Reincarnation and early Christians.....

[Orthodox Christian]

There is no biblical support for reincarnation.

You can count on the OC and RCC to remain in a total state of denial.

Give your head a long, hard shake- I stated as much in an unqualified manner- and verified that neither OC or RC ascribe to or support the concept of reincarnation.

We both know full well that neither the OC or the CC embrace reincarnation in any sense, so both are and were irrelevant to your, erm, rebuttal.

Their Jesus is not the true Jesus. Their apostles are myths and their church is based on lies.

Total apostates.

This is not on topic. Why have you again changed the topic?
And how does one debate generalizations like these, or the ridiculous propaganda posters that you foist on this forum? There is no discussion of the merits of arguments here, on your part, only your judgement and synopsis. If you so love truth, why are you fearful to submit your notions of same to examination?

Twice dead false teachers and prophets.

Empty rhetoric, off topic.

 

[bibleberean]

Reincarnation is definitely not biblical. :D

 

[DivineNames]

Eastern mystics along with alleged Christian mystics are fools who don't know scripture.

Yeah, St Athanasius etc. are all fools and heretics.

:D

 

[DivineNames]

Eastern mystics along with alleged Christian mystics are fools who don't know scripture.

The bible does not teach reincarnation. It teaches resurrection...

Perhaps you somehow got it in to your head that Christian mystics teach reincarnation?

If thats the case, I guess you are getting a little confused.

 

[bibleberean]

I entertain no such nonesense.

Christian mystics have their own problems...

 

[Soma-Sight]

I entertain no such nonesense.

Christian mystics have their own problems...

Are all these men going to burn in the pit BB?

Note: The following list is inspired by and indebted to the Who's Who in the History of Mysticism by Bruce Janz. It is simply an alphabetically organized short reference list of mystics.


Christian Mystics
ALBERTUS MAGNUS (1206-1280)
[The teacher of Thomas Aquinas. In the tradition of Pythagoras, emphasized the essential unity of science and mysticism.]

ANGELA of FOLIGNO (c.1248-1309)
[Mysticism is based on the facts of Christ's life and death. Works: The Book of Divine Consolations of the Blessed Angela of Foligno.]


ANONYMOUS (c.1349-c.1395)
[Author of The Cloud of Unknowing, The Book of Privy Council. Part of the "English school" of late mediaeval mysticism. The emphasis on "unknowing" God is part of Pseudo-Dionysius' apophatic theology. Influenced by (Pseudo-)Dionysius.]

ANONYMOUS (c.1350-1400)
[Author of Theologia Germanica or Theologia Deutsch. Important influence in the German mystical tradition. Luther rediscovered and popularized it. Influenced by Augustine, Eckhart, Tauler.]

ANTONY, Saint (c.251-356)
[Early hermit or solitary monk, and a model for later monasticism, particularly of his eremetical type. Works: The Letters of St. Antony the Great.]

ATHANASIUS, Saint (c.296-373)
[Bishop of Alexandria from 328 to 373, wrote a Life of Antony, and was an influence on later Eastern Orthodox mysticism. Other works: Against the Gentiles, Apology Against the Arians.]

AUGUSTINE, Saint (354-430)
[Important source for much mediaeval mysticism. Brings Platonism and Christianity together. He emphasizes the soul's search for God, made possible by the illumination of the mind of God. Works include: De Trinitate, Confessions.]

BASIL THE GREAT, Saint (c.330-379)
[One of the Cappadocians, early church fathers. He gave a mystical orientation to the monastic movement. Works: Longer Rules, Liturgy of St. Basil.]

BEATRICE of NAZARETH (1200-1268)
[Belgian Cistercian mystic. Associated with the Beguines. Works: The Seven Modes of Sacred Love.]

BERNARD of CLAIRVAUX (1091-1153)
[Cistercian mystic. Promoted a mystical vision of rhapsodic love, in which the Church is described in erotic terms as the bride of Christ. His love-mysticism had the tendency to be anti-intellectual, as in his disputes with Abelard. Works: Sermons, De diligendo Deo, On the Love of God.]

BONAVENTURE [John Fidanza] (1217-1274)
[Franciscan monk, and the architect of the philosophical, theological, and mystical side of Francis' thought. Mysticism in the Augustinian tradition. Works: The Mind's Road to God, The Tree of Life, The Life of St. Francis.]

BIRGITTA [Brigida] SUECICA of SWEDEN (1302-1373)
[Ascetic mystic. Heavily involved in political activity. Influenced by St. Francis of Assisi.]

