Considering the early Church compiled the New Testament, what authority did they have to do so—and do you recognise that same authority today?

Why would the institution that GAVE you scripture make up something in contradiction with it? What would the Church have to gain from this?
What institution gave us scripture as I thought it was the written letters of the Apostles that God inspired them to write and give to the body of Christ.

Does the Catholic church save us, or any denomination/non-denomination, or are we saved by the blood of Christ through God's grace that we can reconcile ourselves before Him.
 
Do you want to stay in this discussion or not? Your trolling is very disrespectful and against the ToS. Either get serious or you won't remain in this thread.
I AM serious.
 
What institution gave us scripture as I thought it was the written letters of the Apostles that God inspired them to write and give to the body of Christ.

Does the Catholic church save us, or any denomination/non-denomination, or are we saved by the blood of Christ through God's grace that we can reconcile ourselves before Him.
So everyone just woke up one day with a fully bound Bible in their language? Is that what you thought happened?
 
So everyone just woke up one day with a fully bound Bible in their language? Is that what you thought happened?
Yes, after the invention of the printing press in 1440 as Bibles were produced in many different languages. Before the invention of the printing press the Bible that is made up from the letters of the Prophets and Apostles (Dead Sea Scrolls) were hand written typically by scribes using parchment made of animal skin or papyrus that was a plant based paper. First written on scrolls and later bound books. Before the printing press Bibles were not readily available to everyone.

The carnal mind cannot perceive the things of the Spirit and many are taught from a carnal understanding as they can not perceive the things of the Spirit as it's all foolishness to them. This is not only found in the Roman Catholic church, but many tradition churches. The word of God remains a mystery to those who are not Spiritually born again from above and indwelled with the Holy Spirit teaching them all things God wants us to learn.

1Cor 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Cor 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cor 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Cor 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Cor 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Cor2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Cor 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
 
So everyone just woke up one day with a fully bound Bible in their language? Is that what you thought happened?
Unfortunately those of the Roman Catholic Church were not allowed to own a KJV Bible other than a Catholic version rewritten by the Roman Catholic Church that contains the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church. This is why Mass was always done in Latin as many could not read or understand Latin and just accepted it as being authoritative. I know this because my mother was raised a Catholic, but now a Spiritually born again Christian. My ex-nephew years ago was not allowed to receive the KJV Bible I bought for him when he went through Confirmation classes.

2Tim 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Tim 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Tim 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
m3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Tim 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
m3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
 
Yes, after the invention of the printing press in 1440 as Bibles were produced in many different languages. Before the invention of the printing press the Bible that is made up from the letters of the Prophets and Apostles (Dead Sea Scrolls) were hand written typically by scribes using parchment made of animal skin or papyrus that was a plant based paper. First written on scrolls and later bound books. Before the printing press Bibles were not readily available to everyone.

The carnal mind cannot perceive the things of the Spirit and many are taught from a carnal understanding as they can not perceive the things of the Spirit as it's all foolishness to them. This is not only found in the Roman Catholic church, but many tradition churches. The word of God remains a mystery to those who are not Spiritually born again from above and indwelled with the Holy Spirit teaching them all things God wants us to learn.

1Cor 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Cor 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cor 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Cor 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Cor 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Cor2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Cor 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
So...no. The Church had the Bible beforehand. The Church produced the Bible.
 
I AM serious.
Then please answer my questions: When does Jesus say that the wheat and tares are to be harvested? Harvest time. When do you think harvest time is, has it happened or is it yet to happen? Based on those things, what does the kingdom of heaven have to do with the Church?
 
Why are you asking ME? Do you want me to interpret scripture for you?
Because that is how debating and discussions work. If you’re asking that question, then what are you even doing in this thread?

I am asking very basic questions, so is it that you do not know how to interpret Scripture or are you afraid of doing it on your own without permission or are you just continuing with your trolling?
 
Because that is how debating and discussions work. If you’re asking that question, then what are you even doing in this thread?

I am asking very basic questions, so is it that you do not know how to interpret Scripture or are you afraid of doing it on your own without permission or are you just continuing with your trolling?
YES but YOU believe in Sola Scriptura, no? So you believe the INDIVIDUAL must interpret scripture. I DON'T. The Church interprets scripture. If I were to take scripture at face value...Jesus is just talking about farming. But I understand it's a parable with a deeper meaning because the CHURCH TEACHES THIS.
 
