Real Idea of Gap Creationism

[watchman F]

I agree with what you are saying. I would like to add the following bit of supporting evidence from "When Was The Beginning?" (commonly referred to as The Three Earth Ages teaching):

"..."was" is the English translation of a Hebrew word (hayah) which means "became". In other words, the earth was not created without form and void, but that it became that way at some point in time after it was created." (translation from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance)

Source--Watchmen Bible Study Group (When Was The Beginning?)
http://biblestudysite.com/begin.htm

God Bless You!

The O.P. states in the op and many time that the gap theory is not an attempt to fit the biblical account of creation to the scientific account of billion of years. However that fallacy has been uncovered by the teaching of the gap theorist themselves. The reason you must force a gap into Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 is because science tell you you must.


Here is a quote from the link given above

*1). In the beginning. It states: "In the beginning," but it doesn't say when that was. We know from archeology that this earth is billions of years old. Scientific Carbon Dating does not contradict this verse!

 

[seekandlisten]

Gap Theory is just that, a theory, and really has no basis in Scripture. It is an attempt to make the earth the same age as science says it is, nothing more.

Isn't science the only way of knowing how old the earth is? They do have the dating methods don't they? From what I'm seeing of this gap theory I'm assuming it is just an attempt of trying to make the Bible into a history book and match the relevant data. I don't understand why we can't just accept science as a way to explain our physical world and the Bible as a way to explain the spiritual journey.

cheers

 

[watchman F]

Gap Theory is just that, a theory, and really has no basis in Scripture. It is an attempt to make the earth the same age as science says it is, nothing more.

Isn't science the only way of knowing how old the earth is? They do have the dating methods don't they? From what I'm seeing of this gap theory I'm assuming it is just an attempt of trying to make the Bible into a history book and match the relevant data. I don't understand why we can't just accept science as a way to explain our physical world and the Bible as a way to explain the spiritual journey.

cheers

If we cannot believe Genesis 1 as truth then what would cause us to believe that the rest of the Bible is true?

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi Veteran

Do you believe it was what is spoken about in Rev. 12:15 ?

No. Only Rev.12:3-4 is about it in that chapter.

Hi Veteran:

So where did this water come from in Gen. 1:2 ? And who is responsible for it being there ?[/quote]


Let me try to answer that with asking a question. What does Rev.21:1 mean about "no more sea"?

If the Gap idea is understood that God originally created the earth in a glorious state in the beginning, and this present creation has been placed into "bondage of corruption", then we can only look at what He promised for its future state, and compare that to this present time. That "no more sea" is a time for the coming future glory, and it shows the waters upon the earth today ("sea") being gone. But gone to where? Dried up and non-existant? Ezekiel 47 shows there will still be waters upon the earth, the former and hinder sea, for Christ's Milennium, God's River flowing into it.

After that, we can only speculate. And here's what I speculate on it. Call it my opinion only.

There does exist fossil remains at the earth's Poles that prove at one time the weather there was like a tropic zone. Science has all kinds of theories about that which doesn't fit God's Word. They can't fathom how waters on the earth could be raised up to form a solid cloud covering over the entire earth.[/quote]
-----------------------
Hi Veteran:

All well and good, but you did not answer my question.

Where did this water come from, and who is responsible for this massive amount of water ?

 

[veteran]

The Gap idea is present in the language of Genesis 1:1-10 regardless of how one interprets science about the earth's history. Bible scholars see it written because of what the Scripture states, not because of some preconceived idea of how earth science should be applied to God's Word.

 

[veteran]

Hi Veteran:

All well and good, but you did not answer my question.

Where did this water come from, and who is responsible for this massive amount of water ?

I did answer your question, gave you a major Biblical clue to think about it with "no more sea" in Rev.21:1. Of course our Heavenly Father is Who first created the earth and those waters upon it. When the flood of Noah's day happened, where did all those flood waters covering the earth come from? The same place as those of Gen.1:2 did.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi Veteran:

All well and good, but you did not answer my question.

Where did this water come from, and who is responsible for this massive amount of water ?

I did answer your question, gave you a major Biblical clue to think about it with "no more sea" in Rev.21:1. Of course our Heavenly Father is Who first created the earth and those waters upon it. When the flood of Noah's day happened, where did all those flood waters covering the earth come from? The same place as those of Gen.1:2 did.

