Sabbath Day or Sunday

[Eventide]

The Law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ..

Last time I checked.. Saturday is still the Sabbath Day (or seventh day) and Sunday is still the first day of the week.

If Acts 15 doesn't make it clear that we are not required to observe the LAW or sabbath days, then I'm not sure what would make it clear.. this is the same old argument that started back then and it was also settled back then. That Gentiles in Christ are not mandated to observe the LAW of Moses.

Furthermore.. the scriptures tell us that people gathered on the FIRST DAY of the week to break bread.. and that collections were taken on the first day of the week when they assembled.. and I believe that Christ is to have the preeminence in all things.. including days.. He gets the FIRST DAY of the week, not the last..

Saturday is still the seventh or sabbath day, and Sunday is the first day of the week.. and if people can't see that Gentile Christians are not mandated to keep the Law of Moses.. or to observe sabbath days, which are but shadows of the real substance.. CHRIST.. then that imo is too bad.

 

[Elder Mark]

Also, Jesus did not obey the Sabbath (John 5:18). He doesn't need to obey according to the law because, He is our High Priest (Heb 4:14) and priests in the Temple actually profane the Sabbath yet blameless (Matt 12:5).

That one's too blatant to let go, Felix . Quoting John 5:18 completely out of context. it reads: Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Now let's take a look how Jesus had "broken" the Sabbath.

In John chapter 5, verses 1-14 we read about the healing at Bethesda, where Jesus healed a man who was sick for 38 years. This happened to take place on the Sabbath. The healed man tells the Jewish authorities that it was Jesus who healed him (vs 15). So, now the legalistic Jewish Sanhedrin council accuses Jesus of breaking the Sabbath law. (vs 16). Jesus then answers "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working." (vs 17). So, in summary, He states:

1. It is not wrong to do good deeds on the Sabbath (His Father does so too...)
2. Sanhedrin, you have no authority over Me, because The Father and I are one.

So, you see the statement in John 5:18 is about the Jews assuming that Jesus broke the Sabbath, rather than Him actually doing so.

Hebrews 4:14 - Amen!, couldn't agree more. Jesus is our High Priest

Matthew 12:5 - Here again, you quote a single verse out of context Felix. Again, we are looking at the same background of the Jewish authorities accusing Jesus and His disciples of breaking the Sabbath law. In Matthew 12:1, the disciples are hungry and pick up some corn and eat it while underway on the Sabbath. In vs 2, the Pharisees spot them and address Jesus to the point. Jesus then in vss 3-5 gives some examples to show the Pharisees that they are simply too legalistic in these matters. The point He makes in vs 5, where he says "the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are blameless", is to say, that the priests on duty in the Temple are actually performing their duties on Sabbath, yet, you do not blame them.... So, you can clearly see, that He doesn't say that it is okay to break the Sabbath for priests, but he confronts the Pharisees - similar as in John 5-18 - with their legalistic view on Sabbath-keeping.

I assume Felix, that I make sense in my reasoning and that the verses were not deliberately quoted out of context by you. Keep in mind it's dangerous to willingly quote scripture out of context to support ones point...

God bless!

 

[Elijah674]

Pray tell me WHAT IN THE WORLD does your post have to do with the sabbath?? If you want to talk about the sabbath, I can do that and if you want to talk about baptism I can do that also, not both on the same thread. Or maybe you want to sign up for a one on one on either or whatever.

Huh? Hi, OK:
Well, first Christ says that ye must Be Born AGAIN! And if you know of anyway to be Born Again & not be baptized let me know? Acts 5:32

And the Lords 7th day Sabbath is then nailed to His cross you say?? This is not in the least bit truth! It is the forth Commandment of the Eternal 10 Covenant that Inspiration has in Christ's Spoken Word + the recreated tables of ones heart, ... if they are Born Again & baptised, or have not sined the sin against the Holy Ghost.

Heb. 10
[15] Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
[16] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

There is no nailed to the cross seen there. And any 'lawless' person is not fit for the Eph, 4:5 church membership. And James still has Inspiration seen 'ETERNALLY' in James 2:10.
It is no wonder that earth is in the shape that it is when these ones have NO LAW in their life being taught, and still calling theirself Christians.

1 John 2
[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

And to toss out Christ's law just finds one 'at present' a lieing heathen by their own addmission, as 'i' see it. And that is what I had meant by not in any way seening one ready for my church membership.
Matt. 28 has one to be taught first, and the post all ready told me that to pursue further would just find me in very vain Titus 3:9-11 territory.

And Christ's Matt. 28 verses talks of all His commandments that are recreated into any Born Again heart!!

