Rapture?

[turnorburn]

Seems to me it all begins to fade away unless you can get Christ back to earth a second time.

Well I guess that means you don't take God at his word.

Zechariah 14:Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.


turnorburn

 

[Trump]

Zechariah 14:1 "Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee."

"Behold", "look and see" is the command here. The events of this chapter are going to happen on the "Day of the Lord", also referred to as "the Lord's Day". When that day comes to pass, Satan will have ruled for the past five [5] month from his headquarters in Jerusalem [Revelation 9:5 and 10]. By the time that this "Day of the Lord" takes place, the entire world will be locked into the Antichrist's [Satan's] one world religious system, and the locust army of fallen angels will be in full control. Details of that time of Satan's control are written of Revelation 9, and Joel 1 and 2, and many other places.

When this "day of the Lord cometh" our generation will be well tested, with only a few passing the test and looking forward to our Lord's return. The rest of the world [including most Christians] to face the shame that came upon them in their playing the role of the harlot.

Just three and a half days prior to the this day, the entire world entered into the wildest celebration this earth has ever seen, for Satan will had killed the two troublemakers, that had cause all their problems. Those troublemakers were the "two witnesses" of God, giving the final warning of this earth age; and no one wanted that guilt put upon them. They were satisfied with their Christ, and ignorance, this Christ is the Antichrist. Now they were dead and rotting away, and the party is about over.

The world will be given ample cause to believe Satan, the Antichrist, to be the true Christ, for he will posses supernatural abilities, and one of those abilities is to bring peace to the world. Also, don't forget those countless numbers of fallen angelic beings [appearing to be men] that will come with Satan. Then too, the Churches have allowed Satan's flesh and blood kin, the "Kenites" to teach and write their doctrines for them, so even the Christians will be prepared for the grand show the Antichrist will give.

Do you get what Zechariah is telling us here? There will be no middle of the road people at this time. You will either know God's word, and what to expect, or you will not. If you do; then you are one of God's elect, and If you do not, you are not. The division is clear cut, and it is formed by your understanding of the order of the events of the end times, brought about through your study of God's word that you place in your mind. That is where the seal of God is [In your mind]. The seal is what you know to be true.

 

[Trump]

Zechariah 14:2 "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city."

There are actually two applications to this verse for "the women ravished". In the spiritual sense those women ravished are those of the bride of Christ. Many of the Christians today will be ravished spiritually at the coming Satan in his role as the "instead of Christ", also referred to as the Antichrist. The "houses" that shall be rifled, will be rifled because of their ignorance to God's Word. They are the church houses that teach their traditions and false doctrines that will lead their people into Satan's captivity. However there shall be a small residue of the people, those that have taken the time study God's Word to know the truth, and they shall not be cut off from our Lord Jesus Christ, they know the truth to have the "seal of God" in their minds and Satan will not be attractive to them.

The Antichrist's one world religious system will control most all religious forms, so this commitment to Satan's system is not difficult to understand. Jerusalem will be taken in battle and under the control of the Antichrist's world army, and the residue of the people there are Satan's flesh and blood kids, the "Kenites". This will no difference then how it was prior to the flood of Noah's day of Genesis 6, when the band of fallen angels took the women of the earth for their play things. This is why women are warned in the Bible to keep a vail over their heads.

 

[Trump]

Jesus warned us in Matthew 24:36-38; "But of that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

Matthew 24:37 "But as the days of No'-e [Noah], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Matthew 24:38 "For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that No'-e entered into the ark,"

Those women of Noah's day were marrying and giving in marriage to the fallen angels. From that sexual union with the angles, they had children, or what ever they appeared to be, for the Bible called them "Nephilim", or Giants, which in the Hebrew text dictionary, # 5303, and # 5307, "Ne-phil-im, meaning fallen ones". These characters and coming back to earth with Satan as part of his "Locust army".

 

[Trump]

Zechariah 14:3 "Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle."

Remember in Luke 23, where Jesus Christ was carrying the cross up the hill to be crucified, and women of Jerusalem were standing by and weeping, and crying for Him? Then in Luke 23:27-28 we read;

Luke 23:27 "And there followed him a great company of people, and of woman, which also bewailed and lamented him."

Luke 23:28 "But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children."

