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Rev 13+17 are Different Beasts

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I keep seeing that people confuse the two beasts of Revelation 13+17.
Lets look at some of the differences between the two beasts.

Rev 13 Beast

Rises up from the sea
7 heads
10 horns
horns have crowns
heads have "the name of blasphemy" on
leopard in appearance
bear feet
lion mouth
dragon gives power to beast
wounded head
worshipped


Rev 17 Beast
beast is in the wilderness
beast if full of "names of blasphemy" (not just on the heads)
scarlet coloured
7 heads
10 horns
was... is not... ascend from the pit... yet is.
wondered at (worship?)
5 heads(kings) have fallen
beast is also the 8th head
10 horns are kings without power (so no crowns)
10 horns give power to the beast
10 horns kill the whore

So while the description of worshipped beast with 7 heads and 10 horns is the same... nothing else is.
These are two very different beasts.
They are found in different locations. Different number of heads (the Rev 17 beast acutely has 8 heads)
Very different descriptions... Rev 17 has differences... colour, rider, amount of blasphemies, 5 dead heads, not one wounded head.

So... would you say they are the same beast(why) or are they different beasts(why).
 
TL;DR. = too long did not read
Skimmed post.

One reason my post was not long was to meet your (Too Long)

When God made seeds, His mind paralleled his word by making seeds. A very good image of words. God just did not inform man till the parable of the sower. Matthew 13

God has hidden things in the OT that are types and shadows of things to come.
Colossians 2:16

Romans 1:20 tells God speaks through what he has created.

The parable of the sower helps us begin to understand the use of parables.

eddif
Nope... you lost me at "His mind paralleled his word by making seeds".
It is not your amount of words that is confusing me... I just don't follow your logic.
How does the mind parallel the action? Surely it would be the other way round.
Seeds doesn't really represent a good image of words in my mind.
I don't think that God has "hidden" many things in the OT... we just don't see them... A world of difference in my opinion.

If it gives you a new way to see the Scripture and God... then good.
But I find many people make Scripture more complicated that was intended... maybe not wrong... but maybe reading more into the Scripture than was intended.
 
How does the mind parallel the action?
Let there be light and light came into being.

Physical light we understand.

Jesus being the light Revelation 21:23 might be a little harder for us to understand.

This is all tied to the beasts.
Symbolism to show physical and spiritual aspects. I know I am on a different wave length, but for_his_glory is asking you to tie some things together.

eddif
 
Let there be light and light came into being.

Physical light we understand.

Jesus being the light Revelation 21:23 might be a little harder for us to understand.

This is all tied to the beasts.
Symbolism to show physical and spiritual aspects. I know I am on a different wave length, but for_his_glory is asking you to tie some things together.

eddif
How can the light in the beginning... without a source... be something we understand?
I think I can wrap my head around the Glory of God being a light source(in a Dyson-sphere) better than a source-less light in nature.
So again you are thinking 180 degrees opposite of mine. I find Revelation 21:23 simpler to understand than Gen 1:3.

And I don't agree with others on this site about the symbology in Revelation. I find that everything is perfectly understandable as a vision. People just keep trying to use old models of Revelation instead of seeing how the book was really meant to be understood. Then everyone gets locked into their models/ways of thinking and just digs in and fights about details that are not really there.
 
How can the light in the beginning... without a source... be something we understand?
I think I can wrap my head around the Glory of God being a light source(in a Dyson-sphere) better than a source-less light in nature.
So again you are thinking 180 degrees opposite of mine. I find Revelation 21:23 simpler to understand than Gen 1:3.

And I don't agree with others on this site about the symbology in Revelation. I find that everything is perfectly understandable as a vision. People just keep trying to use old models of Revelation instead of seeing how the book was really meant to be understood. Then everyone gets locked into their models/ways of thinking and just digs in and fights about details that are not really there.
LOL

Metaphysics:
Meta - greater / beyond
Physical - concrete
One word two parts - the physical
And
the spiritual meaning beyond the physical
Luke 12:31
Something greater than Solomon ( God put wisdom in Solomon).

One person sees the physical differences
Another person sees the spiritual beyond / behind the physical (as a concept that spans contexts).
Third person third person ties it all together, and ties one evil spirit to both beasts.

I am sorry you have to put up with us. We pretty much have times when we struggle to understanding each other.

I am not knocking what you see. We are trying to use the diversity of who we are to learn. One is a hand, one an ear, etc.
The body of Christ is diverse.
1 Corinthians 12:15

eddif
 
LOL

Metaphysics:
Meta - greater / beyond
Physical - concrete
One word two parts - the physical
And
the spiritual meaning beyond the physical
Luke 12:31
Something greater than Solomon ( God put wisdom in Solomon).

