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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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question for all christians
- Thread starter jasoncran
- Start date
Sin is done.
I think we need to define what wilfully means first before we move on.
Wilfully to me means doing something with pride and will no regret.
If i go out and steal my neighbours’ car take it for a joy ride and end up destroying it. Then come to regret my action. Then i desired to do the sin but was not wilful in it.
If i go out and steal my neighbours car take it for a joy ride and end up destroying it. Then brag about it to my friends and seek the opportunity to steal my other neighbours car then i desired to sin and was wilful about it.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
I think we need to define what wilfully means first before we move on.
Wilfully to me means doing something with pride and will no regret.
If i go out and steal my neighbours’ car take it for a joy ride and end up destroying it. Then come to regret my action. Then i desired to do the sin but was not wilful in it.
If i go out and steal my neighbours car take it for a joy ride and end up destroying it. Then brag about it to my friends and seek the opportunity to steal my other neighbours car then i desired to sin and was wilful about it.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
francisdesales
Member
- Aug 10, 2006
- 7,793
- 4
jasoncran said:
the vast majority of a Christian's sin is not willful. Most is due to ignorance or is not pre-meditated. They are usually just "falling short", and not necessarily malicious intent without caring about the consequences.
Regards
stovebolts
Member
- Nov 4, 2004
- 18,905
- 7,268
I believe it would be both Jason.
Sometimes we willfully sin while other times we sin without recognizing that it's sin. Some of the sins we did not recogize as sin eventually break into our awareness and we can adjust our lifestyles accordingly and I'd like to touch upon those for a bit.
One of the things I pray for often is that God grant me new eyes each and every day to see the things that I could not see before. I also pray for new ears, that I may hear the sounds and voices of those that are around me, but I have failed to really hear them. And then I pray for new skin to feel, that I may feel what's around me in new ways.
I've always viewed my life as a journey, and as a child of God, that view has been reinforced.
When we look back in the Old Testement, we see many types of offerings for sin. We see offerings for the priests, that they would be free from sin when they offer sacrafices to YHVH for the sins committed by the people in ignorance. We see offerings for sin for willful sins and we see offerings for the purpose of communing with God.
But when I look at the New covenant in Jesus, I know that he was the perfect offering for all of humanity and that Jesus, the author of life was perfected through his suffering and through Jesus, our sins have been forgivin and we can commune with Him.
As we mature in our faith, our sins become apparent and we must repent and confess those sins.
1:9 But if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous, forgiving us our sins and cleansing us from all unrighteousness.
As far as the willful sin, we must overcome them, and repent lest our hearts become hard.
Sometimes we willfully sin while other times we sin without recognizing that it's sin. Some of the sins we did not recogize as sin eventually break into our awareness and we can adjust our lifestyles accordingly and I'd like to touch upon those for a bit.
One of the things I pray for often is that God grant me new eyes each and every day to see the things that I could not see before. I also pray for new ears, that I may hear the sounds and voices of those that are around me, but I have failed to really hear them. And then I pray for new skin to feel, that I may feel what's around me in new ways.
I've always viewed my life as a journey, and as a child of God, that view has been reinforced.
When we look back in the Old Testement, we see many types of offerings for sin. We see offerings for the priests, that they would be free from sin when they offer sacrafices to YHVH for the sins committed by the people in ignorance. We see offerings for sin for willful sins and we see offerings for the purpose of communing with God.
But when I look at the New covenant in Jesus, I know that he was the perfect offering for all of humanity and that Jesus, the author of life was perfected through his suffering and through Jesus, our sins have been forgivin and we can commune with Him.
As we mature in our faith, our sins become apparent and we must repent and confess those sins.
1:9 But if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous, forgiving us our sins and cleansing us from all unrighteousness.
As far as the willful sin, we must overcome them, and repent lest our hearts become hard.
jasoncran
Member
- May 17, 2009
- 38,271
- 185
- Thread starter
- #7
then francisdales, if you think about that intent to sin and why we do it? why isnt the eternal security doctrine possible and logical in that sense.
yes stovebolts i agree with your thinking. i want to see how some will answer this question and then ask about eternal security based on that answer.
yes stovebolts i agree with your thinking. i want to see how some will answer this question and then ask about eternal security based on that answer.
GodspromisesRyes
Member
- Aug 26, 2009
- 774
- 1
I believe the scriptures show forth three catagories here.
1)willfull sin is when you KNOW something is a sin and want to do it anyways and deside you would rather do it then not to- Like Flippantly not caring just wanting what you want.
