Revelation Chapter 17

John is once more caught up in the Spirit as this angel shows him the future judgment of Mystery Babylon who is the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. Mystery Babylon is described first as a great whore that sits on many waters. She is a mystery to John when the vision was given to him, but now made very clear since the sixteenth century Reformation.

The woman is arrayed in purple and scarlet colors. These are the main colors of the revived Roman Empire. The woman is the city of Rome known as Vatican City and the scarlet beast is the spiritual and worldly empire it controls being that of the Roman Catholic Church and all its believers through out the nations.

Continue reading...

 

[Episcopius]

Yes - thx Stormcrow

I never saw before anything about DOMITIUS and DOMITIAN - that domitius was part of Nero’s name

Thats a big deal

 

[Stormcrow]

You're welcome! Glad to be of service!

 

[Stormcrow]

I would also like to add that there is so much more to discuss in this book beyond Revelation 17. I'll tease you with this one tidbit.

Revelation 16:17–19 (NASB95)

17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl upon the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple from the throne, saying, “It is done.” 18 And there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder; and there was a great earthquake, such as there had not been since man came to be upon the earth, so great an earthquake was it, and so mighty. 19 The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of His fierce wrath.

See that word "earthquake"? It comes from the Greek word "seismos':

4578. σεισμός seismos; from 4579; a commotion, shaking:—earthquake(10), earthquakes(3), storm(1).
Thomas, Robert L.: New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek dictionaries : updated edition.

It also means "commotion". When we look at synonyms for commotion, we get these:

• stir,
• storm,
• to-do,
• tumult,
• turmoil,
• uproar,

With related words being

• disorder,
• unrest,
• upheaval

Now please understand this: there has never been a geological phenomenon - like an earthquake - that has ever split Jerusalem in three parts. There was, however, a great upheaval that did just that: a civil war within the walls of Jerusalem that divided the city among three warring factions of rebel leaders who were, as Josephus recounts, responsible for more death in the city than were the Romans (who were besieging the city outside its walls).

4. (21) And now there were three treacherous factions in the city, the one parted from the other. Eleazar and his party, that kept the sacred firstfruits, came against John in their cups. Those that were with John plundered the populace, and went out with zeal against Simon. This Simon had his supply of provisions from the city, in oppositions to the seditious. (22) When, therefore, John was assaulted on both sides, he made his men turn about, throwing his darts upon those citizens that came up against him, from the cloisters he had in his possession, while he opposed those that attacked him from the temple by his engines of war; (23) and if at any time he was freed from those that were above him, which happened frequently, from their being drunk and tired, he sallied out with a great number upon Simon and his party; (24) and this he did always in such parts of the city as he could come at, till he set on fire those houses that were full of corn, and of all other provisions. The same thing was done by Simon, when, upon the other’s retreat, he attacked the city also; as if they had, on purpose, done it to serve the Romans, by destroying what the city had laid up against the siege, and by thus cutting off the nerves of their own power. (25) Accordingly, it so came to pass, that all the places that were about the temple were burnt down, and were become an intermediate desert space, ready for fighting on both sides, and that almost all the corn was burnt, which would have been sufficient for a siege of many years. (26) So they were taken by the means of the famine, which it was impossible they should have been, unless they had thus prepared the way for it by this procedure.

Josephus, Flavius ; Whiston, William: The works of Josephus: complete and unabridged. Peabody : Hendrickson, 1987

Hearing of the famine within the city, Josephus recounts that Titus, the Roman general, allowed pilgrims coming to Jerusalem for the Passover in 70 AD, into the city, then shut the gates behind them, trapping as many as three million (according to Josephus) inside Jerusalem's walls with no food to eat.

And then Josephus tells us of Mary...(Next post)

 

[Stormcrow]

Mary's story...

4. (201) There was a certain woman that dwelt beyond Jordan, her name was Mary; her father was Eleazar, of the village Bethezub, which signifies the House of Hyssop. She was eminent for her family and her wealth, and had fled away to Jerusalem with the rest of the multitude, and was with them besieged therein at this time. (202) The other effects of this woman had been already seized upon; such I mean as she had brought with her out of Perea, and removed to the city. What she had treasured up besides, as also what food she had contrived to save, had been also carried off by the rapacious guards, who came every day running into her house for that purpose. (203) This put the poor woman into a very great passion, and by the frequent reproaches and imprecations she cast at these rapacious villains, she had provoked them to anger against her; (204) but none of them, either out of the indignation she had raised against herself, or out of the commiseration of her case, would take away her life; and if she found any food, she perceived her labors were for others, and not for herself; and it was now become impossible for her anyway to find anymore food, while the famine pierced through her very bowels and marrow, when also her passion was fired to a degree beyond the famine itself; nor did she consult with anything but with her passion and the necessity she was in. She then attempted a most unnatural thing; (205) and snatching up her son, who was a child sucking at her breast, she said, “O, thou miserable infant! For whom shall I preserve thee in this war, this famine, and this sedition? (206) As to the war with the Romans, if they preserve our lives, we must be slaves! This famine also will destroy us, even before that slavery comes upon us:—yet are these seditious rogues more terrible than both the other. (207) Come on; be thou my food, and be thou a fury to these seditious varlets and a byword to the world, which is all that is now wanting to complete the calamities of us Jews.” (208) As soon as she had said this she slew her son; and then roasted him, and ate the one half of him, and kept the other half by her concealed. (209) Upon this the seditous came in presently, and smelling the horrid scent of this food, they threatened her, that they would cut her throat immediately if she did not show them what food she had gotten ready. She replied, that she had saved a very fine portion of it for them; and withal uncovered what was left of her son. (210) Hereupon they were seized with a horror and amazement of mind, and stood astonished at the sight; when she said to them, “This is my own son; and what hath been done was mine own doing! Come, eat of this food; for I have eaten of it myself! (211) Do not you pretend to be either more tender than a woman, or more compassionate than a mother; but if you be so scrupulous and do abominate this my sacrifice, as I have eaten the one half, let the rest be reserved for me also.” (212) After which, those men went out trembling, being never so much affrighted at anything as they were at this, and with some difficulty they left the rest of that meat to the mother. Upon which the whole city was full of this horrid action immediately; and while every body laid his miserable case before their own eyes, they trembled, as if this unheard-of action had been by themselves. (213) So those that were thus distressed by the famine were very desirous to die; and those already dead were esteemed happy, because they had not lived long enough either to hear or to see such miseries.

