Revelation Chapter 17

John is once more caught up in the Spirit as this angel shows him the future judgment of Mystery Babylon who is the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. Mystery Babylon is described first as a great whore that sits on many waters. She is a mystery to John when the vision was given to him, but now made very clear since the sixteenth century Reformation.

The woman is arrayed in purple and scarlet colors. These are the main colors of the revived Roman Empire. The woman is the city of Rome known as Vatican City and the scarlet beast is the spiritual and worldly empire it controls being that of the Roman Catholic Church and all its believers through out the nations.

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[Rondmon]

When the son of perdition takes his literal seat in the holy place of Jerusalem, 2Thessalonians 2:1-5, Jesus warned us to flee as He has a place prepared for us wherever we go to, Matthew 24:15-21; Rev 12:14. At this time many Christians will be taken captive that did not heed the warning to flee and if they will not denounce Christ and bow down and take the mark of this beast, who falsely claims peace and safety to all who takes its mark, they will die a martyr's death.

The Anti-Christ will rule from the E.U. he may indeed build a palace in Jerusalem, sounds like it, he appoints a Jewish High Priest as his "Tsar" over All Religion which tells us he loves defiling those things that are supposed to be of God. But at times we also get prose, that show some entity reigning over a region via a "Palace". Either way, he Beasts over Israel for 42 months. The point is, just like there being "UNWALLED VILIAGES" is not really the case, its a Metaphor for Israel being at peace with everyone of her immediate neighbors when Gog and Magog invades, (Russia, Iran and Turkey basically). It doesn't mean she will have no walls, in olden days if you were at peace you put up no walls.

Likewise, the Euphrates River does not dry up in Rev. 16, modern armies do not need rivers to try up to cross (ford) them. What it means is God PULLS BACK His plagues that have been pounding the whole wicked world, he DRIES UP the plagues, that way the Anti-Christ, Dragon and False Prophet can get the cowards who have been hiding in caves etc. to come out, to go to Armageddon. If the plagues are ONGOING does anyone think the Kings of the Whole World (Vial #6) would go to battle at Armageddon? So, when the Two-witnesses whose job is it to pray down every plague suddenly die, they have HOPE, the Vials start because before they died they prayed down the 3rd Woe (7 Vials). But then after the 5th Vial God dries up the "Euphrates River" so the Kings of the East will come against Israel, they think via Satan's lies if they can kill the Jews (they saw the source of their problems as the two-witnesses), that their problems will be solved. Why are the Kings of the East mentioned? Well, the 1/3 that is Destroyed by fire in the Asteroid will be the New World (North & South America) seeing as the New World has 1/3 of the Landmass on earth, and it hits in the Pacific Ocean which just so happens to have 1/3 of all the waters on this earth, thus those nations will be wiped out by God from the Asteroid Impact in Rev. 8 (Trumps 1-4 are all ONE Asteroid Impact). Thus the Kings of the East come against God from east of Jerusalem, mostly !! So, indeed the Book of Revelation is chock full of codes and metaphors.

God's protection is absolute to those who are His own and escape into the wilderness as they trust in Christ to help meet their needs. Just as God told Moses to strike the rock for fresh water, Exodus 17:1-7, and sending manna down from heaven and providing Quail for meat, Exodus 16, so will be the same in the end of days, Philippians 4:19.

Israel (THE WOMAN see Gen. 37:9) escapes to the Wilderness not the Church.

Nut shell scenario of what will happen during the first six trumpets of Rev Chapters 8-11 that leads up to the seventh trumpet and the 3 1/2 years events of Chapter 13 with the beast out of the sea and out of the earth.

The Seals are not actionable events, they are Prophetic in nature. Thus the 144,000 are the 5 million Jews fleeing Judea, NOTICE, God says HOLD UP the four winds (God's Wrath) until the 144,000 (5 Million Jews) are Sealed (to REPENT means Sealed by the holy spirit) and thus protected by God. It also says HURT NOT the Earth, Sea and Trees, well what hurts the Earth, Sea and Trees? The Trumpet Judgments in Rev. 8, by 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3 which just means a CERTAIN PACE, the New World and the Pacific Oceans. Did you know Oceans can not cross into other oceans ? Different PH Balance causes this believe it or not.

