Repetitious Prayer

[Mungo]

The Bible condemns repetitious prayer (Mt 6:7)
(Usually said in reference to the Rosary)

“when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do” (KJV)
Jesus did not condemn repetitious prayer but vain repetitons
vain
c.1300, "devoid of real value, idle, unprofitable," from O.Fr. vein "worthless," from L. vanus "idle, empty," from PIE *wa-no-, from root *eue- "to leave, abandon, give out" (cf. O.E. wanian "to lessen," wan "deficient;" O.N. vanta "to lack;" L. vacare "to be empty," vastus "empty, waste;" Avestan va- "lack," Pers. vang "empty, poor;" Skt. una- "deficient"). Meaning "conceited" first recorded 1690s, from earlier sense of "silly, idle, foolish" (late 14c.). Phrase in vain "to no effect" (c.1300, after L. in vanum) preserves the original sense. (Online Etymology Dictionary)

vain
2 producing no result; useless. having no likelihood of fulfilment: a vain boast. (Concise Oxford English Dictionary)

This is sometimes translated as babbling:
“In praying, do not babble like the pagans” (NAB)

or empty phrases (RSV)
“And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do

Jesus himself prayed repetitiously as in the Garden of Gethsemene:
“And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words” (Mt 26:44)

Psalm 136 is very repetitious, repeating the words “God’s love endures forever” 26 time

The four living creatures before the throne say repetitious prayers:
“And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.” (Rev 4:8)

And then the 24 elders say repeatedly:
“Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created” (Rev 4:11)

As for the Rosary, it is using scripture to meditate on scripture.
It has also been more easily seen how the orderly and gradual unfolding of the Rosary reflects the very way in which the Word of God, mercifully entering into human affairs, brought about the Redemption. The Rosary considers in harmonious succession the principal salvific events accomplished in Christ, from His virginal conception and the mysteries of His childhood to the culminating moments of the Passover-the blessed passion and the glorious resurrection-and to the effects of this on the infant Church on the day of Pentecost, and on the Virgin Mary when at the end of her earthly life she was assumed body and soul into her heavenly home.
As a Gospel prayer, centered on the mystery of the redemptive Incarnation, the Rosary is therefore a prayer with a clearly Christological orientation. Its most characteristic element, in fact, the litany-like succession of Hail Mary's, becomes in itself an unceasing praise of Christ, who is the ultimate object both of the angel's announcement and of the greeting of the mother of John the Baptist: "Blessed is the fruit of your womb" (Lk. 1:42).
By its nature the recitation of the Rosary calls for a quiet rhythm and a lingering pace, helping the individual to meditate on the mysteries of the Lord's life as seen through the eyes of her who was closest to the Lord. In this way the unfathomable riches of these mysteries are unfolded.
Taken from Marialis Cultus by Pope Paul VI

 

[WIP]

You are correct that Jesus never condemned repeated prayers. He was speaking about what comes from one's heart. It's the same theme when He spoke of giving alms, charitable deeds, fasting, and praying aloud.

I would not be surprised to discover that most people that recite the rosary are vainly repeating the prayers. In other words they recite the words they have been taught rather than praying those words from their heart. To their credit, most of their repeated prayers are not to the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit but to Mary, asking for her intercessional prayers for them.

Consider this. Why use a rosary in order to keep track of everything? When Jesus prayed in the garden, I sincerely doubt He counted in order to keep track of how many times He repeated His prayers.

 

[Mungo]

You are correct that Jesus never condemned repeated prayers. He was speaking about what comes from one's heart. It's the same theme when He spoke of giving alms, charitable deeds, fasting, and praying aloud.

I would not be surprised to discover that most people that recite the rosary are vainly repeating the prayers. In other words they recite the words they have been taught rather than praying those words from their heart. To their credit, most of their repeated prayers are not to the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit but to Mary, asking for her intercessional prayers for them.

Consider this. Why use a rosary in order to keep track of everything? When Jesus prayed in the garden, I sincerely doubt He counted in order to keep track of how many times He repeated His prayers.

The Rosary is meant to be a meditation on the life of Christ. The Directory of Popular Piety, issued by the Vatican says:
The Rosary is essentially a contemplative prayer, which requires "tranquillity of rhythm or even a mental lingering which encourages the faithful to meditate on the mysteries of the Lord's life".
I expect some people do rattle it off, but it is not meant to be that way.
Some people start each decade with a reading from scripture that reflects the theme of that decade.
As to the beads and number of "Hail Mary's" etc we need to understand the origins and how it developed.

I’m no expert on the origins of this but I understand its roots go back to the time when priests and religious recited all 150 psalms over the week. Poor people, unable to read said 150 “Our Father’s” instead, using knotted cords or beads on cords. The Our Father in Latin is Paternoster and there is still a street in London called Paternoster Row, where such beaded cords were made. When devotion to Mary grew the original greeting of Gabriel to Mary was used expressed as “Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee”. Later Elizabeth’s greeting was added (Lk 1:42) and then other words added until we get the Hail Mary as we know it today. In the15th century the idea of meditating on the events of Christ’s life was introduced and the beads divided into sets of 10. It gradually evolved to what we have today which is a meditation on the life of Christ.