Josephus, Flavius ; Whiston, William: The works of Josephus: complete and unabridged. Peabody : Hendrickson, 1987

This is why, among other reasons, Jesus told His disciples to flee the city when they saw Rome's legions, and not to return to it. And it's also why He told the weeping women this:

Luke 23:27–30 (NKJV)

27 And a great multitude of the people followed Him, and women who also mourned and lamented Him. 28 But Jesus, turning to them, said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!’ 30 Then they will begin ‘to say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!” ’

And, in closing, we see the fulfillment of verse 30 here:

Revelation 6:15–17 (NKJV)

15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

See how it all comes full circle? When you see Revelation in light of these two tribulations - the persecution of the saints and the subsequent judgment of Jerusalem for it - then every passage in the Bible harmonizes perfectly with the others and with the historical accounts.

The point of all of this is to demistify the Book of Revelation for you, so that even the symbolic parts become understandable. Do i understand it all yet? No. But I'm still working on it. The answers for all of it lie in the rest of the pages of the Bible and ancient Jewish history, life, and culture.

Hope this helps.

 

[for_his_glory]

Revelation wasn't written after 70AD. In fact, it could not have been written later than June of 68AD, when Nero died. The case for this is in the identity of the "7 kings":

Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.
REV 17-9-10

The mountain upon which the woman (Israel's 1st century apostate priesthood) sits is Rome. By the middle of the 1st century, Rome was choosing Jerusalem's high priests. Rome occupied and controlled virtually all aspects of Judea's civil and religious life. Those seven "mountains" in Rome are:

• Aventine
• Caelian
• Capitoline
• Esquiline
• Palatine
• Quirinal
• Viminal

The five Roman kings that had fallen are Julius, Augustus Tiberius, Caligula, and Claudius. The sixth that was living at the time of the writing of Revelation was Nero: the man whose number is also 666. Nero reigned 14 years, from 54 to 68 AD. His immediate successor, the 7th king, is Galba, who reigned only 7 months before being killed in a coup by Otho. Galba's reign was short, just as John wrote.

The Jewish rebellion against Rome and the subsequent war it caused began under Nero's reign. Nero was also the first Roman emperor to persecute Christians, and it was Nero who beheaded Paul and had Peter crucified upside down.

The case for Rome in Revelation 17 is also made in Daniel 2:

And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others...And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. DAN 2:40,44

The fourth kingdom Daniel saw can be none other than Rome, during which time Christ was born, died, rose and ascended, establishing His eternal kingdom.

Robert Young, translator and author of the literal translation of the Bible that bears his name, said this about the dating of Revelation:

“It was written in Patmos about A.D. 68, whither John had been banished by Domitius Nero, as stated in the title of the Syriac version of the book; and with this concurs the express statement of Irenaeus in A.D. 175, who says it happened in the reign of Domitianou – i.e., Domitius (Nero). Sulpicius, Orosius, etc., stupidly mistaking Dimitianou for Domitianikos, supposed Irenaeus to refer to Domitian, A.D. 95, and most succeeding writers have fallen into the same blunder. The internal testimony is wholly in favor of the early date.” Robert Young, Commentary on Revelation.

Nero's birth name was, in fact, Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus. John was exiled by an emperor named Domitius (54-68 AD), not Domitian (81-96 AD).

Revelation is much more fascinating when you understand that John's vision of the utter destruction of Jerusalem and the players involved was written at least 2 years before the events happened. That is why it's so important to us today, not because it hasn't been fulfilled, but because it has and it all happened just as the risen Lord said it would.

Apologies for the length of this post, but these are issues than cannot be answered or addressed in Twitter form.

In what you write it leads me to see that you are a Preterist. Am I right about that as it then would make more sense of how you see that of Revelation.

Here is some history for you to consider.

John the Apostle was born around 6 AD Bethsaida, Galilee, providence of the Roman Empire and died around the age of 100 in Ephesus, a providence of the Roman Empire. The first Christian community in Ephesus was established by John around 64AD after Paul was decapitated outside the city wall of Rome, John again became the leader of the Ephesians church community four years before Nero died.

By the dates of these to Emperors below Nero was the older sibling and after he died Titus Flavius Domitianus began to reign in his place.

Roman Emperor Titus Flavius Domitianus who reigned from 81AD - 96AD was the Emperor who exciled the Apostle John to the isle of Patmos around 95AD. While on the isle of Patmos John wrote letters to the seven churches in Asia Minor as these compiled letters make up the book of Revelation.

By the dates below we can clearly see that it was not Nero that exciled John to the isle of Patmos nor was the Roman Emperior at that time.

Domitian, Latin in full Caesar Domitianus Augustus, original name (until ad 81) Titus Flavius Domitianus, (born Oct. 24, ad 51—died Sept. 18, ad 96, Rome [Italy]), Roman emperor (ad 81–96), known chiefly for the reign of terror under which prominent members of the Senate lived during his last years.


Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (/ˈnɪəroʊ/ NEER-oh; born Lucius Dimities Ahenobarbus; 15 December AD 37 – 9 June AD 68), was the fifth Roman emperor and final emperor of the Julio-Claudian dynasty, reigning from AD 54 until his death in AD 68. He was adopted by the Roman emperor Claudius at the age of 13 and succeeded him on the throne. Nero was popular with the members of his Praetorian Guard and lower-class commoners in Rome and its provinces. He committed suicide around the at age 30.

It was not Nero who received a deadly wound as he commited suicide. It was the Old Roman Empire that received what seemed to be a deadly wound back in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the Roman government and established a secular one. That caused them to scatter into the other ten nations (ten horns). The wound was healed in 1929 by Mussolini.

