Reality of Heaven and Hell

[jgredline]

Hi Gabby,

I don't believe a loving God will torment people in hell forever. Even I don't think I can do to anyone such thing just because someone did evil to me or my loved ones... much less a God of love.

I believe something is wrong in interpretation.

I am not here to argue with anyone. I am here to share how I understand the Bible.

peace

Amen to that!

I would like to suggest the chapter 57 of Swedenborg's book titled "Heaven and its wonders and Hells from things seen and heard" which clearly informs that the Lord does not cast anyone into hell -

The Lord Casts No One Into Hell; the Spirit Casts Himself Down - http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh57.html

WHAT?
What bible have you been reading??
First understand, that God does not send anybody to hell. People by rejecting his son choose hell instead. Its not even possible to be a Christian in my opinion and reject the concept of hell being a real place. If Hell is not real, then Heaven is not real. If there is no hell, then there is no satan/devil
If there is no devil then there is no God.

Really guys, gals and Poke, wake up.
Repent and be baptized.

 

[lily of God]

Hi everyone,

Don't you think spiritual death is a big punishment enough for you?

peace

 

[Poke]

First understand, that God does not send anybody to hell. People by rejecting his son choose hell instead. Its not even possible to be a Christian in my opinion and reject the concept of hell being a real place. If Hell is not real, then Heaven is not real. If there is no hell, then there is no satan/devil
If there is no devil then there is no God.

Your yin/yang theology is pagan, eastern, not biblical.

 

[jgredline]

Hi everyone,

Don't you think spiritual death is a big punishment enough for you?

peace

Please provide scripture and verse where this is taught in the bible.
Thanks Jg

 

[jgredline]

First understand, that God does not send anybody to hell. People by rejecting his son choose hell instead. Its not even possible to be a Christian in my opinion and reject the concept of hell being a real place. If Hell is not real, then Heaven is not real. If there is no hell, then there is no satan/devil
If there is no devil then there is no God.

Your yin/yang theology is pagan, eastern, not biblical.

Poke
Coming from you, your thoughts mean nothing to me. You have plenty to say but don't have any verses to back up your false theology.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Hi everyone,

Don't you think spiritual death is a big punishment enough for you?

peace

I believe that God is righteous. He is a righteous judge. He decided to show grace and mercy to those who decided to return to Him. Whatever puhishment He decides for the wicked is a righteous judgment.

The Bible teaches that hell is a reality. Don't you think we should stick to scripture?

 

[jgredline]

Hi everyone,

Don't you think spiritual death is a big punishment enough for you?

peace

I believe that God is righteous. He is a righteous judge. He decided to show grace and mercy to those who decided to return to Him. Whatever puhishment He decides for the wicked is a righteous judgment.

The Bible teaches that hell is a reality. Don't you think we should stick to scripture?

Gabby
A giant AMEN to that !!!

 

[Quath]

Rev. John Furniss wrote a book for children in 1855 to explain hell to them. Here is one passage from it:

Psalm 21:9 Thou shalt make him as an oven of fire in the time of thy anger.

You are going to see again the child about which you read in the Terrible Judgement, that it was condemned to hell. See! It is a pitiful sight. The little child is in this red hot oven. Hear how it screams to come out. See how it turns and twists itself about in the fire. It beats its head against the roof of the oven. It stamps its little feet on the floor of the oven. You can see on the face of this little child what you see on the faces of all in hell-- despair, desperate and horrible! The same law which is for others is also for children. If children, knowingly and willingly, break God's commandments, they must also be punished like others. This child committed very bad mortal sins, knowing well the harm of what it was doing, and knowing that hell would be the punishment. God was very good to this child. Very likely God saw that this child would get worse and worse, and would never repent, and so it would have to be punished much more in hell. So God, in His mercy, called it out of the world in its early childhood.

This man calls God "good" even though he believes that God would burn a baby in an oven for all of eternity. I wonder how many Christians today would agree with him on that.

However, even if it were Hitler in that oven, it would be way too evil of an act. I would not wish such torment on anyone. How could God be called "Good" if he would cause an infinite amount of suffering when there is no need to?

 

[jgredline]

However, even if it were Hitler in that oven, it would be way too evil of an act. I would not wish such torment on anyone. How could God be called "Good" if he would cause an infinite amount of suffering when there is no need to?

First off all God is Holy. And because God is Holy we can't approach a Holy God because we are unrighteous.

Rom 3:10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

Rom 2:5
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

The above two verses are for the non believer

but now through Jesus Christ we are made Righteouse
rom 5:18-19
18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

5:18 The offense of Adam brought condemnation to all men, but the righteous act of Christ brought justification of life to all. The righteous act was not the Savior’s life or His keeping of the law, but rather His substitutionary death on Calvary. This is what brought justification of lifeâ€â€that is, the justification that results in lifeâ€â€and brought it to all men.
The two alls in this verse do not refer to the same people. The first all means all who are in Adam. The second all means all who are in Christ. This is clear from the words in the preceding verse “those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness ... .†The gift must be received by faith. Only those who trust the Lord receive justification of life.
5:19 Just as by Adam’s disobedience to God’s command many were made sinners, so also by Christ’s obedience to the Father many who trust Him are declared righteous. Christ’s obedience led Him to the cross as our Sin bearer.
It is futile for universalists to use these verses to try to prove that all men will eventually be saved. The passage deals with two federal headships, and it is clear that just as Adam’s sin affects those who are “in him,†so Christ’s righteous act benefits only those who are “in Him.€Â

Quath
When you are born again, you will fully understand. I pray it will be soon.
Jg

 

[mutzrein]

Any takers to my question?