Hbr 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Num 15:30 ¶ But the soul that doeth [ought] presumptuously, [whether he be] born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity [shall be] upon him
2)there is sins of weakness. Where as your mind and Spirit are against the sin and you do not desire it and are trying to resist it but you fall to it anyways all the while not wanting to at all, being truly seperated from the actions of your flesh and being tormented in mind and Spirit to resist it.(this is not something we should use as an excuse to sin but happens when we have not been delivered of a certian thing or have not recieved power of the Spirit yet to overcome- again, if we use this one to do something then we have entered number 1)
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
3)Sins of ignorance- These are sins that you do not knowing yet that they are sins. These are the kind of sins the sacrifices were made to cover specifically.
Num 15:27 ¶ And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.
Num 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
1Ti 1:12 ¶ And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief.
1)willfull sin is when you KNOW something is a sin and want to do it anyways and deside you would rather do it then not to- Like Flippantly not caring just wanting what you want.
Hbr 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Num 15:30 ¶ But the soul that doeth [ought] presumptuously, [whether he be] born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity [shall be] upon him
2)there is sins of weakness. Where as your mind and Spirit are against the sin and you do not desire it and are trying to resist it but you fall to it anyways all the while not wanting to at all, being truly seperated from the actions of your flesh and being tormented in mind and Spirit to resist it.(this is not something we should use as an excuse to sin but happens when we have not been delivered of a certian thing or have not recieved power of the Spirit yet to overcome- again, if we use this one to do something then we have entered number 1)
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
3)Sins of ignorance- These are sins that you do not knowing yet that they are sins. These are the kind of sins the sacrifices were made to cover specifically.
Num 15:27 ¶ And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.
Num 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
1Ti 1:12 ¶ And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief.
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jasoncran
I see you closed down the movie board. (smiley face) I was going to post something else. But you were doing so well, I didn’t want to interrupt.
Sin is sin, no matter what the sin is. Paul said that the law reveals sin. John said that sin is transgression of the law. James said that whoever keeps the whole law, yet transgresses on one point of the law, such a one is guilty of the whole law. And that is the problem of trying to be saved by keeping the law. Not humanly possible. Being saved by the law was not even the purpose of the law. It was just to keep the Jews until their Messiah came. The law continues to exist, but the Old Covenant relationship is over. The purpose of the law today is only to reveal sin.
Eventually, sin will happen and the whole law will be transgressed. That is why the New Testament writers constantly speak of being in Christ. Jesus Christ fulfilled the law. And so being in Christ, it is the life of Christ that overcomes the sin. Yet we are also in this body. The body, as Paul says, has this proclivity to continue to sin. But it is not us; it is the sin within us. Who shall deliver us from this body of death? Jesus is the answer. Jesus came to deal with the sin in us. And one day we will be like Jesus and see him as he is. We will then be without sin.
Until then, there is 1John 1:9. And anyone with a sense of their own sin and sinfulness will pray for forgiveness constantly and constantly praise God for sending his Son to be a propitiation for our sins, and for the shed blood that is for our redemption, and for the faith of Jesus Christ through whom we are made righteous. And anyone with a sense of their own sin and sinfulness will constantly put to death the sinful deeds through the Spirit of God.
A major problem in Christianity today is that very few have a sense of their own sin and sinfulness. They live like the world as a consequence. Some just live like the culture. This is the most common. They do not walk according to the Spirit.
Others become legalistic and judgmental towards others. But they do not have a sense of personal sin and sinfulness. They can only think about what should be sin and sinful to others. Those who call Avatar anti-Christ and sin are of the latter type. They create laws that they want everyone else to obey. And call it love of the world or love of ourselves and claim that the love of the Father is not in us if we don’t comply. They do not walk according to the Spirit. If they were, they would be judging themselves, not everyone around them. And they certainly wouldn’t bother judging a piece of fiction on everyone else’s behalf. If we all walk by the Spirit, then we would all know what a piece of fiction is to us. We would all know that whatever is not out of faith, our own faith, is sin. We don’t need others to exercise our faith for us. Indeed, no one can exercise our faith for us. No one can believe into Christ for us. And no one can walk according to the Spirit for us. Who really listens to the judgment of another anyway, unless they are already predisposed to listen and to agree?
Sin is within us all, and Peter says that love covers a multitude of sins. It is in love that sin is overcome in Christ through the Spirit of God. God judges us all. We don’t need to judge one another. We don’t need to judge anything for another. We only need to judge ourselves whether we are in Christ and whether we are walking according to the Spirit. And in regards to others, we only need to lead them to Jesus Christ and to the Spirit of God.