CATHERINE of SIENA (1347-1380)
[Italian mystic and advisor to Pope Gregory XI. Influenced by Augustine. Works:Il Dialogo.]

DIONYSIUS [Pseudo-Dionysius] the Areopagite (writing c.500)
[Originates the distinction between kataphatic and apophatic theology. Works: Mystical Theology, The Divine Names.]

ECKHART, MEISTER (1260-1327/8)
[Dominican monk. One of the most important early German speculative mystics and the first of the so-called "Rhineland" mystics. His Sermons were in German, the academic works in Latin. Works: Sermons, Parisian Questions and Prologues. Selections in English are available. Influenced by Pseudo-Dionysius.]

ERIUGENA, John Scotus (c.810-c.877)
[Translated Pseudo-Dionysius from Greek into Latin. He holds that humans are a microcosm of the universe. That which is shared, the essence of all things, is God. Works: Periphyseon.]

FRANCIS of ASSISI [John Bernardone] (1182-1226)
[Founder of the Franciscan order, which emphasized self-renunciation and poverty. Francis approaches nature mysticism at times, particularly when he sees God in all living things. Works: Canticle of the Sun.]

GREGORY of NAZIANZUS (329-389)
[One of the Cappadocians, early church fathers. Works: Forty-five Sermons.]

GREGORY of NYSSA (c.335-c.398)
[Believed that the universe existed as a harmonious order emanating from God. One of the Cappadocians. Works: Dialogue with his Sister Macrina concerning the Resurrection.]

GREGORY PALAMAS (1296-1359)
[Eastern Orthodox mystic.]

HADEWIJCH [Adelwip] of Brabant/Antwerp (13th century)
[Belgian Beguine and one of the greatest exponents of love mysticism. Works: Letters, Poems in Stanzas, Visions, Poems in Couplets.]

HILDEGARD of BINGEN, Saint (1098-1179)
[Early German speculative mystic, reminiscent of Isaiah or Ezekiel at times. She was greatly respected in her time, both for her writings as well as for her music and art. Works: Scivias, The Book of Divine Works, Letters.]

HILTON, WALTER (d. 1395)
[English mystic. Works: The Scale (Ladder) of Perfection, Epistle to a Devout Man.]

HUGH of ST. VICTOR (c.1096-c.1142)
[He argues for a close tie between reason and mysticism.]

IGNATIUS of ANTIOCH (c. 35-c.107)
[Christocentric mystic. For him Christ's death and resurrection take on mystical significance.]

IRENAEUS (c.125-c.202)
[Irenaeus' work was directed against Gnosticism. He emphasized John's gospel, particularly the Logos, which became the voice of God that revealed itself to all people. Works: Revolution and Overthrow of False Knowledge (or Against Heresies).]

JOHN of the CROSS, Saint [Juan de Yepes] (1542-1591)
[Discalced Carmelite Spanish mystic. Along with Teresa of Avila, John's mysticism is union with God, attainable only in the denial of the self. Influenced by Teresa of Avila. Works: Dark Night of the Soul and Ascent of Mt. Carmel.]

JULIAN of NORWICH (1342-1413?)
[Julian was part of the "English school" of late mediaeval mysticism. Mystical experience that came at the point of death. The experience came with healing, and she devoted her life to understanding her vision. Influenced by Pseudo-Dionysius and perhaps Aquinas. Works: Showings or Revelations of Divine Love.]

JUSTIN MARTYR (c.105-c.165)
[Used Greek philosophy as the stepping-stone to Christian theology. The mystical conclusions that some Greeks arrived at, pointed to Christ. Works: First Apology.]

KEMPE, MARGERY (c.1413)
[Kempe is known primarily as the biographer of Julian of Norwich.]

LLULL, RAMON (c.1235-1315)
[Franciscan. Legend has it that he wrote 200 works, was an alchemist and a magician. He also worked on the logic of science. The "Great Art" is the scientific and mystical calculation of the interrelations of all things. Works: Great Art, The Book of the Lover and the Beloved.]

LUTHER, MARTIN (1483-1546)
[A well-known antipathy to mystics, but a foundation for mystical life in his theology of the heart, particularly in his early thought. Influences: Augustine, Theologica Germanica.

MECHTHILD of MAGDEBURG (1207-1282)
[Strongly feminine images in mysticism. Devotional mystic. Associated with the Beguines. Works: The Flowing Light of the Godhead.]

