Cultivating a love for the truth… The Doctrine of Christ.

[Hopeful 2]

I'm sorry. I didn't know you were omniscient now.

Thank you for the apology, and I am not omniscient.

 

[Whatever]

Yes, sin is lawlessness or in the KJV translation, "sin is the transgression of the law". The important question is, what law are you and I are under?

The "law" Paul was talking about that we are not under is the Old Covenant law sacrifices and ceremonies.
Most people take "not under law" to mean that we have no rules that we have to follow.
A lot of the rules or laws in the Old Testament have wise advice that we can use today.
Paul uses the "not muzzling an Ox" to be "The worker is worthy of his wages."

Deuteronomy 22:8 “When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof, that you may not bring the guilt of blood upon your house, if anyone should fall from it.

Back then people uses the roof as an extra room. Basically what it is teaching in today's language is "Personal property liability." If you have a big outdoor swimming pool, put a fence around it so neighbor kids don't accidentally get in it and drown. All of the zillion rules we have today for contractors to follow when building a house are an example of the Deuteronomy rule. Don't scrimp on material to save a few bucks and make the house less safe and maybe easier to catch fire.

It all comes down to "loving your neighbor" and
Philippians 2:3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The "law" Paul was talking about that we are not under is the Old Covenant law sacrifices and ceremonies.
Most people take "not under law" to mean that we have no rules that we have to follow.
A lot of the rules or laws in the Old Testament have wise advice that we can use today.
Paul uses the "not muzzling an Ox" to be "The worker is worthy of his wages."

Deuteronomy 22:8 “When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof, that you may not bring the guilt of blood upon your house, if anyone should fall from it.

Back then people uses the roof as an extra room. Basically what it is teaching in today's language is "Personal property liability." If you have a big outdoor swimming pool, put a fence around it so neighbor kids don't accidentally get in it and drown. All of the zillion rules we have today for contractors to follow when building a house are an example of the Deuteronomy rule. Don't scrimp on material to save a few bucks and make the house less safe and maybe easier to catch fire.

It all comes down to "loving your neighbor" and
Philippians 2:3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.

Do you really feel that is impossible to do ?

 

[Whatever]

Do you really feel that is impossible to do ?

Not impossible, but not likely.
1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

I believe John is saying that we have the Holy Spirit in us, but it does not completely control us right now.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

You have a body that is still dead and unregenerate. This will not be changed until we get our resurrected bodies at the last day.

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Our bodies still crave things. We still operate through physical brains and firing synapses. But we also have minds that do not need a brain. Only when we die will we be free from our brain and cravings.
Then the new man (planted seed) will be perfect and sinless and live forever.

I like a little paragraph from Albert Barnes:
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin - This passage must either mean that they who are born of God, that is, who are true Christians, do not sin habitually and characteristically, or that everyone who is a true Christian is absolutely perfect, and never commits any sin. If it can be used as referring to the doctrine of absolute perfection at all, it proves, not that Christians may be perfect, or that a "portion" of them are, but that all are. But who can maintain this? Who can believe that John meant to affirm this? Nothing can be clearer than that the passage has not this meaning, and that John did not teach a doctrine so contrary to the current strain of the Scriptures, and to fact.

I guess you maintain this!

 

[live2blieve]

The "law" Paul was talking about that we are not under is the Old Covenant law sacrifices and ceremonies.
Most people take "not under law" to mean that we have no rules that we have to follow.
A lot of the rules or laws in the Old Testament have wise advice that we can use today.
Paul uses the "not muzzling an Ox" to be "The worker is worthy of his wages."

Deuteronomy 22:8 “When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof, that you may not bring the guilt of blood upon your house, if anyone should fall from it.

Back then people uses the roof as an extra room. Basically what it is teaching in today's language is "Personal property liability." If you have a big outdoor swimming pool, put a fence around it so neighbor kids don't accidentally get in it and drown. All of the zillion rules we have today for contractors to follow when building a house are an example of the Deuteronomy rule. Don't scrimp on material to save a few bucks and make the house less safe and maybe easier to catch fire.

It all comes down to "loving your neighbor" and
Philippians 2:3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.

You said, "The "law" Paul was talking about that we are not under is the Old Covenant law sacrifices and ceremonies." Could you please simply state what law we are under?

 

[JLB]

You said, "The "law" Paul was talking about that we are not under is the Old Covenant law sacrifices and ceremonies." Could you please simply state what law we are under?

