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[_ Old Earth _] Reliable science?

Barbarian said:
A specific date for creation is not a part of YE creationism. Indeed, as you've seen, YE creationists are often very flexible in terms of how old the universe is, as they begin to realize that it couldn't possibly be 6,000 years old. Often the new boundary is about 10,000. But that fudges too.

YE creationism is based on the Seventh-Day Adventist prophetess whose visions were evangelized to some fundamentalists in the early 1900s.
Click to expand...
jewish years.the time from the the first man on the earth ,with the belief that the time is a literal week. jews base their feasts on that week, they wont take eons for the shabat.
 
jewish years.the time from the the first man on the earth ,with the belief that the time is a literal week. jews base their feasts on that week, they wont take eons for the shabat.
Click to expand...

Most modern rabbis [4] believe that the world is older, and that life as we know it today did not always exist. They believe such a view is needed to accept scientific theories, such as the theory of evolution. Rabbis who had this view based their conclusions on verses in the Talmud or in the midrash. For example:


  • The Midrash[5] says: God created many worlds but was not satisfied, and left the world he was satisfied with.
  • Rabbi Moshe Ben Nachman (1194–1270) writes:[6] In the first day God created the energy (כח) "matter" (חומר) of all things, and then he was finished with the main creation. After that God created all other things from that energy.
  • Some midrashim state that the "first week" of Creation lasted for extremely long periods of time. See Anafim on Rabbenu Bachya's Sefer Ikkarim 2:18; Midrash Bereshit Rabbah
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_evolution
 
Most voters in the United States voted for Obama in the last presidential election.
That's a historical fact.

Saying that most modern Rabbis believe in this or that cannot be proven and therefore it is inappropriate to use to make a point in a thread entitled "Reliable Science".
 
Barbarian said:
Most modern rabbis [4] believe that the world is older, and that life as we know it today did not always exist. They believe such a view is needed to accept scientific theories, such as the theory of evolution. Rabbis who had this view based their conclusions on verses in the Talmud or in the midrash. For example:


  • The Midrash[5] says: God created many worlds but was not satisfied, and left the world he was satisfied with.
  • Rabbi Moshe Ben Nachman (1194–1270) writes:[6] In the first day God created the energy (כח) "matter" (חומר) of all things, and then he was finished with the main creation. After that God created all other things from that energy.
  • Some midrashim state that the "first week" of Creation lasted for extremely long periods of time. See Anafim on Rabbenu Bachya's Sefer Ikkarim 2:18; Midrash Bereshit Rabbah
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_evolution
Click to expand...


The Talmud is one of the most rabid anti-christian books ever assembled by satan. I personally reject it.
 
It's just an important part of Jewish theology. Not all Jews accept all parts of Jewish tradition and scripture.
 
Barbarian said:
Most modern rabbis [4] believe that the world is older, and that life as we know it today did not always exist. They believe such a view is needed to accept scientific theories, such as the theory of evolution. Rabbis who had this view based their conclusions on verses in the Talmud or in the midrash. For example:


  • The Midrash[5] says: God created many worlds but was not satisfied, and left the world he was satisfied with.
  • Rabbi Moshe Ben Nachman (1194–1270) writes:[6] In the first day God created the energy (כח) "matter" (חומר) of all things, and then he was finished with the main creation. After that God created all other things from that energy.
  • Some midrashim state that the "first week" of Creation lasted for extremely long periods of time. See Anafim on Rabbenu Bachya's Sefer Ikkarim 2:18; Midrash Bereshit Rabbah
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_evolution
Click to expand...
Use Jewish sites ,nor Wikipedia.
 
Paloma said:
The Talmud is one of the most rabid anti-christian books ever assembled by satan. I personally reject it.
Click to expand...
It's not books,commentary. It wasn't
Even written until Christians started killing them.besides non Talmud jews called kariates do the feasts as I say.
 
jasonc said:
It's not books,commentary. It wasn't
Even written until Christians started killing them.besides non Talmud jews called kariates do the feasts as I say.
Click to expand...
Noticed he picked a minority view.the chassidic sect,which are the largest of the jewish groups aren't even that way.I also didn't say anything about their view of the ages of the earth.only their calender was from Adams creation to present,and I use any Jewish calender for feasts.they all start at sundown in Jerusalem.that means that days in their view were literal since shabbat is literally based on exodus.
 
