Salvation and sanctification is now complete in Christ: Consecration then follows

[RBDERRICK]

In Jesus' Christ's kingdom and body on earth, there is no separation bewteen His salvation and sanctification, even as there is none between His faith and works. However, there is a growing consecration to His service and ministry, that is after being saved and sanctified by His new birth of the Spirit.

1 Cor
{6:9} Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind... {6:11} And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans
{2:28} For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: {2:29} But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

God's sanctification from the lust and sins of the world, is at once even as by circumcision of the Spirit of Christ.

Hebrews
{4:12} For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The sanctification of Christ from the old life without God, is the circumcision of Christ and instant operation of the Spirit, made for them that repent of all their sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake.

2 Cor
{5:17} Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. {5:18} And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ.

When any man obeys the commandment of God to all men everywhere, to repent of all our sins and trespasses for Jesus's sake, then His NT promise of being created a new creature in Christ Jesus, is immediately kept by the Spirit with a whole new heart and life, that is now all of God, and none of the devil.

The progressive sanctification of sinful man's faith, with only half hearted gradual repentance at one's own will of convenience, is not the pure religion of Jesus' righteous faith, that is freely given to them that repent by commandment with a whole heart.

Jerem
{3:9} And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. {3:10} And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Ezek
{18:30} Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn [yourselves] from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

And so, while there is no progressively diminishing 'gap' between being wholly converted, circumcised, and sanctified in Christ Jesus, there is an increasing call to consecration in His service.

1 Tim
{4:13} Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. {4:14} Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. {4:15} Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

2 Tim
{2:15} Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1 Cor
{16:15} I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and [that] they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

 

[electedbyhim]

Are saying the regenerate do not sin at all?

They are completely sanctified now?

 

[gordon777]

Are saying the regenerate do not sin at all?

They are completely sanctified now?

Jesus told how when the Spirit of truth came, that Spirit reproves the world of sin, for not believing on Jesus Christ.

Peter filled with that Spirit begins to testify that believing in the name of Christ ( to not of the world, to be reproved of sin for not believing on Christ.) shall receive remission of sins. (forgiveness for believing in Jesus)

Paul after continues the same testimony, how the scripture also has concluded all ( of the world) under sin, ( unbelief) so the promise of faith of Jesus Christ might be given ( the free gift of grace) to them that believe.



John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;



Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.


Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

 

[gordon777]

When the world turns away from belief in Christ, they are told they shall die in their sins:


John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.


The Jews believed in Jesus hearing HIs words, but Jesus told them, IF they continue in HIs word, then they are HIs disciples INDEED, to know the truth, ( continuing in HIs word) and the truth to make them free. ( the truth is what we are made free FROM)


John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.



By not believing in Jesus we are told we die in our sins. ( we die)

By believing in Jesus, He abides EVER, ( no dying)

IF the Son has MADE US FREE, we shall be FREE INDEED. ( from lies, from sin, from death, by not believing in Him, they die in their sin.)



John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

 

[electedbyhim]

Jesus told how when the Spirit of truth came, that Spirit reproves the world of sin, for not believing on Jesus Christ.

Peter filled with that Spirit begins to testify that believing in the name of Christ ( to not of the world, to be reproved of sin for not believing on Christ.) shall receive remission of sins. (forgiveness for believing in Jesus)

Paul after continues the same testimony, how the scripture also has concluded all ( of the world) under sin, ( unbelief) so the promise of faith of Jesus Christ might be given ( the free gift of grace) to them that believe.



John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;



Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.


Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

This does not answer my questions.

How do you interpret thoses verses.

 

[gordon777]

This does not answer my questions.

How do you interpret thoses verses.

I will answer a different way then.


"Are saying the regenerate do not sin at all?

They are completely sanctified now?"



Complete:

Knit together in love ( believers together) which is all riches, as it is full assurance of understanding, which is acknowledgement of the mystery of God, of the Father and of Christ. ( an example of this is, that they who commit adultery, lack that understanding/faith...Proverbs 6:32 But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.)


Colossians 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;


Now we receive Christ ( in understanding what holiness is, that it is belief in Him) they walk in Him accordingly, which is to be rooted and built up in Him, established in the faith ( in Him rising from the dead)

We understand to not hear the spoilers, of their vain deceit, because in Christ dwells all the fulness of God, and we are COMPLETE IN HIM, in Him we are circumcised by HIs circumcision made without hands, ( the Spirit of Christ) and through faith ( in the Spirit) the body of the sins of the flesh is PUT OFF. ( by the circumcision of Christ.)