MERTON, THOMAS. (1915-1968)
[Prolific writer, Trappist monk given the name Father Louis. Spent many years at the Abbey of Gethsemani in Kentucky, USA. Died accidentally while in Southeast Asia to speak at a conference for contemplatives of many traditions.]

ORIGEN (c.185-254)
[Studied under Clement of Alexandria, and probably also Ammonius Saccus (Plotinus' teacher). He Christianized and theologized neo-Platonism. Each soul has individually fallen (emanation), and must find its way back to God (return) through the help of the Logos, Christ. Origen looks quite Gnostic at times. Works: On Principles, Against Celsus.]

PASCAL, BLAISE (1623-1662)
[French mathematician, scientist, and Jansenist. Influenced by Augustine.]

POLYCARP, Saint (c.69-c.155)
[Had a mystical vision which foretold his martyrdom by fire.]

PORETE, MARGUERITE (d. 1310)
[Works: The Mirror of Simple Souls.]

RICHARD of ST. VICTOR (d. 1173)
[Works: On Sacraments.]

ROLLE, RICHARD (1300-1349)
[Part of the "English school" of late mediaeval mysticism. Emphasizes the "physicality" of the mystical experience (feeling heat, seeing colours, etc.). Works: The Fire of Love.]

RUYSBROECK, JAN van (1293-1381)
[Flemish mystic, sometimes considered one of the Rhineland mystics, who outlined the stages of the mystical life. Works: The Adornment of the Spiritual Marriage (Spiritual Espousals), The Sparkling Stone, The Book of Supreme Truth.]

SUSO, HENRY (1295-1366)
[A Rhineland mystic. Works: The Little Book of Truth, The Little Book of Wisdom (Horologium Sapientiae).]

TAULER, JOHANNES (1300-1361)
[Rhineland mystic and Dominican. He emphasized the inner person rather than outer works, and because of this became popular in Protestant circles in the Reformation, and later Pietism and Romanticism. Was part of the same community that produced the Theologia Germanica. Works: Sermons.]
TERESA of AVILA (1515-1582)
[Spanish Carmelite nun. Formed the Discalced (Barefoot) Carmelites, with St. John of the Cross. Is very important for describing the stages of the mystical journey. Influenced by Augustine. Works: Life, by Herself; The Way of Perfection; The Interior Castle.]


TERTULLIAN (c.155-c.222)
[A faith that is a contradiction to reason. First to use trinitarian formulation for God. Works: To Martyrs, Apology, Against the Valentinians, Against Marcion, On the Soul.]

THOMAS AQUINAS, Saint (1224-1275)
[Dominican monk and the greatest Catholic theologian and philosopher. Late in life, he had a mystical experience which caused him to question his scholastic past. Works: Summa Theologica, De Anima, others.]

UNDERHILL, EVELYN (1875-1941)
[British Anglican contributor to a revival of interest in mysticism. Works: Mysticism, 12th edition. (New York: Meridian Books, 1955) which lists texts, translations, and studies for many different mystics.]

WILLIAM of ST.-THIERRY (c.1085-1148)
[A Cistercian contemporary of Bernard's who also emphasized love-mysticism, but with subtle differences from Bernard in his use of Augustine. Works: Golden Letter, On the Contemplation of God, On the Nature and Dignity of Love.]

Greek Philosophers
ARISTOTLE (384-322BCE)
[An influence on mystics, alone or in combination with Plato and Plotinus. Christianized in the high Middle Ages. Works: Metaphysics, De Anima, Nicomachean Ethics.]

PARMENIDES (c.515-c.450BCE)
[A Presocratic who adds to Pythagoras with the view that change is illusory. This distinction between the unchanging real and the changing illusory or phenomenonal, or the two-world view, is characteristic of mysticism. Works: On Nature, extant in fragments.]

PHILO (c.20 BCE-c.41CE)
[An Alexandrian Jew who drew from Platonist tradition, Stoicism, and neo-Pythagoreanism to create a fusion of the active or virtuous life and the contemplative life. Works: The Contemplative Life.]

PLATO (428-348BCE)
[His thought is the basis of most later mystical forms. Works: Sophist, Republic, Parmenides, many others.]

PLOTINUS (c.205-270CE)
[Provides the neo-Platonic basis for much Western mysticism -- Jewish, Christian, and Islamic. Works: Enneads.]

PORPHYRY (c.232-304CE)
[Compiled Plotinus' Enneads and wrote a life of Plotinus. He was strongly anti-Christian, yet he became important in the history of Christian mysticism. Works: Isagoge.]