Paloma said:
The Talmud is one of the most rabid anti-christian books ever assembled by satan. I personally reject it.
Click to expand...
I assume you've read the Talmud?
I've never met anyone who has actually read the Talmud.
I went to buy one once at a Jewish Community Center and it cost 1,000's of dollars and there were many volumes.
I thought maybe it was a book about the size of the Bible.
I don't think one should criticize a book they've never read.
If you have read it, I would like to hear more as to why you think it is evil.
But if you've never read it, then I'm not interested in your opinion.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
I assume you've read the Talmud?
I've never met anyone who has actually read the Talmud.
I went to buy one once at a Jewish Community Center and it cost 1,000's of dollars and there were many volumes.
I thought maybe it was a book about the size of the Bible.
I don't think one should criticize a book they've never read.
If you have read it, I would like to hear more as to why you think it is evil.
But if you've never read it, then I'm not interested in your opinion.
Click to expand...
You can purchase it online.
 
Looks like a controversy within Judaism. But that's not surprising. As you see, we have some Christians who think the world is less than 10,000 years old.
 
Barbarian said:
Looks like a controversy within Judaism. But that's not surprising. As you see, we have some Christians who think the world is less than 10,000 years old.
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oh I'm Sure if I dug up catholic dogma,commentaries prior to Vatican one or two you would find some controversies.that said the rcc is a minority in my county.st Helens, st John of the cross,holy cross by the sea,st Sebastian are big as well as the Dolores parish ran by st Helens for the spanish.of those ,not counting st eds,or st Helens schools.I bet not much is given on thought on genesis in this manner in either way.even if they are outnumbered.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
I assume you've read the Talmud?
I've never met anyone who has actually read the Talmud.
I went to buy one once at a Jewish Community Center and it cost 1,000's of dollars and there were many volumes.
I thought maybe it was a book about the size of the Bible.
I don't think one should criticize a book they've never read.
If you have read it, I would like to hear more as to why you think it is evil.
But if you've never read it, then I'm not interested in your opinion.
Click to expand...



I read enough to know its not from God.

Judaism: Its not about the Bible
The “holiest” book of Judaism is NOT the Old Testament of the Bible, it is the Talmud – the “written down traditions of the Pharisees “Oral doctrines” that Jesus so strongly rebuked,
Jesus said,
“You teach for doctrines the commandments of men.” Matthew 15:9
Jesus referred to them as vipers the synagogue of Satan and “of your father the Devil” because “By your traditions you have made the Word of God” of no effect. Mark 7:13
The Talmud is the antithesis of the Bible. The Talmud teaches Jews to hate Gentiles, to steal from them, even kill them.
Here are a number of quotes from the Talmud, the “holiest” book of Judaism and the Jews.