[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So whatever?? but take watchful care.
--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

--Elijah here:

Isa 58 finds the prophecy of Christ's teaching while here about His 7th Day Sabbath [[LAWFUL LOVING DUTIES]]. and old Israel were doing satan's work of trying to bring reproach upon both Christ & His Commandments. (the 7th Day Sabbath in particular!)

[12] And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
[13] If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
[14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Compare Isa. 42:21 here!
[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honorable.

And that is exactly what Christ did do! To hate when finished is murder! and lust when finished is adultery! And now?? We see satan wanting to just try an toss it all out, huh! [SICK!!]

 

[felix]

So, in the light of Matt 5:17-19 Jesus is contradicting Himself? Why is it so difficult to accept that it were the O.T. Ceremonial Laws that were nailed to the cross.
Also, when you're a collector of vintage sports cars and I come bring you a new piece to your collection, does that then mean that I expect you to scrap the ones you already had? In John 13:34, Jesus states "A new Commandment I give to you...", not "The new Commandment"The commandment He gave was a clear addition to the already existing Commandments, as seen in the light of Matthew 5:17-19. If the whole 10 Commandments have been made redundant and we only have to follow Jesus in loving one another, then you sir, are contradicting yourself when you say "If you follow the old covenant, you commit abomination", because then it really wouldn't matter what we follow as long as we just love one another.

There is a difference between 10 commandments and what God expects.
Matt 5:21-48.

Jesus quoted your 10 commandments and explains what He expects which are 'NOT' in the law.

FYI, according to the Old Covenant or the 10 commandments, you don't have to love enemy and it never says to love your enemy. If so, David should have loved Goliath instead of killing Him.

When you follow God's commandments, you know what you are following. If you follow the old covenant (or anything according to old covenant), you go to the Father as a divorced wife. If you are happy to go to the Father as a divorced wife which He considers as an abomination, it's not my problem because, I go to the Father through Christ as a 'bride of Christ'.

You can say many times the same thing to prove a denominational doctrine but Scripture is very clear on it.

I had also proved Jesus did not obey the Sabbath in one of the above posts.
#19 http://www.christianforums.net/f17/sabbath-day-sunday-38095/index2.html#post566694

 

[felix]

That one's too blatant to let go, Felix . Quoting John 5:18 completely out of context. it reads: Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Now let's take a look how Jesus had "broken" the Sabbath.

In John chapter 5, verses 1-14 we read about the healing at Bethesda, where Jesus healed a man who was sick for 38 years. This happened to take place on the Sabbath. The healed man tells the Jewish authorities that it was Jesus who healed him (vs 15). So, now the legalistic Jewish Sanhedrin council accuses Jesus of breaking the Sabbath law. (vs 16). Jesus then answers "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working." (vs 17). So, in summary, He states:

1. It is not wrong to do good deeds on the Sabbath (His Father does so too...)
2. Sanhedrin, you have no authority over Me, because The Father and I are one.

So, you see the statement in John 5:18 is about the Jews assuming that Jesus broke the Sabbath, rather than Him actually doing so.

Hebrews 4:14 - Amen!, couldn't agree more. Jesus is our High Priest

Matthew 12:5 - Here again, you quote a single verse out of context Felix. Again, we are looking at the same background of the Jewish authorities accusing Jesus and His disciples of breaking the Sabbath law. In Matthew 12:1, the disciples are hungry and pick up some corn and eat it while underway on the Sabbath. In vs 2, the Pharisees spot them and address Jesus to the point. Jesus then in vss 3-5 gives some examples to show the Pharisees that they are simply too legalistic in these matters. The point He makes in vs 5, where he says "the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are blameless", is to say, that the priests on duty in the Temple are actually performing their duties on Sabbath, yet, you do not blame them.... So, you can clearly see, that He doesn't say that it is okay to break the Sabbath for priests, but he confronts the Pharisees - similar as in John 5-18 - with their legalistic view on Sabbath-keeping.

I assume Felix, that I make sense in my reasoning and that the verses were not deliberately quoted out of context by you. Keep in mind it's dangerous to willingly quote scripture out of context to support ones point...

God bless!

John 5:17-18 But Jesus answered them, "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working." Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

Jesus said: He is always working and Sabbath is all about 'REST'. It is John who is writing that He broke the Sabbath - not what Jews were thinking. I do understand the context very well.

This is what the law says:
Exod 31:15 'Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh [is] the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. (NKJV)
Does your Bible say anything different? Where in the 'law' does it say you can do good on Sabbath?

Matt 12:5 "Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?

Jesus said, priests "profane" the Sabbath.

 

[Elder Mark]

There is a difference between 10 commandments and what God expects.
Matt 5:21-48.

Jesus is teaching the spirit of the law there as opposed to the letter of the law...

When you follow God's commandments, you know what you are following. If you follow the old covenant (or anything according to old covenant), you go to the Father as a divorced wife. If you are happy to go to the Father as a divorced wife which He considers as an abomination, it's not my problem because, I go to the Father through Christ as a 'bride of Christ'.