Jesus knew the way it was in Noah's time, and that upon His return it would be the same way. Only upon His return the "elect" of God would be covered and veiled, and would not yield to those "fallen ones". This condemnation will be on the children's souls that are living in our generation, and that condemnation will come at Christ's return for those unveiled.

There are many different ideas as to when and how these battles will take place. However, there is only one battle this could possibly be, and that was in the "battle to overthrow Satan" in the first earth age, prior to the time of Adam and Eve. That came when Satan tried to turn all the children of God against God. One third of the angelic beings fell with Satan in that battle.

The next battle that God will personally take part in will be on "the day of the Lord", at His return. Remember, that first battle totally devastated the entire earth; "And the earth [became, in the Hebrew text] void. " [Genesis 1:1] The age of the flesh followed that first destruction, and this age will end at the sounding of the seventh trump, when the Lord Jesus Christ shall return to set up His new kingdom age.

 

[Trump]

Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

This will happen on "the day of the Lord". God will shake the earth and send fire and brimstone upon it. The earthquakes will flatten the cities to where not one stone will stand upon another. Those two great mountains will shake, and the mount of Olives will split. All prophecies concerning Christ return include Mount Zion, and the Mount of Olives will be fulfilled. This is where Christ's feet will touch the earth, when He returns.

When Jesus and His disciples were departing out of Jerusalem before he would be delivered up to be crucified, they asked Him what it would be like at His second coming.

 

[Trump]

Matthew 24:2 "And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things [Temple buildings]? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Sure the city of Jerusalem has been destroyed from time to time, but there are still many stones stacked upon each other from the original construction. A simple trip to Jerusalem reveals that, for the wailing wall is one of the most popular markings of that city. Before that time another temple shall be built, and the Antichrist shall rule from that spot.

Then at the seventh trumpet, and Jesus Christ's return there will be a great shaking that will level the city of Jerusalem. At that shaking not one stone will be left upon another. Yet God will make a way of escape for his elect on that day. Then the "east gate", the one facing the "sun to the temple" will open a way of escape for God's people. That way will be there, and this destruction is not to be feared by one of God's elect.

 

[Trump]

Zechariah 14:5 "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."

"Azal" means, "a new selected place". This is a place selected by God for His people, and God will protect His own there.

 

[Trump]

The book of Zechariah is directed to the last, and final generation of this earth age. Much has already happened and will continue to be unveiled before our eyes, concerning end time prophecy. We are living in that generation of the time of Zechariah's vision, for that time started on May 15, 1948. On that date the tiny nation of Israel was established in Palestine, and the "Jews", [both the good and bad figs] returned to Palestine, and were recognized by the United Nations as a nation.

This is not a time to fear for there are no secrets, in as much as God has revealed the events that we will see in our lifetime. There is no better way to face the deception and confusion of those times then to know the problems, and the outcomes of the events in advance. This book of Zechariah can best be explained as, "the coming out of Babylon". "Babylon" means "confusion" in the Hebrew tongue. In the Book of Haggai, this prophet's writings were directed to those "born in confusion [Babylon]."

So in this book of Zechariah, God will explain the confusion and deception that we not only face today, but those deceptions also that shall come to pass in the very near future. Then the prophet Zechariah will show us how to draw ourselves out of that deception and confusion, if you read with understanding.

 

[Capt. Kirk]

Gosh....so much interest!

I'm sorry I don't have time to read all the messages, but for my two cents, I cite
Proverbs.10.30...."The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall
not inhabit the earth."

If they are never removed, then????????????????????????

 

[Trump]

... they shall be cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death, the death of the soul.

 

[DeBPrpht]

Greetings Ya'll,

It is written:
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Now,......where does one find any reference to two or more trumpets being blown, that have something to do with "th' rapture"? Furthermore what events happen when 7 after these trumpets are blown?