Talmudic Interpretation of Scripture

Elijah and Moses blamed God for causing the Israelites to sin. God admitted that they were right. (BT Berakoth 31b-32a).
The Old Testament’s new moon goat sacrifice is to atone for the sin of God. (BT Shebuoth 9a).
Adam had sexual relations with all the animals in the Garden of Eden. (BT Yebamoth 63a).
If one hits his father or mother without causing a wound, he is not guilty and should not be killed (BT Sanhedrin 85b).
One who curses his father or mother is not guilty unless he uses the Divine name in the curse (BT Sanhendrin 66a).
The commandment of Moses forbidding enchantments (witchcraft) refers only to enchantments performed with weasels, birds or fish (Bt Sanhendrin 66a).
A man is not guilty of murder if he causes a poisonous snake to kill a man: the snake should be executed for murder, while the man goes free (BT Sanhendrin 76b, 78a).
If someone ties up his neighbor and the neighbor dies of starvation, or if he incapacitates a man in the presence of a lion and the lions kill the incapacitated man, the man who was the perpetrator is not guilty of murder. (BT Sanhendrin 77a).
Killing a terminally ill person is not murder. (BT Sanhedrin 78a).
King Saul was punished by God because he did not take vengeance on his enemies; no one can be true scholar unless he takes vengeance (BT Yoma 22b).
Hating your enemy is permitted, even commanded (BT Pesahim 113b).
Living in the land of Israel gives one eternal life (BT Pesahim 113a).
Agriculture is the lowest form of occupations. (BT Tebamoth 63a).
He who recites Psalm 145 three times a day will have eternal life. (BT Berakoth 4b).
The medicinal value of the excrement of a white dog: to heal the disease of pleurisy (“catarrh”) a Jew should “take the excrement of a white dog and knead if with balsam, but if he can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dog’s excrement as it loosens the limbs.” (BT Gittin 69b).
Epilepsy is caused be standing naked in front of a lamp, or sexual relations with the light on. (BT Pesahim 112b).
The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is given. (BT Shabbath 41a).
Eating beef and turnips causes fever if it is followed by the summer moonlight. (BT Gittin 70a).
Not burying cut fingernails causes miscarriages. (BT Moed Katan 18a).
Everyone has two kidneys, one of which inspires good deeds; the other, bad deeds. (BT Berakoth 61a).
After seven years, hyenas turn into bats. After even longer periods, they turn into thorns and demons. (BT Baba Kamma 16a).
Some antelopes grow as big as mountains; some frogs as big as fortresses. (These are eyewitness accounts by Rabbis). (BT Baba Bathra 73b).
Bad-temper is caused by birth on Monday; riches and sexual promiscuity caused by birth on Tuesday; those who desecrate the Sabbath by being born thereon will die on the Sabbath. (BT Shabbatb 156a).
Solar eclipses caused by improperly mourning the death of particular Rabbis; Lunar eclipses caused by raising small cattle in Israel. (BT Sukkah 29a).
It is forbidden for dogs women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads. (BT Pesahim 111a).
Demonic danger is involved when one drinks water on the evenings of Wednesday and Sabbaths. (BT Pesahim 1112a).
940,000 Israelites were killed on one stone. (BT Gittin 57a – 57b).
Sixteen million Israelite children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans at Bathar. (BT Gittin 58a).
Four billion Israelites were killed by the Romans in one city, the city of Bethar. (Some rabbis say “only” forty million were killed there). (BT Gittin 57b).
Zimri engaged Cozbi in sexual relations 424 times in one day. Also her womb was one-and-1/2 feet wide. (BT Sanhedrin 82b).
Obed-Edom’s wife and eight daughters-in-law all give birth to six children at a time (BT Berakoth 63b).
He who stays unmarried, doesn’t wear phylacteries, or doesn’t wear shoes, cannot go to heaven (BT Pesahim 113b).
Women cannot conceive before they reach twelve years and a day, according to the Rabbis. When asked how it was possible that a gentile girl had conceived at age six, the Rabbi replied that gentiles are not human. (BT Niddah 45a).


The Superiority of Jews

If a gentile hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed (BT Sanhedrin 58b).
A gentile who strikes a Jew deserves death. Striking a Jew is in God’s eyes an assault on the Divine Presence. (BT Sanhedrin 58b).
All the blessings which gentiles enjoy come to them only because of God’s regard for Israel. (BT Yebamoth 63a).
A Jew need not pay a gentile the wages owed him for work (BT Sanhedrin 57a).
If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite (non-Jew) there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite…the payment is be in full. (BT Baba Kamma 37b).
The deeds of Israel are righteous, but the gentiles are capable only of sin. (BT Baba Bathra 10b).
Wine touched by a gentile renders has been defiled and is unfit for use by Jews. (BT Abodah Zarah 72b). Thieves of unknown ethnic background broke into a Jew’s building and touched his wine. Since he did not know who touched the wine, he way unsure whether or not it had been defiled by a gentile’s touch. The rabbis rule that since the majority of thieves in that city were Jews, the wine was undefiled. (BT Abodah Zarah 70a).
Abodah Zarah 17a states that there is not a whore in the whole world that the Talmudic sage Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.
Hagigah 27a declares that no rabbi can ever go to hell.
Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell (BT Erubin 21b).
A sly rabbi debates God and through trickery defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate. (BT Baba Mezia 59b).