That sounds a bit too esoteric to me. I can't find any scriptural reference to "going to the Father as a divorced wife" . Apart from that, are you saying you are going to the Father as a church??? I'm asking this question, because it's common knowledge that when the Bible speaks of the bride of Christ, it speaks of Christ's Church.

You can say many times the same thing to prove a denominational doctrine but Scripture is very clear on it.

I feel no need to prove any denominational doctrine and I'm in agreement that Scripture is very clear on the matter as I have shown you.

I had also proved Jesus did not obey the Sabbath in one of the above posts.
#19

What you are saying there ("If you love me love one another (John 14:15, John 15:12) - Just one commandment.") This is thing that I have proven already incorrect; Jesus never said that the "Love one another" commandment came in replacement of the 10 commandments. I could quote Matthew 5:17-19 yet again but I won't

 

[Elijah674]

Hi Felix.
Here is how 'i' see it. I find Christ the same Christ/God Himself in the OT as in the NT except He became Christ/man. (Heb. 13:8-9) This was the Plan. He 'limited' Himself by allowing Rom. 13 for conservative or liberal Conditional Government, as Adam had lost his domain to satan. (see Matt. 4:9) In other words He gave up as man, His Theocracy.

Yet, execution in the OT was still Christ/God [[JUSTIFIED]] (got that?) Execution of Christ/God was His own Theocracy. When any one or group passed the 'Great Transgression' (Ps. 19:13) called the Sin Against the Holy Ghost in the NT by Christ, He was God justified in their execution which was not MURDER!

And surely when Christ gave every opportunity over & over again for even these ones to repent which they just would not do, He then did indeed execute some. (note Isa. 5:1-4 'What more could I DO!' & then verse 5!) And it is & will be NO different at the end day! Obad. 1:16 + Mal. 4:1-4. All of these final end ones have NO hope of ever changing! OT Christ/God knew this, and in the NT we see the PROVEN testings! And at last we see the 666 FINAL TESTING!

And surely, it was His prerogative to do as He saw fit. (He let satan + Cain live on for a purpose)

OK: Now see Matt. 18:17-18 for how eternal death (second death) has it told by Christ. When one become's a Born Again Christian he or she is to have their name recordedin both the earthly + the heavenly Record Book of life. Also note that [[THE CHURCH BODY]] that Christ left behind are the ones to do this.

Also note that if the person, persons or even the Church ITSELF Apostasies (Sin again AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST) that they will also be cut off, Spewed out, the whole Church Body! See Rev. 2:5 + Matt. 23:38. (+Rev. 3:9 as the ex/Laodicea of ibid. 16!)

Now: Per the title. Re: Sabbath Day or sun stuff?;)

The only question to answer is does one Truely LOVE CHRIST???
If so, He (Christ) documents that they will keep His Commandments! If not? Then they will take the Mark of The beast in the last testing as the FINAL TESTING as for their Love vrs. their professed Love!
See Exod. 16:4-5 + verse 27-28 & verse 35 for how the children were tested for 40 years on just this one 7th Day Sabbath Commandment before they were to enter their land of Canaan. And we too are on the borders of our land of Caanan, if you get what is seen? If not? study Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 with the twice documention from God as REQUIRED in Gen. 41:32

What has God said?? The 7th Day Sabbath is His Blessed, Holy, Sanctified, & Set Aside for Holy use and it will be the Final Test for [MANKIND!]
And in closing? Let me just ask you how the Rev. 17:1-5 ones have came to be Prophesied as the Abomination of the Earth ones by Inspiration?? And for how many years have they been teaching the same old stuff? [[[And be sure that there are still some sincere ones still there!]]] But before it is all said & done Rev. 18:4 is REQUIRED to be saved!

--Elijah

 

[felix]

Jesus is teaching the spirit of the law there as opposed to the letter of the law...

No. Love your enemies which Jesus preached is never found in the law. There is nothing called 'spirit of the law'.

That sounds a bit too esoteric to me. I can't find any scriptural reference to "going to the Father as a divorced wife" . Apart from that, are you saying you are going to the Father as a church??? I'm asking this question, because it's common knowledge that when the Bible speaks of the bride of Christ, it speaks of Christ's Church.

Did you really read what I wrote in my previous posts? Let me know what you didn't understand. Please refer all Scriptures before posting.