Hi V.

Who is responsible ? BTW , this record in Gen. 1:2 is not about the flood of Noah.

 

[veteran]

To show how easy it is to get trapped into men's traditions on what God's Word teaches about earth history, here's another example in Genesis of something many skip over or miss totally.

How many Bible students have missed the subject of Genesis 2 about the river that flowed out of Eden to feed four other rivers upon the earth?

Gen 2:10-14
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
(KJV)


Here's that River in the future on earth...

Rev 22:1-2
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
(KJV)

Ezekiel 47 gives more about that River that will manifest on earth during Christ's future Milennium reign. It originates out from under the threshold of God's House. Yet Genesis 2 is showing us how that River once existed on the earth in God's Eden. That's showing us God's Paradise (Eden) was once upon the earth, and, that it is going to manifest on earth again, starting with Christ's coming. There's going to have to be some earth changes to happen with that.

So is that science, or just spiritual imagining? Obviously God has a level of science way beyond what man can know and understand. Yet at the same time God works in very natural ways. God's Eden and His River on earth in Genesis 2 is there to show us that. By giving us a picture of that River manifesting again in the future, and that picture of Gen.2, He is also giving us a hint about what happened in early earth history, literal comparisons between the previous world, this present world, and the world to come.

 

[veteran]

Hi Veteran:

All well and good, but you did not answer my question.

Where did this water come from, and who is responsible for this massive amount of water ?

I did answer your question, gave you a major Biblical clue to think about it with "no more sea" in Rev.21:1. Of course our Heavenly Father is Who first created the earth and those waters upon it. When the flood of Noah's day happened, where did all those flood waters covering the earth come from? The same place as those of Gen.1:2 did.

Hi V.

Who is responsible ? BTW , this record in Gen. 1:2 is not about the flood of Noah.

You mean what event may have caused God to end HIs original creation at Gen.1:2, and bring waters of a flood over the earth like in the days of Noah? I well know Gen.1:2 is not when the flood of Noah's day happened; I never said it was. So what problem do you have with my answer?

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi Veteran:

All well and good, but you did not answer my question.

Where did this water come from, and who is responsible for this massive amount of water ?

I did answer your question, gave you a major Biblical clue to think about it with "no more sea" in Rev.21:1. Of course our Heavenly Father is Who first created the earth and those waters upon it. When the flood of Noah's day happened, where did all those flood waters covering the earth come from? The same place as those of Gen.1:2 did.

Hi V.

Who is responsible ? BTW , this record in Gen. 1:2 is not about the flood of Noah.

You mean what event may have caused God to end HIs original creation at Gen.1:2, and bring waters of a flood over the earth like in the days of Noah? I well know Gen.1:2 is not when the flood of Noah's day happened; I never said it was. So what problem do you have with my answer?[/quote]


Hi V.

Are you suggesting that God, the creator of the earth, himself was the cause of Gen. 1:2 ? If so, then your suggestion does not make any sense whatsoever.

 

[veteran]

More to consider.

In Jeremiah 4, God is rebuking Israel because of their rebellion against Him. He's getting ready to send the king of Babylon upon Jerusalem to take them captive to Babylon for 70 years. He gave His prophet Jeremiah to prophesy against them in that time. Within that rebuke, God gives them a bit of history of something that He did, and will do again...

Jer 4:22 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

What's this earth being without form, and void, and the heavens having no light doing here? Shouldn't it be only back in Genesis 1:2 where God had first described this condition?

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

When God did that, the mountains trembled and the hills moved. It destroyed that time on the earth. Did the earth tremble back in the time of Noah's flood? Not that I've discovered from Scripture.

In Jeremiah 4, the king of Babylon had not yet come upon Jerusalem to desolate it. So why did our Heavenly Father give this here through Jeremiah at this point? It was to try and remind them of something He did before, a condition He brought upon the earth. He's linking their rebellion with this description of a previous destruction on the earth.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.

Was this the time of Noah? If so, then what is that "without form, and void" (Hebrew tohuw va bohuw) of Gen.1:2 doing here in this description? If Gen.1:2 "without form, and void" is about a state of nothingness before God created the earth, then why is that same idea here about an existing earth that went into corruption because of rebellion, and God destroyed that time by His fierce anger?

