will be removed from the thread.

 

[Mungo]

Because he was Jesus' father. In NT times, sons were raised by their fathers; the women "kept house".

Do you have any scriptural evidence for that claim?