Reconciled while enemies by the death of His Son!

[savedbygrace57]

rom 5:

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

2 cor 5:

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

eph 2:

16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

col 1:

20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Notice how the scriptures uniformly declares that some have been reconciled unto God, and not God reconciled unto them ! That is because there was no enmity in the mind of God towards the elect[ but love], but the enmity was in our hearts towards Him..

All the enmity was in us who by nature hated God, while He loved us with a everlasting love..col 1:

21And you [the elect], that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

All of us who have been positionally reconciled to God, will sooner or later in their lifetime have it made manifested by their turning [ or being turned] to God, or their conversion unto Him..That is the reconciliation of the death of Christ is the cause that effects our Faith and Repentance unto God..

Those who we see in scripture turning to God, or repenting i.e acts 2, do so because they had been reconciled unto God by the death of Jesus Christ, His death therefore brings them to God:

1 pet 3:

18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins [by His death], the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

This tells us that the reconciliation on the cross ensures the practical turning unto God from our idols and vain religion's to serve the True and living God through Jesus Christ.

Acts 3:

26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

1 Thess 1:9

For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

heb 9:

14How much more shall the blood of Christ [or His death], who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

So contrary to the False teaching of the Antichrist followers, the reconciliation upon the death of Christ, ensures and effects a practical coming unto God through Jesus Christ, a coming to the True and Living God..

He never needed to be reconciled unto us, for He Loved us, but we needed to be reconciled unto Him, because we hated Him, and He accomplished this through the death of His Son..

 

[whirlwind]

Dear Saved By Grace,

You are consumed with this and it is wrong. It is not loving, it is not Christian, it is not of Christ. It has nothing to do with His message....nothing!

Are there elect? Certainly and their purpose is for God to speak through them to bring others, the non-elect, to Him.

 

[follower of Christ]

.

whew.
Same story, different title....
All I see is you losing the discussion in one thread and then creating another....and another..and another.
The facts ARENT going to change just because you make another thread...kwim ?



DOES man have the CHOICE to REJECT God ?
Wm Tipton

Assertions/Conclusions of this article
Simply to show that scripture does support the idea that man does have free will to reject God both before and after having come under this covenant.

Supporting Evidence

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him and he with Me.
(Revelation 3:20 MKJV)

And open the door -
This must be his own act, receiving power for this purpose from his offended Lord, who will not break open the door; he will make no forcible entry.
-Adam Clarke

And open the door -
As one would when a stranger or friend stood and knocked. The meaning here is simply, if anyone will admit me; that is, receive me as a friend. The act of receiving him is as voluntary on our part as it is when we rise and open the door to one who knocks.
-Albert Barnes

and open the door;
or show a readiness for the coming of Christ, look and wait for it, and be like such that will receive him with a welcome:
-John Gill

See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape, having refused Him who warned them, how much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who warns from heaven; whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also the heaven."
(Heb 12:25-26)

how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by those who heard Him;
(Heb 2:3 MKJV)

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 2:21

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
(Heb 10:26-39 KJV)

The statement "we are not of them who draw back unto perdition" is entirely absurd *IF* 'them' had not actually 'draw back' to perdition.
And the writers EXHORTATION TO these believing Hebrews is VOID of ANY and ALL meaning in REFERRING to these who had 'DRAWN BACK' in his warning to these believers *IF* they could not do the very same thing.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame . For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
(Heb 6:4-9 KJV)

Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
(Heb 3:1-19 KJV)

2.0
Does man play a part in his 'election' and salvation ?

Therefore, brothers, rather be diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you do these things, you shall never fall.
(2 Peter 1:10 MKJV)

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is working in you, both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
(Philippians 2:12-13 EMTV)

 

[savedbygrace57]

whirl says:

Are there elect? Certainly and their purpose is for God to speak through them to bring others, the non-elect, to Him.

You dont know what you are talking about, for paul was consumed with bringing the elect to God, not the non elect, you just make your mouth say anything..but this is what paul wrote:

2 tim 2:

10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

 

[follower of Christ]

You dont know what you are talking about, for paul was consumed with bringing the elect to God, not the non elect, you just make your mouth say anything..but this is what paul wrote:

Dont you even realize the absurdity of this statement ?
WHY WOULD PAUL BE CONSUMED with BRINGING the elect to God when by YOUR nonsense NOTHING COULD KEEP THEM FROM GOD ???

The proponents of your illogical fallacy dont even seem to be able to SEE past their error enough to understand the ridiculous contradictions it presents.

 

[RND]

...for paul was consumed with bringing the elect to God...

Why would it be necessary to bring the elect to God if they were already the elect?

 

[follower of Christ]

...for paul was consumed with bringing the elect to God...

Why would it be necessary to bring the elect to God if they were already the elect?

Doesnt make any sense, does it ?

 

[RND]

...for paul was consumed with bringing the elect to God...

Why would it be necessary to bring the elect to God if they were already the elect?

Doesnt make any sense, does it ?

You know, I was scanning this thread, I saw that quote and just had to respond. Then after it posted I looked and saw your response and thus I can confirm that indeed, this statement doesn't make any sense at all.