Rev. 8 is when the Beast comes to power, its just explained in depth in Rev. 13, NOTICE, the Beast rules for 1260 days and the Dragon in Rev. 12 chases the Woman (Israel) for 1260 days also. Well, God's Wrath lasts for 1260 days and starts in Rev. 8. As we see Rev. 9 and 15&16 complete the Wrath of God. All other chapters are Parenthetical Citation chapters. Rev. 17 and 18 cover 1260 days also.

Rev. 8 is ONE ASTEROID (Trumpet #1) where we see that Fire comes in via the Asteroid breaking apart as its flying over, before its ocean impact, which is Trump #2. Then as we know, Trumpet #3 is Wormwood or the Poisonous Fallout from the impact, be that Sulfur like what killed off the Dinos 70 million years ago or some nuclear like substance, who knows, we just know it poisons 1/3 (Two Americas) fresh waters. Then in Trump #4 we see the Joel 2:31 and the 6th Seal Prophesies both come true, the Sun & Moon goes darker by 1/3. All that is left is the Last Three Woes, or Trumpets 5, 6 and 7.

 

[Rondmon]

There is nothing mentioned in Zechariah 13:8-9 about 5 million or anywhere about 7000 Jews. I don't expect to see any Rapture mention in scripture as it's a false teaching. Christ only returns once on the last day at the end of the 3 1/2 year reign of the son of perdition, John 17:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Matthew 24:29-31.

There is nothing mentioned in Zechariah 13:8-9 about 5 million or anywhere about 7000 Jews. I don't expect to see any Rapture mention in scripture as it's a false teaching. Christ only returns once on the last day at the end of the 3 1/2 year reign of the son of perdition, John 17:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Matthew 24:29-31

1 Kings 19:16 And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abelmeholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room. 17 And it shall come to pass, that him that escapeth the sword of Hazael shall Jehu slay: and him that escapeth from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay.

18 Yet I have left me SEVEN THOUSAND in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

Paul also spoke of this in Romans 11

A Remnant Chosen by Grace

Romans 11:1 I ask then, did God reject His people? Certainly not! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject His people, whom He foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says about Elijah, how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars. I am the only one left, and they are seeking my life as well”?

4 And what was the divine reply to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”

The point is the 7000 is not an actual number, just like the 10 Brides is not an actual number of the church, why is it people accept some numbers as STAND INS but not others, it is God speak !! We also see 7000 slain in Revelation 11:13 via an earthquake, but that is also not 7000, the WHOLE POINT is God uses numbers, and especially numbers TIMED by other numbers to give us a CODED ANSWERS that only those who understand the Old Testament can figure out. I have been called unto Prophecy 37 years, I understand Prophesy.

As per the 1/3 see below:

Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the "third shall be left therein".

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

So, there is a 7000 reference for complete Israel saved by Grace as Paul says, there is a 144,000 reference as we all know. And as I have posted the Zechariah 13:8-9 scriptures, now they have to be acknowledged as an actual sum of people which add up tp 1/3 of a sum total, and as we all know, there are 15 million Jews living on earth today, so when NOT IF, the 1/3 repent, that means 5 million or so Jews repent or else God has to be a liar. And that is not possible. The very next verse shows the Day of the Lord arriving if one looks at Zechariah 14:1-2. Then Jesus shows up 3.5 years later as Zechariah 14:3-4 shows to defeat them. The only way the 7000 the 144,000 and the 5 Million are correct is the 7000 and 144,000 are CODED references to All Israel who Repent or who are saved by Grace. Notice the symmetry in the numbers? That's a TELL, God doesn't chose men to be saved, that is Free Will for all mankind, the EVEN SYMMETRY is only even because God is Multiplying Divine Completion by Completion, 7 x 10 x 10 x 10, and Fulness times Completeness 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10. The 1/3 in Zechariah 13:8-9 will be 5 million Jews. You really think Jesus is not going to have a Nation of Israel not ruling with him at the start? It is called the Kingdom Age for a reason. If I say it, it is factual, I do my research and prayer before I ever speak.