If we do not confess this, we deny it, that we are buried with Christ in baptism, to be also risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God. ( God raising Him from the dead to rise us with HIm from sin and death/unbelief, to faith/life.

That we may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

The verses cant have any interpretation, we confess or deny them as they are told in righteousness. ( to deny them is to deny holiness/righteousness.)


Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Colossians 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

 

[electedbyhim]

I will answer a different way then.


"Are saying the regenerate do not sin at all?

They are completely sanctified now?"



Complete:

Knit together in love ( believers together) which is all riches, as it is full assurance of understanding, which is acknowledgement of the mystery of God, of the Father and of Christ. ( an example of this is, that they who commit adultery, lack that understanding/faith...Proverbs 6:32 But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.)


Colossians 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;


Now we receive Christ ( in understanding what holiness is, that it is belief in Him) they walk in Him accordingly, which is to be rooted and built up in Him, established in the faith ( in Him rising from the dead)

We understand to not hear the spoilers, of their vain deceit, because in Christ dwells all the fulness of God, and we are COMPLETE IN HIM, in Him we are circumcised by HIs circumcision made without hands, ( the Spirit of Christ) and through faith ( in the Spirit) the body of the sins of the flesh is PUT OFF. ( by the circumcision of Christ.)

If we do not confess this, we deny it, that we are buried with Christ in baptism, to be also risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God. ( God raising Him from the dead to rise us with HIm from sin and death/unbelief, to faith/life.

That we may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

The verses cant have any interpretation, we confess or deny them as they are told in righteousness. ( to deny them is to deny holiness/righteousness.)


Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Colossians 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

So Christians do not fall into sin?

 

[Tenchi]

In Jesus' Christ's kingdom and body on earth, there is no separation bewteen His salvation and sanctification, even as there is none between His faith and works. However, there is a growing consecration to His service and ministry, that is after being saved and sanctified by His new birth of the Spirit.

1 Cor
{6:9} Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind... {6:11} And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans
{2:28} For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: {2:29} But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

??? Where is the "consecration" for which you've used these verses as supporting ground? Neither of them mention "consecration." What do you mean by "consecration," anyway? How does it differ from progressive sanctification? When the word "consecrated" is used in Hebrews 10:20, it means "dedicated to," as the showbread in the temple that David ate had been consecrated to God (Matthew 12:3-4), or as Samuel was by his mother (1 Samuel 1:11, 22).

I agree that there is no separation between salvation and sanctification, the former requiring the latter, in fact. There is no one who is saved who has not, in Christ, also been wholly sanctified. (1 Corinthians 1:2, 30)

God's sanctification from the lust and sins of the world, is at once even as by circumcision of the Spirit of Christ.

Hebrews
{4:12} For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The verse you've used here doesn't actually speak to the progressive, practical sanctification of the born-again person, but to the nature, and effect, of God's word. The verse describes the penetrating power of Scripture that reveals the "thoughts and intents of the heart"; it isn't saying anything about the believer's sanctification.

The sanctification of Christ from the old life without God, is the circumcision of Christ and instant operation of the Spirit, made for them that repent of all their sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake.

2 Cor
{5:17} Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. {5:18} And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ.

If you want to speak of the spiritually "circumcising" effect of salvation, I would suggest the following passage:

Colossians 2:9-13
9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

When any man obeys the commandment of God to all men everywhere, to repent of all our sins and trespasses for Jesus's sake, then His NT promise of being created a new creature in Christ Jesus, is immediately kept by the Spirit with a whole new heart and life, that is now all of God, and none of the devil.

It isn't changing their mind about (repenting of) their sin that saves lost people but their trusting in Christ as Savior and yielding to him as Lord.

Romans 10:9-11
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in him will not be disappointed."

Romans 12:1
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

I'm not sure what you mean by "a whole new heart and life, that is now all of God" since Scripture is clear that "new creatures in Christ" still sin, only over time growing mature and holy in their daily, mundane condition. They have been made "new creatures in Christ," yes, but this doesn't mean they instantly and perfectly cease from all sin. See 1 Corinthians 3, 5, 6,11, Galatians 3-5, Romans 6-8, 14, Revelation 2-3, etc.

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

The progressive sanctification of sinful man's faith, with only half hearted gradual repentance at one's own will of convenience, is not the pure religion of Jesus' righteous faith, that is freely given to them that repent by commandment with a whole heart.

