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r_u_scared?

People always argue about the illegal immigrants who are good hard working people with good intentions that illegaly cross the boarder, but its not about that. Its about weeding out the gangs, drugs, terrorists, and criminals. Thats why boarder security is a must.

Calling boarder security and a boarder wall racist is not a argument. Its not about any ethnic group or how much melanin is in a persons skin.
 
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kiwidan said:
Calling border security and a border wall racist is not a argument.
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Correct. The history of illegal immigration from Mexico goes back to at least World War I (over 100 years). Yet it is really amazing that no one in the USA among the politicians or presidents (on either side of the political spectrum) gave this matter serious attention, and its impact on national security and the democratic process. Of course for the Democrats, illegals are a bonanza, since they can garner their votes through voter fraud. Therefore open borders and sanctuary cities is their slogan, and who gives a hoot about national security?
 
Nathan12 said:
Absolutely.

1. A small handful of evil people in each of these countries have taken control and grabbed all the wealth and/or squandered it on arms, ammunition, and armies, rather than the welfare of their people. There is enough hidden wealth and natural resources in Africa to give every African a decent home, decent wages, and a decent infrastructure and health care. But it won't happen.

2. All the billions of dollars of foreign aid which has poured from the West into the Third World for at least 100 years had done little or nothing to alleviate poverty. The poorest never get to see anything since the corrupt officials divert the aid and food for their own benefit.

"...In response to Third World poverty, the U.S. government has provided over $321 billion in assistance since World War II. As this figure indicates, foreign aid is politically popular. Be sides its humanitarian supporters, many special interest groups lobby for foreign aid. For example, American farmers back food assistance because such programs help eliminate politically embarrassing food surpluses caused by agricultural subsidies.

While foreign aid is a political success, it is an economic and social failure. By increasing government power, destroying economic incentives, promoting unprofitable enterprises, and subsidizing misguided policies, foreign aid increases Third World poverty. In this essay we will examine two types of foreign aid: humanitarian and development assistance. We will then discuss alternatives to aid in helping the Third World, especially the policy of free trade..."
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Nathan,

I don't find that to be a compassionate response to the poor in this world, no matter what the country.

Your theology does not conform with that of OT and NT:

Isaiah 58:10 (NIRV), 'Work hard to feed hungry people. Satisfy the needs of those who are crushed. Then my blessing will light up your darkness. And the night of your suffering will become as bright as the noonday sun'.

Proverbs 31:8-9 (NIRV), 'Speak up for those who can’t speak for themselves. Speak up for the rights of all those who are poor. Speak up and judge fairly. Speak up for the rights of those who are poor and needy'.

Matt 19:21 (NIRV), 'Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go and sell everything you have. Give the money to those who are poor. You will have treasure in heaven. Then come and follow me.”'

Luke 12:33-34 (NIRV), Jesus said: 'Sell what you own. Give to those who are poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out. Store up riches in heaven that will never be used up. There, no thief can come near it. There, no moth can destroy it. Your heart will be where your riches are'.

Oz
 
kiwidan said:
It's a bit obvious that people who throw rocks at boarder authorites should not be allowed in the country as they are showing evidence they are violent people.

Throwing rocks at a countrys boarder security is the same as thowing rocks at the country. In my opinion that is a form of terrorism.
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:thumbsup
 
I heard an extensive plea by a Christian organization on my local Christian radio station. It was a plea for money to help care for refugees in the Middle East and Africa who had fled terrible, dangerous conditions at home, often as entire families.
It actually sounded a lot like what is happening at the US southern border.

The majority of illegal aliens BECOME illegal sometime after legally entering.
They overstay visas and things like that. The majority of illegal drugs are driven through border crossings and missed by our border agents.

I am all for keeping hardened gang members out. And justly dealing with our own home grown ones.

A giant wall will have a minimal effect because the majority of trouble comes in over the international bridges. And we need the traffic going back and forth for our economy.
 
You don't want to encourage people to risk there life travelling and trying to enter a nation illegally. It's very dangerous routes people take . If people care they would be for the highest boarder security and a wall to send a clear message that it's not worth risking life for,. That's if people acturally care for other people and there safety.
 
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Bull of the Woods said:
Yes, keep them penned up in their country at the mercy of gangs
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That's not exactly how one should view illegal immigration, or more correctly migrant invasion. It is up to Mexicans and Central Americans to deal with their gangsters and drug cartels (which will probably never happen). And anyone who wishes to immigrate legally should go through the legal process (as is true worldwide). Unfortunately, American presidents and politicians in the past have failed to secure the southern border against invasion.