We are not under the old covenant (Heb 8:13) but new covenant with better promise (Heb 8:6). God married Israel (Isa 54:5) but divorced because of Israel didn't keep the old covenant and involved in adultery (Jer 3:8). Now, God cannot take Israel or His people back (Jer 3:1). So, God sent His Son as an atonement (Eze 16:62-63) to wash the sins of His people (1 Jn 2:2) and to marry them again (Mark 2:19-20) through a new covenant (Heb 9:15). If you follow any of the old covenant, you go to the Father as a divorced wife which is an abomination (Deu 24:1-4). So, you must go to the Father through Jesus Christ (John 14:6) who is the only way using the new covenant as a bride (Rev 21:9).

What you are saying there ("If you love me love one another (John 14:15, John 15:12) - Just one commandment.") This is thing that I have proven already incorrect; Jesus never said that the "Love one another" commandment came in replacement of the 10 commandments. I could quote Matthew 5:17-19 yet again but I won't

It's not a replacement of 10 commandments. I never said that. When Christ came, Law became obsolete and vanishing away (Heb 8:13).

Gal 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor [to bring us] to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

So, who is this tutor we no longer under? Law

 

[felix]

Now: Per the title. Re: Sabbath Day or sun stuff?;)

The only question to answer is does one Truely LOVE CHRIST???
If so, He (Christ) documents that they will keep His Commandments! If not? Then they will take the Mark of The beast in the last testing as the FINAL TESTING as for their Love vrs. their professed Love!
See Exod. 16:4-5 + verse 27-28 & verse 35 for how the children were tested for 40 years on just this one 7th Day Sabbath Commandment before they were to enter their land of Canaan. And we too are on the borders of our land of Caanan, if you get what is seen? If not? study Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 with the twice documention from God as REQUIRED in Gen. 41:32

What has God said?? The 7th Day Sabbath is His Blessed, Holy, Sanctified, & Set Aside for Holy use and it will be the Final Test for [MANKIND!]
And in closing? Let me just ask you how the Rev. 17:1-5 ones have came to be Prophesied as the Abomination of the Earth ones by Inspiration?? And for how many years have they been teaching the same old stuff? [[[And be sure that there are still some sincere ones still there!]]] But before it is all said & done Rev. 18:4 is REQUIRED to be saved!

--Elijah

Let me be brief here to stick with the topic.

Prophecies that speak about the end of Sabbath in OT:

• Hos 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, Her feast days, Her New Moons, Her Sabbaths -- All her appointed feasts.
• Amos 8:5 Saying: "When will the New Moon be past, That we may sell grain? And the Sabbath, That we may trade wheat? Making the ephah small and the shekel large, Falsifying the scales by deceit,... ...Amos 8:9-10 "And it shall come to pass in that day," says the Lord GOD, "That I will make the sun go down at noon, And I will darken the earth in broad daylight; I will turn your feasts into mourning, And all your songs into lamentation; I will bring sackcloth on every waist, And baldness on every head; I will make it like mourning for an only [son,] And its end like a bitter day.

Fulfillment of these prophecies in NT:

• Col 2:16-17 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
• Gal 3:25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
• Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A new [covenant,"] He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

For Sabbath lovers, let me ask some questions from Luke 6:1-4:

• Is it lawful for Disciples to pluck the heads of grain on Sabbath? Is yes, please show be Scripture reference in the law.
• When Jesus pointed out the David /snowbread incident, did He by any chance justify the acts of David or His disciples by saying it is lawful?

Please don't bargain God's love for a day.

 

[Elijah674]

Let me be brief here to stick with the topic.



Prophecies that speak about the end of Sabbath in OT:

• Hos 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, Her feast days, Her New Moons, Her Sabbaths -- All her appointed feasts.
• Amos 8:5 Saying: "When will the New Moon be past, That we may sell grain? And the Sabbath, That we may trade wheat? Making the ephah small and the shekel large, Falsifying the scales by deceit,... ...Amos 8:9-10 "And it shall come to pass in that day," says the Lord GOD, "That I will make the sun go down at noon, And I will darken the earth in broad daylight; I will turn your feasts into mourning, And all your songs into lamentation; I will bring sackcloth on every waist, And baldness on every head; I will make it like mourning for an only [son,] And its end like a bitter day.

Fulfillment of these prophecies in NT:

• Col 2:16-17 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
• Gal 3:25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
• Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A new [covenant,"] He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

For Sabbath lovers, let me ask some questions from Luke 6:1-4:

• Is it lawful for Disciples to pluck the heads of grain on Sabbath? Is yes, please show be Scripture reference in the law.
• When Jesus pointed out the David /snowbread incident, did He by any chance justify the acts of David or His disciples by saying it is lawful?

Please don't bargain God's love for a day.

Hi, what are you saying????? Rev. 22:18-19 + Exod. 32:33 Give me any place even hinted at by God in their whole Eternal Ten Commandment law where They ever even allude to the Laws of Moses.. days! And sabbaths?? These Laws of Moses were all kept as a 's'abbath in some respect, but NEVER are they said to be the Lords Required Sabbath of the 4th Commandment. And you teach that they were?? Read Eccl.3:14 + Rev.'s last couple verses of warning to us!