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Since Paul wrote that at the last trumpet we would be gathered up, & since John wrote in Revelations that there are seven trumpets,..........one has to come to the conclusion that THE CHURCH goes through the events which coincide with the sounding of the previous six trumpets. One only has to read from Rev.8: to Rev. 19: to see how one's Faith is indeed going to be tested, for I say here that there is a far greater meaning to this verse of scripture:

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

This teaching of "th' rapture" even contradicts more scripture:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2 Thess.2-4 is also supported by Rev. 13:1-9:

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Now answer me this,............(the above scriptures came from God Himself, they are not of my thinking nor my doing), "if", this mythical rapture has occurred,......then by this "beast" making war upon the saints "in heaven".......since the rapture has occured, then does this not make God a liar? :verysad

I say that since God is not a liar, & that His Word is TRUE,...............I say that the widely acclaimed teaching held by most churches regarding "th' rapture" is A LIE!

Furthermore..........the event is called the "Gathering" & "The Harvest"

Shalom!

 

[Paidion]

I have never read where Jesus will return to this earth, where is that?

And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.†Acts 1:10,11 ESV

If Christ comes in the same way as the disciples saw him go into heaven, then:

1. They saw Him leave in his resurrected body. He will return in His resurrected body.
2. They saw Him leave the surface of the earth. He will return to the surface of the earth.

 

[Timios]

There is only ONE second coming taught in the New Testament, and it will happen AFTER the tribulation.

Matthew 24
29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[sheshisown]

Hi~

Gosh....so much interest!

I'm sorry I don't have time to read all the messages, but for my two cents, I cite
Proverbs.10.30...."The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall
not inhabit the earth."

If they are never removed, then????????????????????????

I'm pretty sure that removed here is out of the old english which means The righteous will never be uprooted, but the wicked will not remain in the land. That is the NIV translation.

bonnie :shades

 

[DeBPrpht]

Greetings Ya'll,

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

"Perfection" would be the Church being gathered up before the Tribulation / Time of Jacob's Trouble. A world where just because one "calls himself a Christian" & therefore suffers no physical harm nor persecution, is not reality.............because if it were, then all those who suffered, were persecuted & literally put to death under the hand of the Roman Empire (From 70 AD on ) & The Roman Catholics( The Inquisitions )..............were cheated of these false promises of "Th' rapture".

There is much more to :

Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.


Now,..........I may be just a "country boy",...........but if I'm reading The Word right,......if you are a Follower of The Lamb of God in the last days,..........then you are, according to the Written Word gonna suffer at least persecution & possibly death before He comes. Furthermore.....do you really think that Satan will be allowed to enter The Kingdom of Heaven & "make war upon the Saints"????

Shalom!

 

[Adstar]

Seems to me that there are two different debates going on here.

Rapture vs No Rapture

and

Pre-trib rapture vs Post trib rapture.


I am a Post trib rapture believer. It seems to me that because of the popular media portrayel of the rapture to be a pre-tribulation rapture most people out their think that pre-trib rapture is the only rapture position in existance. Of cource this pre-trib rapture has all the media coverage but it is not the position of all those who believe in the rapture.

I sometimes think that a lot of the people who have this No rapture position are reacting in a knee jerk reation against the pre-trib rapture doctrine. I look at the poll and it does make me happy that even with all the media control and saturation coverage of the pre-tribulation doctrine just as many people in here believe in Post trib rapture as in Pre-trib. I believe in a Last trumpet rapture, We will be going up to meet Jesus as He returns to earth. Jesus is coming back to earth and we will rule with Him. this is the first reasurection fortold in the book of Revelation chapter 20

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

I love Revelation chapter 20 because it is cronological in it's entirety.

Note what the scripture say about those who witnessed for Jesus. They are beheaded for it. they refuse to worship the beast and refuse to accept the mark of the beast.

Now read this

Revelation 13
11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


These witnesses to Jesus will be on the ground living in the times of the Anti-christ they will witness for the gospel and stand firm to the faith and they will be executed for it. There is no pre trib rapture peoples.


All Praise The ancient Of Days

 

[Spiffy]

If there is a rapture, are people being taken to judgement? When will they be judged?

 

[Adstar]

The final Judgement Happens 1000 years after the return of Jesus. All will be Judged but those who believe and trust in the atonment of Jesus will be forgiven.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Vic C.]

If there is a rapture, are people being taken to judgement? When will they be judged?

There are at least two resurrections spoken of in Scripture.

We got the resurrection of the Just:

Luke 14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

and the unjust:

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The rapture people speak of, this transformation:

1 Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

well, there is a judgment here, but it will not be one of condemnation, because our transgressions have already been blotted out; we are already forgiven!

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;