PROCLUS [Proclusthe Lycian] (412-485CE)
[Athenian Neo-platonist, who influenced Pseudo-Dionysius, and beyond him most of the mystical tradition. Works: The Elements of Theology.]

PYTHAGORAS (c.580/570-c.500 BCE)
[A Presocratic philosopher interested in number, music, harmony, and the soul. Plato's Phaedo bears his influence.]



http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/mys/alpha.htm

 

[bibleberean]

Whoopee dooo... :angel:

 

[Karma2Grace]

I entertain no such nonesense.

Christian mystics have their own problems...

Are all these men going to burn in the pit BB?

Note: The following list is inspired by and indebted to the Who's Who in the History of Mysticism by Bruce Janz. It is simply an alphabetically organized short reference list of mystics.


Christian Mystics
ALBERTUS MAGNUS (1206-1280)
[The teacher of Thomas Aquinas. In the tradition of Pythagoras, emphasized the essential unity of science and mysticism.]

ANGELA of FOLIGNO (c.1248-1309)
[Mysticism is based on the facts of Christ's life and death. Works: The Book of Divine Consolations of the Blessed Angela of Foligno.]


ANONYMOUS (c.1349-c.1395)
[Author of The Cloud of Unknowing, The Book of Privy Council. Part of the "English school" of late mediaeval mysticism. The emphasis on "unknowing" God is part of Pseudo-Dionysius' apophatic theology. Influenced by (Pseudo-)Dionysius.]

ANONYMOUS (c.1350-1400)
[Author of Theologia Germanica or Theologia Deutsch. Important influence in the German mystical tradition. Luther rediscovered and popularized it. Influenced by Augustine, Eckhart, Tauler.]

ANTONY, Saint (c.251-356)
[Early hermit or solitary monk, and a model for later monasticism, particularly of his eremetical type. Works: The Letters of St. Antony the Great.]

ATHANASIUS, Saint (c.296-373)
[Bishop of Alexandria from 328 to 373, wrote a Life of Antony, and was an influence on later Eastern Orthodox mysticism. Other works: Against the Gentiles, Apology Against the Arians.]

AUGUSTINE, Saint (354-430)
[Important source for much mediaeval mysticism. Brings Platonism and Christianity together. He emphasizes the soul's search for God, made possible by the illumination of the mind of God. Works include: De Trinitate, Confessions.]

BASIL THE GREAT, Saint (c.330-379)
[One of the Cappadocians, early church fathers. He gave a mystical orientation to the monastic movement. Works: Longer Rules, Liturgy of St. Basil.]

BEATRICE of NAZARETH (1200-1268)
[Belgian Cistercian mystic. Associated with the Beguines. Works: The Seven Modes of Sacred Love.]

BERNARD of CLAIRVAUX (1091-1153)
[Cistercian mystic. Promoted a mystical vision of rhapsodic love, in which the Church is described in erotic terms as the bride of Christ. His love-mysticism had the tendency to be anti-intellectual, as in his disputes with Abelard. Works: Sermons, De diligendo Deo, On the Love of God.]

BONAVENTURE [John Fidanza] (1217-1274)
[Franciscan monk, and the architect of the philosophical, theological, and mystical side of Francis' thought. Mysticism in the Augustinian tradition. Works: The Mind's Road to God, The Tree of Life, The Life of St. Francis.]

BIRGITTA [Brigida] SUECICA of SWEDEN (1302-1373)
[Ascetic mystic. Heavily involved in political activity. Influenced by St. Francis of Assisi.]

CATHERINE of SIENA (1347-1380)
[Italian mystic and advisor to Pope Gregory XI. Influenced by Augustine. Works:Il Dialogo.]

DIONYSIUS [Pseudo-Dionysius] the Areopagite (writing c.500)
[Originates the distinction between kataphatic and apophatic theology. Works: Mystical Theology, The Divine Names.]

ECKHART, MEISTER (1260-1327/8)
[Dominican monk. One of the most important early German speculative mystics and the first of the so-called "Rhineland" mystics. His Sermons were in German, the academic works in Latin. Works: Sermons, Parisian Questions and Prologues. Selections in English are available. Influenced by Pseudo-Dionysius.]

ERIUGENA, John Scotus (c.810-c.877)
[Translated Pseudo-Dionysius from Greek into Latin. He holds that humans are a microcosm of the universe. That which is shared, the essence of all things, is God. Works: Periphyseon.]