One person sees the physical differences
Another person sees the spiritual beyond / behind the physical (as a concept that spans contexts).
Third person third person ties it all together, and ties one evil spirit to both beasts.

I am sorry you have to put up with us. We pretty much have times when we struggle to understanding each other.

I am not knocking what you see. We are trying to use the diversity of who we are to learn. One is a hand, one an ear, etc.
The body of Christ is diverse.
1 Corinthians 12:15

eddif
So why did you laugh at my post?
Just wondering.
What is with the metaphysical explanation? I mean you explaining metaphysics.

You said you understand light without a source but not that the Glory of God could provide light. Could you explain that?
I almost always take the spiritual interpretation over a physical... The crowds around Jesus always understood with physical ears and eyes what Jesus was showing as a spiritual issue.

It is just that I don't hear you, in these posts, completing an idea. Oh and there are three beasts not two. Two in Rev 13 and another different one in Rev 17. If you want to blend the Beasts to make two, then I think you would have to explain the differences.

If one dog has black fur(that's all the info I give you) and another has a bob tail(all the info I give you)... I saw a dog in the front yard with black fur... later I saw a dog in the back yard with a bob tail... would you assume I was talking about the same dog, or possibly a different dog. How much more distinct are the descriptions of the Beast from the sea and the Scarlet Beast?

There is also the principle of getting the physical settled first before moving to the spiritual. If you do it the other way, a pastor has called that "being to Heavenly minded to be any Earthly good".
 
So while the description of worshipped beast with 7 heads and 10 horns is the same... nothing else is.
These are two very different beasts.
They are found in different locations. Different number of heads (the Rev 17 beast acutely has 8 heads)
Very different descriptions... Rev 17 has differences... colour, rider, amount of blasphemies, 5 dead heads, not one wounded head.

So... would you say they are the same beast(why) or are they different beasts(why).
Did John see a beast with 8 heads in Rev17 ? We are going to stick to what John saw in his vision, correct ?

Why does the description of the beast change ? Because we are further along in the vision .

A beast with 7 heads and 10 horns in both chapter Rev13 and Rev17 I believe to be the same beast .
We get the ending of only one beast and the false prophet in Rev19.
Rev19
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 
Did John see a beast with 8 heads in Rev17 ? We are going to stick to what John saw in his vision, correct ?
Actually, yes. Rev 17:11.

Why does the description of the beast change ? Because we are further along in the vision .
The traditional view.

A beast with 7 heads and 10 horns in both chapter Rev13 and Rev17 I believe to be the same beast .
We get the ending of only one beast and the false prophet in Rev19.
Rev19
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
And your point is....
Even if there are only two Beasts... the verses you quote would say there is only one. So even in your own argument you have lost a Beast.
 
So why did you laugh at my post?
I was laughing at all of us (me especially).
A kidney has little concept of how a lung functions. Each of us needs a divine revelation of who we, they, them, I, are in the body of Christ. I am not the authority here. I am a member here. There is authority here though.

eddif
 
i wonder if I can ask a question?

Satan was / is ? Bound for a thousand years.

Is this binding between the two beasts. I do not know, or have an opinion.

eddif
 
i wonder if I can ask a question?

Satan was / is ? Bound for a thousand years.

Is this binding between the two beasts. I do not know, or have an opinion.

eddif
Well as we are not in the Millennium yet... I don't know as the text doesn't say.
Unless you know a reference in Revelation that says any details I overlooked.
 
Actually, yes. Rev 17:11.
What does John see of the beast in Rev17.
Revelation 17:3 "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."
I do not see the word eight .
Rev17
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

He is the eighth but is of the seven . Still only seven .


Even if there are only two Beasts... the verses you quote would say there is only one. So even in your own argument you have lost a Beast.
Should I print up flyers and post them around my neighborhood ?
"Lost one 7 headed beast with lots of profane tattoos"
 
What does John see of the beast in Rev17.
Revelation 17:3 "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."
I do not see the word eight .
Rev17
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

He is the eighth but is of the seven . Still only seven .



Should I print up flyers and post them around my neighborhood ?
"Lost one 7 headed beast with lots of profane tattoos"
Very funny person you are. Not of a lot of interest to me, though.
 
I keep seeing that people confuse the two beasts of Revelation 13+17.
Lets look at some of the differences between the two beasts.
You are correct, they are two different Beasts, and Rev. 12 is a third beast (Satan). The main key in both (all 3) is the crowns and where the crowns are located or not located in Rev. 17.