The law of Christ; the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.


For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2

Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Galatians 6:2

 

[Hopeful 2]

Not impossible, but not likely.

I am glad you at least think it is possible.
God, a real repentance from sin, and rebirth from His seed, makes it possible.

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
I believe John is saying that we have the Holy Spirit in us, but it does not completely control us right now.

The Spirit of God isn't sent to 'control us'.
It was sent so we can control ourselves.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
You have a body that is still dead and unregenerate. This will not be changed until we get our resurrected bodies at the last day.

You misinterpreted Rom 8:10.
Those once dead in sin have been made alive by the Spirit of God.
I had a body that was destroyed at its immersion into Christ and into His death. (Rom 6:3-6)
I now walk in the Spirit, instead of in the "flesh".

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

In Rom 8:2, Paul says he has been freed from the law of sin.
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
We can also be free of the law of sin.

Our bodies still crave things. We still operate through physical brains and firing synapses. But we also have minds that do not need a brain. Only when we die will we be free from our brain and cravings.

Like Paul in Rom 7:25, you too can allow the mind to over-rule the "flesh".
We are no longer "flesh" first !

Then the new man (planted seed) will be perfect and sinless and live forever.

The planted seed should be bringing forth fruit here and now.
Our new man is here and now, if we are in Christ.

I like a little paragraph from Albert Barnes:
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin - This passage must either mean that they who are born of God, that is, who are true Christians, do not sin habitually and characteristically, or that everyone who is a true Christian is absolutely perfect, and never commits any sin. If it can be used as referring to the doctrine of absolute perfection at all, it proves, not that Christians may be perfect, or that a "portion" of them are, but that all are. But who can maintain this? Who can believe that John meant to affirm this? Nothing can be clearer than that the passage has not this meaning, and that John did not teach a doctrine so contrary to the current strain of the Scriptures, and to fact.
I guess you maintain this!

Yes: thanks be to God, Jesus, the Holy Ghost, His words, prayer, study, fellowship, and a bunch more things !
Things like the gift of repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, prophesy, and His promise that I will never be tempted above that which I can handle. (1 Cor 10:13)

I pray that all will come to the faith, before it is too late.

 

[Whatever]

I am glad you at least think it is possible.
God, a real repentance from sin, and rebirth from His seed, makes it possible.

Yes possible. You won't accept this as just "words of men" but this is what a lot in the Church believe.
Westminster Larger Catechism
Q. 78. Whence ariseth the imperfection of sanctification in believers?
A. The imperfection of sanctification in believers ariseth from the remnants of sin abiding in every part of them, and the perpetual lustings of the flesh against the spirit; whereby they are often foiled with temptations, and fall into many sins, are hindered in all their spiritual services, and their best works are imperfect and defiled in the sight of God.

Q. 79. May not true believers, by reason of their imperfections, and the many temptations and sins they are overtaken with, fall away from the state of grace?
A. True believers, by reason of the unchangeable love of God, and his decree and covenant to give them perseverance, their inseparable union with Christ, his continual intercession for them, and the Spirit and seed of God abiding in them, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

God leaves us here to grow in character through trials.
Romans 5:3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope.

Produces = katergazomai (G2716), signifies "to work out, achieve, effect by toil,"

He doesn't give us these things automatically. He works it in us over time through tribulation (the discipline in Hebrews, or the pruning in John 15:2)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes possible. You won't accept this as just "words of men" but this is what a lot in the Church believe.
Westminster Larger Catechism
Q. 78. Whence ariseth the imperfection of sanctification in believers?
A. The imperfection of sanctification in believers ariseth from the remnants of sin abiding in every part of them, and the perpetual lustings of the flesh against the spirit; whereby they are often foiled with temptations, and fall into many sins, are hindered in all their spiritual services, and their best works are imperfect and defiled in the sight of God.

The imperfection shows that they are not believers.
Nor was their repentance from sin genuine.
Real rebirth leaves no trace of the old man.

Q. 79. May not true believers, by reason of their imperfections, and the many temptations and sins they are overtaken with, fall away from the state of grace?
A. True believers, by reason of the unchangeable love of God, and his decree and covenant to give them perseverance, their inseparable union with Christ, his continual intercession for them, and the Spirit and seed of God abiding in them, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

The question was a straw man argument, but the answer is correct.
"True believers can neither totally not finally fall from the state of grace !"

God leaves us here to grow in character through trials.
Romans 5:3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope.