Rev 13; Rev 17:8 What was, was Roman rule from 538 AD with Emperor Justinian’s decree and under the military protection of Belisarius until the deadly wound, was not, came in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the Roman government and established a secular one. This was the time when Rome persecuted the Christians and killed them which were approximately 500 million people slain for the cause of their faith in Jesus. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to the Pope and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

FUTURISM

The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism

Click on The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism - Customer Portal

Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) was a Jesuit doctor of theology, born in Spain, who began writing a lengthy (500 page) commentary in 1585 on the book of Revelation (Apocalypse) titled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij, and published it about the year 1590. He died in 1591 at the age of fifty-four, so he was not able to expand on his work or write any other commentaries on Revelation. In order to remove the Catholic Church from consideration as the antichrist power, Ribera proposed that the first few chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest he limited to a yet future period of 3 1/2 literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy. Then, he proposed, the antichrist, a single individual, would:
Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God.
Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.
Abolish the Christian religion.
Deny Jesus Christ.
Be received by the Jews.
Pretend to be God.
Kill the two witnesses of God.
Conquer the world.

So, according to Ribera, the 1260 days and 42 months and 3 1/2 times of prophecy were not 1260 years, but a literal 3 1/2 years, and therefore none of the book of Revelation had any application to the middle ages or the papacy, but to the future, to a period immediately prior to the second coming, hence the name Futurism. Ribera was one of many Jesuit apologist just like Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, Manuel De Lacunza to name a few who wrote books trying to remove the Roman Catholic Church from consideration as the antichrist power.

 

[for_his_glory]

Another interesting point to note: In Revelation 7, John writes of the 144,000 elect from the 12 tribes of Israel sealed for service to Christ's kingdom during the Sanhedrin's persecution of the saints; a persecution in which Saul/Paul enthusiastically undertook.

Revelation 7:4–8 (NKJV)
4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

The lineages of all these tribes' family lines were kept in the temple complex. They were destroyed with the temple. After 70AD, there were no more "tribes" of Israel, only the dead, the captive, and the survivors: those who were saved from the catastrophe by heeding Christ's words.

When studying the history of the twelve tribes of Israel being the sons of Jacob/Israel we find from 1047 B.C. and 931 B.C. the twelve tribes were under the leadership of three Kings, Saul, David and Solomon. Near the end of Solomon's reign he fell into idolatry and God spoke of tearing apart the Kingdom as judgment for these sins, 1 Kings 11:10-12.

After Solomon's death his son Rehoboam became King and those ten Northern tribes (Israel/Ephraim) rebelled against King Rehoboam and followed after Jeroboam up North causing a division of the north and south Kingdom. Only the tribe of Judah (Judah) and the tribe of Benjamin (Judah) stayed Loyal to King Rehoboam in the southern Kingdom for they kept Gods commandments as they knew David was the lineage of the promised Messiah as it was prophesied of the prophets of God. For almost two centuries the two Kingdoms where divided, but a remnant of the ten tribes soon came back to Judah after following Jeroboam as he turned the northern Kingdom into idol worshipers.

This is the importance of the 144,000 of the house of Israel and their generations unto the end of days. There were those of the old covenant that were faithful to God in keeping all his commandments and repented of their idol worshiping. Their generations who have also come back to Gods grace that are still alive during the seven trumpet sounds will continue to preach to the Jews as it was with the twelve disciples in Matthew 10:6. The generations of the 144,000 that are still alive have the seal of God on them which are the seven Spirits of God as they will have to endure much persecution until the end of days before the return of Jesus.

(Seven Spirits of God are found in Isaiah 11:2 and mentioned in Rev 1:4.
Spirit of the Lord, wisdom, understanding, counsel, power, knowledge and fear/respect of the Lord.)


​

 

[for_his_glory]

More internal evidence of the early dating of Revelation comes in John's letters themselves.
Revelation 3:17–18 (NKJV)
17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

Laodicea was built on a trade route that enabled it to become immensely wealthy through the sale of its fine black wool. It was destroyed by an earthquake in 60 AD (it was built on a fault line, which gave it its famous hot springs), and the city leaders declined Roman financial assistance in rebuilding it.

"One of the famous cities of Asia, Laodicea, was that same year overthrown by an earthquake, and, without any relief from us, recovered itself by its own resources." Tacitus, Annals, 14.27

Cornelius Tacitus, The Annals, BOOK XIV, chapter 27

www.perseus.tufts.edu

Tacitus doesn't say how long this recovery took, but its entirely reasonable to assume, given its wealth and prominence in the Roman Empire, that it would've taken no more than a couple of years to fully rebuild. In order for John's letter to reference their wealth to the point of "needing nothing", the letter had to have been written between 60 AD and 68 AD, between the time of the quake and the death of Nero.

Is Revelation all starting to make more sense now?

Rev 1 is the prologue and John greeting the seven churches in Asia Minor while being exiled on the isle of Patmos given them messages in letters sent to them by that the angel Christ sent to him to write to the seven churches, which represent all the body of Christ even today with Christ being the head of the body, Colossians 1:18.

Rev 2-3 are instructions to the seven churches in Asia Minor in whom John wrote letters to them This particular church in Laodicea is given a warning that they are neither hot nor cold for the Lord. They virtually have no works that would bring honor and Glory to the Lord as they find themselves materially rich but have lost the richest thing they ever had which is Gods Spirit. Their love of the material possessions has closed that door of God and is causing them to lose the kingdom of God forever if they do not repent of their selfishness.

They do not even realize how unhappy their spirit is as they are blinded by their gain and have not Gods righteousness found in them anymore. They have shamed themselves before the Lord and God advises them to repent and be made pure again before him so that Gods righteousness can be found in them and once again have union with God.

Gods rebuke and chastisements are from his love he has for everyone and as long as Jesus is standing at the door knocking, everyone has a chance to repent and be apart of Gods kingdom. He that overcomes are in Christ and Christ in them and will have eternal life with the Father in his kingdom that is waiting to be ushered down called the New Jerusalem.

The messages given to all seven Churches are messages to all of us. We as one body in Christ are Gods messengers to the world as we go about preaching Gods salvation to all who will have an ear to hear. The world (Satan) wants to devour that which is Gods here on earth and if we are not in Gods perfect will even the very elect of God can be deceived.​

 

[for_his_glory]

Yet more evidence that John is writing about 1st century Jerusalem.