Let's not forget that those migrant caravans are being organized and paid for by men like George Soros, who wish to destroy America by making lawlessness acceptable, and bringing many undesirables into America (along with many diseases). Migrant invasion is an act of war and that is how it should be viewed.
 
The majority of immigrants come up to the border, present themselves, ask for asylum and are granted entry by American personnel.
Unfortunately many of those do fail to present themselves at some later time, months and sometimes years later and at that time become illegal aliens. It's fine to build barriers at strategic points where people are crossing illegally. Everyone needs to get it that only building an impervious wall between official points of entry will be taking care of the tip of the iceberg and nothing more.
 
The old stand by:-
What would Jesus do?

Well what would he do with a truckful of ilegal immigrants or with the city slums of so many wealth countries?
Don't forget the poor in our countries as wel.

Do we really help the poor?

Here in the UK a church member who is working as a saocial worker challenged the church with the statement that she visit many families in the streets around our church where families are in need of help.
As a church we do not know these families, she cannot, because of client confidentiality tell us who hey are and suggestions that, that church might help fall on deaf ears.

That is something as a church we are trying to resolve.

Think what problems are there behind the walls of the houses around where you live?

How wealthy is your church, paying for a latestest state of the art sound and vision system? Do you really need that upgrade etc couldn't that money be better used supporting a worker in a third world country.
 
There are a high percentage of Hispanics in my church. For all I know maybe some are illegally in the US. I have no interest in finding out.
It's cool that we have an English and a Spanish hymnal. You have to pay attention because sometimes half the singing is in Spanish and half in English.
 
Who Me said:
Well what would he do with a truckful of illegal immigrants or with the city slums of so many wealth countries?
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Since Jesus taught His people to obey the laws of the land (Rom 13) He would send all illegals back. and tell them to apply for entry according to the laws of the land. He does not support lawlessness and anarchy. As to the slums, He would tell City Hall to clean up its act and that slums are a disgrace.
Who Me said:
Don't forget the poor in our countries as well. Do we really help the poor?
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The best way to help the poor (who want to be helped) is to give them a hand up, not a hand out on an ongoing basis. The poor need opportunities to become productive citizens through hard work, and earn a decent living through profit sharing. The Welfare system destroys incentives to get out of poverty, and Welfare fraud is also rampant.
Who Me said:
Here in the UK a church member who is working as a social worker challenged the church with the statement that she visit many families in the streets around our church where families are in need of help.
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And Christians should help. But churches generally fail to look at the long-term picture which means that eventually everyone is also helping themselves. Ideally, a homeless shelter should not stop at being only a shelter. It should become a training facility for workers, who also have access to either a farm or factory which is geared to them, so that those workers become productive citizens and go on to help others.
 
Bull of the Woods said:
Yes, keep them penned up in their country at the mercy of gangs
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Correct me if wrong but many people who cross the boarder come from Mexico. I was just speaking to my friend yesterday who lives in Mexico, he said everything is going well for him. If not he would tell me it's crazy and he needs to out.

Even in other countries when many flee as refugees like Syria there are towns and cities where people are working, eating and drinking, and having a good time.
 
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First you realize in the worst countries on earth people in some places or some economic status are doing well. You don't assess how life in a particular country by the experience or opinion of a single human being.
Second many immigrants are walking through Mexico from Guatemala, Nicaragua, Salvador. It happens our border is with Mexico.
 
Ok, so people go through Mexico. Why do people go through Mexico and not stay there?. I heard it is a really nice place.
 
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You realize how many people are killed by the drug cartels there?
Despite that many immigrants DO try to stay there. I think the US has a bit more opportunity for stability, safety, and hope.
 
Nathan12 said:
The best way to help the poor (who want to be helped) is to give them a hand up, not a hand out on an ongoing basis. The poor need opportunities to become productive citizens through hard work, and earn a decent living through profit sharing. The Welfare system destroys incentives to get out of poverty, and Welfare fraud is also rampant.
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Hi Nathan12, I agree with what you said in this post. But it just jumped out at me this section of the post. Because Jesus did this exact thing. When people were unable to help themselves, Jesus healed them. Then said "pick up your mat and go home." It was most definitely a hand up, not just a hand out.

:)
 
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