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Revelation was written by John

dirtfarmer here

We establish church doctrine only from epistles written by Paul, not by Peter(Cephas), James, or John. Galatians 2:9 "And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision." All of Paul's epistles can be used for church doctrine. We don't have any writings of Barnabus.

The epistles written by James, John, and Peter were to the Jews. Peter at first preach the gospel of the kingdom. Paul preached the gospel of the grace of God.
James 1:1 " James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes scattered abroad, greeting.
1 Peter 1:1 " Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,"
Revelation 1:1 " The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants,"
Galatians 4:7 "Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Jesus Christ." As in James, a servant, not a son.

Revelation 1:6 "Hath made us kings and priest unto God and his Father;" Exodus 19:5-6 " Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all the people: for all the earth is mine. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priest, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." The Church is not a kingdom of priest but the bride of Christ.

Revelation 1:9 " I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle of Patmos, for the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ."
Yes, Christ revealed these things unto His servants, They were not for the curios or idle. (Rev.1:1) But in The Acts of The Apostles They preached both The Gospel of The Kingdom and the Grace of God in Jesus Christ. The same as we should be teaching today. They fit together. (Act 8:12) (Act 19:9) (20: 24-27) (Act 28:31). Christ came preaching "The Kingdom of The Heavens" (Matt. 4:17) (in the oldest manuscripts) Heaven is plural (there are 3 heavens) (2 Cor. 12:2). The Gospel of the Kingdom of the Heavens was to the Jew first, After Christ rejection and Crucifixion by His own, and after his resurrection, The Kingdom and the grace of God was preached to the Jew first and the Gentile. Most believers do not understand, while Christ died for our sins on the Cross, Without the resurrection, His death alone would have been void of paying our debt, but by the, The Father's resurrection of The Son, satisfied the demand of the Holy Law of God for the payment of Deaths Due. We are saved by His life, not by His death. (Rom. 5:10) And I also understand that the Church body of born again believers are the Son's of God (Romans chapter 8), and that the servants of Christ are those 144,000 Tribal Jew of Israel and also those that believe (by their preaching) to the Jew and Gentile, serving God without fear of death through great tribulation of seven years. The one thing that has hindered the progress of the Church, her meekness, her purpose, seeking not it's own, non violence, and poverty has been the claiming the promises of Israel to the Church.

In Christ
Douglas Summers
 
Yes, Christ revealed these things unto His servants, They were not for the curios or idle. (Rev.1:1) But in The Acts of The Apostles They preached both The Gospel of The Kingdom and the Grace of God in Jesus Christ. The same as we should be teaching today. They fit together. (Act 8:12) (Act 19:9) (20: 24-27) (Act 28:31). Christ came preaching "The Kingdom of The Heavens" (Matt. 4:17) (in the oldest manuscripts) Heaven is plural (there are 3 heavens) (2 Cor. 12:2). The Gospel of the Kingdom of the Heavens was to the Jew first, After Christ rejection and Crucifixion by His own, and after his resurrection, The Kingdom and the grace of God was preached to the Jew first and the Gentile. Most believers do not understand, while Christ died for our sins on the Cross, Without the resurrection, His death alone would have been void of paying our debt, but by the, The Father's resurrection of The Son, satisfied the demand of the Holy Law of God for the payment of Deaths Due. We are saved by His life, not by His death. (Rom. 5:10) And I also understand that the Church body of born again believers are the Son's of God (Romans chapter 8), and that the servants of Christ are those 144,000 Tribal Jew of Israel and also those that believe (by their preaching) to the Jew and Gentile, serving God without fear of death through great tribulation of seven years. The one thing that has hindered the progress of the Church, her meekness, her purpose, seeking not it's own, non violence, and poverty has been the claiming the promises of Israel to the Church.

In Christ
Douglas Summers

hello Douglas Summers, dirtfarmer here

I agree that one of the biggest hindrances to the local church is the replacement theology that many preach. I also believe that most don't understand the purpose of the church. The purpose of the church is to provoke Israel to jealousy: Romans 11:11 " I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealously."

