Realizing the bible was canonized by ecumenical councils over long periods of years....

[Corn Pop]

There are some who, read Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. exactly as it is written this runs into a huge theological study... of different views.. yet still with in the realms Christianity . Some folks separate Luke from the same story in Matthew which we label the Olivet Discourse . This is not a salvation issue. A discussion on this woudl have to have its own thread...

kiwidan when we use terms like Unless he is a liar. referring to Jesus it really lessens the conversation

Why should Jesus saying "there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God", run into huge theological study?. Is Jesus complicated?

I'm not calling Jesus half pie or a liar. I believe Jesus and i believe he doesn't delay and i accept Jesus salvation.

If people dont want to accept salvation because until the Son of Man returns there is no salvation, and they want to live under the Law of the flesh and be blameless under the Law, then thats there choice.

But that's just the truth right?. Jesus come once to sacrifice for sin and his return is to bring salvation. So no return yet is no salvation, so must still live under the Law of the flesh and try be blameless, like Paul, a Jew who had the law, who shaved his head and gave a vow while eagerly waiting Jesus return.

 

[civilwarbuff]

But that's just the truth right?. Jesus come once to sacrifice for sin and his return is to bring salvation. So no return yet is no salvation, so must still live under the Law of the flesh and try be blameless, like Paul, a Jew who had the law, who shaved his head and gave a vow while eagerly waiting Jesus return.

So KD, since you are living under the law have you made any sacrifices recently?.....that is what the law calls for when you sin, a blood sacrifice.

 

[Corn Pop]

So KD, since you are living under the law have you made any sacrifices recently?.....that is what the law calls for when you sin, a blood sacrifice.

I dont live under the Law of the flesh. To the pure all things are pure. How can we sin when we have been restored?

Why would I oppress myself and let the flesh overcome?

 

[civilwarbuff]

I dont live under the Law of the flesh. To the pure all things are pure. How can we sin when we have been restored?

Why would I oppress myself

But it is what you said, that you live under the law of flesh...

So no return yet is no salvation, so must still live under the Law of the flesh and try be blameless, like Paul, a Jew who had the law, who shaved his head and gave a vow while eagerly waiting Jesus return.

 

[Nick]

Are you aware that Paul's teachings differed from Jesus', through his apostles?

Perhaps you could elaborate?

We should be careful not to take this too far off topic.

 

[Corn Pop]

But it is what you said, that you live under the law of flesh...

I mean it as if people don't believe Christ has returned they still live under the Law so can be blameless, like Paul who was waiting for Jesus return why still under the law as he shaved his head and gave vow, if believe he has returned then take salvation and live free.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I don't believe He has returned but I do believe I have salvation and am indwelt by the Holy Spirit......there is no way a person can mistake that experience........

 

[Corn Pop]

I don't believe He has returned but I do believe I have salvation and am indwelt by the Holy Spirit......there is no way a person can mistake that experience........

But you still live under the Law right?.

 

[civilwarbuff]

But you still live under the Law right?.

No, I live under Grace as do all believers.

 

[Corn Pop]

No, I live under Grace as do all believers.

But what about not sinning anymore?. Do you still believe the law stands like Paul said.

 

[Free]

Why should Jesus saying "there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God", run into huge theological study?. Is Jesus complicated?

How we see things makes coming to a proper understanding complicated. Note my response to this on the previous page.

I'm not calling Jesus half pie or a liar. I believe Jesus and i believe he doesn't delay and i accept Jesus salvation.

If people dont want to accept salvation because until the Son of Man returns there is no salvation, and they want to live under the Law of the flesh and be blameless under the Law, then thats there choice.

But that's just the truth right?. Jesus come once to sacrifice for sin and his return is to bring salvation. So no return yet is no salvation, so must still live under the Law of the flesh and try be blameless, like Paul, a Jew who had the law, who shaved his head and gave a vow while eagerly waiting Jesus return.

Jesus's not having returned has nothing to do with salvation.

When do you think that Jesus returned?

 

[Corn Pop]

Maybe its just my experience because Christianity put a burden on me and the Law. I was trying to be blameless in the flesh living under Gods grace.

 

[civilwarbuff]

But what about not sinning anymore?. Do you still believe the law stands like Paul said.