The Inferiority of Gentiles


Gentiles are inclined to bestiality, lewdness and murder. Gentiles prefer sexual relations with cows more than their own wives. Eve had sexual intercourse with the serpent, transmitting lust to the gentiles, from which Israelites are exempt. (BT Abodah Zarah 22a).
A gentile who observes a day of rest deserves death. (BT Sandendrin 58b).
God is displeased when Jews show hospitality to gentiles. (BT Sanhendrin 104a).
It is forbidden to teach gentiles the Law. (BT Hagigah 13a).
A gentile who studies the Law deserves death. (BT Sanhedrin 59a).
It is permissible to cheat a gentile in court. (BT Baba Kamma 113a).
For executing a gentile, only one person’s testimony is necessary. (To kill a Jew, two witnesses are necessary). (BT Sanhendrin 57b0>
Jews may steal from Non-Jews
If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile it does not have to be returned. (BT Baba Mezia 24a. Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b).
Property of gentiles is like the desert; whoever among the Jews gets there first, owns it. (BT Baba Bathra 54b).
If a gentile loses something, a Jew may keep it, even if he knows the owner. (BT Baba Kamma 113b).
A gentile must pay wages to a Jew, but a Jew does not have to pay wages to a gentile. (BT Sanhedrin 57a).
The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has “exposed their money to Israel.” (BT Baba Kamma 37b).
If a gentile robs a Jew, he must pay him back. But whatever a Jew robs from a gentile, the Jew may keep. Some robbery of gentiles is disguised as “confiscation of an unpaid debt” (Bava Kama 113b; also Bava Metzia 111b).
BT Sanhedrin 52B: “A non-Jew is not considered a neighbor.”
 
Paloma said:
I read enough to know its not from God.

Judaism: Its not about the Bible
The “holiest” book of Judaism is NOT the Old Testament of the Bible, it is the Talmud – the “written down traditions of the Pharisees “Oral doctrines” that Jesus so strongly rebuked,
Jesus said,
“You teach for doctrines the commandments of men.” Matthew 15:9
Jesus referred to them as vipers the synagogue of Satan and “of your father the Devil” because “By your traditions you have made the Word of God” of no effect. Mark 7:13
The Talmud is the antithesis of the Bible. The Talmud teaches Jews to hate Gentiles, to steal from them, even kill them.
Here are a number of quotes from the Talmud, the “holiest” book of Judaism and the Jews.

Talmudic Interpretation of Scripture

Elijah and Moses blamed God for causing the Israelites to sin. God admitted that they were right. (BT Berakoth 31b-32a).
The Old Testament’s new moon goat sacrifice is to atone for the sin of God. (BT Shebuoth 9a).
Adam had sexual relations with all the animals in the Garden of Eden. (BT Yebamoth 63a).
If one hits his father or mother without causing a wound, he is not guilty and should not be killed (BT Sanhedrin 85b).
One who curses his father or mother is not guilty unless he uses the Divine name in the curse (BT Sanhendrin 66a).
The commandment of Moses forbidding enchantments (witchcraft) refers only to enchantments performed with weasels, birds or fish (Bt Sanhendrin 66a).
A man is not guilty of murder if he causes a poisonous snake to kill a man: the snake should be executed for murder, while the man goes free (BT Sanhendrin 76b, 78a).
If someone ties up his neighbor and the neighbor dies of starvation, or if he incapacitates a man in the presence of a lion and the lions kill the incapacitated man, the man who was the perpetrator is not guilty of murder. (BT Sanhendrin 77a).
Killing a terminally ill person is not murder. (BT Sanhedrin 78a).
King Saul was punished by God because he did not take vengeance on his enemies; no one can be true scholar unless he takes vengeance (BT Yoma 22b).
Hating your enemy is permitted, even commanded (BT Pesahim 113b).
Living in the land of Israel gives one eternal life (BT Pesahim 113a).
Agriculture is the lowest form of occupations. (BT Tebamoth 63a).
He who recites Psalm 145 three times a day will have eternal life. (BT Berakoth 4b).
The medicinal value of the excrement of a white dog: to heal the disease of pleurisy (“catarrh”) a Jew should “take the excrement of a white dog and knead if with balsam, but if he can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dog’s excrement as it loosens the limbs.” (BT Gittin 69b).
Epilepsy is caused be standing naked in front of a lamp, or sexual relations with the light on. (BT Pesahim 112b).
The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is given. (BT Shabbath 41a).
Eating beef and turnips causes fever if it is followed by the summer moonlight. (BT Gittin 70a).
Not burying cut fingernails causes miscarriages. (BT Moed Katan 18a).
Everyone has two kidneys, one of which inspires good deeds; the other, bad deeds. (BT Berakoth 61a).
After seven years, hyenas turn into bats. After even longer periods, they turn into thorns and demons. (BT Baba Kamma 16a).
Some antelopes grow as big as mountains; some frogs as big as fortresses. (These are eyewitness accounts by Rabbis). (BT Baba Bathra 73b).
Bad-temper is caused by birth on Monday; riches and sexual promiscuity caused by birth on Tuesday; those who desecrate the Sabbath by being born thereon will die on the Sabbath. (BT Shabbatb 156a).
Solar eclipses caused by improperly mourning the death of particular Rabbis; Lunar eclipses caused by raising small cattle in Israel. (BT Sukkah 29a).
It is forbidden for dogs women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads. (BT Pesahim 111a).
Demonic danger is involved when one drinks water on the evenings of Wednesday and Sabbaths. (BT Pesahim 1112a).
940,000 Israelites were killed on one stone. (BT Gittin 57a – 57b).
Sixteen million Israelite children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans at Bathar. (BT Gittin 58a).
Four billion Israelites were killed by the Romans in one city, the city of Bethar. (Some rabbis say “only” forty million were killed there). (BT Gittin 57b).
Zimri engaged Cozbi in sexual relations 424 times in one day. Also her womb was one-and-1/2 feet wide. (BT Sanhedrin 82b).
Obed-Edom’s wife and eight daughters-in-law all give birth to six children at a time (BT Berakoth 63b).
He who stays unmarried, doesn’t wear phylacteries, or doesn’t wear shoes, cannot go to heaven (BT Pesahim 113b).
Women cannot conceive before they reach twelve years and a day, according to the Rabbis. When asked how it was possible that a gentile girl had conceived at age six, the Rabbi replied that gentiles are not human. (BT Niddah 45a).