I used to lead others to Christ and to the Spirit with an open Bible in my hand. And I used to marvel at how ineffective that was. But that was before I realized that everyone understands what the Biblical writers wrote in a different way. There is no such thing as objective truth in regard to how we each understand the Bible. Truth is in Christ and is Christ. We can only lead one to that truth, because Christ is the truth that is the reality. No one is in Christ simply because the Bible says that Jesus is the truth. It is because something inside says, “yes, this is soâ€. It is the Spirit who convicts of sin and of righteousness and of judgment. We are always to be ready to give an answer concerning the hope that is within us. And we all tend to forget the part that says, “to anyone who asksâ€. We are always ready to give an answer to anyone under any circumstance. Sometimes we think that the only gifted one in the body is the evangelist, and we are that gifted one.
If the Bible was written by God, then it only stands to reason that the Bible is the tool of God. It is not our personal tool to hit others over the head with. I practiced that sin for decades. I now let God use what is his tool, whether in relation to myself or in relation to others. If someone who wants a Bible doesn’t have a Bible, I will give them one so that God may begin to use his tool on their behalf. The law that reveals sin is everywhere spoken of in the Bible. But without Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God, the law will just be invisible words, the letters will be dead letters. We only need to believe into Jesus Christ and walk according to the Spirit and read our Bibles in that light. Then the reality that is in Christ will be revealed to us in knowledge and in experience. Then we will begin to have a sense of our own sin and sinfulness.
JamesG
jasoncran
I see you closed down the movie board. (smiley face) I was going to post something else. But you were doing so well, I didn’t want to interrupt.
Sin is sin, no matter what the sin is. Paul said that the law reveals sin. John said that sin is transgression of the law. James said that whoever keeps the whole law, yet transgresses on one point of the law, such a one is guilty of the whole law. And that is the problem of trying to be saved by keeping the law. Not humanly possible. Being saved by the law was not even the purpose of the law. It was just to keep the Jews until their Messiah came. The law continues to exist, but the Old Covenant relationship is over. The purpose of the law today is only to reveal sin.
Eventually, sin will happen and the whole law will be transgressed. That is why the New Testament writers constantly speak of being in Christ. Jesus Christ fulfilled the law. And so being in Christ, it is the life of Christ that overcomes the sin. Yet we are also in this body. The body, as Paul says, has this proclivity to continue to sin. But it is not us; it is the sin within us. Who shall deliver us from this body of death? Jesus is the answer. Jesus came to deal with the sin in us. And one day we will be like Jesus and see him as he is. We will then be without sin.
Until then, there is 1John 1:9. And anyone with a sense of their own sin and sinfulness will pray for forgiveness constantly and constantly praise God for sending his Son to be a propitiation for our sins, and for the shed blood that is for our redemption, and for the faith of Jesus Christ through whom we are made righteous. And anyone with a sense of their own sin and sinfulness will constantly put to death the sinful deeds through the Spirit of God.
A major problem in Christianity today is that very few have a sense of their own sin and sinfulness. They live like the world as a consequence. Some just live like the culture. This is the most common. They do not walk according to the Spirit.
Others become legalistic and judgmental towards others. But they do not have a sense of personal sin and sinfulness. They can only think about what should be sin and sinful to others. Those who call Avatar anti-Christ and sin are of the latter type. They create laws that they want everyone else to obey. And call it love of the world or love of ourselves and claim that the love of the Father is not in us if we don’t comply. They do not walk according to the Spirit. If they were, they would be judging themselves, not everyone around them. And they certainly wouldn’t bother judging a piece of fiction on everyone else’s behalf. If we all walk by the Spirit, then we would all know what a piece of fiction is to us. We would all know that whatever is not out of faith, our own faith, is sin. We don’t need others to exercise our faith for us. Indeed, no one can exercise our faith for us. No one can believe into Christ for us. And no one can walk according to the Spirit for us. Who really listens to the judgment of another anyway, unless they are already predisposed to listen and to agree?
Sin is within us all, and Peter says that love covers a multitude of sins. It is in love that sin is overcome in Christ through the Spirit of God. God judges us all. We don’t need to judge one another. We don’t need to judge anything for another. We only need to judge ourselves whether we are in Christ and whether we are walking according to the Spirit. And in regards to others, we only need to lead them to Jesus Christ and to the Spirit of God.