Wikipedia, in it's article on Paternoster Row, has a slight variation on this:
As far back as the 12th century, the road was known as Paternoster Row, as it was the main place in London where Paternoster beads were made by skilled craftsmen. The beads were popular with illiterate monks and friars at the time, who prayed 30 Paternoster prayers (Latin for "Our Father") three times a day as a substitute for the 150 psalms recited a day by literate monks.

 

[rod1011]

The Rosary is meant to be a meditation on the life of Christ. The Directory of Popular Piety, issued by the Vatican says:
The Rosary is essentially a contemplative prayer, which requires "tranquillity of rhythm or even a mental lingering which encourages the faithful to meditate on the mysteries of the Lord's life".
I expect some people do rattle it off, but it is not meant to be that way.
Some people start each decade with a reading from scripture that reflects the theme of that decade.
As to the beads and number of "Hail Mary's" etc we need to understand the origins and how it developed.

I’m no expert on the origins of this but I understand its roots go back to the time when priests and religious recited all 150 psalms over the week. Poor people, unable to read said 150 “Our Father’s” instead, using knotted cords or beads on cords. The Our Father in Latin is Paternoster and there is still a street in London called Paternoster Row, where such beaded cords were made. When devotion to Mary grew the original greeting of Gabriel to Mary was used expressed as “Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee”. Later Elizabeth’s greeting was added (Lk 1:42) and then other words added until we get the Hail Mary as we know it today. In the15th century the idea of meditating on the events of Christ’s life was introduced and the beads divided into sets of 10. It gradually evolved to what we have today which is a meditation on the life of Christ.

Wikipedia, in it's article on Paternoster Row, has a slight variation on this:
As far back as the 12th century, the road was known as Paternoster Row, as it was the main place in London where Paternoster beads were made by skilled craftsmen. The beads were popular with illiterate monks and friars at the time, who prayed 30 Paternoster prayers (Latin for "Our Father") three times a day as a substitute for the 150 psalms recited a day by literate monks.

Can you change the Roman Catholic follower to say Lets Meditate Rosary not Pray the Rosary. Can you do that?

 

[Mungo]

Can you change the Roman Catholic follower to say Lets Meditate Rosary not Pray the Rosary. Can you do that?

Please read - Catholic Church (CC) vs Roman Catholic Church (RCC)

 

[rod1011]

Please read - Catholic Church (CC) vs Roman Catholic Church (RCC)

Read what? That brother francis appeal?

 

[Mungo]

Read what? That brother francis appeal?

Read it for a proper understanding of Catholicism and the Catholic Church

 

[Scripture Says]

Mongo said:
Jesus himself prayed repetitiously as in the Garden of Gethsemene:
“And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words” (Mt 26:44


Scripture Says: you mean when Jesus was asking about having the cup before him removed but not His will but the Fathers.. lol really... you equate a one time personal prayer the same as repeating the rosary?

Sorry mongo but Jesus only repeated a personal prayer to God and thats Not what you do with the hail mary's and rosary.... not even close

Also the part about the repetitions being in vain, I think you try and again focus on the word vain as if vain repetitions is one word... it could also read repetitious prayer is in vain.... its easy to understand but you again have been taught that saying the same thing over and over isnt repetitious.. thats the very definition of repetitious saying your hail marys.... no where in the word are people told to repeat a static prayer... even when the disciples asked Jesus about the so called Lords prayer you wernt supose to use it as your prayer, they asked "teach us how to pray" not teach us What to prayer... Jesus taught them an example or the basic structure of addressing God.

 

[Scripture Says]

Even rosary beads were taking up by the rcc from ungodly religions like Buddhists.which was likely adapted from Hinduism... its certainly unbiblical and used to worship many devils along its path.. so of course any person of God should have nothing to do with it...

 

[Scripture Says]

Psalm 136 is very repetitious, repeating the words “God’s love endures forever” 26 times.....




Oh MY.... you think a Statement such as Gods love is equated to a prayer to mary?
One prayer is to God and the other is to a woman which the bible says - the dead which mary is.... know nothing at all... no where in the bible do they pray to a dead person except the heathen.

 

[Scripture Says]

At the end of the day God wants a one on one talk with you about your walk with Him..... not a pre-processed one size fits all prayer.... youd never sit down with the Father and start by repeating the same thing which has nothing to do with God and your walk with Him over and over again.... doesnt make any sense either...

 

[Augustine]

I'm a Catholic convert (from evangelicalism). Like so many ex-Protestants, I really struggle with Mary.

To be honest, it still feels idolatrous and the Rosary feels like vain repetition. Perhaps I was poorly catechised and still don't 'get it'.

For a moment, I suppressed these feelings and prayed the Rosary regularly (I joined in the other Mary stuff at my parish too). Live by faith they said...

However, I've decided that I need to be honest with myself. I won't pray any Marian prayers if it doesn't sit well with my conscience.