As per calling things a "False Teaching", I will not call your wrong teaching a false teaching per se, I will just say you are not privy to the facts. I do not think you are teaching falsely on purpose. But I will say if one can not tell the TIMING TELLS I show them then they don't want to see them, its there for all to see. Jesus returned in John 20, all one has to do is read the chapter and one can tell Jesus went to offer the Sacrifice and brought back the holy Spirit, Jesus was The Rock in the Desert, Jesus was I Am that I am, Jesus was the Man in Linen in Daniel ch. 12. There is no such thing as Two Comings, it means TWO ADVENTS. The Suffering Servant and the Conquering King. Jesus has been to earth many, many times.

Zechariah 13:8-9 says nothing about 5 million Jews. This is prophecy given about the remnant of Israel that have been scattered through out the nations as the 144,000 from each tribe of Israel that will return to Israel in the end of days. In order to understand Zechariah 13:8-9 you have to cross reference it with Romans 11:1-10 about the remnant of Israel before the before the Gentiles were grafted in. Also referenced in Rev 7:1-8 about the 144,000 from each tribe of Isreal that will return back to Jerusalem in the end of days before the return of Christ.

No one I know understand Zechariah as well as I do, I can tell you every verse and what it means from chapter 12-14, the END TIME verses. Just the fact that its 144,000 and you can't grasp its not a real number means you have to think like Calvin, God CHOOSES all those who get saved !! And that is not God's nature my friend. 1/3 of Israel are saved JUST BEFORE the Day of the Lord. See Zech. 14:1 the VERY NEXT VERSE after the 1/3 are saved is the DOTL arriving. So, the 1/3 has nothing to do with being brought back in 1948, it is 5 million Jews who come to Christ Jesus. The 144,000 is a CODE, you can see the 10 Female Brides is a CODE for the complete Church but you can't see the 144,000 Males are a CODE for all Israel. Israel was first thus they are depicted as make virgins.

In Rev. 2:10 we see Smyrna was told they would have Tribulation fir 10 days, that means for the COMPLETE Church Age, see John 16:33 ALL TIME on this earth is tribulation. In Dan. 2 and Dan. 7 the 10 Horns/Toes mean COMPLETE Europe reunited, if you are looking for only 10 nations you are going to miss it. It will be the E.U. and its 25 plus nations which = 10 or COMPLETE Europe reunited. The 10 Commandments were a stand in for ALL God's Laws. There were 10 Plagues in Egypt which represents COMPLETE Judgment. There is no such thing as 144,000 Super Preachers. The 144,000 and the 1/3 are the same people, the 5 million some odd Jews who repent and flee Judea in Rev. 7.

Revelations is given to all nations and tongues that live throughout the whole world as in Jew and Gentile. Israel is mainly mentioned, but not all of Israel is Gods chosen people. Those who are washed in the blood of the Lamb are joined as a branch with Israel as God is the root of that branch and those who are sealed by His Holy Spirit are His own who find favor in Him, Romans 11:11-31. Therefore, our attention needs to be on those things that are happening in Israel especially Jerusalem as being Gods Holy City.

The Church will not be on earth, Israel are the Fathers bride, the Church will be Jesus' bride. We are two different entities who must be saved in the same manner, BY FAITH ALONE.

Within Gods final chastisement on man He continues to call them to repentance and one has to take into consideration during the time of the seven trumpets sounding what God pours out that destroys man will be a third part of every nation simultaneously being destroyed unless they repent and turn back to God. This also includes those who call themselves a Christian, but by name only as they have not Gods Holy Spirit dwelling in them and will also be destroyed, Matthew 7:21.