So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. REV 17:3

As noted in an earlier post, the scarlet beast is Rome (I'll get to the woman in another post). It's seven heads are the seven hills in Rome and seven kings or "Caesars" (John makes this clear in verses 9-10. The most perplexing part to me for a long time was the issue of the 10 horns. John explains those in verse 12:

“The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast." REV 17:12-13.

Then it hit me: The Decapolis: 10 city-states that were semi-autonomous at the time of the Jewish War with Rome.

Bible Map: Decapolis

bibleatlas.org

The link above describes these cities as "...independent of the local tetrarchy, and answerable directly to the governor of Syria. They enjoyed the rights of association and asylum; they struck their own coinage, paid imperial taxes and were liable to military service (Ant., XIV, iv, 4; BJ, I, vii, 7; II, xviii, 3; III, ix, 7; Vita, 65, 74)."

The Lexham Bible Dictionary notes this about the Decapolis:

The cities of the Decapolis, like many cities in the region, were caught up in the Judaean War of AD 66–70. According to Josephus (Life, 65. 341–42, 410), a group of leaders complained to the Roman general Vespasian about Judaean attacks against their cities. During this period, sporadic massacres were carried out against local Judaean populations. Josephus records Judaeans being slaughtered in Scythopolis, Pella, Gadara, and Hippos. In the city of Gerasa, however, Judaeans were exiled rather than killed. During the Judaean War, Scythopolis—the one city west of the Jordan River—served as a base for the Roman army under Vespasian.

Later tradition suggests that one of the cities of the Decapolis served as a safe haven for Christians fleeing from the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. According to Eusebius, the Christians fled Jerusalem and made their way to Pella (Ecclesiastical History, 3.5.3–4). While archaeological evidence is unable to confirm this relocation, Pella’s location near Galilee and the possibility that many Jerusalem believers were Judaean Christians from Galilee lends some creditability to the tradition. Pella became an important Christian center in the Byzantine period.

MAY, DAVID M.: Decapolis, BARRY, J. D. ; BOMAR, D. ; BROWN, D. R. ; KLIPPENSTEIN, R. ; MANGUM, D. ; SINCLAIR WOLCOTT, C. ; WENTZ, L. ; RITZEMA, E. ; ET AL. (eds.). The Lexham Bible Dictionary.

After the Jewish War with Rome, the Decapolis was incorporated into the provinces of Syria and Arabian Petraea under Roman emperor Trajan, thus losing their autonomy, just as John had written.

I hope this is taking some of the mystery out of Revelation for you. It is a book written to be understood and heeded by those living at the time of these events. We are beneficiaries of chapter 21. That's where our story is.

Rev 17:1-18
John is once more caught up in the Spirit as this angel shows him the future judgment of Mystery Babylon who is the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. Mystery Babylon is described first as a great whore that sits on many waters. She is a mystery to John when the vision was given to him, but now made very clear since the sixteenth century Reformation.

The woman is arrayed in purple and scarlet colors. These are the main colors of the Roman Catholic Church. The woman is the city of Rome known as Vatican City and the scarlet beast is the spiritual and worldly empire it controls being that of the Roman Catholic Church and all its believers through out the nations.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire: (Iraq), Medo - Persian Empire: (Iran), Grecian Empire: (Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt), Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The woman was drunk with power the beast (Satan) gave her as she made martyrs of the saints and prophets of God as their blood was shed for their faith in Christ Jesus as they refused to denounce Christ in order to take the mark of this beast and bow down to this one world political, economic, educational and religious system.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yet more evidence that John is writing about 1st century Jerusalem.

So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. REV 17:3

As noted in an earlier post, the scarlet beast is Rome (I'll get to the woman in another post). It's seven heads are the seven hills in Rome and seven kings or "Caesars" (John makes this clear in verses 9-10. The most perplexing part to me for a long time was the issue of the 10 horns. John explains those in verse 12:

“The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast." REV 17:12-13.

Then it hit me: The Decapolis: 10 city-states that were semi-autonomous at the time of the Jewish War with Rome.

Bible Map: Decapolis

bibleatlas.org

The link above describes these cities as "...independent of the local tetrarchy, and answerable directly to the governor of Syria. They enjoyed the rights of association and asylum; they struck their own coinage, paid imperial taxes and were liable to military service (Ant., XIV, iv, 4; BJ, I, vii, 7; II, xviii, 3; III, ix, 7; Vita, 65, 74)."

The Lexham Bible Dictionary notes this about the Decapolis:

The cities of the Decapolis, like many cities in the region, were caught up in the Judaean War of AD 66–70. According to Josephus (Life, 65. 341–42, 410), a group of leaders complained to the Roman general Vespasian about Judaean attacks against their cities. During this period, sporadic massacres were carried out against local Judaean populations. Josephus records Judaeans being slaughtered in Scythopolis, Pella, Gadara, and Hippos. In the city of Gerasa, however, Judaeans were exiled rather than killed. During the Judaean War, Scythopolis—the one city west of the Jordan River—served as a base for the Roman army under Vespasian.

Later tradition suggests that one of the cities of the Decapolis served as a safe haven for Christians fleeing from the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. According to Eusebius, the Christians fled Jerusalem and made their way to Pella (Ecclesiastical History, 3.5.3–4). While archaeological evidence is unable to confirm this relocation, Pella’s location near Galilee and the possibility that many Jerusalem believers were Judaean Christians from Galilee lends some creditability to the tradition. Pella became an important Christian center in the Byzantine period.

MAY, DAVID M.: Decapolis, BARRY, J. D. ; BOMAR, D. ; BROWN, D. R. ; KLIPPENSTEIN, R. ; MANGUM, D. ; SINCLAIR WOLCOTT, C. ; WENTZ, L. ; RITZEMA, E. ; ET AL. (eds.). The Lexham Bible Dictionary.

After the Jewish War with Rome, the Decapolis was incorporated into the provinces of Syria and Arabian Petraea under Roman emperor Trajan, thus losing their autonomy, just as John had written.

I hope this is taking some of the mystery out of Revelation for you. It is a book written to be understood and heeded by those living at the time of these events. We are beneficiaries of chapter 21. That's where our story is.