So now my prayer life has returned to 'free style' prayers where I just tell God the deepest things going on in my heart...pure and simple...

 

[Christ_empowered]

I dunno ?‍

I’m Protestant. No prayer for a while in part because of vain and repetitious…

And I’d been too steeped in Pentecostal psychology hiding behind bible verses…

Maybe right maybe wrong…

Now I try to pray more along scriptural advice…nations leaders enemies others in general sins…

And it’s not vain etc but somewhat repetitive…

But I’m following a solidly biblical outline…

 

[Scripture Says]

I'm a Catholic convert (from evangelicalism). Like so many ex-Protestants


theres a 3rd choice, the Holy Spirit and you plus a good bible...and a concordance and your dinning room table.... I'd bet youd find both teach things wrong and I'm not talking little things either.... anyone can make the bible say anything to those who dont know the word well, why do you think there are 2 groups one saying eternal security is true and others say no thats not true... only when you put both sides together do you see the truth.....

 

[Scripture Says]

To be honest, it still feels idolatrous and the Rosary feels like vain repetition. Perhaps I was poorly catechised and still don't 'get it'.


Scripture Says: can you find believers in the Bible who used beads like catholics do?
You see the hindus passed it on to Buddhist who have then passed it on to you... since the have devils for gods should not you separate yourself from those things?

These are just questions you should ask yourself.

 

[Scripture Says]

For a moment, I suppressed these feelings and prayed the Rosary regularly (I joined in the other Mary stuff at my parish too). Live by faith they said

Scripture Says: thats faith in Jesus not the rosary....

 

[evenifigoalone]

If God has creatures around the throne constantly chanting "holy holy holy is the Lord God Almighty" I don't think He has any problem with repetition so long as there is heart behind it

 

[Mungo]

To be honest, it still feels idolatrous and the Rosary feels like vain repetition. Perhaps I was poorly catechised and still don't 'get it'.


Scripture Says: can you find believers in the Bible who used beads like catholics do?
You see the hindus passed it on to Buddhist who have then passed it on to you... since the have devils for gods should not you separate yourself from those things?

These are just questions you should ask yourself.

This is a silly argument.
Pagans drive cars. Does driving a car make christians pagan?
Pagans eat with a knife and fork. Does eating with a knife and form make christians pagans?
Etc. etc. etc.

 

[Highway54]

The Bible condemns repetitious prayer (Mt 6:7)
(Usually said in reference to the Rosary)

“when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do” (KJV)
Jesus did not condemn repetitious prayer but vain repetitons
vain
c.1300, "devoid of real value, idle, unprofitable," from O.Fr. vein "worthless," from L. vanus "idle, empty," from PIE *wa-no-, from root *eue- "to leave, abandon, give out" (cf. O.E. wanian "to lessen," wan "deficient;" O.N. vanta "to lack;" L. vacare "to be empty," vastus "empty, waste;" Avestan va- "lack," Pers. vang "empty, poor;" Skt. una- "deficient"). Meaning "conceited" first recorded 1690s, from earlier sense of "silly, idle, foolish" (late 14c.). Phrase in vain "to no effect" (c.1300, after L. in vanum) preserves the original sense. (Online Etymology Dictionary)

vain
2 producing no result; useless. having no likelihood of fulfilment: a vain boast. (Concise Oxford English Dictionary)

This is sometimes translated as babbling:
“In praying, do not babble like the pagans” (NAB)

or empty phrases (RSV)
“And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do

Jesus himself prayed repetitiously as in the Garden of Gethsemene:
“And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words” (Mt 26:44)

Psalm 136 is very repetitious, repeating the words “God’s love endures forever” 26 time

The four living creatures before the throne say repetitious prayers:
“And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.” (Rev 4:8)

And then the 24 elders say repeatedly:
“Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created” (Rev 4:11)

As for the Rosary, it is using scripture to meditate on scripture.
It has also been more easily seen how the orderly and gradual unfolding of the Rosary reflects the very way in which the Word of God, mercifully entering into human affairs, brought about the Redemption. The Rosary considers in harmonious succession the principal salvific events accomplished in Christ, from His virginal conception and the mysteries of His childhood to the culminating moments of the Passover-the blessed passion and the glorious resurrection-and to the effects of this on the infant Church on the day of Pentecost, and on the Virgin Mary when at the end of her earthly life she was assumed body and soul into her heavenly home.
As a Gospel prayer, centered on the mystery of the redemptive Incarnation, the Rosary is therefore a prayer with a clearly Christological orientation. Its most characteristic element, in fact, the litany-like succession of Hail Mary's, becomes in itself an unceasing praise of Christ, who is the ultimate object both of the angel's announcement and of the greeting of the mother of John the Baptist: "Blessed is the fruit of your womb" (Lk. 1:42).
By its nature the recitation of the Rosary calls for a quiet rhythm and a lingering pace, helping the individual to meditate on the mysteries of the Lord's life as seen through the eyes of her who was closest to the Lord. In this way the unfathomable riches of these mysteries are unfolded.
Taken from Marialis Cultus by Pope Paul VI

Pray from the heart for sure.