 

[jgredline]

Any takers to my question?

Mutz
I don't really understand your question.
Can you rephraze?

 

[golfjack]

reply

With the unsaved it is a matter of the heart (our spirits) Mark 7:21-23 tells us what comes out of the heart of the lost. The problem is in the heart, the inward man, the spirit. Apart from Christ, The Bible says every man is rotten in the heart. Jesus said of those he called hypocrites, for ye are like unto whited sepukchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of men's bones, and all uncleaness ( Matt. 23:27). This is why we must be redeemed to enter heaven before a Holy God.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

As long as a person stands on the premise that the good go to heaven and the bad go to hell, the dealings of a righteous God with man, will be a mystery.

On the one had we have those who cannot accept that a righteous and just God would condemn people to an eternal punishment in hell for ‘sins’ they didn’t commit. And on the other we have the ‘righteous’ who believe they have to save the lost from the judgement that will send them there.

So I would like to ask people from the latter camp, what they see as the (spiritual) difference between those who (in their eyes) are going to hell and those who are going to heaven.

Jesus is the difference.

 

[mutzrein]

Christendom believes (in general) that those who are Christians are going to heaven and the rest will go to hell. Forgive me if I have placed you in this camp but I am just generalising. If you do see this any differently please enlighten as to what you believe.

But on the basis of the 'good' going to heaven and the 'bad' going to hell what do you see as the difference (spiritually) between these two groups - ie the 'good' and the 'bad' or the 'christian' and the 'non-christian'.

 

[mutzrein]

Jesus is the difference.

So what was it that was accomplished by Jesus?

 

[Quath]

When you are born again, you will fully understand. I pray it will be soon.

You are talking about people getting into heaven. What I am talking about is sending people to hell. God could easily remove someone from existance rather than torture them for all of eternity. Or if he didn't want to remove them from existance, he still doesn't have to torture them. He could send them to another afterlife that has no torture, but is separate from heaven.

 

[jgredline]

When you are born again, you will fully understand. I pray it will be soon.

You are talking about people getting into heaven. What I am talking about is sending people to hell. God could easily remove someone from existance rather than torture them for all of eternity. Or if he didn't want to remove them from existance, he still doesn't have to torture them. He could send them to another afterlife that has no torture, but is separate from heaven.

Quath
I stand by my earlier post.

First off all God is Holy. And because God is Holy we can't approach a Holy God because we are unrighteous.

Rom 3:10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

Rom 2:5
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

The above two verses are for the non believer

but now through Jesus Christ we are made Righteouse
rom 5:18-19
18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

5:18 The offense of Adam brought condemnation to all men, but the righteous act of Christ brought justification of life to all. The righteous act was not the Savior’s life or His keeping of the law, but rather His substitutionary death on Calvary. This is what brought justification of lifeâ€â€that is, the justification that results in lifeâ€â€and brought it to all men.
The two alls in this verse do not refer to the same people. The first all means all who are in Adam. The second all means all who are in Christ. This is clear from the words in the preceding verse “those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness ... .†The gift must be received by faith. Only those who trust the Lord receive justification of life.
5:19 Just as by Adam’s disobedience to God’s command many were made sinners, so also by Christ’s obedience to the Father many who trust Him are declared righteous. Christ’s obedience led Him to the cross as our Sin bearer.
It is futile for universalists to use these verses to try to prove that all men will eventually be saved. The passage deals with two federal headships, and it is clear that just as Adam’s sin affects those who are “in him,†so Christ’s righteous act benefits only those who are “in Him.â€Â

I know its hard to understand. I have had this discussion with non believers before and I have no answer that will satisfy you. The bottom Line is simply this. God created the heavens and the earth. God set up his plan his way. God established and gave us all a free will as is evidence when Eve choose to eat the forbiden fruit. We have the choice of heaven or hell. The real question is this. Do you believe in a literall hell? If so, then you need to consider the grace that is there for you to accept that is placed on the cross. If you don't believe that hell is literall, then there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal it to you in a way that will make sense to you. This of course would be true if you have your ears open to hear his voice.
Blessings to you quath.
Javier

 

[Quath]

The real question is this. Do you believe in a literall hell? If so, then you need to consider the grace that is there for you to accept that is placed on the cross. If you don't believe that hell is literall, then there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal it to you in a way that will make sense to you. This of course would be true if you have your ears open to hear his voice.

To me a literal hell and a good God are opposite ideas. I would not be able to reconcile it if I were a believer.

 

[jgredline]

The real question is this. Do you believe in a literall hell? If so, then you need to consider the grace that is there for you to accept that is placed on the cross. If you don't believe that hell is literall, then there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal it to you in a way that will make sense to you. This of course would be true if you have your ears open to hear his voice.

To me a literal hell and a good God are opposite ideas. I would not be able to reconcile it if I were a believer.

On the contrary my friend. If where a believer, you would understand it clear as day because the Holy Spirit will give you understanding.

 

[Quath]

On the contrary my friend. If where a believer, you would understand it clear as day because the Holy Spirit will give you understanding.

Do the Christians that disagree with you not have the holy spirit?