And Deut. 31:7 + 24-26, has them penned by Moses [IN A BOOK] & placed [IN THE **SIDE** of the Ark], not inside with the Eternal Law of the Godhead!

And what were these laws?? 2 Cron. 8:13 'Even after a certain rate every day, offering according [to the commandments of Moses], on the ['s'abbaths] and on the [new moons] and on the [solemn feasts] [three times in the year,] even on the [feast of unleavened bread], and the [feast of weeks,] and in the [feast of tabernacles.]

OK: This is what Paul was running into in Gal. Col. Eph. +, Even in Acts 15:1 + 5 finds that the meeting had [NOTHING TO DO WITH THE 10 Commandments!] but the law of circumcism +++ the Law of Moses that met there fulfillment as the cross of Christ.

Gal. 3:19 even say's that these laws were added till the seed (Christ) should come to whom the promisre was made. And there is NO way to find the Eternal Law of the Godhead an added Law!
1 John 3:4 found the first sin in heaven!

And do you know where this said by you would be?? 'Prophecies that speak about the end of Sabbath in OT:

And it is just a FACT, when Christ comes again, all the living will be in just two groups, [7th Day Sabbath Keepers or Mark of the Beast cop/outs!] Eccl. 12:13-14 + Matt. 6:24.

--Elijah

 

[felix]

Elijah674, You try to twist the Scripture and say the same false doctrine again and again and never actually answered my questions... did you? Let me ask again from Luke 6:1-4:

• Is it lawful for Disciples to pluck the heads of grain on Sabbath? [ ] *Yes [ ] No. * Is yes, please show be Scripture reference in the law.
• When Jesus pointed out the David /snowbread incident, did He by any chance justify the acts of David or His disciples by saying it is lawful? [ ] Yes [ ] No.

Just a simple Yes/No would do.

I though people would really refer my scripture references but it looks like no one cares... Ok., I will paste them for more clarity.

• Exod 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
• Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A new [covenant,"] He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Based on Exod 34:28 and Heb 8:13, Let me ask you some questions:

• Are the 10 commandments included in the old covenant? [ ] Yes [ ] No.
• Is the old covenant obsolete? [ ] Yes [ ] No.
• Are the 10 commandments obsolete? [ ] Yes [ ] No.

Again, a simple Yes/No would do.

 

[Elijah674]

Elijah674, You try to twist the Scripture and say the same false doctrine again and again and never actually answered my questions... did you? Let me ask again from Luke 6:1-4:

******
Hi, look poster! Elijah 674 is an older guy, and am a little slower with getting on other forums as well, + 'i' try not to be very personal but just reply to the material posted. And for you to attempt to 'read my mind saying that I attempt to twist my Lord's Word' finds your post in trouble by me from the start, as NO ONE can read anothers mind but God!

And I have no problems with answering the best that I am able. I had just missed these verses with all of the others. But here is one from God's Word for any finally saved ones of Isa. 66 that come into my mind as I see it...

[22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to Another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Then you ask me this below?

******

• Is it lawful for Disciples to pluck the heads of grain on Sabbath? [ ] *Yes [ ] No. * Is yes, please show be Scripture reference in the law.

*******
OK: Me here. Yes, surely raising a fork to our mouth is not a sin. To say that we cannot eat on the Sabbath Day when hungry is doing as these who accused Christ were doing, and these ones were not Christians!

But never were one to take baskets to fill for the weeks ahead, huh? See Isa. 42:21 for how Christ came for your 'tempting' question with just a yes or no, huh???? And see my question mark!:yes Surely Christ had to make His 7th Day Sabbath Honourable with magnification! See Isa. 58:12-14 for Sabbath duties.


*******

• When Jesus pointed out the David /snowbread incident, did He by any chance justify the acts of David or His disciples by saying it is lawful?
• [ ]. Yes [ ] No.

Just a simple Yes/No would do.


*******
Yes, surely!
*******



I though people would really refer my scripture references but it looks like no one cares... Ok., I will paste them for more clarity.

• Exod 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
• Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A new [covenant,"] He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Based on Exod 34:28 and Heb 8:13, Let me ask you some questions:

• Are the 10 commandments included in the old covenant? [ ] Yes [ ] No.
• Is the old covenant obsolete? [ ] Yes [ ] No.
• Are the 10 commandments obsolete? [ ] Yes [ ] No.

Again, a simple Yes/No would do.

*****
--Elijah again:
Your questions with a yes or no, reminds me of 2 Cor. 4:2, (craftiness) do you 'desire' that to be how it comes across? And can you answer that with a yes or no? Are the ten Commandments Obsolete you ask?

You can answer that for me if you will? and if you say yes, then, I will leave it with Titus 3:9-11's warning for me.
*****


I see that this was what you wanted answered,(?) and that this is the end of the post, huh?;)
But SERIOUSLY, 'i' see a real problem for any to attempt to void out Christ Spoken Word, and then His Written Word in the Eternal Covenant of the Ten (Heb. 13:20) + what IS THEN CALLED THE NEW COVENANT in Heb. 10:15-16 for the New Place that they are [[ALL]] NOW RECREATED IN, THE BORN AGAIN HEART!


OK: Now you ask yourself, is this the Truth for your heart??? Yes or No is not needed by me.
And do you know what this Covenant means? It has no such wording as the first day of the work week in it.


--Elijah

 

[felix]

Elijah674,

You didn't score well. Your answers are in direct violation of Scripture.

Questions from Luke 6:1-4:

• Is it lawful for Disciples to pluck the heads of grain on Sabbath? [ ] Yes [x] No.

Ans: No

A man was stoned for gathering sticks on Sabbath (Num 15:32-36). God got angry for gathering manna which is for eating on Sabbath (Exod 16:28).

• When Jesus pointed out the David /showbread incident, did He by any chance justify the acts of David or His disciples by saying it is lawful? [ ] Yes [x] No.

Ans: No

(Luke 6:3-4)But Jesus answering them said, "Have you not even read this, what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: "how he went into the house of God, took and ate the showbread, and also gave some to those with him, which is not lawful for any but the priests to eat?"

Questions based on Exod 34:28 and Heb 8:13.

• Are the 10 commandments included in the old covenant? [x] Yes [ ] No.

Ans: Yes

(Exod 34:28) So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

• Is the old covenant obsolete? [x] Yes [ ] No.

Ans: Yes

(Heb 8:13) In that He says, "A new [covenant,"] He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

• Are the 10 commandments obsolete? [x] Yes [ ] No.

Ans: Yes

Since, Old covenant is obsolete, the 10 commandments are obviously obsolete.

These questions are based on simple straight forward verses which doesn't require any kind of craftiness. By accusing me of craftiness, you must understand that you accuse the Holy Spirit of craftiness who inspired these verses through His prophets.

Do you know what are the better promises in the New Covenant which Christ said? Let me be brief in just giving one hint: Death exists in New Jerusalem according to Old Covenant (Isa 65:20). No Death in New Jerusalem in New Covenant (Rev 21:4).

You must not stick on to an old promise which is never going to happen because Christ had given better promises under the New Covenant.

 

[Elijah674]

Elijah674,

You didn't score well. Your answers are in direct violation of Scripture.



Questions from Luke 6:1-4:

• Is it lawful for Disciples to pluck the heads of grain on Sabbath? [ ] Yes [x] No.

Ans: No

A man was stoned for gathering sticks on Sabbath (Num 15:32-36). God got angry for gathering manna which is for eating on Sabbath (Exod 16:28).

• When Jesus pointed out the David /showbread incident, did He by any chance justify the acts of David or His disciples by saying it is lawful? [ ] Yes [x] No.

Ans: No

(Luke 6:3-4)But Jesus answering them said, "Have you not even read this, what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: "how he went into the house of God, took and ate the showbread, and also gave some to those with him, which is not lawful for any but the priests to eat?"



Questions based on Exod 34:28 and Heb 8:13.

• Are the 10 commandments included in the old covenant? [x] Yes [ ] No.

Ans: Yes

(Exod 34:28) So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

• Is the old covenant obsolete? [x] Yes [ ] No.

Ans: Yes

(Heb 8:13) In that He says, "A new [covenant,"] He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

• Are the 10 commandments obsolete? [x] Yes [ ] No.

Ans: Yes

Since, Old covenant is obsolete, the 10 commandments are obviously obsolete.

These questions are based on simple straight forward verses which doesn't require any kind of craftiness. By accusing me of craftiness, you must understand that you accuse the Holy Spirit of craftiness who inspired these verses through His prophets.

Do you know what are the better promises in the New Covenant which Christ said? Let me be brief in just giving one hint: Death exists in New Jerusalem according to Old Covenant (Isa 65:20). No Death in New Jerusalem in New Covenant (Rev 21:4).

You must not stick on to an old promise which is never going to happen because Christ had given better promises under the New Covenant.

Have it your way. Christ did not score to good with these ones of Rev. 17:1-5 ones either! As seen in Matt. 10:25 first time around, (Eccl. 3:15) nor these familiar ones of Matt. 23.

And young'in,;) 'i' know what to expect from the 'LAWLESS teaching ONES' of todays Rev. 17:1-5 church's!!

The war has already begun!! Rev. 12:17's True Laodicean Virgin Fold in doctrine only, + Matt. 24:21's FINISHING.