Rev 17:1-18
John is once more caught up in the Spirit as this angel shows him the future judgment of Mystery Babylon who is the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. Mystery Babylon is described first as a great whore that sits on many waters. She is a mystery to John when the vision was given to him, but now made very clear since the sixteenth century Reformation.

The woman is arrayed in purple and scarlet colors. These are the main colors of the Roman Catholic Church. The woman is the city of Rome known as Vatican City and the scarlet beast is the spiritual and worldly empire it controls being that of the Roman Catholic Church and all its believers through out the nations.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire: (Iraq), Medo - Persian Empire: (Iran), Grecian Empire: (Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt), Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The woman was drunk with power the beast (Satan) gave her as she made martyrs of the saints and prophets of God as their blood was shed for their faith in Christ Jesus as they refused to denounce Christ in order to take the mark of this beast and bow down to this one world political, economic, educational and religious system.

 

[for_his_glory]

Mary's story...

4. (201) There was a certain woman that dwelt beyond Jordan, her name was Mary; her father was Eleazar, of the village Bethezub, which signifies the House of Hyssop. She was eminent for her family and her wealth, and had fled away to Jerusalem with the rest of the multitude, and was with them besieged therein at this time. (202) The other effects of this woman had been already seized upon; such I mean as she had brought with her out of Perea, and removed to the city. What she had treasured up besides, as also what food she had contrived to save, had been also carried off by the rapacious guards, who came every day running into her house for that purpose. (203) This put the poor woman into a very great passion, and by the frequent reproaches and imprecations she cast at these rapacious villains, she had provoked them to anger against her; (204) but none of them, either out of the indignation she had raised against herself, or out of the commiseration of her case, would take away her life; and if she found any food, she perceived her labors were for others, and not for herself; and it was now become impossible for her anyway to find anymore food, while the famine pierced through her very bowels and marrow, when also her passion was fired to a degree beyond the famine itself; nor did she consult with anything but with her passion and the necessity she was in. She then attempted a most unnatural thing; (205) and snatching up her son, who was a child sucking at her breast, she said, “O, thou miserable infant! For whom shall I preserve thee in this war, this famine, and this sedition? (206) As to the war with the Romans, if they preserve our lives, we must be slaves! This famine also will destroy us, even before that slavery comes upon us:—yet are these seditious rogues more terrible than both the other. (207) Come on; be thou my food, and be thou a fury to these seditious varlets and a byword to the world, which is all that is now wanting to complete the calamities of us Jews.” (208) As soon as she had said this she slew her son; and then roasted him, and ate the one half of him, and kept the other half by her concealed. (209) Upon this the seditous came in presently, and smelling the horrid scent of this food, they threatened her, that they would cut her throat immediately if she did not show them what food she had gotten ready. She replied, that she had saved a very fine portion of it for them; and withal uncovered what was left of her son. (210) Hereupon they were seized with a horror and amazement of mind, and stood astonished at the sight; when she said to them, “This is my own son; and what hath been done was mine own doing! Come, eat of this food; for I have eaten of it myself! (211) Do not you pretend to be either more tender than a woman, or more compassionate than a mother; but if you be so scrupulous and do abominate this my sacrifice, as I have eaten the one half, let the rest be reserved for me also.” (212) After which, those men went out trembling, being never so much affrighted at anything as they were at this, and with some difficulty they left the rest of that meat to the mother. Upon which the whole city was full of this horrid action immediately; and while every body laid his miserable case before their own eyes, they trembled, as if this unheard-of action had been by themselves. (213) So those that were thus distressed by the famine were very desirous to die; and those already dead were esteemed happy, because they had not lived long enough either to hear or to see such miseries.

Josephus, Flavius ; Whiston, William: The works of Josephus: complete and unabridged. Peabody : Hendrickson, 1987

This is why, among other reasons, Jesus told His disciples to flee the city when they saw Rome's legions, and not to return to it. And it's also why He told the weeping women this:

Luke 23:27–30 (NKJV)

27 And a great multitude of the people followed Him, and women who also mourned and lamented Him. 28 But Jesus, turning to them, said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!’ 30 Then they will begin ‘to say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!” ’

And, in closing, we see the fulfillment of verse 30 here:

Revelation 6:15–17 (NKJV)

15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

See how it all comes full circle? When you see Revelation in light of these two tribulations - the persecution of the saints and the subsequent judgment of Jerusalem for it - then every passage in the Bible harmonizes perfectly with the others and with the historical accounts.

The point of all of this is to demistify the Book of Revelation for you, so that even the symbolic parts become understandable. Do i understand it all yet? No. But I'm still working on it. The answers for all of it lie in the rest of the pages of the Bible and ancient Jewish history, life, and culture.

Hope this helps.

You study Revelation from a Preterist point of view thinking all these things in Revelation has already come to pass in 70AD. How could this be true since It's possible that we might be within the sixth seal right now, Rev 6:12, as the first of the seven trumpets has not sounded yet, nor has Jesus returned or the final judgement of God called the Great White Throne judgement or the ushering down of the New Jerusalem. Anyone can pick out bits and pieces and come up with their own theories, by it takes the full of Revelation to see the beginning to the end.

All you seem to present are the copy and pastings from all these websites where you present their theories instead of studying the full context of Revelation.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

We are seeing all of this even happening in our generation and will wax worse in all generations until Christ returns.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Immediately after the tribulation is not speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, even though it was a great time of tribulation for the Jews as during its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times all before 70AD. Jesus is speaking of future events that the disciples would start seeing in their lifetime, but yet will increase in every generation.

Remember that the disciples asked Jesus three questions in Matthew 24:3, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Jesus gave them a summary of all the events that would take place until the day of His return and the end of this world. John, by the angel Jesus sent to him to write all these visions down he received gives full detail of all that Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24.

So, we can see that not every event ended in 70AD especially since we are still here as Christ has not returned yet.

I do respect that of what you believe, but can not agree with what you believe, but yet our common ground is our love for the Lord.

 

[Stormcrow]

In what you write it leads me to see that you are a Preterist. Am I right about that as it then would make more sense of how you see that of Revelation.

