Resurrections A Challnege For futurists

[jasoncran]

The only truly Indigenous peoples are Noah and family.

I knew what you meant. Mexicans were not the first owners I would that some orental or peoples from what is now Russia, where here sorta first.

actually chinese junks were the first to america they predate the vikings by a few centuries a junk was found near san fran.

 

[jasoncran]

you are thinking of the native americans who are actually asiatic and the navajos have a language similar to japenese.
its believed that the asians crossed the land bridge over the bering strait.

 

[reba]

Way too much junk in San Francisco

 

[jasoncran]

Way too much junk in San Francisco

rofl.

 

[jasoncran]

Way too much junk in San Francisco

junks are ships that could sail fast and far. still in use over there in china.

 

[reba]

Looking at the peoples faces one can tell the progression. The more northwest the more oriental features

 

[Hitch]

FerPeteSakeTopicPeople

 

[reba]

junks are ships that could sail fast and far. still in use over there in china.

DUH!

 

[reba]

itdontmeanafengifitaintgothatshui,dowopduwop
​

OK topic

 

[jasoncran]

ok thenbackontopic

 

[Sinthesis]

I have a grasp of Hitch's use, but disagree that it negates the more commonly held use; at least in the general sense


Elaborate a little , I'd like to make sure we understand each other, Im a little doubtful in light of your comment.

Jhn 6:54 - Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.​

I don't completely agree with you. Below I've highlighted the problematic area. If 'communion' with Jesus into Christianity is itself resurrection to eternal life, then why the promise of a further resurrection on the 'last day'.

The purpose here is to show cause why the 'First Resurrection' is the regeneration (born-again) of the believer and not a Resurrection of the body.

The believer today meets all the requirements of the definition.

He is 'blessed and made holy '(II cor 5;21) because he is a partner in the Resurrection of Christ.This is how we become joint -heirs. Any one denying the Resurrrection of Christ is antichrist as unless He was raised bodily from the dead our faith is nothing.


Pete refers to the Church as;


1 Pet 2:5
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
(KJV)

John of course concurrs; (note the tense)

Rev 1:6
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
(KJV)

This 'priesthood' is entirely populated by those who 'overcome'. As Paul writes;


Rom 8:36-37
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
(KJV)


Conquerors and overcomers are translated from the same original word. Every christian is expected to be faithful even unto death, so being 'more than conquerors' is the status of all believers in Christ, whether events demonstrated this in life (martyerdom) or not. Every believer is passed from death unto life. And is securely covered under the Blood of Christ. This renders him free from the power of the 'second death' and allows him to' reign in life by one, Jesus Christ'.

Thus each requirement as liniated in v6 is already accomplished in the believer.


It is as important as it is common to refer to the born-again believer as being 'raised up,,formerly dead...


Eph 2:5-6
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
(KJV)
Eph 2:1
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(KJV)

I Jn 3:14
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
(KJV)

The pattern here follows;
Num 19:11-12


11 He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days.
12 He shall purify himself with it on the third day, and on the seventh day he shall be clean: but if he purify not himself the third day, then the seventh day he shall not be clean.
(KJV)


With our 'patnership' in the 'First Resurrection', which came on the Third day. we gain newness of life through the righteousness of Christ imputed judically. This is common to all believers and without it we cannot be seen as 'clean' on the seventh day (last day).

All must participate in the 'third day cleansing' or 'First Resurrection' . Every believer must have a part here. But not every believer will be raised bodily. By the same token every believer must be raised spiritually.

Of course Christ offered up His body as a Sacrfice and neeeded not be raised in the spiritual sense, as we do. So His Resurrection does not require the second step. Thus for the believer, the First Resurrection is first in order and importance.

Take care

Hitch

 

[Hitch]

Jhn 6:54 - Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
​

I don't completely agree with you.

Not a problem ,but its worth the effort to make sure we undertand one another

Below I've highlighted the problematic area. If 'communion' with Jesus into Christianity is itself resurrection to eternal life, then why the promise of a further resurrection on the 'last day'.

The purpose here is to show cause why the 'First Resurrection' is the regeneration (born-again) of the believer and not a Resurrection of the body.

The believer today meets all the requirements of the definition.

He is 'blessed and made holy '(II cor 5;21) because he is a partner in the Resurrection of Christ.This is how we become joint -heirs. Any one denying the Resurrrection of Christ is antichrist as unless He was raised bodily from the dead our faith is nothing.

As stated the purpose of the thread is to demonstrate from scripture why the 'resurrection ' portayed in R20 is spiritual rather than physical.
Included in that OP are passages that clealry show the living believer today has all the blessings listed in R 20;6. Freedom from the Second Death, priesthood , and placement in the royal household.
I assume you're in agreement so far.