27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
(KJV)

These 27 and 28th verses make a distinction of what time God is talking about with this. For this cause (i.e., rebellion), shall the earth mourn and the land shall be desolate, and the heavens above be black. Yet God said He would not make a full end. What's all this about?

Do you recall what Apostle Paul said about the creation groaning and travailing for a release from "the bondage of corruption" God placed it in, and that "not willingly"? (Rom.8) This is not about the destruction of Noah's day. It's about God's creation being placed in a state of imperfectness, in a state of vanity, and it groans for a release, but to what? To the future glory Paul was talking about in Romans 8 that is to be revealed in the future new heavens and a new earth.

What about that "and the heavens above be black"? What does that point to? When you look up at the sky and see dark black clouds what does that show? A storm is coming, rain clouds are forming. Today's violent storm clouds are especially caused by difference in temperature, hot and cold fronts mixing. The sun's heat upon the earth causes evaporation with warm rising pockets of air while high altitude cold air settles downward. The farther apart the temperatures, usually the more violent the storms. It happens because there are holes in our cloud atmosphere around the earth.

That condition of the heavens above us being black may seem very natural to us today, simply because we haven't known any other condition on the earth, like a condition without violent storms. Those Jer.4:27 and 28 verses are revealing this condition of the earth is what God caused because of rebellion against Him. That's why this Message is given in Jeremiah 4, a time when His people were in rebellion against Him.

That's three major Bible witnesses I've given so far that something happened long before Noah's day to cause God to bring a literal destruction upon the earth to make it "without form, and void" (tohuw va bohuw - a waste and undistinguishable ruin), placing His creation in a state of "bondage of corruption", groaning and travailing till now.

 

[veteran]

Hi V.

Who is responsible ? BTW , this record in Gen. 1:2 is not about the flood of Noah.

You mean what event may have caused God to end HIs original creation at Gen.1:2, and bring waters of a flood over the earth like in the days of Noah? I well know Gen.1:2 is not when the flood of Noah's day happened; I never said it was. So what problem do you have with my answer?

Hi V.

Are you suggesting that God, the creator of the earth, himself was the cause of Gen. 1:2 ? If so, then your suggestion does not make any sense whatsoever.

That's what you're saying, not me. I have no such ideas as that in my mind.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi V.

Who is responsible ? BTW , this record in Gen. 1:2 is not about the flood of Noah.

You mean what event may have caused God to end HIs original creation at Gen.1:2, and bring waters of a flood over the earth like in the days of Noah? I well know Gen.1:2 is not when the flood of Noah's day happened; I never said it was. So what problem do you have with my answer?

Hi V.

Are you suggesting that God, the creator of the earth, himself was the cause of Gen. 1:2 ? If so, then your suggestion does not make any sense whatsoever.

That's what you're saying, not me. I have no such ideas as that in my mind.

Hi V.

Then explain who caused the flood (water) and who was responsible.

 

[veteran]

Hi V.

Who is responsible ? BTW , this record in Gen. 1:2 is not about the flood of Noah.

You mean what event may have caused God to end HIs original creation at Gen.1:2, and bring waters of a flood over the earth like in the days of Noah? I well know Gen.1:2 is not when the flood of Noah's day happened; I never said it was. So what problem do you have with my answer?

Hi V.

Are you suggesting that God, the creator of the earth, himself was the cause of Gen. 1:2 ? If so, then your suggestion does not make any sense whatsoever.

That's what you're saying, not me. I have no such ideas as that in my mind.

Hi V.

Then explain who caused the flood (water) and who was responsible.

Did you read my post on Jeremiah 4, the part about rebellion?

 

[seekandlisten]

Gap Theory is just that, a theory, and really has no basis in Scripture. It is an attempt to make the earth the same age as science says it is, nothing more.

Isn't science the only way of knowing how old the earth is? They do have the dating methods don't they? From what I'm seeing of this gap theory I'm assuming it is just an attempt of trying to make the Bible into a history book and match the relevant data. I don't understand why we can't just accept science as a way to explain our physical world and the Bible as a way to explain the spiritual journey.

cheers

If we cannot believe Genesis 1 as truth then what would cause us to believe that the rest of the Bible is true?

