Reformed Theology Makes God The Author of Sin!

[LeviR]

Regardless of how you word it, the answer is very clear, IF God fore ordained all things, then He IS AUTHOR of sin. Period.

Sin was brought into the world by man, not God, nor anyone else.
God created man with a sinful nature. However, a sinful nature cannot sin unless there is something or someone to sin against.
As soon as God gave a law to man, his sinful nature took over the man, and he sinned.
But like I said, man can’t blame the law because the law is good.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Sin was brought into the world by man, not God, nor anyone else.
God created man with a sinful nature. However, a sinful nature cannot sin unless there is something or someone to sin against.
As soon as God gave a law to man, his sinful nature took over the man, and he sinned.
But like I said, man can’t blame the law because the law is good.

So where did humans get their sinful ideas from

 

[jasonc]

If you were to order someone to murder for you, are you in any way responsible? Would a judge find you guilty of anything?

So God personally himself slew his son ?

You are tripping over this .arguing that to plan of redemption is murder when God said only blood of a man ,one sinless man purge sin

For before the foundation of the world we that are saved were chosen

That was planned for God knew and let sin .

You are arguing this.
god doesn't get shocked by sin and already planned to save us.

While saying God doesn't ordain ,make create evil.

Cherry picking what the doctrines of the reformed say ,which is the same thing.

God knew who ,would sin ,let them sin and used it to further his plan to save those who would be saved

Strange.God planned and foresaw Jesus dying and told the prophets.somethkng he foreknew and said would be and you argue otherwise

 

[Free]

God created man with a sinful nature.

No, absolutely not.

However, a sinful nature cannot sin unless there is something or someone to sin against.

You just stated that "God created man."

As soon as God gave a law to man, his sinful nature took over the man, and he sinned.
But like I said, man can’t blame the law because the law is good.

Man sinned apart from the law; the law just makes known to man his sin.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. (ESV)

 

[LeviR]

No, absolutely not.


You just stated that "God created man."


Man sinned apart from the law; the law just makes known to man his sin.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. (ESV)

You say “No, absolutely not.” But you have nothing to show Adam did not have a sinful nature.
All you have is to say man was “very good”, but you fail to recognize Adam was created the natural body made from dust.

What say about the natural body?

Adam was of the earth, earthy. And what is from the earth returns to it.
Adam had not the spiritual body when created, because the spiritual body is not of the earth but of the Spirit and never sins or dies.

A spiritual body does not look at something forbidden and desire it and take it. No, because if it did it would die. And they don’t die.

 

[JLB]

In this clip, R C Sproul, who was a leading teacher of "reformed" theology, says, "God Ordains Whatsoever Comes to Pass".

According to the basic meaning of the word, "ordain", we have:

"(formal) (of God, the law or fate) to order or command something; to decide something in advance"

ordain verb - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes | Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

Definition of ordain verb in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary. Meaning, pronunciation, picture, example sentences, grammar, usage notes, synonyms and more.

www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com

This makes God the AUTHOR of Sin, and therefore cannot be Holy and Perfect and Righteous and Just, etc, etc.

This is TOTALLY UNBIBLICAL!

Yes, "Reformed Theology" is unbiblical.

I never understood how anyone could think that scripture needs to be reformed?

OSAS is what the scripture calls "The Lie". As we see this doctrine is anti-Christ. See 1 Timothy 4:1

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12


The lie is what caused the entire human race to fall.

Then the serpent said to the woman, You will not surely die. Genesis 3:4

• Go ahead Eve and disobey God, you won't die.

We already know that God Himself told Adam that in the day you eat of it (disobey; sin) you will surely die.


but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Genesis 2:17


Here is what the word of God teaches us about believing, practicing, or teaching any other doctrine than the doctrine of Christ.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9





JLB

 

[Free]

You say “No, absolutely not.” But you have nothing to show Adam did not have a sinful nature.

And, you have nothing to show he did. It's all just speculation on your part.

All you have is to say man was “very good”, but you fail to recognize Adam was created the natural body made from dust.

Yes, God said it was very good, which implies that man was created without a sinful nature. Or, do you think that God actually thought it was good that he (supposedly) created Adam with a sinful nature? How would that be good?

That Adam was created from dust is not at all relevant.

What say about the natural body?

What are you asking?

Adam was of the earth, earthy. And what is from the earth returns to it.
Adam had not the spiritual body when created, because the spiritual body is not of the earth but of the Spirit and never sins or dies.

How is any of this relevant?

A spiritual body does not look at something forbidden and desire it and take it. No, because if it did it would die. And they don’t die.

This is just opinion, unless you have some Scripture to back this up.

 

[LeviR]

And, you have nothing to show he did. It's all just speculation on your part.


Yes, God said it was very good, which implies that man was created without a sinful nature. Or, do you think that God actually thought it was good that he (supposedly) created Adam with a sinful nature? How would that be good?

That Adam was created from dust is not at all relevant.