FRANCIS of ASSISI [John Bernardone] (1182-1226)
[Founder of the Franciscan order, which emphasized self-renunciation and poverty. Francis approaches nature mysticism at times, particularly when he sees God in all living things. Works: Canticle of the Sun.]

GREGORY of NAZIANZUS (329-389)
[One of the Cappadocians, early church fathers. Works: Forty-five Sermons.]

GREGORY of NYSSA (c.335-c.398)
[Believed that the universe existed as a harmonious order emanating from God. One of the Cappadocians. Works: Dialogue with his Sister Macrina concerning the Resurrection.]

GREGORY PALAMAS (1296-1359)
[Eastern Orthodox mystic.]

HADEWIJCH [Adelwip] of Brabant/Antwerp (13th century)
[Belgian Beguine and one of the greatest exponents of love mysticism. Works: Letters, Poems in Stanzas, Visions, Poems in Couplets.]

HILDEGARD of BINGEN, Saint (1098-1179)
[Early German speculative mystic, reminiscent of Isaiah or Ezekiel at times. She was greatly respected in her time, both for her writings as well as for her music and art. Works: Scivias, The Book of Divine Works, Letters.]

HILTON, WALTER (d. 1395)
[English mystic. Works: The Scale (Ladder) of Perfection, Epistle to a Devout Man.]

HUGH of ST. VICTOR (c.1096-c.1142)
[He argues for a close tie between reason and mysticism.]

IGNATIUS of ANTIOCH (c. 35-c.107)
[Christocentric mystic. For him Christ's death and resurrection take on mystical significance.]

IRENAEUS (c.125-c.202)
[Irenaeus' work was directed against Gnosticism. He emphasized John's gospel, particularly the Logos, which became the voice of God that revealed itself to all people. Works: Revolution and Overthrow of False Knowledge (or Against Heresies).]

JOHN of the CROSS, Saint [Juan de Yepes] (1542-1591)
[Discalced Carmelite Spanish mystic. Along with Teresa of Avila, John's mysticism is union with God, attainable only in the denial of the self. Influenced by Teresa of Avila. Works: Dark Night of the Soul and Ascent of Mt. Carmel.]

JULIAN of NORWICH (1342-1413?)
[Julian was part of the "English school" of late mediaeval mysticism. Mystical experience that came at the point of death. The experience came with healing, and she devoted her life to understanding her vision. Influenced by Pseudo-Dionysius and perhaps Aquinas. Works: Showings or Revelations of Divine Love.]

JUSTIN MARTYR (c.105-c.165)
[Used Greek philosophy as the stepping-stone to Christian theology. The mystical conclusions that some Greeks arrived at, pointed to Christ. Works: First Apology.]

KEMPE, MARGERY (c.1413)
[Kempe is known primarily as the biographer of Julian of Norwich.]

LLULL, RAMON (c.1235-1315)
[Franciscan. Legend has it that he wrote 200 works, was an alchemist and a magician. He also worked on the logic of science. The "Great Art" is the scientific and mystical calculation of the interrelations of all things. Works: Great Art, The Book of the Lover and the Beloved.]

LUTHER, MARTIN (1483-1546)
[A well-known antipathy to mystics, but a foundation for mystical life in his theology of the heart, particularly in his early thought. Influences: Augustine, Theologica Germanica.

MECHTHILD of MAGDEBURG (1207-1282)
[Strongly feminine images in mysticism. Devotional mystic. Associated with the Beguines. Works: The Flowing Light of the Godhead.]

MERTON, THOMAS. (1915-1968)
[Prolific writer, Trappist monk given the name Father Louis. Spent many years at the Abbey of Gethsemani in Kentucky, USA. Died accidentally while in Southeast Asia to speak at a conference for contemplatives of many traditions.]

ORIGEN (c.185-254)
[Studied under Clement of Alexandria, and probably also Ammonius Saccus (Plotinus' teacher). He Christianized and theologized neo-Platonism. Each soul has individually fallen (emanation), and must find its way back to God (return) through the help of the Logos, Christ. Origen looks quite Gnostic at times. Works: On Principles, Against Celsus.]

PASCAL, BLAISE (1623-1662)
[French mathematician, scientist, and Jansenist. Influenced by Augustine.]

POLYCARP, Saint (c.69-c.155)
[Had a mystical vision which foretold his martyrdom by fire.]

PORETE, MARGUERITE (d. 1310)
[Works: The Mirror of Simple Souls.]