I know many people who accept facts as facts and in the process don't claim Genesis to be false. I think the problem lies in what people decide Genesis is referring too more then what it actually says.

cheers

 

[Mysteryman]

More to consider.

In Jeremiah 4, God is rebuking Israel because of their rebellion against Him. He's getting ready to send the king of Babylon upon Jerusalem to take them captive to Babylon for 70 years. He gave His prophet Jeremiah to prophesy against them in that time. Within that rebuke, God gives them a bit of history of something that He did, and will do again...

Jer 4:22 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

What's this earth being without form, and void, and the heavens having no light doing here? Shouldn't it be only back in Genesis 1:2 where God had first described this condition?

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

When God did that, the mountains trembled and the hills moved. It destroyed that time on the earth. Did the earth tremble back in the time of Noah's flood? Not that I've discovered from Scripture.

In Jeremiah 4, the king of Babylon had not yet come upon Jerusalem to desolate it. So why did our Heavenly Father give this here through Jeremiah at this point? It was to try and remind them of something He did before, a condition He brought upon the earth. He's linking their rebellion with this description of a previous destruction on the earth.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.

Was this the time of Noah? If so, then what is that "without form, and void" (Hebrew tohuw va bohuw) of Gen.1:2 doing here in this description? If Gen.1:2 "without form, and void" is about a state of nothingness before God created the earth, then why is that same idea here about an existing earth that went into corruption because of rebellion, and God destroyed that time by His fierce anger?

27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
(KJV)

These 27 and 28th verses make a distinction of what time God is talking about with this. For this cause (i.e., rebellion), shall the earth mourn and the land shall be desolate, and the heavens above be black. Yet God said He would not make a full end. What's all this about?

Do you recall what Apostle Paul said about the creation groaning and travailing for a release from "the bondage of corruption" God placed it in, and that "not willingly"? (Rom.8) This is not about the destruction of Noah's day. It's about God's creation being placed in a state of imperfectness, in a state of vanity, and it groans for a release, but to what? To the future glory Paul was talking about in Romans 8 that is to be revealed in the future new heavens and a new earth.

What about that "and the heavens above be black"? What does that point to? When you look up at the sky and see dark black clouds what does that show? A storm is coming, rain clouds are forming. Today's violent storm clouds are especially caused by difference in temperature, hot and cold fronts mixing. The sun's heat upon the earth causes evaporation with warm rising pockets of air while high altitude cold air settles downward. The farther apart the temperatures, usually the more violent the storms. It happens because there are holes in our cloud atmosphere around the earth.

That condition of the heavens above us being black may seem very natural to us today, simply because we haven't known any other condition on the earth, like a condition without violent storms. Those Jer.4:27 and 28 verses are revealing this condition of the earth is what God caused because of rebellion against Him. That's why this Message is given in Jeremiah 4, a time when His people were in rebellion against Him.

That's three major Bible witnesses I've given so far that something happened long before Noah's day to cause God to bring a literal destruction upon the earth to make it "without form, and void" (tohuw va bohuw - a waste and undistinguishable ruin), placing His creation in a state of "bondage of corruption", groaning and travailing till now.

Hi Veteran:

I asked you if you thought that God was the cause of Gen. 1:2 and your reply was this >

Quote: "That's what you're saying, not me. I have no such ideas as that in my mind.

Your explanation above is not in line with your reply to me, here ! ! I put your comments in bold and underline above within your statement.

So you do believe that God was the cause ? !

 

[veteran]

More to consider.

In Jeremiah 4, God is rebuking Israel because of their rebellion against Him. He's getting ready to send the king of Babylon upon Jerusalem to take them captive to Babylon for 70 years. He gave His prophet Jeremiah to prophesy against them in that time. Within that rebuke, God gives them a bit of history of something that He did, and will do again...

Jer 4:22 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

What's this earth being without form, and void, and the heavens having no light doing here? Shouldn't it be only back in Genesis 1:2 where God had first described this condition?

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

When God did that, the mountains trembled and the hills moved. It destroyed that time on the earth. Did the earth tremble back in the time of Noah's flood? Not that I've discovered from Scripture.