We are indeed instructed to grow in grace and knowledge. (2 Peter 3:18)

Produces = katergazomai (G2716), signifies "to work out, achieve, effect by toil,"
He doesn't give us these things automatically. He works it in us over time through tribulation (the discipline in Hebrews, or the pruning in John 15:2)

Thank God we know we will never be tempted above that which we can handle. (1 Cor 10:13)

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Everything else?

I gave you the clear truth that Judas Iscariot was predestined to reign with Christ in the age to come.

So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28


Judas believed, and followed Jesus Christ for 3 1/2 years, was promoted to an Apostle.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


He was empowered by the Holy Spirit and sent out with the other eleven to preach the Gospel to the lost, heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out devils, then Judas became a traitor and betrayed Jesus Christ… and instead of repenting and being restored like Peter, he hung himself.

The only difference between Judas and Peter, was Peter returned in repentance and was forgiven and restored.

But what did Judas believe about Jesus? I think that he believed that Jesus would be an earthly king as the Messiah, who would kick the Romans out of Palestine and rule the country, the way most of the Jews believed about the Messiah.

Then, he became disillusioned and betrayed Jesus because he didn't live up to his expectations. That's the reason the eleven replaced him as one of the twelve with Matthias.

 

[live2blieve]

The law of Christ; the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.


For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2

Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Galatians 6:2

I agree. If a person is are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Yahshua), which is INSIDE of him and became a part of him, he cannot break this law or sin.

 

[Free]

The imperfection shows that they are not believers.
Nor was their repentance from sin genuine.

Heresy. This is absolutely horrible, ungodly, unbiblical teaching and is harmful to believers, especially new ones.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Heresy. This is absolutely horrible, ungodly, unbiblical teaching and is harmful to believers, especially new ones.

Show me the scripture that says my POV is wrong.
Real rebirth from God's seed, leaves no trace of the old man.
It was destroyed at it's baptism into Christ's death.
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,..." (Rom 6:6)

A new creature was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Rom 6:3-4)
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)

If new believers want to serve the One that died for their sins, what purpose does accommodating more sins accomplish ?

 

[JLB]

Heresy. This is absolutely horrible, ungodly, unbiblical teaching and is harmful to believers, especially new ones.

We don't agree much, but on this, I say amen.

It's harmful to believers and especially new believers.

 

[live2blieve]

We don't agree much, but on this, I say amen.

It's harmful to believers and especially new believers.

It is harmful to believers and especially new believers to believe in the Savior who reportedly came to take away sin (John 1:29; 1 John 3:5) and free people from sin (John 8:31-36), but failed to do that according to the prevalent teaching that all believers still sin.

 

[Free]

It is harmful to believers and especially new believers to believe in the Savior who reportedly came to take away sin (John 1:29; 1 John 3:5) and free people from sin (John 8:31-36), but failed to do that according to the prevalent teaching that all believers still sin.

What is harmful is such an utter distortion of Scripture that would lead true believers, especially new believers, to believe that they are not saved when they actually are. It can, and likely does, ruin a person's faith or lead to salvation by works. It is a gross misinterpretation of Scripture to say that even one sin is evidence that a person is not actually a believer. It is based on poor reasoning and poor exegesis, ignoring a large portion of the NT which clearly addresses sin in believers.

People who teach that even one sin is proof that a person isn't saved and who teach that they don't sin, are self-deceived, do not have the truth, make God a liar, and do not have his word in them, according to 1 John 1:8, 10.

The clear teaching of the NT is that while believers are justified and set free from the power of sin, we still struggle with sin because of various temptations:

Gal 2:11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
Gal 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.
Gal 2:13 And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?” (ESV)

(Peter's serious sin.)

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. (ESV)

Only Jesus was perfectly sinless:

Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (ESV)

Notice that it is only Jesus who is said to be without sin despite being "tempted as we are." That strongly implies that we all still struggle with giving in to temptation. However, based on Jesus's sinlessness and his work on the cross, we can "with confidence draw near to the throne of grace." As John says:

1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (ESV)

However, that is based on actually confessing ones sins:

1Jn 1:9 If we [continually] confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (ESV)

Clearly, John believes that believers still struggle with sin, including himself (the consistent use of the plural from verse 1). Jesus taught that we are to ask God for forgiveness:

Mat 6:12 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
Mat 6:14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you,
Mat 6:15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (ESV)

Yes, it's prior to the cross, but do you think that Jesus would really teach the disciples to pray for forgiveness if it was only going to be legitimate for the next three years or so? Did he not, just prior to his ascension, also teach the disciples to teach others to "observe all that I have commanded you"?