The 1/3 is a specific area, he will also slay the Old Worlds wicked via OTHER PLAGUES

 

[Rondmon]

The focus in Revelations would seem to center around Israel only and the nations that come against her for this is how John would recognize it to be since all other nations were not yet developed in his time. Revelations is about all of us, Jew and Gentile, past, present and future that by faith keep Gods commandments. We are Gods witnesses that testify of His mercy and grace as we take His word out into the world to those who have ears to hear.

The reason is the Church is not on earth, the Remnant in Rev. 12 can ONLY be the Gentile Church, LOOK AT IT !! Its easy to see, it can ONLY BE the Remnant Gentile Church. The Dragon gets ANGRY because he can not get at the Woman (Israel) be that in your mind 144,000 or 5 million, only that portion who repents could be a Remnant, the 2/3 who refuse to repent can not be the Remnant because 2/3 is larger than the 1/3. BUT.......the Dragon TURNS from the 1/3 OR 144,000 whom he can't get at to go at "THE REMNANT" but if we look those have the TESTIMONY of Jesus and KEEP God's Commandments, the 2/3 who die will not repent, that is why they die, so they can not be THIS REMANT BELOW can they?

Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman,(could not touch the 1/3) and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,(Jesus is THAT SEED see Gal. 3) which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

See my point? The 1/3 (Women who flees to the Wilderness) can not be TOUCHED, the 2/3 never repent so they can not have the TESTIMONY of Jesus can they? Thus THIS Remnant can only be the Church of Jesus, but why is it called a Remnant (small part of a larger part) at all? Because the Church was Raptured Pre Trib, of course. Those Gentiles saved AFTER the Pre Trib Rapture are the Remnant of Jesus' Church (Israel BIRTHED Jesus). Paul said it best, there is ONE SEED and that is Jesus Christ, Gal. 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Rev 4 and 5 speak nothing about a pretrib rapture of the church, but that John was only caught up in the Spirit that day on the isle of Patmos and given these visions by that of an angel sent by Jesus to show him what must come first before His second coming, Rev 1:1-3; 9-10.

Look at Rev. 4:4 ALL THREE things there are promises to the Church who OVERCAME in Revelation 2:10 (CROWNS OF GOLD) in Rev. 3:5 (White Raiment/Robes) and finally in Revelation 2:21 (They will sit at God's THRONES). All three are seen in Rev. 4:4, it is three promises to those who OVERCOME in the Church Age. Then in Rev. 5:9-10 we see this.

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Who do you think needs REDEEMED in Heaven? Not Angels, this is the Pre Trib Raptured Church. We are Kings and Priests. The 24 Elders is also a CODE, read 1 Chronicles 24, it is about the 24 Orders of the Priesthood. This is the Church in Heaven BEFORE Jesus ever opens the Seals. Amen.

 

[Rondmon]

Not to be rude or anything, but as I have stated there is nowhere in scripture that says anything about us being taken out of here before Christ returns. Plus, none of this has anything to do with Rev 17, but if you would like to start a new thread about the rapture in the End Time forum just tag me in.

Well I saw you give a complete overview of the end times and Revelation. There will be a Pre Trib Rapture, and thus the Church will not be in Rev. 17.

God Bless.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Rondmon, are you an American? I wonder because it is the American futurist eschatology that has decided the Antichrist will come from Europe or be in Europe. Of course, if one is not a futurist, then it is true, the Antichrist did come from Europe but that was the only part of the world where God was at work and recording that.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Well I saw you give a complete overview of the end times and Revelation. There will be a Pre Trib Rapture, and thus the Church will not be in Rev. 17.

God Bless.

Just a thought to add. For the Preterists, the woes poured out on the wicked as described in Revelation are not poured on the church (although the saints are mentioned as suffering defeat under the man of sin for 3.5 years which renders a Rapture unlikely since they are still there), because the church left town when the armies were surrounding Jerusalem. So they are not mentioned because they are not in Jerusalem. They took the prophetic words of Jesus seriously and left. They were not taken out but fled "Babylon" so that they did not suffer what was about to come...the judgement of God.