In Jeremiah 4, the king of Babylon had not yet come upon Jerusalem to desolate it. So why did our Heavenly Father give this here through Jeremiah at this point? It was to try and remind them of something He did before, a condition He brought upon the earth. He's linking their rebellion with this description of a previous destruction on the earth.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.

Was this the time of Noah? If so, then what is that "without form, and void" (Hebrew tohuw va bohuw) of Gen.1:2 doing here in this description? If Gen.1:2 "without form, and void" is about a state of nothingness before God created the earth, then why is that same idea here about an existing earth that went into corruption because of rebellion, and God destroyed that time by His fierce anger?

27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
(KJV)

These 27 and 28th verses make a distinction of what time God is talking about with this. For this cause (i.e., rebellion), shall the earth mourn and the land shall be desolate, and the heavens above be black. Yet God said He would not make a full end. What's all this about?

Do you recall what Apostle Paul said about the creation groaning and travailing for a release from "the bondage of corruption" God placed it in, and that "not willingly"? (Rom.8) This is not about the destruction of Noah's day. It's about God's creation being placed in a state of imperfectness, in a state of vanity, and it groans for a release, but to what? To the future glory Paul was talking about in Romans 8 that is to be revealed in the future new heavens and a new earth.

What about that "and the heavens above be black"? What does that point to? When you look up at the sky and see dark black clouds what does that show? A storm is coming, rain clouds are forming. Today's violent storm clouds are especially caused by difference in temperature, hot and cold fronts mixing. The sun's heat upon the earth causes evaporation with warm rising pockets of air while high altitude cold air settles downward. The farther apart the temperatures, usually the more violent the storms. It happens because there are holes in our cloud atmosphere around the earth.

That condition of the heavens above us being black may seem very natural to us today, simply because we haven't known any other condition on the earth, like a condition without violent storms. Those Jer.4:27 and 28 verses are revealing this condition of the earth is what God caused because of rebellion against Him. That's why this Message is given in Jeremiah 4, a time when His people were in rebellion against Him.

That's three major Bible witnesses I've given so far that something happened long before Noah's day to cause God to bring a literal destruction upon the earth to make it "without form, and void" (tohuw va bohuw - a waste and undistinguishable ruin), placing His creation in a state of "bondage of corruption", groaning and travailing till now.

Hi Veteran:

I asked you if you thought that God was the cause of Gen. 1:2 and your reply was this >

Quote: "That's what you're saying, not me. I have no such ideas as that in my mind.

Your explanation above is not in line with your reply to me, here ! ! I put your comments in bold and underline above within your statement.

So you do believe that God was the cause ? !

Like I said before, the idea of God being the cause is what you say; such a thought never entered my mind. Why would any believer ever think that our Heavenly Father Himself was the cause of that destruction? Maybe you still need to read what I covered there in Jer.4 once again, and note the word rebellion.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote Veteran: "24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

When God did that, the mountains trembled and the hills moved. It destroyed that time on the earth."

Hi Veteran:

Here again you are suggesting that God was the cause !

 

[veteran]

Quote Veteran: "24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

When God did that, the mountains trembled and the hills moved. It destroyed that time on the earth."

Hi Veteran:

Here again you are suggesting that God was the cause !

Don't get wacko with me. God's destruction of that time was the RESULT of rebellion on the earth; He was not the CAUSE behind that! God is not the cause of rebellion, got it?!

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote Veteran: "24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

When God did that, the mountains trembled and the hills moved. It destroyed that time on the earth."

Hi Veteran:

Here again you are suggesting that God was the cause !

Don't get wacko with me. God's destruction of that time was the RESULT of rebellion on the earth; He was not the CAUSE behind that! God is not the cause of rebellion, got it?!

Hi Veteran:

I fully understand the rebellion that occured in heaven, and God throwing out one third of the angels out of heaven. But now you are suggesting that there was a rebellion here upon the earth in Gen. 1:2.

The rebellion took place in heaven, not here on earth !

Again your words --- "God's destruction of that time" < Is a clear indication, that you are calling it God's destruction !

Let me point out to you once again, that in Rev. 12:15 that it was the serpent that was the "cause" of the flood (water) in Gen. 1:2 ! !