I used to lead others to Christ and to the Spirit with an open Bible in my hand. And I used to marvel at how ineffective that was. But that was before I realized that everyone understands what the Biblical writers wrote in a different way. There is no such thing as objective truth in regard to how we each understand the Bible. Truth is in Christ and is Christ. We can only lead one to that truth, because Christ is the truth that is the reality. No one is in Christ simply because the Bible says that Jesus is the truth. It is because something inside says, “yes, this is soâ€. It is the Spirit who convicts of sin and of righteousness and of judgment. We are always to be ready to give an answer concerning the hope that is within us. And we all tend to forget the part that says, “to anyone who asksâ€. We are always ready to give an answer to anyone under any circumstance. Sometimes we think that the only gifted one in the body is the evangelist, and we are that gifted one.
If the Bible was written by God, then it only stands to reason that the Bible is the tool of God. It is not our personal tool to hit others over the head with. I practiced that sin for decades. I now let God use what is his tool, whether in relation to myself or in relation to others. If someone who wants a Bible doesn’t have a Bible, I will give them one so that God may begin to use his tool on their behalf. The law that reveals sin is everywhere spoken of in the Bible. But without Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God, the law will just be invisible words, the letters will be dead letters. We only need to believe into Jesus Christ and walk according to the Spirit and read our Bibles in that light. Then the reality that is in Christ will be revealed to us in knowledge and in experience. Then we will begin to have a sense of our own sin and sinfulness.
JamesG
Well, whatever is not of faith is sin.
Breaking God's law, rebellion against God, and falling short is sin.
(I believe Heb. says rejecting God is willful sin.)
The only sin that isn't covered at the cross is rejection of our Lord and Savior (unbelief).
I'm sure happy Jesus defeated sin at the cross, because otherwise we'd all earn our wages of death.
Oh, and love covers a multitude of sins...so it would be wise to love your neighbor. :yes
That said, we are called to liberty, being freed from the law of sin and death, so I believe the only "sin" a Christian can commit is rebellion (walking in disobedience), and that, by the way, is always willful. We don't have to disobey. We know we shouldn't commit adultery, lie, cheat, steal, so if we do such things, we're in rebellion. It comes down to our motives and our heart attitude. I've found the older I get, knowing God is faithful to make my life miserable when I don't do what I should, or when I do something I know I shouldn't, I'm inclined to just obey...out of fear of the repercussions.
(That should set a lot of people off)... :biglaugh
Seriously, don't we all desire to please Him? He is so worthy. I honestly believe our hearts are programmed to be pleasing in His sight.
I don't believe when I react in the flesh when I smash my thumb with a hammer it's sin (since it isn't rebellion....although it certainly is falling short of the glory of God. I'm still in the flesh and until we receive our glorified body we'll be subject to reacting under certain circumstances. But when the Lord puts it on my heart to speak a word of encouragement to that annoying lady across the street, and I put it off, then I'm in rebellion against God. I have no peace until I have set things right.
Now here I am rambling ...boring all my friends so I'll just say goodnight. Good topic, though, Jason. I hope we can all remember to show some love for our brothers and sisters in the Lord as we discuss the Word.
Breaking God's law, rebellion against God, and falling short is sin.
(I believe Heb. says rejecting God is willful sin.)
The only sin that isn't covered at the cross is rejection of our Lord and Savior (unbelief).
I'm sure happy Jesus defeated sin at the cross, because otherwise we'd all earn our wages of death.
Oh, and love covers a multitude of sins...so it would be wise to love your neighbor. :yes
That said, we are called to liberty, being freed from the law of sin and death, so I believe the only "sin" a Christian can commit is rebellion (walking in disobedience), and that, by the way, is always willful. We don't have to disobey. We know we shouldn't commit adultery, lie, cheat, steal, so if we do such things, we're in rebellion. It comes down to our motives and our heart attitude. I've found the older I get, knowing God is faithful to make my life miserable when I don't do what I should, or when I do something I know I shouldn't, I'm inclined to just obey...out of fear of the repercussions.
(That should set a lot of people off)... :biglaugh
Seriously, don't we all desire to please Him? He is so worthy. I honestly believe our hearts are programmed to be pleasing in His sight.
I don't believe when I react in the flesh when I smash my thumb with a hammer it's sin (since it isn't rebellion....although it certainly is falling short of the glory of God. I'm still in the flesh and until we receive our glorified body we'll be subject to reacting under certain circumstances. But when the Lord puts it on my heart to speak a word of encouragement to that annoying lady across the street, and I put it off, then I'm in rebellion against God. I have no peace until I have set things right.