Rises up from the sea
7 heads
10 horns
Yes, Rev. 13 is a man (A.C.) who causes the 7 Headed Beast that was over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region (MSR) to be revived after being dead (mortal wound) for roughly 1400 years after the church delivered the mortal wound to Rome, who under Constantine went from a Beast who hindered the church to a conveyor belt of the Gospel where the Latin Vulgate, for over a 1000 years, was the mainline or go to bible in the world. The 10 horns represent "Complete Europe Reunited" as 10 means completeness, it could be 20, 25 or 30 nations. So, the 10 crowns represent who the Anti-Christ is king over (E.U.) and notice in Rev. 17:12 they freely give their power unto this one man, meaning he is voted in by Parliament, unlike Rome who conquered all Europe. The 7 heads equals Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece (5 had fallen) Rome (who was) and one who has not yet come but rules a short time(3.5 years) when he (A.C.) comes. The 10 equals complete Europe.

horns have crowns
heads have "the name of blasphemy" on
leopard in appearance
bear feet
lion mouth
I explained the Crowns above. He of course will blaspheme God because he desires to be worshiped as the only god. The Leopard, Bear and Lion is John showing us this is a figurative Beast that stretches from Egypt to Rome, then died off via a Mortal Wound, then is revived only when the Anti-Christ conquers Israel and the MSR once again. After the Lion, notice the mortal wound is mentioned, that is Rome, then the mortal wound is healed, that is the A.C. So, this is jus God showing us Israel's dominators/rulers through the years.

dragon gives power to beast
wounded head
worshipped
Satan gives him his power is of course referring unto the Rev. 12 Beast. He has CROWNS on the 7 Heads, thus he is over every kingdom who has ever had dominion over Israel and the MSR. In Luke 4 remember, Satan told Jesus every kingdom in this world was given unto him and he did as he so pleased with them. So, he has a crown over NYC, LA, Rome, London, Saudi Arabia, Hong Kong etc. etc. etc. We are just being shown 7 that have dominated or "Beasted over" Israel and the MSR.

Rev 17 Beast
beast is in the wilderness
beast if full of "names of blasphemy" (not just on the heads)
scarlet coloured
Not sure the Beast was in the "Wilderness", John was taken into the wilderness, the Beast is arising from the bottomless pit we see later on. The Prophets went to the wilderness to isolate themselves from mankind, to get into the spirit without getting bogged down by fleshly temptations. His color is Scarlet, not Red like the Dragon/Satan's in Rev. 12, notice Demons are assigned a color, but not the man Beast of Rev. 13. The Red and Scarlet colors are meant to show its a "Demonic Being". But its not Satan. It is a demon that Satan placed over Israel and the MSR, that is why he has NO CROWNS, on this earth he is always under Satan in rank.

was... is not... ascend from the pit... yet is.
Exactly, he is from the bottomless pit. He was over Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia (I think he was the Demon who resisted Michael for 21 days in Daniel 10) and Greece. He then was over Rome when John wrote this, I do not know when God sent him to the bottomless pit, it may have been in 70 AD or when Rome fell as a Beast over the MSR. But he is a Demon.

But who is he? Well, it is Apollyon of course.

5 heads(kings) have fallen
beast is also the 8th head
10 horns are kings without power (so no crowns)
10 horns give power to the beast
10 horns kill the whore
The 5 who were fallen we called Kings who fell in order to show the last beast in this line is a man. He is the 7th Head of Rev. 12 and Rev. 17 under Satan and Apollyon. In Rev. 13 that is why the crowns are on the 10 horns, its speaking about the Little Horn/Anti-Christs kingdom. Thus in Rev. 17 the 7th King is shown in the context of 7 Mountains who arise and 7 Kings who fall, thus only one of them, the Anti-Christ both ARISES & FALLS. He is the only Beast who never passes his kingdom on to another. Thus he is the only Beast who remains a ONE MAN for the Beasts full rule. In Dan. 7:17 four kings arose as Beasts, but they all passed their rule on unto others. This last Beast doesn't, hence he has the number 666 (Mankind).

The E.U. (10) will worship the beast, so they will thus make an edict that says only Beast worship is allowed, thus they kill off the Harlot (All False Religion's save Beast worship) by forbidding Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, etc. etc. They also forbid Christianity which of course is not a False Religion,(SMILE) that's where the Martyrs come in via the 5th Seal.

The reason Apollyon is the 8th King but not an 8th head (there is no 8th head ever mentioned). He is OF THE 7, but is an 8th means he was of Egypt (tried to kill Israel via the Pharaoh at the Red Sea) via Assyria (toted off most of the 10 tribes), via Babylon (took Israel into bondage) via Persia (ruled over Israel, but God moved Cyrus' heart to be merciful) via Greece (Antiochus tried to wipe out the Jews, he killed 60,000 to 90,000 people) and also via Rome (they sacked Israel and destroyed the Temple and the Diaspora happened). Lastly, of course, Apollyon is freed at the first woe and is placed over the Anti-Christ, he again tries to wipe out Israel, but he again will fail. Thus he is OF THE SEVEN, but is an 8th [ King of the Bottomless Pit]. That is why he has NO CROWNS on anything on this earth, BUT........He has a crown (is an 8th king) via his bottomless pit kingdom. God loves His riddles.