What is the greatest witness that we have to a lost and dying world? Is it not the life that we live daily before them? When troubles come, do we act as the world does, complaining about how unfair life is, cursing and "poor-mouthing". The believer has been given joy even in the midst of trials, but how often do we act as the world does; complaining and crying about how bad we have it. Christians have never been promised an easy life in this world. Our treasures are reserved for us when we are in heaven with Christ.

I know that most will say that I am wrong and don't know what I am saying. Matthew 28:19-20 was given to the eleven not to the church.
 
hello Douglas Summers, dirtfarmer here

I agree that one of the biggest hindrances to the local church is the replacement theology that many preach. I also believe that most don't understand the purpose of the church. The purpose of the church is to provoke Israel to jealousy: Romans 11:11 " I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealously."

What is the greatest witness that we have to a lost and dying world? Is it not the life that we live daily before them? When troubles come, do we act as the world does, complaining about how unfair life is, cursing and "poor-mouthing". The believer has been given joy even in the midst of trials, but how often do we act as the world does; complaining and crying about how bad we have it. Christians have never been promised an easy life in this world. Our treasures are reserved for us when we are in heaven with Christ.

I know that most will say that I am wrong and don't know what I am saying. Matthew 28:19-20 was given to the eleven not to the church.
Agreed.
 
hello smaller, dirtfarmer here

In your statement "Today, I accept the condemnation of these workings of in my own flesh." How do you reconcile that statement with Romans 8:1 " There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

You may have missed the observation, entirely. Indwelling sin is termed by Paul, twice in Romans 7:17-21 as "NO MORE I."

I have no issues whatsoever with the quite rightful condemnation of "NO MORE I." It is a BEAUTIFUL matter, to me, Gods Perfect Judgment in CONDEMNATION.

Do you understand the "redemption of our body" in verse 23?
We have been saved from the penalty of sin
We have been saved from the power of sin
We will be saved from the presence of sin we when are with Jesus: the redemption of our body.

I understand every believer likes to see the good side of things for themselves. I consider the condemnation of "NO MORE I" to be exceptionally beneficial for all of us. Most believers run quite quickly away from "condemnation." I don't. I use and employ the "condemnation" and "warnings" from God in Christ to "NO MORE I" quite frequently.

Gods Words of condemnation are in fact LIFE to me. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4. I don't read only half the scriptures, the ones my sorry hide likes for itself. I don't give my sorry hide the pleasure. Gal. 5:17. I understand that the Spirit is against the "flesh" and I'm all for the Spirit being against the flesh. Wouldn't have it any other way.
 
Gods Words of condemnation are in fact LIFE to me. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4. I don't read only half the scriptures, the ones my sorry hide likes for itself. I don't give my sorry hide the pleasure. Gal. 5:17. I understand that the Spirit is against the "flesh" and I'm all for the Spirit being against the flesh. Wouldn't have it any other way.

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23

This includes your physical body, regardless of your agnostic beliefs.



JLB
 
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23

This includes your physical body, regardless of your agnostic beliefs.

JLB

Although I may appreciate any believers attempts to claim themselves sinless, I don't think such claims hold any scriptural water. Sorry. Romans 7:17-21 is the "truthful" account. And the "real" account, of what the problems of the flesh really are, that NO MAN can change. But you see my friend, the flesh will NOT accept this conclusion, and can not. Gal. 5:17.

I will go even further and say anyone who believes they are sinless are quite religiously delusional. And will go even further and say such delusions are from God.

Isaiah 66:4
I also will choose their delusions
, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

It does take a very great deal of Spiritual honesty, to come to the conclusions that Paul delivers to us in the scriptures. Not everyone is fit to wear this kind of brutal honesty. To me, such honesty cuts the wheat from the chaff in short order.

Romans 7:
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
 
Although I may appreciate any believers attempts to claim themselves sinless, I don't think such claims hold any scriptural water.

I don't know of any such claim as "sinless" made by anyone.

If you have proof of such claim then produce it, otherwise your are not being honest.

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23

This includes your physical body, regardless of your agnostic beliefs.


Cleansing ourselves is part of the process of sanctification.

Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1


Every time I bring up this subject about our part we are required to do concerning sin, you immediately attempt to change the subject, and begin spouting on about no one is "sinless", and claiming we all have Satan in our flesh, when the subject of the scriptures here is cleansing ourselves, and being sanctified, as if this is somehow impossible.


Please read what Paul says, and address the actual language of the scriptures.

  • let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
  • may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body

Your Gnostic belief that all flesh is demonic, tends to make the word of God of no effect.


Sanctify - Strong's G37 - hagiazō

[The KJV translates Strongs G37 in the following manner:sanctify (26x),hallow (2x), be holy (1x).]

  1. to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow

  2. to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
    1. consecrate things to God
    2. dedicate people to God
  3. to purify
    1. to cleanse externally
    2. to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
    3. to purify internally by renewing of the soul

  • Paul's desire and pray is that God would sanctify His people completely: spirit, soul and body.
  • Paul's command to the church is to cleanse ourselves of all filthiness of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of the Lord.


JLB
 
Isaiah 66:4
I also will choose their delusions
, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

It does take a very great deal of Spiritual honesty, to come to the conclusions that Paul delivers to us in the scriptures. Not everyone is fit to wear this kind of brutal honesty. To me, such honesty cuts the wheat from the chaff in short order.

Romans 7:
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.


My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1



JLB
 
I understand every believer likes to see the good side of things for themselves. I consider the condemnation of "NO MORE I" to be exceptionally beneficial for all of us. Most believers run quite quickly away from "condemnation." I don't. I use and employ the "condemnation" and "warnings" from God in Christ to "NO MORE I" quite frequently.

Gods Words of condemnation are in fact LIFE to me. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4. I don't read only half the scriptures, the ones my sorry hide likes for itself. I don't give my sorry hide the pleasure. Gal. 5:17. I understand that the Spirit is against the "flesh" and I'm all for the Spirit being against the flesh. Wouldn't have it any other way.
smaller, The Word of God,as given to man, are ABSOLUTES. They are not left up to private interpretation. Your intellect and objectivity of the Scriptures are yours, you own them. Because of your own personal intellect of the Scriptures, It makes you (in your own mind) that you are the only one that understand the Scriptures. If anything, the word of God is Spiritual, and not subject to carnal interpretation. God did not complicate the Gospel, it's simplicity is in Jesus the Christ, and it means just that. Christ is the beginning, finisher and fulfiller of all things. From the most fallible and weak Christian to the most illustrious saint, ALL have the same standing before Christ: Saved by the blood and resurrection of our Lord by Faith. That is the simplicity. Now our STATE is another matter. We are not instantly mature as we are instantly saved. We must grow in grace (not into grace).

What you teach is not necessary or prudent to the security of each believer that has their faith in Christ. This is not criticism for what you believe, it's just that the simplicity of our salvation is Christ alone.
 
We establish church doctrine only from epistles written by Paul

Wow. You don't run into many believers that know this fact in these days.
If we erased Pauls epistles. We would have no clue on how to live the Christian way of life in the Church.

Great topic.........and truth.
 
Wow. You don't run into many believers that know this fact in these days.
If we erased Pauls epistles. We would have no clue on how to live the Christian way of life in the Church.

Great topic.........and truth.

hello gr8grace3, dirtfarmer here
Thanks

If you use Paul's epistles there is no confusion, but when you try to use other scriptures to establish Church doctrine you get confusion, and God is not the author of confusion. If we erased Paul's epistles, we would be living as Jews, and not heirs and joint heirs with Jesus Christ.
 
hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

How are the "Gentiles" to provoke Israel if they are not the Church?