Now here I am rambling ...boring all my friends so I'll just say goodnight. Good topic, though, Jason. I hope we can all remember to show some love for our brothers and sisters in the Lord as we discuss the Word.
.
jasoncran
Sorry, I think you misunderstood. None of the threads on Movies & TV Reviews have been locked. I meant it as a compliment. No one has posted for almost a week on that board. You kept after them until they took their toys and went home. I think you frustrated them with your question of how far are we to take the judging of movies as an expression of antiChrist. Maybe we ought start a thread there on the proper way to critique a movie. The DVD for Avatar is supposed to come out next month. I can't wait to see it again to see what I missed the first time.
What do you think about the rest of my post that is in response to your question about sin?
JamesG
jasoncran
Sorry, I think you misunderstood. None of the threads on Movies & TV Reviews have been locked. I meant it as a compliment. No one has posted for almost a week on that board. You kept after them until they took their toys and went home. I think you frustrated them with your question of how far are we to take the judging of movies as an expression of antiChrist. Maybe we ought start a thread there on the proper way to critique a movie. The DVD for Avatar is supposed to come out next month. I can't wait to see it again to see what I missed the first time.
What do you think about the rest of my post that is in response to your question about sin?
JamesG
Willful sin is also called sinning with a "high hand".
Num 15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that doeth aught unwittingly (not knowingly, not willfully ), for him that is home-born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth aught with a high hand, whether he be home-born or a sojourner, the same blasphemeth Jehovah; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of Jehovah, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
Num 15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that doeth aught unwittingly (not knowingly, not willfully ), for him that is home-born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth aught with a high hand, whether he be home-born or a sojourner, the same blasphemeth Jehovah; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of Jehovah, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
francisdesales
Member
- Aug 10, 2006
- 7,793
- 4
jasoncran said:
Like I said, most don't "intentionally" sin, as per Hebrews. What we call "mortal" sin. You have to know it is really evil, and do it anyway, and there are no circumstances forcing you to do it. I'd say that most devout people avoid this sort of activity in their lives.
Eternal security doctrine, not sure what you mean by that, I think we are secure that God won't leave us, but we can leave Him, willfully. It seems strange that once illuminated and born in the knowledge of Christ would return to the vomit of their previous life, but it happens and happened in Scriptural days, as well.
Regards
E
elijah23
Guest
We know nothing when we are born. From the beginning, the Lord is teaching us what is right and what is wrong. We make mistakes, and the Lord shows us our mistakes. If we refuse to listen to his counsel and persist in selfish behavior, them we cross the line into sin, I think.jasoncran said:
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, saith the Lord: I will put my laws on their heart, And upon their mind also will I write them;
Do not transgress the law in your heart and you will be safe. That is the only law you must follow and obey Jas 4:17 To him therefore that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Its obvious that God is not saying that we can claim silly things like " I feel that I can sleep around because its not written on my heart that it is wrong " We know that we must have the mind of Christ and the mind of Christ is His Word. If the Word does not dwell richly in us, we will not grow . Since we are told to let the Word dwell richly , we must obey. The Word changes us into His image as we submit to it.
We must learn to look into our hearts and to follow the law that God has written down on it.
Do not transgress the law in your heart and you will be safe. That is the only law you must follow and obey Jas 4:17 To him therefore that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Its obvious that God is not saying that we can claim silly things like " I feel that I can sleep around because its not written on my heart that it is wrong " We know that we must have the mind of Christ and the mind of Christ is His Word. If the Word does not dwell richly in us, we will not grow . Since we are told to let the Word dwell richly , we must obey. The Word changes us into His image as we submit to it.
We must learn to look into our hearts and to follow the law that God has written down on it.
jasoncran
Member
- May 17, 2009
- 38,271
- 185
- Thread starter
- #19
if we can walk away then our salvation isnt all that secure! we can come and go as we please in the Lord. if that's the case, then we arent probably saved in the first place.
so. francisdales, a man or woman is so holy upon salvation that will never give in to temptation, and get hooked in to some sin, and need a rebuking?
i know that youre arent sugessting that we just sin without thinking about it first all the time.
so. francisdales, a man or woman is so holy upon salvation that will never give in to temptation, and get hooked in to some sin, and need a rebuking?
i know that youre arent sugessting that we just sin without thinking about it first all the time.
People are so quick to misinterpret this verse.francisdesales said:
First...it is impossible.
Second...if it were possible, Christ would be put to open shame. His days of shame are finished.
Third..."though we thus speak", we are persuaded better things because of that which "accompany salvation".
Heb. 6:4-9 said: