Bible Study Question: Did Jesus Christ Have Two Natures?

[Chopper]

To understand Adam we need to see Adam as Paul presents Adam in 1 Cor. 15:42-46.

Adam, the natural man, was literally "bound" with dishonor, weakness and corruption in his natural body which body was "bound" for death, with the intents of a Permanent Spiritual Body, a Second Man, A LAST ADAM. Paul describes this as Gods Way, first the natural, then the Spiritual.

Even the scriptures themselves are put together in this way, first the natural, then the Spiritual.

Jesus, God Himself in the flesh, conformed to this standard by having a natural body which DIED, and then a Glorified Body. The "exception" standard with Jesus is that He Had No sin, no corruption, no dishonor, no weakness, because we are talking God Himself in flesh here. There is the difference.

There is a notion that God had to have a death sacrifice in order to save us. This is a false notion. The entire exercises of Jesus' death, shedding of blood, glorification, is the construct of the FINAL SPIRITUAL BODY, which Body we ALL who believe have our part in. It is the account of His Body.

Hebrews 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

With God, it was not just 'all talk no action' on His Part. Just as we are formed in a natural body, bound for death, on our way to His Body, God Himself took part in this matter, Himself, being a natural man, dying a very horrendous but DIVINELY PLANNED death, and a likewise Glorious Resurrection.

IT is problematic for us to perceive, presently, our part in His Body. It is presently HIDDEN, Purposefully, Divinely hidden. We do not see the 'unveiling' of the completed Body until it's completed and ALL THE COMPONENTS are likewise completed.

Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Hebrews 11:40
God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

In short, there is a Divine Construction Project that has been going on, since Day 1 of mankind.

O my friend. I want to believe you because I have such a high regard for your Spirit induced wisdom and I honor you in my heart. My problem is, I just can't bring my heart/mind into believing that Christ Jesus, the very God had a human nature alongside His Divine Nature. Being God in the flesh, He didn't need it, and I don't see in the Scriptures any statement that He had a "man nature"

At His temptation with Satan in the wilderness, I think Satan thought as many Theologians do, that Jesus had a man nature and could be drawn away from obedience to His Father. Satan was wrong. At Jesus' baptism by John the Baptist, the Holy Spirit....Matthew 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him."

As a result, Jesus was Spirit filled, and the only reason that I've heard of, that Jesus needed a human nature was to experience temptations that we would face and He sinned not. He didn't sin because He was sinless, as far as I'm concerned He didn't even have a man nature, Adam nature, or human nature. He was God.

If anyone shows me clear Scripture that indicates that Christ had a human nature, then I'll agree.

 

[smaller]

Jesus wasn't human Chopper? Really?

Phil. 2:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[Jim Parker]

If anyone shows me clear Scripture that indicates that Christ had a human nature, then I'll agree.

Heb 2:14-17
Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Jesus had to be like us in all things "All things" includes our human nature as God originally created it. He had to be a complete human being, with a "human nature" in order to destroy the one who who had the power of death. (the devil)

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man's obedience many will be made righteous.

Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

A man brought death to all men so a man, who had not sinned and who had not earned a death, was necessary to bring righteousness and life.

If Christ had only a divine nature and no human nature then He would have been God, who cannot die, masquerading as a man and pretending to die. That would have accomplished exactly nothing.


When scripture speaks of "nature" it is not referring to the same thing as our modern term "human nature." The modern term refers to our shortcomings, our tendency to err, and to sin.

Theologically, there are only two natures: divine and created. God (in trinity) alone is divine. Man and all the universe is created.
Jesus is both divine and created.
As the Logos, He is eternal God. (divinity) He is the Son of God
AS Jesus of Nazareth, He is a created being born of a woman.
As Christ He is Divinity (Logos and Son of God) and creature. (Son of man)

iakov the fool

 

[Chopper]

That is incorrect.
God created Adam.
Adam was the first Human Being.
Adam's nature was being in the Image and likeness of God. (Gen 1:27)
God said he was good. (Gen 1:31)
Adam's nature was damaged by his disobedience. Prior to his disobedience he was innocent. (Gen 2:25) After his disobedience, he lost his innocence and became aware of the enticement of the lust of the flesh. (Gen 3:7)

Adam did not have the propensity to sin because he was innocent.
He did have free will which means that he had the potential (not propensity) to sin. (Otherwise God could have simply prevented him from eating the forbidden fruit or have removed any opportunity for disobedience from the garden.)

Adam was enticed by Eve, who had been enticed by Satan, to eat the forbidden fruit and, as a result of that act, he became aware of the existence of evil. Now he knew evil, where as, before, he knew only God Who is Good.
Now to the potential to sin was added the propensity to sin.

That is what man was created for; to know God.
We have no need to know evil for in evil is death.
We were created to know God in whom alone is life.

iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

Adam, before disobedience and after is a very deep theological subject. I appreciate your thinking Jim. I was using the word propensity as Webster defines it....propensity - to acquire property; desire of possession.

 

[Chopper]

Jesus wasn't human Chopper? Really?

Phil. 2:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Where did you get that Jesus wasn't human? Jesus had a human body thru Mary giving birth to Him. The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and Jesus was conceived. We have the Holy Spirit, we have Jesus with a divine nature, with ONLY a human body, not a human nature. I feel that to say that Christ Jesus, the Son of God, had a human nature is to contaminate His holiness. Again, is there clear biblical proof of a human nature?

 

[Soul man]

Where did you get that Jesus wasn't human? Jesus had a human body thru Mary giving birth to Him. The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and Jesus was conceived. We have the Holy Spirit, we have Jesus with a divine nature, with ONLY a human body, not a human nature. I feel that to say that Christ Jesus, the Son of God, had a human nature is to contaminate His holiness. Again, is there clear biblical proof of a human nature?

If I may add something here that I have wanted to relate for awhile in this discussion.
There really is no human nature, there isThe nature of God and the Satan sin nature.
Seeing all in Adam or all in Christ is really all the scriptures show us.
Humanity is in one or the other, my personal understanding is we do not go in and out of either one. It is psychology or the like that coined the term human nature, it is not in scripture, bless you Chopper enjoyed the topic and your imput.

 

[smaller]

Where did you get that Jesus wasn't human?

Jesus had a nature just like you, I and everyone else Chopper. A real person. This question of Jesus nature sparked a lot of heresies because many of these heresies claimed Jesus was not human or a real human with a human nature, being LIKE you and I and everyone else.

Jesus had a human body thru Mary giving birth to Him. The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and Jesus was conceived. We have the Holy Spirit, we have Jesus with a divine nature, with ONLY a human body, not a human nature. I feel that to say that Christ Jesus, the Son of God, had a human nature is to contaminate His holiness. Again, is there clear biblical proof of a human nature?

And some would consider that sight playing with fire.

 

[Kidron]

In my morning devotions and study, I read a statement by John Gill, one of my favorite Theologians, the following....He that descended is the same also that ascended,.... His remarks was based on, Ephesians 4:10 "He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things."

Gill - "It was the same divine Person, the Son of God, who assumed human nature, and suffered in it, which is meant by his descent, who in that nature ascended up to heaven: this proves that Christ existed before he took flesh of the virgin; and that though he has two natures, yet he is but one person.

I don't think that I've ever read anywhere that Jesus Christ, while incarnated in human form, had two natures. Am I wrong?

-
When a theological teaching implies or otherwise states that Jesus has a duel nature, then this falsely establishes that Jesus had a fallen "adamic nature" while also being deity.
The only way this could be possible is if His Father had sinned, was "fallen", and from this, Jesus would have the same "adamaic" nature as the rest of humanity. (as would His Father).
That math will never add up as long as the Father of Jesus, who imputed His nature into the Son, Is sinless.
Last time i checked, God is still God, and God is still Holy, Righteous, and Pure from any and all "sin".
So, tho Jesus was tempted as all are tempted, He was tempted while being sinless, exactly as the 1st Adam was sinless before he sinned.
However, the 1st Adam was not a begotten Son of God, as he was not created from the seed of God's holiness via the Holy Spirit, but instead Adam was a created from dirt.... Son of God, made in God's image, but not from God's "seed".
Humans get their adamic seen from their fathers, and all human fathers are sinners, fallen.
Christ got His seed from HIS Father, who IS righteousness ., so Christ's nature would reflect exactly and perfectly His Father's Righteouness, while human's reflect their father's nature, which is the fallen Adamic nature.

 

[Edward]

Where did you get that Jesus wasn't human? Jesus had a human body thru Mary giving birth to Him. The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and Jesus was conceived. We have the Holy Spirit, we have Jesus with a divine nature, with ONLY a human body, not a human nature. I feel that to say that Christ Jesus, the Son of God, had a human nature is to contaminate His holiness. Again, is there clear biblical proof of a human nature?

I think that Jesus did have two natures, Brother. Scripture may not spell that out exactly, but it does say that he became man. I think that He would have had to be no more man than Adam was, in order for Him to be an acceptable sacrifice? He was a man, and had man's nature, He just didn't sin at all, so there would have been no additional corruption to His (character) as He grew up.

Like with anyone. They say everyone has their vices, but a lot of other sins, we're not even tempted by. I have never had a problem with porn, for instance. It doesn't appeal to me, so it's easy to not commit that sin. having a human nature wouldn't corrupt His holiness, because He never sinned.

We may tend to think that human nature is a corruption, and it is, but only because all have sinned and so come short of the Glory of God...and Jesus didn't sin.

I think that's right.

 

[Chopper]

Heb 2:14-17
Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Jesus had to be like us in all things "All things" includes our human nature as God originally created it. He had to be a complete human being, with a "human nature" in order to destroy the one who who had the power of death. (the devil)

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man's obedience many will be made righteous.

Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

A man brought death to all men so a man, who had not sinned and who had not earned a death, was necessary to bring righteousness and life.

If Christ had only a divine nature and no human nature then He would have been God, who cannot die, masquerading as a man and pretending to die. That would have accomplished exactly nothing.


When scripture speaks of "nature" it is not referring to the same thing as our modern term "human nature." The modern term refers to our shortcomings, our tendency to err, and to sin.

Theologically, there are only two natures: divine and created. God (in trinity) alone is divine. Man and all the universe is created.
Jesus is both divine and created.
As the Logos, He is eternal God. (divinity) He is the Son of God
AS Jesus of Nazareth, He is a created being born of a woman.
As Christ He is Divinity (Logos and Son of God) and creature. (Son of man)

iakov the fool

Colossians 2:9 "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." And Colossians 1:19 "For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell." When Jesus was FULL of deity and FULL of God, there is no room for anything human other than a body. Lets look at Christ's body....Colossians 1:22 "He has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him." And Hebrews 10:5 "Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, "Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me." And Hebrews 10:10 "And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

1. Colossians 2:9 There simply is no room for a human nature in Christ Jesus since He is FULL of deity.
2. Colossians 1:19 Again, fullness is fullness!
3. Colossians 1:22 "We are reconciled thru His body of flesh." which He obtained thru the Spirit thru Mary. Please note that there is no mention of a human nature it is solely His body of flesh!

This next verse may possibly be my most important qualifying statement of Scripture against a human nature in Christ Jesus. As I was considering my position, I believe that the Spirit of Christ Jesus gave me this next verse.
4. Hebrews 10:5 "A body have you prepared for me." I don't see a human nature here.
5. Hebrews 10:10 Offering of His Body, no human nature here.

I can't agree with this statement of yours....

Theologically, there are only two natures: divine and created.

Created? I wouldn't use that word. Birthed would be better.

 

[Chopper]

If I may add something here that I have wanted to relate for awhile in this discussion.
There really is no human nature, there isThe nature of God and the Satan sin nature.
Seeing all in Adam or all in Christ is really all the scriptures show us.
Humanity is in one or the other, my personal understanding is we do not go in and out of either one. It is psychology or the like that coined the term human nature, it is not in scripture, bless you Chopper enjoyed the topic and your imput.

Thank you so very much Soul man. You're a good friend.

 

[IncredibleTransformation]

To have a duel nature you have to have the ability to sin. Jesus had no ability to sin. He was on a mission to die for our sins. I don't believe he could have fulfilled that mission if he had two natures.