RICHARD of ST. VICTOR (d. 1173)
[Works: On Sacraments.]

ROLLE, RICHARD (1300-1349)
[Part of the "English school" of late mediaeval mysticism. Emphasizes the "physicality" of the mystical experience (feeling heat, seeing colours, etc.). Works: The Fire of Love.]

RUYSBROECK, JAN van (1293-1381)
[Flemish mystic, sometimes considered one of the Rhineland mystics, who outlined the stages of the mystical life. Works: The Adornment of the Spiritual Marriage (Spiritual Espousals), The Sparkling Stone, The Book of Supreme Truth.]

SUSO, HENRY (1295-1366)
[A Rhineland mystic. Works: The Little Book of Truth, The Little Book of Wisdom (Horologium Sapientiae).]

TAULER, JOHANNES (1300-1361)
[Rhineland mystic and Dominican. He emphasized the inner person rather than outer works, and because of this became popular in Protestant circles in the Reformation, and later Pietism and Romanticism. Was part of the same community that produced the Theologia Germanica. Works: Sermons.]
TERESA of AVILA (1515-1582)
[Spanish Carmelite nun. Formed the Discalced (Barefoot) Carmelites, with St. John of the Cross. Is very important for describing the stages of the mystical journey. Influenced by Augustine. Works: Life, by Herself; The Way of Perfection; The Interior Castle.]


TERTULLIAN (c.155-c.222)
[A faith that is a contradiction to reason. First to use trinitarian formulation for God. Works: To Martyrs, Apology, Against the Valentinians, Against Marcion, On the Soul.]

THOMAS AQUINAS, Saint (1224-1275)
[Dominican monk and the greatest Catholic theologian and philosopher. Late in life, he had a mystical experience which caused him to question his scholastic past. Works: Summa Theologica, De Anima, others.]

UNDERHILL, EVELYN (1875-1941)
[British Anglican contributor to a revival of interest in mysticism. Works: Mysticism, 12th edition. (New York: Meridian Books, 1955) which lists texts, translations, and studies for many different mystics.]

WILLIAM of ST.-THIERRY (c.1085-1148)
[A Cistercian contemporary of Bernard's who also emphasized love-mysticism, but with subtle differences from Bernard in his use of Augustine. Works: Golden Letter, On the Contemplation of God, On the Nature and Dignity of Love.]

Greek Philosophers
ARISTOTLE (384-322BCE)
[An influence on mystics, alone or in combination with Plato and Plotinus. Christianized in the high Middle Ages. Works: Metaphysics, De Anima, Nicomachean Ethics.]

PARMENIDES (c.515-c.450BCE)
[A Presocratic who adds to Pythagoras with the view that change is illusory. This distinction between the unchanging real and the changing illusory or phenomenonal, or the two-world view, is characteristic of mysticism. Works: On Nature, extant in fragments.]

PHILO (c.20 BCE-c.41CE)
[An Alexandrian Jew who drew from Platonist tradition, Stoicism, and neo-Pythagoreanism to create a fusion of the active or virtuous life and the contemplative life. Works: The Contemplative Life.]

PLATO (428-348BCE)
[His thought is the basis of most later mystical forms. Works: Sophist, Republic, Parmenides, many others.]

PLOTINUS (c.205-270CE)
[Provides the neo-Platonic basis for much Western mysticism -- Jewish, Christian, and Islamic. Works: Enneads.]

PORPHYRY (c.232-304CE)
[Compiled Plotinus' Enneads and wrote a life of Plotinus. He was strongly anti-Christian, yet he became important in the history of Christian mysticism. Works: Isagoge.]

PROCLUS [Proclusthe Lycian] (412-485CE)
[Athenian Neo-platonist, who influenced Pseudo-Dionysius, and beyond him most of the mystical tradition. Works: The Elements of Theology.]

PYTHAGORAS (c.580/570-c.500 BCE)
[A Presocratic philosopher interested in number, music, harmony, and the soul. Plato's Phaedo bears his influence.]



http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/mys/alpha.htm

I never recall any of 'this saints' in bible...can any one help me

 

[DivineNames]

I entertain no such nonesense.

Christian mystics have their own problems...

so do you...

 

[bibleberean]

http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/Reincarnation.html

This is a good link that might even help a self deceived occult mystic.

 

[Soma-Sight]

I never recall any of 'this saints' in bible...can any one help me

Yes but all those "occult" thinkers like St Thomas Aquinas were responsible for formulating YOUR infallible doctrine! "Think Original Sin here....."

