Reasons why you are very unwise to trust your church’s doctrines

[Deborah13]

I thought Matthew 7:21-23 was scripture that supports that some will have lost their salvation. They may even still think they have it until God says depart from me I never knew you.

The point that I always try to make is, it's not that they were saved and lost their salvation, but that they thought they were saved and were not.

"I never knew you" indicates the Holy Spirit was never a part of the lives of these individuals. By their actions it is obvious that they believed in God, but their belief was not enough. They believed in their heart that they were worthy enough to enter the Kingdom of Heaven..........................but they were wrong.

How many today hold this same belief?
.

I think maybe we can see what the problem was.
Their proclamation was look at what we did. And what they did were things that would bring them easy recognition. People love signs and wonders. They don't say things like we gave to poor, we sheltered the homeless, we preached the Gospel message to the lost.

 

[jeff77]

The point that I always try to make is, it's not that they were saved and lost their salvation, but that they thought they were saved and were not.

"I never knew you" indicates the Holy Spirit was never a part of the lives of these individuals. By their actions it is obvious that they believed in God, but their belief was not enough. They believed in their heart that they were worthy enough to enter the Kingdom of Heaven..........................but they were wrong.

How many today hold this same belief?
.

I think many hold the belief that all one must do is say the prayer and simply believe in the existence of God and that's good enough.

 

[reba]

wish i didn't agree jeff77

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

wish i didn't agree jeff77

Knowing that, though, there is the potential to "save some as though by(from) fire" (looking for the ref).>>(Jude)



If you thought as they did, that they were saved, then there would be no use trying to help them come to the truth(which is the only thing(in Christ Jesus) that can set them free), and you might unwittingly make them stronger in their unbelief. To the martyrs, this is crystal clear in faith. To those who are comfy, cozy and comfortable, ... ... Jesus has a lot of work to do; come quickly Lord Jesus, come quickly!

 

[DRS81]

I think many hold the belief that all one must do is say the prayer and simply believe in the existence of God and that's good enough.

Believing in the (heart) that God raised Jesus from the dead is difficult for many people.

 

[Obadiah]

Believing in the (heart) that God raised Jesus from the dead is difficult for many people.

As difficult as that may be, that is what is required. Belief only that God exists isn't enough.

"You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror." (James 2:19, NLT)

 

[DRS81]

As difficult as that may be, that is what is required. Belief only that God exists isn't enough.

"You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror." (James 2:19, NLT)

Well said Obadiah.
Belief that 'God' exists gets them thinking though,
but to complete the process one must accept Lord Jesus as their Savior.
The result of faith is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
That's why many end up finding God in desperation,
admitting we need a Savior is very difficult for many.
Demons don't admit this, that's the difference.
- DRS81

 

[John Zain]

“Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that
no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” (1 John 3:15)

The extreme example of this is …
the mafia killer who goes to mass every week, and dutifully confesses his sins to his priest.

Evidently, he has been raised to believe that this will get him into heaven!

Who’s fault is this? … It must be the church’s fault.

Being a murderer is one example of a sinning lifestyle that sends people to hell.

Rev 21:7-8 • “He who overcomes shall inherit all things,and I will be his God
and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,
sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the
lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Aren’t all of the other habitual sins just as deadly?

The other “sin lists” in the NT provide dozens more of these deadly sins,
which, if committed habitually (without sincere repentance obviously),
will guarantee hell for the practitioners.

 

[Eugene]

The other “sin lists” in the NT provide dozens more of these deadly sins, which, if committed habitually (without sincere repentance obviously),
will guarantee hell for the practitioners.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but it sounds to me that if you continue speeding one mile per hour over the speed limit without repenting if you’ve done it more than once, that is habitual sin, and if you got into a wreck and died before sincerely asking forgiveness you’re going to hell?

Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment (Thou shall follow the law of the land?), it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

If you speed you're sure not loving me. Next let's discuss anyone ever using a cell phone when driving.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

:halo ....... nope, never ..... ! :erm

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

what's the op relation ? .......
I had it then
hit a speed bump
and woke up in the middle of a call..... ..... ....

 

[John Zain]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding you ...

You're not alone, that's for sure.
People misunderstand me for ALL kinds of reasons!
IMO, this whole deal about sin and repentance comes down to the condition of a person's heart towards God.