 

[smaller]

The presentation that Jesus had no human nature and only a Divine Nature is called Apollinarianism:

http://mb-soft.com/believe/txn/apollin.htm

 

[Chopper]

-
When a theological teaching implies or otherwise states that Jesus has a duel nature, then this falsely establishes that Jesus had a fallen "adamic nature" while also being deity.
The only way this could be possible is if His Father had sinned, was "fallen", and from this, Jesus would have the same "adamaic" nature as the rest of humanity. (as would His Father).
That math will never add up as long as the Father of Jesus, who imputed His nature into the Son, Is sinless.
Last time i checked, God is still God, and God is still Holy, Righteous, and Pure from any and all "sin".
So, tho Jesus was tempted as all are tempted, He was tempted while being sinless, exactly as the 1st Adam was sinless before he sinned.
However, the 1st Adam was not a begotten Son of God, as he was not created from the seed of God's holiness via the Holy Spirit, but instead Adam was a created from dirt.... Son of God, made in God's image, but not from God's "seed".
Humans get their adamic seen from their fathers, and all human fathers are sinners, fallen.
Christ got His seed from HIS Father, who IS righteousness ., so Christ's nature would reflect exactly and perfectly His Father's Righteouness, while human's reflect their father's nature, which is the fallen Adamic nature.

Thank you friend Kidron. Very well put. I agree totally.

 

[Chopper]

The presentation that Jesus had no human nature and only a Divine Nature is called Apollinarianism:

http://mb-soft.com/believe/txn/apollin.htm

I prefer to call it Truth.

 

[smaller]

I prefer to call it Truth.

Just saying that's what that belief is AND that it's been considered quite outside of mainstream christianity for quite some time now. Not saying I hold it against you. :nod

 

[Chopper]

To have a duel nature you have to have the ability to sin. Jesus had no ability to sin. He was on a mission to die for our sins. I don't believe he could have fulfilled that mission if he had two natures.

Thank you my old Buddy. Hey, I'm beginning to see folk who agree with me. I thought I might have to battle this on my own. You've always had my back and I love you.

 

[Jim Parker]

Adam, before disobedience and after is a very deep theological subject.

I think it is the core issue.
God said that all He created was "very good". (Gen 1:31)
Man did not even know what evil was until he disobeyed God. (Gen 3:7)
Because Jesus' father was not a descendant of Adam, but, rather, God the Holy Spirit, He did not inherit the damage done to Adam's nature by sin.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[Jim Parker]

To have a duel nature you have to have the ability to sin. Jesus had no ability to sin.

That is false.
Speaking of Jesus, the writer of Hebrews stated:
Heb 2:18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
If Jesus had no ability to sin then He would also to be tempted to sin just as I am not tempted to try to flap my arms and fly.

He was on a mission to die for our sins. I don't believe he could have fulfilled that mission if he had two natures.

And you belief is based on what?
If He had only a divine nature then He could not die for to be divine is to be eternal.
If He was God "occupying" a human body which He re-animated after its death, then His death and resurrection was a masquerade and a fraud.
Rom 5:17-19 (RSV) If, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. Then as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all man, so one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all man. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man's obedience many will be made righteous.

It was a man, a human being, that caused death to reign over all of mankind because of his sin, therefore, it was necessary that a man who had no sin, a human being, should die for the sins of the world. (Not God in the costume of a human being)
A human being, a man, has a human nature.

All of this was settled over 15 centuries ago by the leading minds of the Church. I am constantly amazed and dismayed that modern amateurs so readily reject the teachings of the original Church as if those men were ignorant and intellectually deficient but we are all learned experts in theology and can prove them wrong.

Psa 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

nothing changes

 

[Jim Parker]

1. Colossians 2:9 There simply is no room for a human nature in Christ Jesus since He is FULL of deity.

As a believer, so are you.
Deity doesn't "take up room."

4. Hebrews 10:5 "A body have you prepared for me." I don't see a human nature here.
5. Hebrews 10:10 Offering of His Body, no human nature here.

The term "human nature" is not found in the Bible. It is a modern idea which, as I point out above, is entirely different from the ancient meaning of the word "nature" found in scripture which is that there are two natures: divine and creature. God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) is divine and all of creation (including mankind) are creatures.

Phl 2:7(NIV) says,"... he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness."
He (the Logos of God), having a divine nature took on the nature of a creature.

You are mistaken.
Better man than we settled this question over 15 centuries ago. On what basis do you believe that your understanding is more perfect than theirs?