RCIA/OCIA (I'm gonna be Catholic soon)

[evenifigoalone]

I spent two or three years doing some searching and prayer before last year, when I decided to join the RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) class. RCIA (now called OCIA for Order of Christian Initiation for Adults) is how you join the Catholic Church as an adult.

I've gone through classes since last September every week (also to Mass every week) and I've been loving it, soaking up the knowledge gained therein. To me, the Catholic Church feels like the ultimate fulfillment of the faith that I've always practiced. Even if I wasn't practicing the Catholic faith, this is the same God I've always known and loved and the foundations laid for me in my youth at the baptist church are present here as well.

Last Sunday was the Rite of Election for me where catechumins (non-baptised) and candidates (baptisted but not yet confirmed such as myself) take another step closer to receiving the Sacraments at Easter Vigil in April.

 

[Who Me]

It's always sad to see someone walking away from Jesus to worship Mary, rituals, Saints etc.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Not catholic but I appreciate the church taking a stand on social issues…

 

[evenifigoalone]

https://autismconsecrated.com/more-thorlak/

This guy is going to be my confirmation Saint

 

[GodsGrace]

It's always sad to see someone walking away from Jesus to worship Mary, rituals, Saints etc.

It's always sad to see someone try to talk a person away from worhshipping God in a serious
and lovely manner.

I'll bet YOUR denomination also has some doctrine that is not acceptable to all of us here on this forum.

Mary is not worshipped.
Rituals are great, especially for kids.
Notice my avatar...I know of what I speak.

It's nice to know saints...but the CC relies on the bible and not on saints.

Try to find out some stuff before commenting on it.
Try to love the Mother of our Lord.
Try to appreciate the saints/martyrs that gave their life for God.
If you have kids...take them to rituals...they'll remember them all their life,
and will enrich their faith life.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Saints serve as rolemodels, is how I understand it. We can also ask them to pray for us, because they are alive.

It's common to pick a Saint you have something in common with. For instance I chose St Thorlak because he is believed posthumously to have been autistic and so, many autistic people look at his life as guidance and encouragement. I am autistic.

Everyone's goal should be to become a Saint, which means they lived a holy life of heroic virtue.

I spent months in RCIA classes learning about what the Church actually teaches and having common questions and concerns answered. I promise I know what I'm getting into.

 

[Who Me]

Mary is not worshipped

Talk to a hindu or a Buddhist or a Muslim about what you do before an image of Mary or of the Saints.
They will understand what you are doing is worship.
Ever read the passage in revelation where John started to kneel before an angel and was told not to!

 

[GodsGrace]

Talk to a hindu or a Buddhist or a Muslim about what you do before an image of Mary or of the Saints.
They will understand what you are doing is worship.
Ever read the passage in revelation where John started to kneel before an angel and was told not to!

Many of us do what we're not SUPPOSED to do or are TAUGHT to do.
I can only tell you what the CC teaches...
I am not able to reply to what each individual Catholic does against the teachings of the CC.

Also, do you agree with all other aspects of the Qur'an?
Do you agree with ALL of Buddhism?

Then why bring it up?
Who cares.

 

[GodsGrace]

Saints serve as rolemodels, is how I understand it. We can also ask them to pray for us, because they are alive.

It's common to pick a Saint you have something in common with. For instance I chose St Thorlak because he is believed posthumously to have been autistic and so, many autistic people look at his life as guidance and encouragement. I am autistic.

Everyone's goal should be to become a Saint, which means they lived a holy life of heroic virtue.

I spent months in RCIA classes learning about what the Church actually teaches and having common questions and concerns answered. I promise I know what I'm getting into.

OK
But I'm sure you also learned that it's JESUS who is at the center of the Church.
A point is made about this...I hope your instructor did this.

And I hope you know what saint means:
To be set aside for service to God.

Yes,,,we are all called to do this.
Amen.

 

[GodsGrace]

Talk to a hindu or a Buddhist or a Muslim about what you do before an image of Mary or of the Saints.
They will understand what you are doing is worship.
Ever read the passage in revelation where John started to kneel before an angel and was told not to!

BTW,,,,don't get too perturbed.
I'm not Catholic but know the doctrine.

 

[Vinny37]

I spent two or three years doing some searching and prayer before last year, when I decided to join the RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) class. RCIA (now called OCIA for Order of Christian Initiation for Adults) is how you join the Catholic Church as an adult.

I've gone through classes since last September every week (also to Mass every week) and I've been loving it, soaking up the knowledge gained therein. To me, the Catholic Church feels like the ultimate fulfillment of the faith that I've always practiced. Even if I wasn't practicing the Catholic faith, this is the same God I've always known and loved and the foundations laid for me in my youth at the baptist church are present here as well.