A second point is that the spiritual regeneration ,born-again , being saved, etc, is first in order and importance in the life of the believer, and in the descriptions in scripture. Shortly the 'first resurrection' John speaks of in R 20 is found also in Jn 5;24. Note that Jesus says the believer has eternal life, yet its obvious the living believer is not in the eternal state.
'Resurrection' nearly always means bodily resurrection in scripture , since Im pointing out an exception its up to me to provide a detailed reasoning, hence the long First Resurrection OP.( Which has yet to be taken on line by line point by point). John 6 speaks to bodily resurrection and when it will come.

All must participate in the 'third day cleansing' or 'First Resurrection' . Every believer must have a part here. But not every believer will be raised bodily. By the same token every believer must be raised spiritually.

Part of the idea is to prove that spiritual regeneration ,defined above as 'the first resurrection' is first in order and importance for the believer. We MUST have our part in the (bodily) resurrection of Christ. The glorious and powerful Blood Sacrifice has no value unless Christ is raised from the dead.

Incontrast, not every believer will be ,nor need be, raised bodily.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Clearly bodily resurrection , although it will be granted the overwhelming majority of believers as most of us will die, is not an absolute requirement as is spiritual resurrection. In which through His bodily resurrection we gain every blessing, spiritual and physical;

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


H

 

[Vic C.]

For the purpose of clarification, are we to understand you to be telling us that our regeneration is actually a spiritual resurrection?

 

[Hitch]

For the purpose of clarification, are we to understand you to be telling us that our regeneration is actually a spiritual resurrection?

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God

Eph 2:5-6
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
(KJV)
Eph 2:1
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(KJV)

I Jn 3:14
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
(KJV)

Yes ,unless I grossly misundererstand your question.

 

[Alabaster]

Wow...

 

[Hitch]

Wow...

re·gen·er·ate (r

-j

n

-r

t

)
v. re·gen·er·at·ed, re·gen·er·at·ing, re·gen·er·ates
v.tr. 1. To reform spiritually or morally.


So Allie are you regenerate or unregenerate?

<H2 class=me>un·re·gen·er·ate

  1.
not regenerate; not renewed in heart and mind or reborn in spirit; unrepentant: an unregenerate sinner.

....

 

[Alabaster]

1 Corinthians 15:16 NLT
And if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised.

I am regenerated by Jesus Christ living in me.

I will be resurrected by His promise.


res·ur·rect

   /ˌrɛz

əˈrɛkt/ Show Spelled[rez-uh-rekt] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1. to raise from the dead; bring to life again.

2. to bring back into use, practice, etc.: to resurrect an ancient custom.

–verb (used without object)
3. to rise from the dead.


Hitch, you need to get your terms straight.

 

[Hitch]

1 Corinthians 15:16 NLT
And if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised.

I am regenerated by Jesus Christ living in me.

I will be resurrected by His promise.


res·ur·rect

   /ˌrɛz

əˈrɛkt/ Show Spelled[rez-uh-rekt] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1. to raise from the dead; bring to life again.

2. to bring back into use, practice, etc.: to resurrect an ancient custom.

–verb (used without object)
3. to rise from the dead.


Hitch, you need to get your terms straight.

Originally Posted by Vic C.
For the purpose of clarification, are we to understand you to be telling us that our regeneration is actually a spiritual resurrection?

Do I?

Originally Posted by Vic C.
For the purpose of clarification, are we to understand you to be telling us that our regeneration is actually a spiritual resurrection?

You sure? And you're an editor of what?

But thanx for the quote ,works perfectly;

I am regenerated by Jesus Christ living in me.

I get it ,you blew this one purposefully just to see whether I would give you a hard time right?

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God

Eph 2:5-6
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
(KJV)
Eph 2:1
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(KJV)

I Jn 3:14
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
(KJV)

poor Allie

 

[Vic C.]

Yes ,unless I grossly misundererstand your question.

No, you didn't misunderstand me. It was a simple yes or no question.

Even a Reformer like say, Spurgeon, would say that we (everyone) are all born spiritually dead.

So since you believe our regeneration is a resurrection of our spirit, do you also believe that those regenerated ones who have died will be physically(bodily) resurrected some time in the future?

 

[Hitch]

No, you didn't misunderstand me. It was a simple yes or no question.

Even a Reformer like say, Spurgeon, would say that we (everyone) are all born spiritually dead.

and the CF dotrinal statement;
We believe that all humanity is lost and born with a sinful nature, and can only be saved by a personal faith in the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and not by any human merit or performance.

So since you believe our regeneration is a resurrection of our spirit, do you also believe that those regenerated ones who have died will be physically(bodily) resurrected some time in the future?

As per John 6;39-54.