Jerem
{3:9} And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. {3:10} And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Ezek
{18:30} Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn [yourselves] from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

It's...interesting that in making a case for your assertion here you resort to the Old Covenant relationship between Jehovah and Israel in order to do so. The NT Christian stands in a "new and living way" before God, consecrated through Christ (Hebrews 10:19-22), always and forever accepted by God because of him (Ephesians 1:1-13; Galatians 2:20; Colossians 3:1-4, Hebrews 13:5; Romans 8:31-39, etc.). Though they wander into the wilderness of sin, the born-again person remains, nonetheless, a sheep of the Good Shepherd, who pursues his own when they wander off and brings them safely back to the sheepfold. Nothing and no one can "pluck them out of his hand" (John 10:27-28), redeemed as they are by him, and only by him (John 14:6; Acts 4:12; Titus 3:5; Ephesians 2:1-10, etc.).

Who decides what is "half-hearted repentance"? Where in God's word is half-hearted repentance clearly defined? Where in Scripture are the gradations of repentance clearly laid out so that one can know where on the spectrum between no repentance and full repentance one stands? The truth is, no one can say, "This is full and complete repentance!" because no one actually knows what such repentance looks like. At best, they can believe they've attained to such repentance, but, again, against what clear, precise, objective standard can they judge this? No such standard is given in God's word. Nowhere in the Bible do we read a comprehensive, exact description of full repentance. As a result, I get very wary of those who want to urge others to such a thing, knowing that they don't themselves actually know what they're talking about.

We are to repent, yes, but doing so is necessarily a progressive business, a person discovering new things as they walk with God about which they must change their minds, their thinking (i.e. repent). Repentance, then, is a lifelong thing, not a once-for-all in a single instant thing that one does. And our repentance in relation to the Gospel doesn't save us; it only brings us to the one who can save us: Jesus. He is our Savior, doing his saving work in response to our repentance, faith, confession of sin, and submission to him. All we can do is receive from him his salvation; we can do nothing to contribute even one iota to Christ's salvation of us. It is a gift we receive, not something we in any way earn.

And so, while there is no progressively diminishing 'gap' between being wholly converted, circumcised, and sanctified in Christ Jesus, there is an increasing call to consecration in His service.

1 Tim
{4:13} Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. {4:14} Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. {4:15} Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

2 Tim
{2:15} Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1 Cor
{16:15} I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and [that] they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

I don't know that God's "call" to a holy, Christ-centered life increases over time. Instead, we simply increasingly fulfill God's call to this sort of life as we grow in our understanding of what it is to walk in fellowship with God (and how) every day.

Ephesians 4:13-16
13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.
14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;
15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,
16 from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

 

[gordon777]

It isn't changing their mind about (REPENTING OF) their sin that saves lost people but their trusting in Christ as Savior and yielding to him as Lord.

Romans 10:9-11
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in him will not be disappointed."

Romans 12:1
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

"When any man obeys the commandment of God to all men everywhere, to repent of all our sins and trespasses for Jesus's sake"



Is it or is it not repentance required by the Lord...


Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.



Lets go see what repentance is. It is not as Israel who TURNED unto God falsely, not with their whole heart.

It is to rend their heart, and then TURN to the Lord their God, as He is GRACIOUS, and merciful, of great kindness to repent Himself of evil towards them...



Jeremiah 3:10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah HATH NOT TURNED UNTO ME WITH HER WHOLE HEART, but feignedly, saith the Lord.

Joel 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and TURN UNTO THE LORD YOUR GOD: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.



Jesus in the gospel even shows how repentance is required after they HEAR HIS PREACHING, woe to the ones who did not repent, as Tyre and Sidon WOULOD HAVE REPENTED, in SACKCLOTH AND ASHES.

Apostle Paul showed ALL, ( who said how to be saved by believing in your HEART, unto righteousness. Romans 10.) that they SHOULD REPENT, and TURN TO GOD, and do works right for repentance.


Matthew 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and TURN TO GOD, and do works meet for repentance.

I'm not sure what you mean by "a whole new heart and life, that is now all of God" since Scripture is clear that "new creatures in Christ" still sin, only over time growing mature and holy in their daily, mundane condition. They have been made "new creatures in Christ," yes, but this doesn't mean they instantly and perfectly cease from all sin. See 1 Corinthians 3, 5, 6,11, Galatians 3-5, Romans 6-8, 14, Revelation 2-3, etc.