Last Sunday was the Rite of Election for me where catechumins (non-baptised) and candidates (baptisted but not yet confirmed such as myself) take another step closer to receiving the Sacraments at Easter Vigil in April.

Roman Catholicism has a lot of good to offer and is a fairly good safety net re Christian revelation. That said, I hold it sinful to call it the or a church. There is one church (Mt.16:18), which many denominations, networks, communities, whatever, represent in various ways, each having strengths and weaknesses, blindspots and insights: they all have churches, but none is the church or form a church, though all can be within the church through Christ. Likewise, Elim Church, Methodist Church, Orthodox Church, all biblically fall below par in their branding.

I also dismiss [the same God], as nowadays I think we should have dismissed polytheistic language. As Roman Catholic George Tyrell put it in 1903, “We do not believe in a god—for this would imply a possible or conceivable multiplication of gods—but only in God” (https://archive.org/details/prayers-gone-global-exploring-biblical-prayer/page/9/mode/1up). There are no god-types, so Christians can’t have one god and Muslims have another, and Catholics and Protestant cannot have the same god. Christians can have one concept of God, and Muslims can have another concept of God: many concepts, but God is alone God, whom Catholics and Protestants can have (and be had by) in varying ways and degrees.

I wish you well as you seriously seek to get deeper into God. BTW the freebook link to the Tyrell quote, is also one which you might find useful in your journey towards pleasing God more.

 

[GodsGrace]

Roman Catholicism has a lot of good to offer and is a fairly good safety net re Christian revelation. That said, I hold it sinful to call it the or a church. There is one church (Mt.16:18), which many denominations, networks, communities, whatever, represent in various ways, each having strengths and weaknesses, blindspots and insights: they all have churches, but none is the church or form a church, though all can be within the church through Christ. Likewise, Elim Church, Methodist Church, Orthodox Church, all biblically fall below par in their branding.

I also dismiss [the same God], as nowadays I think we should have dismissed polytheistic language. As Roman Catholic George Tyrell put it in 1903, “We do not believe in a god—for this would imply a possible or conceivable multiplication of gods—but only in God” (https://archive.org/details/prayers-gone-global-exploring-biblical-prayer/page/9/mode/1up). There are no god-types, so Christians can’t have one god and Muslims have another, and Catholics and Protestant cannot have the same god. Christians can have one concept of God, and Muslims can have another concept of God: many concepts, but God is alone God, whom Catholics and Protestants can have (and be had by) in varying ways and degrees.

I wish you well as you seriously seek to get deeper into God. BTW the freebook link to the Tyrell quote, is also one which you might find useful in your journey towards pleasing God more.

Very nice post Vinny.
I'm not sure what you mean by your first paragraph.
I don't think you mean Church as the Body of Christ.

Personally, for me, I wish the CC had stayed as it was the first couple of hundred years.
It was perfect...teaching what the Apostles taught, keeping heresies out of the church (small c).
But, alas, it did change after Nicea and involvement with governments and all the additions to scripture.

I agree that there is only One God and believe very much in Romans 1:18-20 (not to start a debate) that ALL persons can know the One, True God and come to believe in Him and obey Him,,,,with or without the gospel which came about thousands of years after humanity already existed.

Yes, it's HOW that God is perceived that changes.
I'd say that any denomination that helps a person to be close to God
and obey His commands is a good denomination.
Also, one that teaches that ANYONE could believe in God and be saved.
Other than that, all denominations have some problem or other and I'm sure
God will, in His mercy, forgive all we've gotten wrong about His desires for us.

 

[evenifigoalone]

OK
But I'm sure you also learned that it's JESUS who is at the center of the Church.
A point is made about this...I hope your instructor did this.

And I hope you know what saint means:
To be set aside for service to God.

Yes,,,we are all called to do this.
Amen.

Oh absolutely yes. On all points.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I personally have never knelt before a Saint or Mary. I have asked for intercession, yes. I have prayed rosary many times.

 

[GodsGrace]

I personally have never knelt before a Saint or Mary. I have asked for intercession, yes. I have prayed rosary many times.

Actually, you're not supposed to.
In the olden days, there used to be a railing at the altar....the altar rail,,,it also has a couple of other names I can't remember right now....persons would go up and pray to Mary or some other saint....So they just knelt at the altar because it was convenient....and some because they were not taught that this was wrong.
And anyway, a person should be able to pray as they feel comfortable.
But, yes, praying is different than worshipping.

As to the rosary, I'm sure you were told that the rosary is the most feared prayer by satan.
Exorcists will tell you this.
It's also really about Jesus and not Mary,,,
It tells the story of Jesus to those of hundred of years ago that were unlearned about their faith.
It helped them to know the story of our Lord since they could not read the bible, since they could not read.