I don't use labels. They obfuscate rather than enlighten. The only thing that should matter to anyone here is whether what we believe is true or not.

By the dates of these to Emperors below Nero was the older sibling and after he died Titus Flavius Domitianus began to reign in his place.

Nero was not related at all to Domitian and Nero was succeeded immediately by Galba, who reigned for 7 months, replaced by Otho, who reigned for 3 months, then Vitellius, who reigned for 8 months who was then succeeded by Vespasian in a series of rapid imperial successions known as the "Year of the Four Emperors". This was a time, between 68 and 69 AD that saw the Roman Empire almost torn apart by this civil war. This is the reference made to the "beast whose mortal wound was healed" in Revelation 13:3. It has nothing to do with Mussolini.

Furthermore, Nero is the man whose number totaled 666 and 616 in some manuscripts: the only man of John's time whose name could. In Hebrew, letters of the alphabet also serve as numbers. Nero Caesar's name in Hebrew is spelled "rsQ nwrN" (Hebrew is read right to left) or Neron Caesar, but can also be alternately spelled "rsQ nwR". Hebrew doesn't have vowels.

Hebrew	Hebrew
Nrwn Qsr - Neron Caesar	Nrw Qsr - Nero Caesar
Q=100	Q=100
S=60	S=60
R=200	R=200
N=50	N=50
R=200	R=200
W=6	W=6
N=50
666	616

Gemetria and the Number of the Beast 666

John was using Gematria to hide Nero's name behind the numbers as to not further antagonize him.

Lucius Dimities Ahenobarbus

I'm curious as to where you found such a unique spelling of the name "Domitius". In every historical reference I can find to Nero, his given name always comes back "Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus". It appears that way not only on Wikipedia, but Britannica, Geni.com, Military-history, historica, and many others. Please cite your source.

Rev 13; Rev 17:8 What was, was Roman rule from 538 AD with Emperor Justinian’s decree and under the military protection of Belisarius until the deadly wound, was not, came in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the Roman government and established a secular one.

I once believed as you and never once read anything like this in all my years of studying eschatology. Is this copy and pasted from one of your sources, or is this your unique interpretation of Revelation 13?

I understand that I run the risk of getting banned for deigning to debate an admin here, and if that's what you intend to do at some point, I get it. But when all is said and done, the simplest explanation (Occam's Razor) is usually the best. I provide my answers primarily from the Bible itself, and when I do cite Josephus, I do so knowing that the early church father Eusebius endorsed him and his work:

Those who wish can retrace accurately from the history written by Josephus how many evils at that time overwhelmed the whole nation in every place and especially how the inhabitants of Judaea were driven to the last point of suffering, how many thousands of youths, women, and children perished by the sword, by famine, and by countless other forms of death; they can read how many and what famous Jewish cities were besieged, and finally how terrors and worse than terrors were seen by those who fled to Jerusalem as if to a mighty capital; they can study the nature of the whole war,* all the details of what happened in it,* and how at the end the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophets was set up in the very temple of God,* for all its ancient fame, and it perished utterly and passed away in flames.

KIRSOPP, LAKE ; LAKE, K. ; OULTON, J. E. L. (trans.): Preface. In: PAGE, T. E. ; CAPPS, E. ; ROUSE, W. H. D. ; POST, L. A. ; WARMINGTON, E. H. (eds.): The Ecclesiastical History and 2: English Translation, The Loeb Classical Library. vol. 1. London; New York; Cambridge, MA : William Heinemann; G. P. Putnam’s Sons; Harvard University Press, 1926–1932, p. 201

As for the rest of your replies to me, I respect your right to have an opinion, but I'm not going to spend time and effort arguing opinions. I have written what I have written, primarily sourced by Christ and the prophets themselves, and I will let their words speak for me.

Peace.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't use labels. They obfuscate rather than enlighten. The only thing that should matter to anyone here is whether what we believe is true or not.


Nero was not related at all to Domitian and Nero was succeeded immediately by Galba, who reigned for 7 months, replaced by Otho, who reigned for 3 months, then Vitellius, who reigned for 8 months who was then succeeded by Vespasian in a series of rapid imperial successions known as the "Year of the Four Emperors". This was a time, between 68 and 69 AD that saw the Roman Empire almost torn apart by this civil war. This is the reference made to the "beast whose mortal wound was healed" in Revelation 13:3. It has nothing to do with Mussolini.

Furthermore, Nero is the man whose number totaled 666 and 616 in some manuscripts: the only man of John's time whose name could. In Hebrew, letters of the alphabet also serve as numbers. Nero Caesar's name in Hebrew is spelled "rsQ nwrN" (Hebrew is read right to left) or Neron Caesar, but can also be alternately spelled "rsQ nwR". Hebrew doesn't have vowels.

​

Hebrew	Hebrew
Nrwn Qsr - Neron Caesar	Nrw Qsr - Nero Caesar
Q=100	Q=100
S=60	S=60
R=200	R=200
N=50	N=50
R=200	R=200
W=6	W=6
N=50
666	616

Gemetria and the Number of the Beast 666

John was using Gematria to hide Nero's name behind the numbers as to not further antagonize him.


I'm curious as to where you found such a unique spelling of the name "Domitius". In every historical reference I can find to Nero, his given name always comes back "Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus". It appears that way not only on Wikipedia, but Britannica, Geni.com, Military-history, historica, and many others. Please cite your source.


I once believed as you and never once read anything like this in all my years of studying eschatology. Is this copy and pasted from one of your sources, or is this your unique interpretation of Revelation 13?

I understand that I run the risk of getting banned for deigning to debate an admin here, and if that's what you intend to do at some point, I get it. But when all is said and done, the simplest explanation (Occam's Razor) is usually the best. I provide my answers primarily from the Bible itself, and when I do cite Josephus, I do so knowing that the early church father Eusebius endorsed him and his work:

Those who wish can retrace accurately from the history written by Josephus how many evils at that time overwhelmed the whole nation in every place and especially how the inhabitants of Judaea were driven to the last point of suffering, how many thousands of youths, women, and children perished by the sword, by famine, and by countless other forms of death; they can read how many and what famous Jewish cities were besieged, and finally how terrors and worse than terrors were seen by those who fled to Jerusalem as if to a mighty capital; they can study the nature of the whole war,* all the details of what happened in it,* and how at the end the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophets was set up in the very temple of God,* for all its ancient fame, and it perished utterly and passed away in flames.