Scripture is clear that carnal, has envying, strife, division.

Scripture is clear, if we do not know we are the temple of God, that the Spirit of God dwells in us, if any man defiles the temple of God, God shall destroy, for the temple of God is holy, which temple we are.


1 Corinthians 3:And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.



What to mean by a whole new heart and life ?

To follow righteousness ( ( REMEMBER, WITH THE HEART MAN BELIEVES UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS. Romans 10.) faith, charity, with them that call in the Lord WITH A PURE HEART.

To let every one naming the name of Christ to DEPART FROM INIQUITY. ( sin)

Some are to HONOUR, some are to DISHONOUR. If a man purges himself ( with the heart man believes unto RIGHTEOUSNESS) from these, he SHALL BE A VESSEL ( temple) unto HONOUR, SANCTIFIED ( SANCTIFICATION IS DESCRIBED IN REALITY, NOT IN FANTASY) and WORTHY FOR THE MASTERS USE, ( in His temple) PREPARED UNTO EVERY GOOD WORK.


2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

 

[gordon777]

Who decides what is "half-hearted repentance"? Where in God's word is half-hearted repentance clearly defined? Where in Scripture are the gradations of repentance clearly laid out so that one can know where on the spectrum between no repentance and full repentance one stands? The truth is, no one can say, "This is full and complete repentance!" because no one actually knows what such repentance looks like. At best, they can believe they've attained to such repentance, but, again, against what clear, precise, objective standard can they judge this? No such standard is given in God's word. Nowhere in the Bible do we read a comprehensive, exact description of full repentance. As a result, I get very wary of those who want to urge others to such a thing, knowing that they don't themselves actually know what they're talking about.

We are to repent, yes, but doing so is necessarily a progressive business, a person discovering new things as they walk with God about which they must change their minds, their thinking (i.e. repent). Repentance, then, is a lifelong thing, not a once-for-all in a single instant thing that one does. And our repentance in relation to the Gospel doesn't save us; it only brings us to the one who can save us: Jesus. He is our Savior, doing his saving work in response to our repentance, faith, confession of sin, and submission to him. All we can do is receive from him his salvation; we can do nothing to contribute even one iota to Christ's salvation of us. It is a gift we receive, not something we in any way earn.

I gave scripture for what true repentance is, it is hardly correct to dispute it and think we cant know what repentance looks like. ( you can go on disputing if you prefer, as you have for many many years, but the answer is understood, it wont be overturned, for we turn to God with our whole heart, and not as Israel, feignedly, as all is clearly testified, even for yourself.

Repentance is from darkness to light, what further repentance is required if you have done so. ( to be children of light is to believe in light, while you have light. John 12:36/the true light is now shining.)..


Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

I don't know that God's "call" to a holy, Christ-centered life increases over time. Instead, we simply increasingly fulfill God's call to this sort of life as we grow in our understanding of what it is to walk in fellowship with God (and how) every day.

Ephesians 4:13-16

The unity of the faith the knowledge of the Son of an is described, have a look..


Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


2 Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness CHARITY.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But HE THAT LACKETH THESDE THINGS IS BLIND, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to MAKE YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE: for if ye DO THESE THING ye shall never fall:

 

[Tenchi]

"When any man obeys the commandment of God to all men everywhere, to repent of all our sins and trespasses for Jesus's sake"



Is it or is it not repentance required by the Lord...

I don't know why you bother replying to posts. It appears you never actually read and understand them.

At no point in my post did I say the Lord didn't require repentance. So, then, why are you asking this question? In the part of my post that you quoted and responded to above, I said only that repentance does not save anyone, not that repentance isn't a necessary part of a person's approach to Christ for salvation. Again, try sometime actually reading and understanding what I've written.

Lets go see what repentance is. It is not as Israel who TURNED unto God falsely, not with their whole heart.

Obviously.

It is to rend their heart, and then TURN to the Lord their God, as He is GRACIOUS, and merciful, of great kindness to repent Himself of evil towards them...



Jeremiah 3:10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah HATH NOT TURNED UNTO ME WITH HER WHOLE HEART, but feignedly, saith the Lord.

Joel 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and TURN UNTO THE LORD YOUR GOD: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.