The first woe in Rev. 9 tells us Apollyon is the king of the bottomless pit, and Rev. 11 tells us he arises and kills the Two-witnesses. Rev. 17 thus gives his story in full detail, he was over all of the "Gov. Beasts" who ruled over Israel and the MSR, and he was always intertwined with False Religion (The Harlot) thus the Harlot rode the back of the Gov. Beasts of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon (where she flourished), Persia, Greece and Rome. The 10 however will kill her off, there will be no room in their world for any worshiping besides Beast Worship or the worship of mankind as their own gods, with the Anti-Christ being their chosen ULTIMATE GOD !!

Good observation on seeing they are different Beasts. Of course I have been called unto Prophecy nigh 40 years now, so I am a little ahead of the game (riddles) on this, but you have a sharp eye it seems spiritually speaking.
 
Revelation chapter 17, and 13 are one world political system. In chapter 17, the perdition of verse 11 is satan. Read second thessalonians chapter 2, the son of perdition is satan !. He's coming at the 6th trump in his role as antichrist. Verse 12, ten kings, are the fallen angels of revelation chapter 12, they come with satan to earth. Verse 15, waters are people, nations. The deadly wound is verse 11, the son of perdition as antichrist, heals deadly wound, it's a financial crisis or military confrontation. Mystery Babylon is confusion. It's one world political system that receives deadly wound at the 6th trump. Revelation chapter 13. The beast is one world political system. It will receive deadly wound near future. Satan as antichrist will heal deadly wound by establishing world peace. Antichrist will look like Jesus and say he's Messiah. Antichrist Capitol is Jerusalem. It turns one world religious system when antichrist arrives 6th trump. Majority of people will worship antichrist because their biblically illiterate. Gods Elect will escape antichrist lies and deception. Election have gospel armory on, they have knowledge and wisdom of God's word, read ephesians chapter 6. The one world political system turns religious when antichrist arrives 6th trump, its 5 month period, revelation chapter 9:5.
Consequences of worshiping antichrist is spot in hell. Study the bible, or find teacher/pastor who can teach sound doctrine.
 
Revelation chapter 17, and 13 are one world political system. In chapter 17, the perdition of verse 11 is satan. Read second thessalonians chapter 2, the son of perdition is satan !
Perdition means eternal punishment, this anyone who goes to hell is a son of perdition. Judas was a son of perdition, as was anyone who is destined fir hellfire.

Rev. 12, 13 and 17 are only about the Mediterranean Sea Region (MSR), lets see, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome all ruled over the MSR and Israel, not the whole world, it means the whole earth being spoken of. What is being spoken about? The MSR only, as the other 6 Beasts show. The 1/3 that gets hit by the Rev 8 asteroid, seems to be the New World. Isn't it odd I looked up the landmass size of the Two-America (counting Central America) and it is almost exactly 1/3 of the landmass on earth. Then I looked at the Pacific Ocean, and that has 1/3 of all the waters on the earth. I went further, I found out Oceans can not even cross over into other oceans because of the PHD/Weight of each ocean is different and they wont mix, so Oceans are really oceans, not just men naming them. So, this asteroid named Apophis, when it hits, (it will IMHO) it would hit just off the coast of California and Mexico, and thus the New World is the 1/3 IMHO. Which is just logical, if Jesus is going to rule from the Old World (Jerusalem) for 1000 years why would God burn up any of the Old World?

The Rev. 17 Scarlet Colored Beast is nod the Red Dragon, HENCE the different name. Good grief brother, come on. It is Apollyon, Rev. 9 tells us who arises from the pit, Apollyon, Satan was never in the pit, he's the god of this world currently.

He's coming at the 6th trump in his role as antichrist.
The Anti-Chr9st is a MAN. Read Dan. 7:11 his BODY is DESTROYED and he is cast into hell with the False Prophet when Jesus returns, but Satan is only locked in the bottomless pit. Then after the 1000 years the bible (not me) says he is then cast into hell where the False Prophet and Beast ARE [ALREADY AT].

Rev. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, WHERE the BEAST and the false prophet ARE, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
How can you not get this?

Satan is cast down at the First Trump (1260) which is God's Wrath AND then at that very moment God allows the Anti-Christ to go forth conquering.

Verse 12, ten kings, are the fallen angels of revelation chapter 12
Yea, I need to stop answering this here. The 10 kings are the E.U. you are are over the place, but not correct on anything.
 
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