KIRSOPP, LAKE ; LAKE, K. ; OULTON, J. E. L. (trans.): Preface. In: PAGE, T. E. ; CAPPS, E. ; ROUSE, W. H. D. ; POST, L. A. ; WARMINGTON, E. H. (eds.): The Ecclesiastical History and 2: English Translation, The Loeb Classical Library. vol. 1. London; New York; Cambridge, MA : William Heinemann; G. P. Putnam’s Sons; Harvard University Press, 1926–1932, p. 201

As for the rest of your replies to me, I respect your right to have an opinion, but I'm not going to spend time and effort arguing opinions. I have written what I have written, primarily sourced by Christ and the prophets themselves, and I will let their words speak for me.

Peace.

I will address this tomorrow as it's getting late and I need to go to bed. You have a good night.

 

[Stormcrow]

Rev 17:1-18
John is once more caught up in the Spirit as this angel shows him the future judgment of Mystery Babylon who is the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. Mystery Babylon is described first as a great whore that sits on many waters. She is a mystery to John when the vision was given to him, but now made very clear since the sixteenth century Reformation.

The woman is arrayed in purple and scarlet colors. These are the main colors of the Roman Catholic Church. The woman is the city of Rome known as Vatican City and the scarlet beast is the spiritual and worldly empire it controls being that of the Roman Catholic Church and all its believers through out the nations.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire: (Iraq), Medo - Persian Empire: (Iran), Grecian Empire: (Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt), Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The woman was drunk with power the beast (Satan) gave her as she made martyrs of the saints and prophets of God as their blood was shed for their faith in Christ Jesus as they refused to denounce Christ in order to take the mark of this beast and bow down to this one world political, economic, educational and religious system.

There is no credible Biblical scholar that supports or teaches any of this.

 

[for_his_glory]

Here are the links I used

Domitian - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Domitian (/dəˈmɪʃən, -iən/; Latin: Domitianus; 24 October 51 – 18 September 96)
Titus Flavius Domitianus was the younger brother of Nero. He was the last member of the Flavian dynasty.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero

Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (/ˈnɪəroʊ/ NEER-oh; born Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus; 15 December AD 37 – 9 June AD 68), was the fifth Roman emperor and final emperor of the Julio-Claudian dynasty, reigning from AD 54 until his death in AD 68

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't use labels. They obfuscate rather than enlighten. The only thing that should matter to anyone here is whether what we believe is true or not.


Nero was not related at all to Domitian and Nero was succeeded immediately by Galba, who reigned for 7 months, replaced by Otho, who reigned for 3 months, then Vitellius, who reigned for 8 months who was then succeeded by Vespasian in a series of rapid imperial successions known as the "Year of the Four Emperors". This was a time, between 68 and 69 AD that saw the Roman Empire almost torn apart by this civil war. This is the reference made to the "beast whose mortal wound was healed" in Revelation 13:3. It has nothing to do with Mussolini.

Furthermore, Nero is the man whose number totaled 666 and 616 in some manuscripts: the only man of John's time whose name could. In Hebrew, letters of the alphabet also serve as numbers. Nero Caesar's name in Hebrew is spelled "rsQ nwrN" (Hebrew is read right to left) or Neron Caesar, but can also be alternately spelled "rsQ nwR". Hebrew doesn't have vowels.

​

Hebrew	Hebrew
Nrwn Qsr - Neron Caesar	Nrw Qsr - Nero Caesar
Q=100	Q=100
S=60	S=60
R=200	R=200
N=50	N=50
R=200	R=200
W=6	W=6
N=50
666	616

Gemetria and the Number of the Beast 666

John was using Gematria to hide Nero's name behind the numbers as to not further antagonize him.


I'm curious as to where you found such a unique spelling of the name "Domitius". In every historical reference I can find to Nero, his given name always comes back "Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus". It appears that way not only on Wikipedia, but Britannica, Geni.com, Military-history, historica, and many others. Please cite your source.


I once believed as you and never once read anything like this in all my years of studying eschatology. Is this copy and pasted from one of your sources, or is this your unique interpretation of Revelation 13?

I understand that I run the risk of getting banned for deigning to debate an admin here, and if that's what you intend to do at some point, I get it. But when all is said and done, the simplest explanation (Occam's Razor) is usually the best. I provide my answers primarily from the Bible itself, and when I do cite Josephus, I do so knowing that the early church father Eusebius endorsed him and his work:

Those who wish can retrace accurately from the history written by Josephus how many evils at that time overwhelmed the whole nation in every place and especially how the inhabitants of Judaea were driven to the last point of suffering, how many thousands of youths, women, and children perished by the sword, by famine, and by countless other forms of death; they can read how many and what famous Jewish cities were besieged, and finally how terrors and worse than terrors were seen by those who fled to Jerusalem as if to a mighty capital; they can study the nature of the whole war,* all the details of what happened in it,* and how at the end the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophets was set up in the very temple of God,* for all its ancient fame, and it perished utterly and passed away in flames.

KIRSOPP, LAKE ; LAKE, K. ; OULTON, J. E. L. (trans.): Preface. In: PAGE, T. E. ; CAPPS, E. ; ROUSE, W. H. D. ; POST, L. A. ; WARMINGTON, E. H. (eds.): The Ecclesiastical History and 2: English Translation, The Loeb Classical Library. vol. 1. London; New York; Cambridge, MA : William Heinemann; G. P. Putnam’s Sons; Harvard University Press, 1926–1932, p. 201

As for the rest of your replies to me, I respect your right to have an opinion, but I'm not going to spend time and effort arguing opinions. I have written what I have written, primarily sourced by Christ and the prophets themselves, and I will let their words speak for me.

Peace.

"The Grand Design Exposed" by John Daniel

Check out this website as I have talked with John Daniels who was once a Jesuit and now exposes them for who they are.


For your consideration concerning 666 as being the number of the last Pope.