Sorry KD, but you are jumping all over the place and I am having trouble following your train of thought. Maybe this will help.....
The Old Covenant was a set of “external regulations applying until the time of the new order” (Hebrews 9:10). Upon Jesus’ death and resurrection, the external regulations gave way to an internal change of heart (see Galatians 6:15). The Old Covenant was fulfilled in Christ (Matthew 5:17). “The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves” (Hebrews 10:1). “The reality . . . is found in Christ” (Colossians 2:17). The New Covenant involves a superior ministry (of Christ), is “established on better promises,” and is, in fact, “superior to the old [covenant]” (Hebrews 8:6).

Even while the Old Covenant stood, God had planned the New Covenant. The two work together to show people their need for God and then to fulfill that need. The Old Covenant required people to please God, but no one can measure up to perfection, and the Old Covenant resulted in a string of failures. “Through the law we become conscious of our sin” (Romans 3:20). The Old Covenant established our guilt before God and our need for a Savior. The Old Covenant was never intended to save us; in fact, “the old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life” (2 Corinthians 3:6, NLT).
https://www.gotquestions.org/old-covenant.html

 

[Corn Pop]

How we see things makes coming to a proper understanding complicated. Note my response to this on the previous page.


Jesus's not having returned has nothing to do with salvation.

When do you think that Jesus returned?

But until Jesus returns and brings salvation people try and live blameless, and because the flesh is corrupt its a burden. Like Paul who said over and over to be blameless till that day, saved but stand upright and be perfect dont sin as they were eagerly waiting Christs return, so the Law obviously still stands to those who are waiting his return.

If it didn't stand then no one would need to repent.

 

[Corn Pop]

It is amazing because lust of the flesh is seen as a sin but its natural. Adam lusted Eve and he was spotless, Eve lusted the fruit and she was spotless.

 

[jasonc]

But until Jesus returns and brings salvation people try and live blameless, and because the flesh is corrupt its a burden. Like Paul who said over and over to be blameless till that day, saved but stand upright and be perfect dont sin as they were eagerly waiting Christs return, so the Law obviously still stands to those who are waiting his return.

If it didn't stand then no one would need to repent.

Blameless in the tanach,didn't mean perfection only that person was forgiven and following the torah of God as best as he could.after the criss this means relying on the atonement of the blood .it's not about us bUT His work.this doesn't mean works to be saved,but work as evidence of salvation

 

[OzSpen]

Well for instance, emperor Constantine convened the Nicene council in order to arrive at the Nicene creed as we know it. I'm wondering if the canon process after that over the years were the same. Overseen and convened by Roman authority. Being as I understand , the Roman's Catholic doctrine preceded the Protestant.

My inderstanding is that the Council at Nicea was called to deal with the heresy of Arius - Unitarianism. Out of the Council came confirmation of the Trinity.

By AD 170, parts of 22 NT books were available, known as Muratorian Canon (MC). You could do a comparison of MC & final canon of NT in AD 397 to see if there were any changes.

If you want some history on these matters, read Phillip Schaff, The History of the Christian Church. It's available online.

Oz

 

[Jim Parker]

Were those councils of Roman origin?

The councils were attended by the leaders of the church.
Only bishops could vote.

 

[Sister Christian]

No help?
Thanks.

Roman's were largely involved in the Canonization process, yes.
This may be something you'll find helpful in your studies. https://christianheritagefellowship.com/canonization-of-the-bible/

 

[Jim Parker]

Are you aware that Paul's teachings differed from Jesus', through his apostles?

That is patently false.
There is only ONE Gospel.
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God
Rom 15:15-16 But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
Rom 15:18-19 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has wrought through me to win obedience from the Gentiles, by word and deed, by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Holy Spirit, so that from Jerusalem and as far round as Illyr'icum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ,
2Co 2:12 When I came to Tro'as to preach the gospel of Christ, ...
2Co 10:14 For we are not overextending ourselves, as though we did not reach you; we were the first to come all the way to you with the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:7 not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

If your church is teaching you that there are two Gospels, that church is in heresy.

Run!!!

But that's just my opinion.
And what do I know.
I'm just

iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


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