YES but YOU believe in Sola Scriptura, no? So you believe the INDIVIDUAL must interpret scripture. I DON'T. The Church interprets scripture.
This is absolutely, completely, utterly, 100% irrelevant to the discussion. It’s your way of trolling by putting down Protestantism and promoting your particular view of the “Church.” I’ve seen you use this tactic many times previously.

If I were to take scripture at face value...Jesus is just talking about farming.
No, if you were to take it at face vaule, you would understand that it’s a parable that teaches something about the kingdom of heaven.

But I understand it's a parable with a deeper meaning because the CHURCH TEACHES THIS.
The Church has nothing to do with understanding that it’s a parable. Jesus pretty much tells us it is, from a plain reading of the text. And the meaning is pretty simple and straightforward.

Are you going to answer my questions or not? If you can’t, then at least have the honesty to say so, so I can help you and we can get this discussion back on track.
 
No, if you were to take it at face vaule, you would understand that it’s a parable that teaches something about the kingdom of heaven.
That's not how 'face value' works. He is LITERALLY talking about wheat.
The Church has nothing to do with understanding that it’s a parable. Jesus pretty much tells us it is, from a plain reading of the text. And the meaning is pretty simple and straightforward.
How did YOU figure it out.

Sorry. Which questions?
 
That's not how 'face value' works. He is LITERALLY talking about wheat.
Yes, it is how face value works. You really don't understand how to interpret Scripture, do you? Your church does it for you and that has left you unable to understand the Bible for yourself. Don't you think we should follow the example of the Bereans, who, in hearing Paul and Silas teach, were "examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so" (Acts 17:10-11)?

The Bereans were checking the OT daily to see if what Paul, an apostle, was teaching was true. It seems to me that we should do the same. It is clear from this that what the Church teaches must come from the Bible and that every believer has the responsibility to make sure that the Church's teachings come directly from the Bible and nowhere else.

How did YOU figure it out.
By reading what it plainly and clearly states.

Sorry. Which questions?
I've asked you them more than once. Go back and figure it out. Once again, you need to start taking this discussion seriously.
 
Yes, it is how face value works. You really don't understand how to interpret Scripture, do you? Your church does it for you and that has left you unable to understand the Bible for yourself
The Bible is not for ME to interpret. That would be prideful. Why would I be a better interpreter of scripture than the spiritual successors of the Apostles whom Christ established His Church upon?
It seems to me that we should do the same
"Seems". You don't sound certain
By reading what it plainly and clearly states.
Jesus is talking about wheat. Or does it have another meaning? If so, does your meaning 'coincidentally' match the interpretation that the Church has had for millennia?
Go back and figure it out
My personal interpretation is that I already answered your questions
 
Then please answer my questions: When does Jesus say that the wheat and tares are to be harvested? Harvest time. When do you think harvest time is, has it happened or is it yet to happen? Based on those things, what does the kingdom of heaven have to do with the Church?
The harvest is at the end of the age, not now. It is a future event tied to Christ’s return and the final judgment. Until then, the Church on earth is a mixed reality—both the wheat and the tares are present. The Kingdom of Heaven is mystically present in the Church through the sacraments and the presence of the Holy Spirit (we experience this when physically present at Liturgy, so come along to experience it too!), but its full manifestation awaits the end of time.

Thus, the Orthodox Church resists attempts to identify the Kingdom of Heaven fully and exclusively with any visible institution, recognizing the Church as a divine-human reality that participates in the Kingdom now, while also awaiting its fulfillment.

Not my opinion. This is what the Church teaches.
 
can you explain what it means to be Spiritually born again?
being born again means to be reborn through Holy Baptism and the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is not just a personal feeling or emotional moment—it is a sacramental reality, something God does in us.


Jesus said in John 3:5:


“Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.”

The Church understands this as referring to Baptism and Chrismation (anointing with holy oil). Through these sacraments:


  1. Our old, sinful self dies with Christ in baptismal waters.
  2. We rise with Him into new life—just like Christ rose from the dead.
  3. We receive the Holy Spirit through Chrismation (confirmation), which empowers us to live as part of the Body of Christ.

This is how we are spiritually born again: not just as individuals who now "believe," but as new creations joined to Christ and His Church.
 
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