What are you asking?


How is any of this relevant?


This is just opinion, unless you have some Scripture to back this up.

Just read the text. Eve desired the fruit. The word desire means COVET. Eve coveted the fruit.
Adam told her not to eat or even touch it, but Eve coveted it anyway.
This very clearly and obviously shows that Eve, whose flesh was of Adam’s, was sinful.
It’s called the 10th commandment.

 

[JLB]

Just read the text. Eve desired the fruit. The word desire means COVET. Eve coveted the fruit.
Adam told her not to eat or even touch it, but Eve coveted it anyway.
This very clearly and obviously shows that Eve, whose flesh was of Adam’s, was sinful.
It’s called the 10th commandment.

There is a reason why Eve coveted the fruit.


Can we discuss this?


JLB

 

[LeviR]

There is a reason why Eve coveted the fruit.


Can we discuss this?


JLB

Sure. The way I read it, the serpent inflamed Eve’s covetousness by telling her she would not die but be as the angels.
That’s all it took, she was lit afire with her desire and took and did eat.

 

[Free]

Just read the text. Eve desired the fruit. The word desire means COVET. Eve coveted the fruit.
Adam told her not to eat or even touch it, but Eve coveted it anyway.
This very clearly and obviously shows that Eve, whose flesh was of Adam’s, was sinful.
It’s called the 10th commandment.

In no way whatsoever does it follow that God created Adam and Eve with a sinful nature. He created then in his image, which includes the ability to reason and likely with the ability to choose between obedience or disobedience. The latter is as close to free will as man has ever gotten, but it does not mean that God created them with a sinful nature. That idea is nowhere in Scripture.

Please answer my questions.

 

[LeviR]

In no way whatsoever does it follow that God created Adam and Eve with a sinful nature. He created then in his image, which includes the ability to reason and likely with the ability to choose between obedience or disobedience. The latter is as close to free will as man has ever gotten, but it does not mean that God created them with a sinful nature. That idea is nowhere in Scripture.

Please answer my questions.

I did answer your question. Covetousness is part of sinful human nature. But it is forbidden by God.
IOW, God does not allow man to desire what is not his. God forbids the desire of the flesh. It’s the 10th commandment.
Eve’s flesh desired the fruit, and God’s law forbids it.
This shows clearly her flesh was sinful.

 

[Free]

I did answer your question. Covetousness is part of sinful human nature. But it is forbidden by God.
IOW, God does not allow man to desire what is not his. God forbids the desire of the flesh. It’s the 10th commandment.
Eve’s flesh desired the fruit, and God’s law forbids it.
This shows clearly her flesh was sinful.

No, you didn’t answer my questions, which were:

Do you think that God actually thought it was good that he (supposedly) created Adam with a sinful nature? How would that be good?

 

[LeviR]

No, you didn’t answer my questions, which were:

Do you think that God actually thought it was good that he (supposedly) created Adam with a sinful nature? How would that be good?

Adam was good, but he was of the earth, earthy, and created a natural body.
The natural body is the problem because it has desires of the flesh and heart and mind that care nothing for God’s laws. The flesh only wants what it wants. This is covetousness. And God forbids it.

The purpose of Christ is to change the natural body to a spiritual body so that it is not subject to any desires of its own that would oppose God’s law.

 

[Free]

Adam was good, but he was of the earth, earthy, and created a natural body.
The natural body is the problem because it has desires of the flesh and heart and mind that care nothing for God’s laws.

Where is your scriptural support regarding Adam’s “natural body”? What do you mean by “Adam was good”?

 

[LeviR]

Where is your scriptural support regarding Adam’s “natural body”? What do you mean by “Adam was good”?

As a man made from dust, Adam was very good. He was the best man anyone could make of dust.
Made from the ground is a natural body. Made by the Spirit is a spirit body. One made not from hands.

 

[Free]

As a man made from dust, Adam was very good. He was the best man anyone could make of dust.
Made from the ground is a natural body. Made by the Spirit is a spirit body. One made not from hands.

Once again, can you please answer my questions.

 

[LeviR]

Once again, can you please answer my questions.

1Co 15:45 - And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1Co 15:46 - Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1Co 15:47 - The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1Co 15:48 - As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly,such are they also that are heavenly.

1Co 15:49 - And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1Co 15:50 - Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Co 15:51 - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Co 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Co 15:53 - For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Co 15:54 - So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Free]

1Co 15:45 - And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1Co 15:46 - Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1Co 15:47 - The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1Co 15:48 - As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly,such are they also that are heavenly.

1Co 15:49 - And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1Co 15:50 - Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Co 15:51 - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Co 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Co 15:53 - For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Co 15:54 - So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Okay, so what does that have to do with God (supposedly) creating Adam and Eve with a sinful nature?

 

[LeviR]

Okay, so what does that have to do with God (supposedly) creating Adam and Eve with a sinful nature?

If you comprehend my posts you wouldn’t need to keep asking after I answered.