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (ESV)

Much more could be given, but this is more than sufficient to show the poor reasoning and exegesis of believing that even one sin is evidence that a person isn't actually a believer. Remember, such a teaching makes God a liar.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Show me the scripture that says my POV is wrong.
Real rebirth from God's seed, leaves no trace of the old man.
It was destroyed at it's baptism into Christ's death.
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,..." (Rom 6:6)

A new creature was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Rom 6:3-4)
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)

What is harmful is such an utter distortion of Scripture that would lead true believers, especially new believers, to believe that they are not saved when they actually are. It can, and likely does, ruin a person's faith or lead to salvation by works. It is a gross misinterpretation of Scripture to say that even one sin is evidence that a person is not actually a believer. It is based on poor reasoning and poor exegesis, ignoring a large portion of the NT which clearly addresses sin in believers.

People who teach that even one sin is proof that a person isn't saved and who teach that they don't sin, are self-deceived, do not have the truth, make God a liar, and do not have his word in them, according to 1 John 1:8, 10.

The clear teaching of the NT is that while believers are justified and set free from the power of sin, we still struggle with sin because of various temptations:

Gal 2:11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
Gal 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.
Gal 2:13 And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?” (ESV)

(Peter's serious sin.)

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. (ESV)

Only Jesus was perfectly sinless:

Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (ESV)

Notice that it is only Jesus who is said to be without sin despite being "tempted as we are." That strongly implies that we all still struggle with giving in to temptation. However, based on Jesus's sinlessness and his work on the cross, we can "with confidence draw near to the throne of grace." As John says:

1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (ESV)

However, that is based on actually confessing ones sins:

1Jn 1:9 If we [continually] confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (ESV)

Clearly, John believes that believers still struggle with sin, including himself (the consistent use of the plural from verse 1). Jesus taught that we are to ask God for forgiveness:

Mat 6:12 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
Mat 6:14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you,
Mat 6:15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (ESV)

Yes, it's prior to the cross, but do you think that Jesus would really teach the disciples to pray for forgiveness if it was only going to be legitimate for the next three years or so? Did he not, just prior to his ascension, also teach the disciples to teach others to "observe all that I have commanded you"?

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (ESV)

Much more could be given, but this is more than sufficient to show the poor reasoning and exegesis of believing that even one sin is evidence that a person isn't actually a believer. Remember, such a teaching makes God a liar.

God commands..."Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the Lord your God am holy." (Lev 19:2)
Jesus commands..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)
Peter reminds us..."Because" it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. (1 Peter 1:16)
Neither God, nor Jesus, not Peter, command the impossible.

If a man wants to love, serve, and know God perfectly, is it fair to tell Him he cannot do such a thing ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

We don't agree much, but on this, I say amen.

It's harmful to believers and especially new believers.

As this is in the "cultivating a love for the truth" thread, shouldn't we be in agreement with what Jesus said about the truth ?
He said, in John 8:32, that the truth could make us free.
Jesus elaborated on what we can be free from, in verse 34..."Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."
Was that news harmful to new believers ?

 

[Free]

God commands..."Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the Lord your God am holy." (Lev 19:2)
Jesus commands..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)
Peter reminds us..."Because" it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. (1 Peter 1:16)
Neither God, nor Jesus, not Peter, command the impossible.

If a man wants to love, serve, and know God perfectly, is it fair to tell Him he cannot do such a thing ?

He set the standard and that is our aim. Are you seriously going to argue that the Israelites were perfectly holy? If so, I think you need to reread the OT.

The NT is clear: believers still struggle with temptation and sin--only Jesus was tempted but sinless--and we are to continually confess our sins for forgiveness, with Jesus as our advocate before the Father.

 

[Whatever]

Jesus commands..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)

And what does that mean? Sinless?

Perfect = G5046 - teleios - complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

Mathew 19:21 Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

Have you sold all you have yet?

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.

1 Corinthians 2:6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.

Mature same Greek word G5046 - teleios

Philippians 3:12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.

perfected = teleioō - to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.

Paul blows your whole theory out of the water. An Apostle who was inspired to write Scripture has not attained perfection.

Hebrews 5:14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

full age = G5046 - teleios (see above)