The Superiority of Jews

If a gentile hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed (BT Sanhedrin 58b).
A gentile who strikes a Jew deserves death. Striking a Jew is in God’s eyes an assault on the Divine Presence. (BT Sanhedrin 58b).
All the blessings which gentiles enjoy come to them only because of God’s regard for Israel. (BT Yebamoth 63a).
A Jew need not pay a gentile the wages owed him for work (BT Sanhedrin 57a).
If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite (non-Jew) there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite…the payment is be in full. (BT Baba Kamma 37b).
The deeds of Israel are righteous, but the gentiles are capable only of sin. (BT Baba Bathra 10b).
Wine touched by a gentile renders has been defiled and is unfit for use by Jews. (BT Abodah Zarah 72b). Thieves of unknown ethnic background broke into a Jew’s building and touched his wine. Since he did not know who touched the wine, he way unsure whether or not it had been defiled by a gentile’s touch. The rabbis rule that since the majority of thieves in that city were Jews, the wine was undefiled. (BT Abodah Zarah 70a).
Abodah Zarah 17a states that there is not a whore in the whole world that the Talmudic sage Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.
Hagigah 27a declares that no rabbi can ever go to hell.
Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell (BT Erubin 21b).
A sly rabbi debates God and through trickery defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate. (BT Baba Mezia 59b).


The Inferiority of Gentiles


Gentiles are inclined to bestiality, lewdness and murder. Gentiles prefer sexual relations with cows more than their own wives. Eve had sexual intercourse with the serpent, transmitting lust to the gentiles, from which Israelites are exempt. (BT Abodah Zarah 22a).
A gentile who observes a day of rest deserves death. (BT Sandendrin 58b).
God is displeased when Jews show hospitality to gentiles. (BT Sanhendrin 104a).
It is forbidden to teach gentiles the Law. (BT Hagigah 13a).
A gentile who studies the Law deserves death. (BT Sanhedrin 59a).
It is permissible to cheat a gentile in court. (BT Baba Kamma 113a).
For executing a gentile, only one person’s testimony is necessary. (To kill a Jew, two witnesses are necessary). (BT Sanhendrin 57b0>
Jews may steal from Non-Jews
If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile it does not have to be returned. (BT Baba Mezia 24a. Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b).
Property of gentiles is like the desert; whoever among the Jews gets there first, owns it. (BT Baba Bathra 54b).
If a gentile loses something, a Jew may keep it, even if he knows the owner. (BT Baba Kamma 113b).
A gentile must pay wages to a Jew, but a Jew does not have to pay wages to a gentile. (BT Sanhedrin 57a).
The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has “exposed their money to Israel.” (BT Baba Kamma 37b).
If a gentile robs a Jew, he must pay him back. But whatever a Jew robs from a gentile, the Jew may keep. Some robbery of gentiles is disguised as “confiscation of an unpaid debt” (Bava Kama 113b; also Bava Metzia 111b).
BT Sanhedrin 52B: “A non-Jew is not considered a neighbor.”
Click to expand...


You sound full of hatred.
 
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