When you study the features of the Beast, you’ll see that it inherited all the features of its predecessors, namely the body of the Leopard (Greece see Daniel 7) not for its swiftness but its cruelty and the many Greek philosophies the Roman church brought into Christianity. The feet of the bear (Media/Persian Empire), the mouth of a lion, IE. Babylon. (Note, the pope claims also to have inherited the title Pontifex Maximus or in short ‘pontiff’ directly from Babylon and of course the dragon himself gave him the power, seat and great authority (Rev.13: 2 cf.12:9). The Beast is said to continue for 42 months (Rev 13:5) which of course is the 1260 years of cruel papal reign.

Papal Rome had outlawed the Holy Scriptures during its long reign of 1260 years from 538 A.D. to 1798 A.D.​

His number 666 can easily be worked out from his many titles, one of which is ‘Vicarius Filii Dei’ meaning ‘in the place of God.’ Indeed' the pope has taken the place and name of God by calling himself ‘holy father’. (See also (2Thess.2) vicar=short for, in place of, and Dei=short for Deity.

In Roman/Latin numerals, V=5, I=1, C=100, A=0, R=0, I=1, U=5 (same as V), S=0. Total= 112


F=0, I=1, L=50, I=1. I=1. Total=53


D=500, E=0, I=1. Total=501. Grand Total= 112+53+501=666​

Rome had total control from 538AD – 1798 which equals 1260 years


Time, times and a half time


2. The 1260 Years End with a Head Wound to Papal Power
The "head wound" to papal power was inflicted in 1798 when General Berthier of France captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799.


3. Wound Heals and Papal Power is Restored
Napoleon had closed down the Catholic Church and the Papacy, its power was thought to be forever broken. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to the Pope and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty. Today the Vatican (a church), has formal diplomatic relations with almost every country in the world.

 

[for_his_glory]

Many believe it's Nero while many believe it will be the present Pope being the son of Perdition, but it will not be some resurrected man that is dead in his grave. All that I have researched comes from scripture and history even though we differ what truly matters that we are prepared for the return of Christ and not fear that which must come first.

 

[for_his_glory]

There is no credible Biblical scholar that supports or teaches any of this.

Just because you have never studied this does not mean it is not true as it comes straight out of the Bible and the study of the Roman Empire who has even today makes many martyr's. Do you know what it means to be caught up in the Spirit?

 

[Stormcrow]

Here are the links I used

Domitian - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Domitian (/dəˈmɪʃən, -iən/; Latin: Domitianus; 24 October 51 – 18 September 96)
Titus Flavius Domitianus was the younger brother of Nero. He was the last member of the Flavian dynasty.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero

Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (/ˈnɪəroʊ/ NEER-oh; born Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus; 15 December AD 37 – 9 June AD 68), was the fifth Roman emperor and final emperor of the Julio-Claudian dynasty, reigning from AD 54 until his death in AD 68

Your Wikipedia link makes no familial connection between Nero and Domitian. But it does go into great detail about that which I have written on the "Year of the Four Emperors".

Year of the Four Emperors​

On 9 June 68, amid growing opposition of the Senate and the army, Nero committed suicide and with him the Julio-Claudian dynasty came to an end. Chaos ensued, leading to a year of brutal civil war known as the Year of the Four Emperors, during which the four most influential generals in the Roman Empire—Galba, Otho, Vitellius and Vespasian—successively vied for imperial power.[33]

(See your link above).

Nero was of the Julio-Claudian dynasty of Roman Caesars: the 6th and last of that line, and he is the "beast from the earth" of which John writes in Revelation 13. Domitian was part of the Flavian Dynasty of emperors, begun by Vespasian. And this is what, in part, the Roman historian Tacitus writes of him (Nero) and the persecution he began against the church:

But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace.

Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed.

Tacitus, Annals, Book XV (62-65 AD)

This is the "Domitius" (Nero) who exiled John to Patmos. There is no simpler or better interpretation than this.

 

[Stormcrow]

And here is the scene of Nero illuminating his gardens with Christians being burned on crosses, 1882 oil on canvas by Henryk Siemieradzki..

 

[Stormcrow]

"...For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all." Galatians 4:24-26

Now, compare this passage from Galatians to Revelation 19, where John writes of [current] Jerusalem as the "harlot" and New Jerusalem coming down from heaven as a bride. But the first covenant remained in effect until the old Jerusalem - the harlot - was judged for her sins and destroyed. And, as noted before, this happened in 70 AD, when - as Jesus told the disciples of the temple - that "not one stone shall be left here upon another..." Matthew 24:2

Again, this verse is speaking of 1st century Jerusalem:

For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” Revelation 19:2

Later in that same chapter, John writes this:

"Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints." Revelation 19: 7-8

Two Jerusalems represented by two covenants: the harlot, representing the Law of Moses (old covenant) and the New Jerusalem, representing the New Covenant Christ made through the shedding of His blood.

We live in the New and have been since 70 AD, when John saw "New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven as a bride." (Revelation 21: 2) But here's the most important part of why this needs to be understood: if Christ's parousia (presence) is not seen in the judgment of 1st century Jerusalem, then we are all still under the old covenant. The New Covenant has not yet been realized, and we are not raised directly and immediately into God's presence when we die, as Paul writes in II Corinthians 5:1-6. Hades is still full of the righteous and the unrighteous waiting for the judgment, and we are all still under the law and the curse of death.

Thank God we live in the New Covenant!

And I leave you with this closing thought: John was a Jew writing to predominately Jewish assemblies that comprised the seven churches of Asia. They were there because of the numerous Jewish diasporas that had happened in the past. Paul confirms this of John when he wrote in Galatians, "...when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised." Galatians 9-10

In other words, Peter, James, and John were apostles to the Jews. This is why Revelation is a Jewish-centric book, filled with symbolism that the Jewish mind of that time could readily understand. It's why Nero's name is hidden in the Hebrew spelling of "Nero Caesar" (616), because Hebrew was so little spoken at the time of Revelation's writing: Revelation itself being written in common (Koine) Greek.

So when you read Revelation, put yourself in the mindset of a 1st century Jewish believer in Christ facing persecution for their belief, and looking forward to their vindication in the parousia of Christ, and the judgment of the harlot.