The Church, as you called it in your post, refers to Jews and Gentiles.

Your quote:

The purpose of the church is to provoke Israel to jealousy:

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Romans 11:11

To say the church was to provoke the Jews to jealousy in inaccurate, it is the Gentiles receiving salvation that provokes the Jews to jealousy.

The scripture uses specific language, which says... to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.

The Jews considered themselves as the only ones to whom salvation has come, which Paul explains in the following verse as being the Abrahamic Covenant.

16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. Romans 11:16-18


JLB
 
smaller, The Word of God,as given to man, are ABSOLUTES. They are not left up to private interpretation. Your intellect and objectivity of the Scriptures are yours, you own them. Because of your own personal intellect of the Scriptures, It makes you (in your own mind) that you are the only one that understand the Scriptures. If anything, the word of God is Spiritual, and not subject to carnal interpretation. God did not complicate the Gospel, it's simplicity is in Jesus the Christ, and it means just that. Christ is the beginning, finisher and fulfiller of all things. From the most fallible and weak Christian to the most illustrious saint, ALL have the same standing before Christ: Saved by the blood and resurrection of our Lord by Faith. That is the simplicity. Now our STATE is another matter. We are not instantly mature as we are instantly saved. We must grow in grace (not into grace).

What you teach is not necessary or prudent to the security of each believer that has their faith in Christ. This is not criticism for what you believe, it's just that the simplicity of our salvation is Christ alone.
I try to stick to written scriptural facts for discussion Douglas. None of what I engage in has ever been a threat to any believer here, other than what their own flesh perceives as otherwise. Gal. 5:17
 
I don't know of any such claim as "sinless" made by anyone. If you have proof of such claim then produce it, otherwise your are not being honest.
I don't know of any such claim as "sinless" made by anyone.
Every time I bring up this subject about our part we are required to do concerning sin, you immediately attempt to change the subject, and begin spouting on about no one is "sinless"
JLB

The issues from your end try to play it both ways, as shown above. And not very good on the first count.

1 John 1:8

AND when it comes to the scriptural reality of sin being of the devil most believers positions blow up entirely in denial. Not an uncommon phenomena among positions that prefer to condemn believers and ignore this fact for their own (seldom if ever admitted to) sin. 1 John 3:8
 
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The Church, as you called it in your post, refers to Jews and Gentiles.

Your quote:



11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Romans 11:11

To say the church was to provoke the Jews to jealousy in inaccurate, it is the Gentiles receiving salvation that provokes the Jews to jealousy.

The scripture uses specific language, which says... to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.

The Jews considered themselves as the only ones to whom salvation has come, which Paul explains in the following verse as being the Abrahamic Covenant.

16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. Romans 11:16-18


JLB

hell JLB, dirtfarmer here

How do you interpret Romans 16:4" Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles."
 
Why would it be of no consequence who Peter wrote to. Is the consequences of taking what was written about Moses and apply that to the Church today? How do you reconcile that Jesus is our Sabbath and the Sabbath of Moses' time? The law was of works but salvation today is by grace through faith.
It is of no consequence if Peter wrote to Gentile believers or Jewish believers because all NT writings are for all believers. This is the outcome of what Peter writes and what you keep avoiding to address.

I never said the ways of the forefathers was futile
I never said you did. It is a question based on the text of 1 Pet. 1:18. Are you denying that the ways of the forefathers was futile?

1 Peter 2:10 is speaking about the time that God took a Hebrew( Abram) as his chosen people. Deuteronomy 7:7 " The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because you more in number than any other people; for ye were the fewest of all people." All Jews are Hebrews, but not all Hebrews are Jews. Abraham was a Hebrew but he was not a "Jew". Only those of the tribe of Judah are Jews. Later the tribe of Benjamin was added.
1 Pet. 2:10 referes to something that happened many hundreds of years earlier? What does "now" mean?