 

[Vinny37]

...

[I’m not sure what you mean by your first paragraph. I don’t think you mean Church as the Body of Christ.]

There is only one church (assembly) of Christ (Mt.16:18) over the Christian millennia, and each of us who are in Christ, are like a living stone “…being built up into a spiritual temple and a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ” (NCB: 1 Pt.2:15). At the local level, Christ’s spiritual body is represented in such a way that each assembly may be called, Christ’s church/body, as if they were the total, whereas they represent the total. Into this mix has come many denominations, into which Western Catholicism gradually developed along with Eastern Orthodoxism, and other denominations: the denominations have local churches, but are not Churches, let alone The Church. What I hold sinful is to call any denomination a Church: there is one church; one body of Christ. Rome, I know, has liked to think itself the authentic hub. It is not, but has much good from the authentic, original, hub, and is part of the Christian church, a branch of the tree. Likewise, Elim ‘Church’ is sinful to name itself a Church. It likewise is but a denomination, part of the C1 hub, so part of the church.

Had the CC stayed as it was for the first few years, it would be very different today than it is with Catholicism and Orthodoxism, both big denominations, subsections of the one church, each with their departures from and accretions to, the canonical and apostolic hub. The hub has good representation in many of its offspring, and we can never perfectly revisit it, let alone emulate it, but we can enjoy approximations aware of their fallibility. Nicea certainly added social government and reduced social persecution, but it was hardly the beginning of change. All of life changes, even our genes.

[I agree that there is only One God and believe very much in Romans 1:18-20 (not to start a debate) that ALL persons can know the One, True God…]

I’d reduce the capitals if language assumes polytheism: thus eg, I agree that there is only one god, God, and believe very much in Romans 1:18-20 (not to start a debate) that ALL persons can know the one who alone is God. Tyrell’s point was that we should not talk in the common polytheistic ways of the OT, which even filtered through somewhat into the NT, and which by and large translators stick with, for it’s easier if all fish swim the same way. For my part, I no longer talk of our wonderful god, or my saving god, or any other kind of god, for there are no kinds of god, unless polytheism is correct.

And though not to start a debate, I agree with you that ultimate heaven is the lot of multitudes who have never even heard of Christ, though I fall shy of Universalism. But in a special sense of eternal life now (Jhn.17:3), there is salus intra ecclesiam (Hans Küng’s The Church, 1986:317).]

 

[GodsGrace]

[I’m not sure what you mean by your first paragraph. I don’t think you mean Church as the Body of Christ.]

Here's what you said, to which I replied that I wasn't sure what you meant by church:
Roman Catholicism has a lot of good to offer and is a fairly good safety net re Christian revelation. That said, I hold it sinful to call it the or a church. There is one church (Mt.16:18), which many denominations,

The reason I didn't understand it is because ANYONE could be a member of the Church of God, as the Body of Christ....of ANY denominaton. I understood you to say that it's sinful to call the CC a church,,,with a small C it doesn't mean what I think you're going to post below. We'll see.
Of course the CC is a church....
Any denomination is a church....(not the Body of Christ, but an institution).

I also would say the CC is the ORIGINAL church...
I'm not commenting on the One and True church because I'm non-denomination as of late and I don't know any denomination that teaches what the early church taught.

There is only one church (assembly) of Christ (Mt.16:18) over the Christian millennia, and each of us who are in Christ, are like a living stone “…being built up into a spiritual temple and a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ” (NCB: 1 Pt.2:15).

Agreed.

At the local level, Christ’s spiritual body is represented in such a way that each assembly may be called, Christ’s church/body, as if they were the total, whereas they represent the total. Into this mix has come many denominations, into which Western Catholicism gradually developed along with Eastern Orthodoxism, and other denominations: the denominations have local churches, but are not Churches,

OK. You differentiated between church and Church.
I think we're agreeing.

let alone The Church. What I hold sinful is to call any denomination a Church:

I see what you mean.
Agreed.

there is one church; one body of Christ. Rome, I know, has liked to think itself the authentic hub. It is not, but has much good from the authentic, original, hub, and is part of the Christian church, a branch of the tree. Likewise, Elim ‘Church’ is sinful to name itself a Church. It likewise is but a denomination, part of the C1 hub, so part of the church.

Agreed, but could you explain this in the above:
"...is part of the Christian church, a branch of the tree. Likewise, Elim ‘Church’ is sinful to name itself a Church. It likewise is but a denomination, part of the C1 hub, so part of the church.".

Had the CC stayed as it was for the first few years, it would be very different today than it is with Catholicism and Orthodoxism, both big denominations, subsections of the one church, each with their departures from and accretions to, the canonical and apostolic hub.

Agreed. My point exactly.

The hub has good representation in many of its offspring, and we can never perfectly revisit it, let alone emulate it, but we can enjoy approximations aware of their fallibility. Nicea certainly added social government and reduced social persecution, but it was hardly the beginning of change. All of life changes, even our genes.

WHEN do you believe the change began?
(of the original CC).

[I agree that there is only One God and believe very much in Romans 1:18-20 (not to start a debate) that ALL persons can know the One, True God…]

I’d reduce the capitals if language assumes polytheism: thus eg, I agree that there is only one god, God, and believe very much in Romans 1:18-20 (not to start a debate) that ALL persons can know the one who alone is God. Tyrell’s point was that we should not talk in the common polytheistic ways of the OT, which even filtered through somewhat into the NT, and which by and large translators stick with, for it’s easier if all fish swim the same way. For my part, I no longer talk of our wonderful god, or my saving god, or any other kind of god, for there are no kinds of god, unless polytheism is correct.

I capitalized to make the point that we must have faith in the CORRECT God.
Buddha is not the correct God.
Could we take this one step further and say that all persons that worship some TYPE of God and obey Him are also saved? It would be an interesting question to which I'd have no reply.

And though not to start a debate, I agree with you that ultimate heaven is the lot of multitudes who have never even heard of Christ, though I fall shy of Universalism. But in a special sense of eternal life now (Jhn.17:3), there is salus intra ecclesiam (Hans Küng’s The Church, 1986:317).]

What do you mean by Salus Intra Ecclesiam?
That there's safety in a church??

 

[Vinny37]

...

I focus on where in this interchange we do or might disagree. I appreciate our agreements.

I maintain that of course Roman Catholicism (likewise Methodism, Elimism, Orthodoxism, etc) is neither the church, nor a church, but at best of the church (Mt.16:18) and has local churches. My nose is not me, but is a part of me: me is the sum of all my parts. If my nose says it’s me, besides becoming a mouth, it has sinned. To some extent all Christian denominations, and inside or outside such, Christians, tap into the original church root. But many ideas, such as Apostolic Succession, have departed from the core NT basis, as did the slow move from local plural episkopoi (later called bishops), to key-city-area episkopoi (eg Alexandria, Jerusalem, Rome), and a primus inter pares pope (Rome), popes being first mooted generations after Peter. As early as Ignatius you can see change from the NT core position, with a church transfer of authority from individual priests—all Christians are priests—to local bishops.

At best, Catholicism is of the original church, but it is not the original church. C S Lewis spoke of Mere Christianity, the mutual corridor leading to many denominational rooms, of which Rome is one. I have happily worshipped in Catholic, Orthodox, Methodist, Salvationist, Baptist, Pentecostal, Charismatic, Reformation, Brethren, churches/groups, all reflecting in some ways and degrees the corridor. Unlike many Protestant denominations, commendably Catholicism has not caved to the current spirit of the Age.

You said, [we must have faith in the CORRECT God]. I say, I decapitalise to say that there is not a correct god, since there is no incorrect god to contrast God to, and the language of polytheism should long ago have been killed off by the stronger monotheism of the NT over the OT revelation: there is one god, God, and God is the eternal society of father, son, and spirit, with a NT bias to use that term for the father (eg 1 Cor.8:6). BTW, the buddha never claimed to be a god, though Emp. Domitian did.

PS: A complexity is that the terms θεοι/elohim, have biblical scope wider than strict monotheism (eg Jhn.10:34)—levels of meaning. My context, however, is of philosophical monotheism, where the so-called gods/goddesses translate out as mere divinities under deity.

Salus intra ecclesiam, denotes the idea of an exclusive salvation-level within Christ’s church, while not in itself implying that other deific levels are absent outside of the church. One cannot worship any other type of god, for polytheism is incorrect: there are no god-types. One can worship God while having different concepts of God, though I think ultimate salvation is deeper than any act, namely a core desire for God. On salvation-levels, see https://archive.org/details/salvation-now-and-life-beyond-241212/Salvation Now and Life Beyond - 250413.pdf.

 

[onlysaved]

Regardless what church you join read the bible,pray and cultivate your own relationship with Jesus.

 

[evenifigoalone]

No worries. I feel that the entire point of Christianity period is to cultivate a relationship with Jesus. In the Catholic practice, I am finding that this is the God I've always worshiped and the faith I'm familiar with, it feels the same even if I've only recently begun to practice the specifically Catholic version. There is so much richness offered in the Catholic tradition, much to glean from, so much more that helps you stay on track imo. At least, my ADHD brain finds the practices of the Catholic tradition to be easier to stick to, with more there to remind me that God should be first in my life.