 

[bibleberean]

I never recall any of 'this saints' in bible...can any one help me

Yes but all those "occult" thinkers like St Thomas Aquinas were responsible for formulating YOUR infallible doctrine! "Think Original Sin here....."

You are clueless. A true Christians doctrines come from the scriptures.

Where do you get your doctrines? Is it from "Peyote eaters" and occult mystics?

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Soma-Sight]

You are clueless. A true Christians doctrines come from the scriptures.

Where do you get your doctrines? Is it from "Peyote eaters" and occult mystics?

The Controversy

During the period from A.D. 250 to 553 controversy raged, at least intermittently, around the name of Origen, and from this controversy emerged the major objections that orthodox Christianity raises against reincarnation. Origen of Alexandria, one of Christianity's greatest systematic theologians, was a believer in reincarnation.

Origen was a man devoted to scriptural authority, a scourge to the enemies of the church, and a martyr for the faith. He was the spiritual teacher of a large and grateful posterity and yet his teachings were declared heresy in 553. The debates and controversies that flared up around his teachings are in fact the record of reincarnation in the church.

The case against Origen grew by fits and starts from about A.D. 300 (fifty years after his death) until 553. There were writers of great eminence among his critics as well as some rather obscure ecclesiasts. They included Methodius of Olympus, Epiphanius of Salamis, Theophilus, Bishop of Jerusalem, Jerome, and the Emperor Justinian. The first of these, Methodius of Olympus, was a bishop in Greece and died a martyr's death in the year 311. He and Peter of Alexandria, whose works are almost entirely lost, represent the first wave of anti-Origenism. They were concerned chiefly with the pre-existence of souls and Origen's notions about the resurrection of the dead. Another more powerful current against Origenism arose about a century later. The principals were Ephiphanius of Salamis, Theophilus of Alexandria, and Jerome. From about 395 to 403 Origen became the subject of heated debate throughout Christendom. These three ecclesiats applied much energy and thought in search of questionable doctrine in Origen. Again the controversy flared up around 535, and in the wake of this the Emperor Justinian composed a tract against Origen in 543, proposing nine anathemas against "On First Principles", Origen's chief theological work. Origen was finally officially condemned in the Second Council of Constantinople in 553, when fifteen anathemas were charged against him.

The critics of Origen attacked him on individual points, and thus did not create a systematic theology to oppose him. Nonetheless, one can glean from their writings five major points that Christianity has raised against reincarnation:

(1) It seems to minimize Christian salvation.

(2) It is in conflict with the resurrection of the body.

(3) It creates an unnatural separation between body and soul.

(4) It is built on a much too speculative use of Christian scriptures.

(5) There is no recollection of previous lives.

Any discussion of these points will be greatly clarified by a preliminary look at Origen's system. Although it is of course impossible to do justice in a few pages to a thinker as subtle and profound as Origen, some of the distinctive aspects of his thought can be summarized.

The Doctrine Itself

Looking at the sequence of creation from its inception to its conclusion, one could summarize his system as follows: Originally all beings existed as pure mind on an ideational or thought level. Humans, angels, and heavenly bodies lacked incarnate existence and had their being only as ideas. This is a very natural view for anyone like Origen who was trained in both Christian and Platonic thought. Since there is no account in the scriptures of what preceded creation, it seemed perfectly natural to Origen to appeal to Plato for his answers.

God for the Platonist is pure intelligence and all things were reconciled with God before creation - an assumption which scripture does not appear to contradict. Then as the process of fall began, individual beings became weary of their union with God and chose to defect or grow cold in their divine ardor. As the mind became cool toward God, it made the first step down in its fall and became soul. The soul, now already once removed from its original state, continued with its defection to the point of taking on a body. This, as we know from Platonism, is indeed a degradation, for the highest type of manifestation is on the mental level and the lowest is on the physical.

Such an account of man's fall does not mean that Origen rejected Genesis. It only means that he was willing to allow for allegorical interpretation; thus Eden is not necessarily spatially located, but is a cosmic and metaphysical event wherein pure disincarnate idea became fettered to physical matter. What was essential for Christianity, as Origen perceived, is that the fall be voluntary and result in a degree of estrangement from God.

Where there is a fall, there must follow the drama of reconciliation. Love is one of God's qualities, as Origen himself acknowledged, and from this it follows that God will take an interest in the redemption of his creatures. For Origen this means that after the drama of incarnation the soul assumes once again its identity as mind and recovers its ardor for God.