Did Paul preach "baptism for the remission of sin" as did Peter, or did he preach that Christ paid our debt of sin, the death burial and resurrection of Christ?
Let's look at what else Peter preached:

1 Pet. 1:3, 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead (ESV)

1 Pet. 2:24, 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. (ESV)

1 Pet. 3:18, 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, (ESV)

Acts 3:17-19:
17 "And now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers.
18 But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer, he thus fulfilled.
19 Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, (ESV)

Acts 10:38-43:
38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree,
40 but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear,
41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.
43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." (ESV)

And Paul:

Rom. 6:2-4:
2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. (ESV)

Does it not look like Paul and Peter preached the same thing?

And I can't help but notice that you failed to address the fact that Paul and Peter wrote to the same group of people, and about similar matters. As I said previously, that alone does your argument in.
 
It is of no consequence if Peter wrote to Gentile believers or Jewish believers because all NT writings are for all believers. This is the outcome of what Peter writes and what you keep avoiding to address.


I never said you did. It is a question based on the text of 1 Pet. 1:18. Are you denying that the ways of the forefathers was futile?


1 Pet. 2:10 referes to something that happened many hundreds of years earlier? What does "now" mean?


Let's look at what else Peter preached:

1 Pet. 1:3, 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead (ESV)

1 Pet. 2:24, 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. (ESV)

1 Pet. 3:18, 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, (ESV)

Acts 3:17-19:
17 "And now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers.
18 But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer, he thus fulfilled.
19 Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, (ESV)

Acts 10:38-43:
38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree,
40 but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear,
41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.
43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." (ESV)

And Paul:

Rom. 6:2-4:
2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. (ESV)

Does it not look like Paul and Peter preached the same thing?

And I can't help but notice that you failed to address the fact that Paul and Peter wrote to the same group of people, and about similar matters. As I said previously, that alone does your argument in.

hello Free, dirtfarmer here

In verse 3-5 of 1 Peter it is stated "begotten us again unto a living(lively-KJV) hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled , that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." When is the last time but the earthly kingdom promised to the Jews.
Galatians 4:7 "Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son and if a son, then an heir of God through Jesus Christ

Are we not now an heir of God through Jesus Christ,?

Where is it ever stated that the Church, the body of Christ, is a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people?

Is there ever a "bride" that is a priest or part of a priesthood? We have been espoused to Christ as a chaste virgin, his bride.

The word now in 1 Peter 2:10 is referring to the time of the call of Abram including Jacob's name being changed to Israel.

As to Paul and Peter preaching being the same; Where does Peter say any thing abut being "baptized into Christ death. Peter offer baptismal remission of sins through repentance which will occur at a future time of refreshing. There is nothing about faith in the blood for righteousness. Paul preaches that salvation is unconditional through faith. Peter preached the cross is full of shame and guilt but Paul says there is glory in the cross.
 
: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealously."
To leave that Scripture phrase by it's self can be misleading to the novice. Scriptures that give the full view of the Church. In (Gen. 3:15 Promise of a Redeemer) before the calling of Abraham. (Gen. 12: 1-3 The calling of Abraham) A blessing to all families of the earth. In a Understanding of the Kingdom of the Heavens, The Church is older than Israel in the plan of God, called out BEFORE the FOUNDATION of the world (Eph. 1:4). Israel was called out AT the FOUNDATION of the world.
The Church was foreordained. The Church is the administration of the Kingdom ruling with Christ as sons and heirs of the throne. The Church was to be for the priestly Jew with so close a relationship with Christ as a marriage is between man and wife.

The Church was not a mystery to Israel, the mystery was that Christ, in calling out a people of His own, included the Gentile to show His grace in making one new man out of the two that Israel would be jealous and seek after the Lord instead of their own self will. So the Church was not solely to to provoke Israel, But adding the Gentile to the Church was. I purposely left out the Scripture references. For to prove one's teaching as right or wrong, we have to study the Scriptures. And in doing so, we find many things that they we were not aware of in the word of God. If you have trouble, I will post the Scriptures later.

 
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