 

[Eugene]

what's the op relation ? .......
I had it then
hit a speed bump
and woke up in the middle of a call..... ..... ....

Evidently it has to do with his Church's doctrines. Never sin?

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

Never(*) on purpose. (not willfully, wittingly, willingly, or ongoing(ly)?)
(*)(since immersed in Yeshua)

 

[John Zain]

Evidently it has to do with his Church's doctrines. Never sin?

Here we go again with the "never sin?" stuff.
(Edited, ToS 2.4. Obadiah)

"But IF we (continue to) walk in the light as He is in the light,
we (continue to) have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son (continues to) cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we (continue to) confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just to (continue to)
forgive us our sins and to (continue to) cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
(1 John 1:7-2:1)
Derek Prince explained that the Greek verbs here are all continuous verbs.

BACs must confess and repent of their sins in order to maintain their righteousness before God.

Throughout the whole Bible ... sinners are unrighteous! ... obedient believers are righteous!
And only the righteous go to heaven.

Proverbs 28:13 “He who covers his sins will not prosper,
but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

OSAS is greatly misunderstood.
Some people believe that if you say a salvation prayer, then you are guaranteed to go to heaven, no matter what you do after that.
Of course we know there is no truth in that.
The problem is that too many people want to believe that all OSAS believers are the same.
That is far from the truth.

Romans 8:9 NIV
You however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

Romans 14:4 NIV
Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master they stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

1 Corinthians 1:8 NIV
He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 NIV
Now it is God that makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

These are all verses that tell us that if we truly belong to Christ, then we are OSAS.
If anyone still has doubts, I will add one more.

Psalm 23:6 NIV
Surely your goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

Question: How did David know that he would dwell in the house of the Lord forever?

 

[Stan1953]

Hi John,

I read the other day, on another forum, someone saying I'm from a Bible believing church, and there was a quick response of "don't all churches believe in the Bible"?
That is similar to what comes first, the chicken or the egg. In the context of Genesis 1, the chicken, but in the context of the new believer in a church, it should be the egg/Word of God. Doctrines really don't need to be taught, IF the proper hermeneutical exegesis of the Bible is. You'll note my signature below.
It's incumbent on all Christians, to test the spirits through the word of God. Pastors are meant to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. That means teach them how to read and understand the Word of God.

 

[Stan1953]

This is exceedingly dangerous, more dangerous than staying in a church. You want to see false doctrines multiply exponentially? Start a house church. There are problems either way, of course, but further segmenting and dividing the church into autonomous units is much worse.

I agree...any home or house church should emanate from growth of the main church, that is already established and has grown in favor with God and man.

 

[Deborah13]

Here we go again with the "never sin?" stuff.
(Edited, ToS 2.4. Obadiah)

"But IF we (continue to) walk in the light as He is in the light,
we (continue to) have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son (continues to) cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we (continue to) confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just to (continue to)
forgive us our sins and to (continue to) cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
(1 John 1:7-2:1)
Derek Prince explained that the Greek verbs here are all continuous verbs.

BACs must confess and repent of their sins in order to maintain their righteousness before God.

Throughout the whole Bible ... sinners are unrighteous! ... obedient believers are righteous!
And only the righteous go to heaven.

Proverbs 28:13 “He who covers his sins will not prosper,
but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

In my understanding a problem arises when we confuse the Greek word translated as confess in I John 1:9, with the Greek word translated as repent as in say Acts 3:19. Two different Greek words.

Confess is simply to acknowledge something to be true.
In keeping with the context it is quite clear that this is exactly what John is teaching, unless one acknowledges that they sin they cannot even be saved let alone sanctified. Without acknowledging that one has/does sin one cannot be brought to repentence, for what would they repent of?

 

[Stan1953]

In my understanding a problem arises when we confuse the Greek word translated as confess in I John 1:9, with the Greek word translated as repent as in say Acts 3:19. Two different Greek words.
Confess is simply to acknowledge something to be true.
In keeping with the context it is quite clear that this is exactly what John is teaching, unless one acknowledges that they sin they cannot even be saved let alone sanctified. Without acknowledging that one has/does sin one cannot be brought to repentence, for what would they repent of?