It was to hasten this evolution that in the fullness of time God sent the Christ. The Christ of Origen was the Incarnate Word (he was also the only being that did not grow cold toward God), and he came both as a mediator and as an incarnate image of God's goodness. By allowing the wisdom and light of God to shine in one's life through the inspiration of Jesus Christ, the individual soul could swiftly regain its ardor for God, leave behind the burden of the body, and regain complete reconciliation with God. In fact, said Origen, much to the outrage of his critics, the extent and power of God's love is so great that eventually all things will be restored to him, even Satan and his legions.

Since the soul's tenancy of any given body is but one of many episodes in its journey from God and back again, the doctrine of reincarnation is implicit. As for the resurrection of the body, Origen created a tempest of controversy by insisting that the physical body wastes away and returns to dust, while the resurrection takes on a spiritual or transformed body. This is of course handy for the reincarnationist, for it means that the resurrected body either can be the summation and climax of all the physical bodies that came before or indeed may bear no resemblance at all to the many physical bodies.

There will come a time when the great defection from God that initiated physical creation will come to an end. All things, both heavenly bodies and human souls, will be so pure and ardent in their love for God that physical existence will no longer be necessary. The entire cohesion of creation will come apart, for matter will be superfluous. Then, to cite one of Origen's favorite passages, all things will be made subject to God and God will be "all in all." (1 Cor. 15:28) This restoration of all things proposed by Origen gave offense in later centuries. It seemed quite sensible to Origen that anything that defects from God must eventually be brought back to him. As he triumphantly affirmed at the end of his "On First Principles", men are the "blood brothers" of God himself and cannot stay away forever.




http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen07.html

 

[bibleberean]

Soma,

That was a pathetic post... :roll:

True Christians not peyote lovers and followers of the occult get their doctrines from the bible.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Soma,

That was a pathetic post...

True Christians not peyote lovers and followers of the occult get their doctrines from the bible.

What does Origen have to do with Peyote?

Origen was the primo founding father of the early Church.

He wrote 6,000 different books!

6,000!

He and MANY other leading Church leaders of the day BELIEVED IN REINCARNATION!

I wonder how much you REALLY know of Church History BB?

 

[Vanaka]

please delete this post...

 

[Vanaka]

So yoga is 'Satanic,' and to be avoided. How about Chinese checkers?
Should I avoid certain types of ethnic foods?

Seriously, though, It seems that the inner journey of yoga can provoke mental distress and illness in the unstable.

I'd say the same thing is true about a fundamentalist approach to religion.

:

well..as another person here would probably say:another decived westerner :rollnot acually... I AM a westerner..just not a decived one.. :-D )


anyway,

thats like saying salt is bad because its made out of two poisons....(not excactly but very close)

and since when did food or games have anything to do with demonic practices? :-?

it just doesent add up....


say,have you guys seen constintene(or however it's spelled...) its kinda werid but it gives a good look into catholosisim....

 

[Soma-Sight]

Soma,

That was a pathetic post...

True Christians not peyote lovers and followers of the occult get their doctrines from the bible.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I see your point here BB....

But remember ONE thing....

SCRIPTURE is originally derived from EXPERIENCE!!!!

Now thats a trippy thought!!!

Unless you think scripture is derived from scripture!!!

 

[Mhz]

But remember ONE thing....

SCRIPTURE is originally derived from EXPERIENCE!!!!

Now thats a trippy thought!!!

Unless you think scripture is derived from scripture!!!

You bring up a very good point, Soma.

We walk a fine line when we claim scripture to ge equal to God. "In the beginning was Logos". Logos isn't the Bible it is Jesus.

The belief that scritpure is equal to God opens the door to strange bedfellows, as our multi-denominational debacle has proven.

 

[bibleberean]

Soma,

That was a pathetic post...

True Christians not peyote lovers and followers of the occult get their doctrines from the bible.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I see your point here BB....

But remember ONE thing....

SCRIPTURE is originally derived from EXPERIENCE!!!!

Now thats a trippy thought!!!

Unless you think scripture is derived from scripture!!!

Scripture was given by inspiration of God and the canon of scripture is closed.

The bible would not be finished if that were not the case.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The church was not founded by Origin, Augustine, Luther or Calvin.

Ephesians 2:18-21 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

I don't care how many books Origin wrote...

Ecclesiastes 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

There is no hope for those who believe that they are going to get a second chance in another life.



The bible simply does not teach that people will be reincarnated.