If God is no respecter of persons, and we know in fact He isn't, then why select some to be saved and some to be lost? That seems to me to be the epitome of being a "respecter of persons".

 

[savedbygrace57]

...for paul was consumed with bringing the elect to God...

Why would it be necessary to bring the elect to God if they were already the elect?

Because as sheep going astray they fell in Adam Isa 53:


6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

When the sheep go astray, the sheperd brings them back..

1 pet 2:25

For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

 

[follower of Christ]

...for paul was consumed with bringing the elect to God...

Why would it be necessary to bring the elect to God if they were already the elect?

Because as sheep going astray they fell in Adam Isa 53:


6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

When the sheep go astray, the sheperd brings them back..

1 pet 2:25

For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

And WHEN did they go astray ?
BEFORE or after they were physically born ?
The Father FORESAW it all and KNEW these who are His would repent when given the opportunity...

.

 

[RND]

Because as sheep going astray they fell in Adam Isa 53:


6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

When the sheep go astray, the sheperd brings them back..

Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.

People that have turned to their own way are not following the path of the Lord. And true, some sheep will hear the shepherd's voice and return. But it is also true that some will hear the Shepherd's voice and reject the shepherd, much as many of the Pharisees did (Luke 7:35-40). Still others will hear the Shepherd's voice and reject not only the voice of the Shepherd but reject the Shepherd altogether (John 3:16-19).

1 pet 2:25

For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

And what of the sheep that do not return? Isn't everyone outside of the will of God acting on their own and thus a "lost sheep?"

Psa 119:176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.

David implies strongly that God seeks His sheep that do not forget His commandments.

 

[savedbygrace57]

rnd says:

And what of the sheep that do not return? Isn't everyone outside of the will of God acting on their own and thus a "lost sheep?"

cant happen, the sheep are being returned..1 pet 2:


1 pet 2:25

For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

In the greek paul uses the passive voice for returned..do you know what the passive voice means?

 

[follower of Christ]

rnd says:

And what of the sheep that do not return? Isn't everyone outside of the will of God acting on their own and thus a "lost sheep?"

cant happen, the sheep are being returned..1 pet 2:


1 pet 2:25

For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

In the greek paul uses the passive voice for returned..do you know what the passive voice means?

What we DO know is that your fallacy DOESNT line up with the WHOLE word of God

READERS SEE >>> DOES man have the CHOICE to REJECT God ?


.

 

[savedbygrace57]

foc says:

What we DO know is that your fallacy DOESNT line up with the WHOLE word of God

So what about 1 pet 2 25 you dont believe..1 pet 2:

25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Peter says they are being returned..its in the passive voice, do you know what that means ?

 

[follower of Christ]

foc says:

What we DO know is that your fallacy DOESNT line up with the WHOLE word of God

So what about 1 pet 2 25 you dont believe..1 pet 2:

25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Peter says they are being returned..its in the passive voice, do you know what that means ?

Play scholar of greek with someone whom may be impressed, S.
Ive seen your ability and its lacking entirely.
Deal with the language you DO know....English.

That said, your verse DOESNT negate the following;
READERS SEE >>> DOES man have the CHOICE to REJECT God ?

.

 

[savedbygrace57]

rnd asked:

And what of the sheep that do not return? Isn't everyone outside of the will of God acting on their own and thus a "lost sheep?"

No, all are not sheep, some are goats..Jesus christ is the shepherd of the sheep, not the goats..

Jn 10:

I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—

Jesus says all are not sheep jn 10:26

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

That statement makes clear that Jesus did not consider all men His sheep, what say ye ?

 

[follower of Christ]

rnd asked:

And what of the sheep that do not return? Isn't everyone outside of the will of God acting on their own and thus a "lost sheep?"

No, all are not sheep, some are goats..Jesus christ is the shepherd of the sheep, not the goats..

Jn 10:

I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—

Jesus says all are not sheep jn 10:26

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

That statement makes clear that Jesus did not consider all men His sheep, what say ye ?

Yup.
Jesus KNEW His sheep, those who would repent and come to Him, from the foundation of the world

.

 

[savedbygrace57]

foc says:

Yup.
Jesus KNEW His sheep,

He should He is their shepherd, but He did not know all Matt 7:

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What that mean to you ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

foc says:

Yup.
Jesus KNEW His sheep, those who would repent and come to Him, from the foundation of the world

You have scripture for that ? I never seen that verse that says Jesus knew those who would repent and come to Him, from thhe foundation of the world..please show me that verse..I will be waiting..

 

[follower of Christ]

foc says:

Yup.
Jesus KNEW His sheep, those who would repent and come to Him, from the foundation of the world

You have scripture for that ? I never seen that verse that says Jesus knew those who would repent and come to Him, from thhe foundation of the world..please show me that verse..I will be waiting..

Yeah...its in Romans and we've talked about it about 200 times now.
Those whom He FOREKNEW He also did predestinate.....TWO steps, the FIRST of which is FOREKNOWLEDGE.

Do you need help understanding this, S?
Its not my fault if you arent paying attention or your temporary memory isnt what it should be.
This repetition is getting tiresome enough that Im thinking maybe I should start writing my posts with the large crayons or something.