But that is not your testing, (1 Peter 4:17 is 'the House of God' First!) yet, we will see how the two of us end up in that testing of 666 perhaps??!

And no, you have no more of an idea of what I post up than what your posting back show's!

--Elijah

 

[stovebolts]

Elijah674,

You didn't score well. Your answers are in direct violation of Scripture.

Questions from Luke 6:1-4:

• Is it lawful for Disciples to pluck the heads of grain on Sabbath? [ ] Yes [x] No.

Ans: No

A man was stoned for gathering sticks on Sabbath (Num 15:32-36). God got angry for gathering manna which is for eating on Sabbath (Exod 16:28).

this calls for discernment and I disagree with you on this. If one was picking heads of grain because they were hungry, then it is not a violation of the Law.

As far as the Manna which ended after 40 years, it was to show them to rely on the Lord, and not their own means.

As far as the man picking up sticks, it was due to his manner. Numbers 15:30 But the soul that does anything presumptuously, whether he is born in the land, or is a stranger, the same reproaches the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Scripture does not say that you cannot pick up sticks on the Sabbath. It says that you cannot do anything presumptiously.

• When Jesus pointed out the David /showbread incident, did He by any chance justify the acts of David or His disciples by saying it is lawful? [ ] Yes [x] No.

Ans: No

(Luke 6:3-4)But Jesus answering them said, "Have you not even read this, what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: "how he went into the house of God, took and ate the showbread, and also gave some to those with him, which is not lawful for any but the priests to eat?"

Again, mercy will always trump the statutes of the Law. I do not know how much you have actually studied the Law, but you cannnot keep every law all the time. In some cases, to keep one laws means to break another law because in given situations, you cannot keep both laws. Thus, discernment over which commandment is greater must be reached. Jesus even gives us an example of this discernment in the parable of the good samaritan. For the priest of levite to help the beaten man would have put themselves at potential risk of violating a part of the law as it pertains to priests or levites in proximity to a dead body.

Questions based on Exod 34:28 and Heb 8:13.

• Are the 10 commandments included in the old covenant? [x] Yes [ ] No.

Ans: Yes

(Exod 34:28) So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

God's words are everlasting...

• Is the old covenant obsolete? [x] Yes [ ] No.

Ans: Yes

(Heb 8:13) In that He says, "A new [covenant,"] He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Correct, we are under a better covenant where the Law is not written on tablets of stone, but are written in our hearts. Don't confuse this.

• Are the 10 commandments obsolete? [x] Yes [ ] No.

Ans: Yes

Since, Old covenant is obsolete, the 10 commandments are obviously obsolete.

Again, I disagree. Scripture states in Jer 31 that the Law will be written in our hearts with this new covenant. It makes no mention of God's commandments being obsolete.


.

Grace and Peace

 

[felix]

• Is it lawful for Disciples to pluck the heads of grain on Sabbath? [ ] Yes [x] No.

Ans: No

A man was stoned for gathering sticks on Sabbath (Num 15:32-36). God got angry for gathering manna which is for eating on Sabbath (Exod 16:28).

this calls for discernment and I disagree with you on this. If one was picking heads of grain because they were hungry, then it is not a violation of the Law.

As far as the Manna which ended after 40 years, it was to show them to rely on the Lord, and not their own means.

As far as the man picking up sticks, it was due to his manner. Numbers 15:30 But the soul that does anything presumptuously, whether he is born in the land, or is a stranger, the same reproaches the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Scripture does not say that you cannot pick up sticks on the Sabbath. It says that you cannot do anything presumptiously.

• When Jesus pointed out the David /showbread incident, did He by any chance justify the acts of David or His disciples by saying it is lawful? [ ] Yes [x] No.

Ans: No

(Luke 6:3-4)But Jesus answering them said, "Have you not even read this, what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: "how he went into the house of God, took and ate the showbread, and also gave some to those with him, which is not lawful for any but the priests to eat?"

Again, mercy will always trump the statutes of the Law. I do not know how much you have actually studied the Law, but you cannnot keep every law all the time. In some cases, to keep one laws means to break another law because in given situations, you cannot keep both laws. Thus, discernment over which commandment is greater must be reached. Jesus even gives us an example of this discernment in the parable of the good samaritan. For the priest of levite to help the beaten man would have put themselves at potential risk of violating a part of the law as it pertains to priests or levites in proximity to a dead body.

(Hos 6:6) For I desire mercy and not sacrifice. It's true that God desired mercy and mercy precedes over law. But that does not make what is unlawful as lawful. Jesus Himself said, it is unlawful. Luke 6:1-4 clearly explains what God wants from those who practice the law.

• Are the 10 commandments obsolete? [x] Yes [ ] No.

Ans: Yes

Since, Old covenant is obsolete, the 10 commandments are obviously obsolete.

Again, I disagree. Scripture states in Jer 31 that the Law will be written in our hearts with this new covenant. It makes no mention of God's commandments being obsolete.

God's law in Old Covenant is not the God's law in New Covenant:
(Heb 10:28-29) Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

The laws given by God to Moses is called the Moses' law. The law that God writes in our hearts and minds is everything what Christ said us to follow in the New Covenant.

To be more accurate about God's Law in New Covenant, we have Christ's sermon on the mount in Matt 5, where He clearly points out some commandments and explains what He wants and points out the flaw in the old covenant (Heb 8:8). E.g., in 10 commandments it is said not to commit adultery but in the New Covenant God wants us not even to think about doing it. What Christ wants is referred by Christ Himself as 'New Commandment' in John 13:34 which is not the same 10 commandments, but what God ultimately wants from the beginning as in 2 John 1:5-6, which is to love one another. It's not just loving one another which is already in the law but even to love their enemies which is clearly missing in the law and old covenant.

Hence, the 10 commandments is not the law what God writes in our hearts and minds.

 

[tessiewebb]

Why did Jesus appear to His disciples on Sundays after His resurrection?

 

[Elijah674]

Why did Jesus appear to His disciples on Sundays after His resurrection?

Hi, go read John 20's whole chapter prayerfully! It was our Sat. night. Verse one has it while it was yet dark!;) And then see verse 19 for these ones in hiding!

Here is what I will put up for the ones who LOVE Christ Law, and the ones who are LAW/LESS!

Psalms 19
[7] The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: ...'
...
[10] More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
...

[13] Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

(It is no wonder that satan hates the Law of God! And the great transgression, surely finds satan's crew LAWLESS with No Love for Christ's 2 Cor. 3:3's 'Letter, Moral Character Epistle,' to us!)

Psalms 119
[1] Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. (see
1 John 3:4's definition for the defiled ones below)
....
[6] Then shall I not be ashamed, when [[I have respect unto all thy commandments]].
(and then comes along the one of Dan. 7:25 & his lawless bunch who have NO Law. But you wait until 666 arrives & then you will hear Rom. 13 worn out by these 'law/less' ones!)

....
[10] With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.
[11] Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
(and again sin is defined by Inspiration in 1 John 3:4!)

[12] Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.
....
[21] Thou hast rebuked the proud that are cursed, which do err from thy commandments.

(Hello! Ye proud & cursed! This IS from the one of Heb. 13:8-9 that is the same .. FOR EVER!)

....
[29] Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously. (directly from the ten Commandments.. Exod. 20:16)
....
[32] I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart. (yet satan has his ones run away from the Lords Commandments!)
[33] Teach me, O LORD, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end.
[34] Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
[35] Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight. (and against the Godhead's Law is Against God, antichrist! again Dan. 7:25)

And ibid. verse

[126] It is time for thee, LORD, to work: for they have made void thy law.
(and the work that is seen here? It is seen as in the past Eccl. 3:15 history of Isa. 5:5, & Matt. 24:21 of today's! God has withdrawn His protection over planet EARTH! The 'hedge has been removed'. And the reason why is that they HAVE MADE VOID THEIR ETERNAL LAW. And this is Their last resort 'of Love' for some few to repent. Rev. 18:4)

[127] Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.
[128] Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.
(and again every false way is IDENTIFIED IN 1 John 3:4 as 'Whosoever committeth SIN transgresseth [ALSO THE LAW]: for [SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW].')

So what comes next? Two things. Jer. 31 for the Remnant to be saved! (see Rev. 12:17!!) And the lawless hate these ones!

[31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
....
[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And the second class? Are the ones of Matt. 7's BROADWAY Professors as seen in Rev. 17:1-5! That have indeed made void the Eternal Law of God + a workless faith profession!


Rom. 3
[31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, [[we establish the law.]]

And Eccl. 12
[13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
[14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

(Yet, take notice of what you are hearing which is not secret, but 'wide open' blasphemy against God with having NO LAW! And all of this mainly is because of His required 7th Day Sabbath Command! SICK!!)

And what Eternal Law does satan & his DESIRED ones of Gen. 4:7 hate??
1 John 3:4 has the only Eternal Covenant that [[DEFINES]] what sin is!
[3] And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

--Elijah

 

[felix]

Hi, go read John 20's whole chapter prayerfully! It was our Sat. night. Verse one has it while it was yet dark!;) And then see verse 19 for these ones in hiding!

It's Saturday night for you but Scripture says it's Sunday. Sabbath is not from Saturday evening to Sunday evening. It's Friday Evening to Saturday Evening.

(John 20:1) Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.

Do you know Mary Magdalene was not supposed to come out on Sabbath? Did you read (Luke 23:56) where it says she rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.