Where does Joel 2:13 say that repentance is rending one's heart and garments and turning to the Lord? Nowhere. Instead, it is describing the effects of repentance, of changing one's mind about having forsaken God and turned to sin, and, as a result, returning to Him in sorrow over one's rebellion and sin. Before one turns to God this way, though, one must first understand and believe that one has sinned grievously against God and that turning to Him is necessary. But this would mean one must change their thinking about - repent of - their departure from God and the nature of their sinful conduct.

Jesus in the gospel even shows how repentance is required after they HEAR HIS PREACHING, woe to the ones who did not repent, as Tyre and Sidon WOULOD HAVE REPENTED, in SACKCLOTH AND ASHES.

Apostle Paul showed ALL, ( who said how to be saved by believing in your HEART, unto righteousness. Romans 10.) that they SHOULD REPENT, and TURN TO GOD, and do works right for repentance.


Matthew 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and TURN TO GOD, and do works meet for repentance.

All of this is entirely unnecessary to point out since I never wrote that repentance wasn't a part of coming to Christ for salvation. Because you appear to knee-jerk react to the posts of others, rarely actually understanding what they have written, you often go off like you do here, writing on matters that are many times entirely off-point as far as the posts you're replying to are concerned. Why do you do this? Do you have reading/comprehension disabilities?

Scripture is clear that carnal, has envying, strife, division.

Yes, and? I never wrote that carnality was not clear about it causing envy, strife and division. So, why make this point, then?

Scripture is clear, if we do not know we are the temple of God, that the Spirit of God dwells in us, if any man defiles the temple of God, God shall destroy, for the temple of God is holy, which temple we are.


1 Corinthians 3:And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

You don't understand Scripture any better than you do the posts of others, it seems.

What does Paul indicate in verse 1? That, though carnal, his readers are STILL "in Christ." He calls these carnal babes in Christ "brethren," too. And then, throughout chapter 3, Paul calls these carnal believers "God's field and building," God's temple, and says that they are Christ's (vs. 9, 16, 23). So, then, what does Paul mean when he wrote that one who "defiles God's temple, God will destroy"? Obviously, he is not speaking of the believer's adoption into God's family, but of their physical body. If sin was able to eject the carnal Christians in Corinth from their position in Christ, Paul would not have confirmed repeatedly that, sinful as they were, the Corinthian believers were STILL in Christ. It stands to reason, then, that God destroys only the body of those who willfully and persistently defile His temple. This is confirmed by what Paul wrote in the chapter:

1 Corinthians 3:14-15
14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

What to mean by a whole new heart and life ?

To follow righteousness ( ( REMEMBER, WITH THE HEART MAN BELIEVES UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS. Romans 10.) faith, charity, with them that call in the Lord WITH A PURE HEART.

To let every one naming the name of Christ to DEPART FROM INIQUITY. ( sin)

Some are to HONOUR, some are to DISHONOUR. If a man purges himself ( with the heart man believes unto RIGHTEOUSNESS) from these, he SHALL BE A VESSEL ( temple) unto HONOUR, SANCTIFIED ( SANCTIFICATION IS DESCRIBED IN REALITY, NOT IN FANTASY) and WORTHY FOR THE MASTERS USE, ( in His temple) PREPARED UNTO EVERY GOOD WORK.

Yes, and? Of course those who are God's children ought to move more and more into a holy life. No one has suggested otherwise.

I gave scripture for what true repentance is, it is hardly correct to dispute it and think we cant know what repentance looks like.

You haven't given anything like a full, precise, biblical description of what perfect, complete repentance is. Instead, you offered a verse from Joel about the effects of repentance. In doing so, you've demonstrated how little you understand what repentance is.

for we turn to God with our whole heart,

What does this mean? What marks that you've actually turned to God with your whole heart? Do you know? I very much doubt it.

Repentance is from darkness to light, what further repentance is required if you have done so.

Obviously. But what does this repentance look like when it is perfectly complete? What is half-hearted repentance? Not the effects of such repentance but half-hearted repentance itself. How do you know when you're only half repented rather than, say, three-quarters repentant, or fully repentant?

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

Again, what is it exactly to "turn from darkness to light"? What precise, biblical definition can you offer by which to assess whether or not one has fully turned?

Godly repentance produces sorrow over sin, but this sorrow is the effect of repentance, not repentance itself. What does the repentance that produces godly sorrow look like exactly? You've not given yet any clear, biblical explanation.

So, go back, @gordon7777, and try to actually understand what I've written in my earlier post and then make your response.

 

[gordon777]

You don't understand Scripture any better than you do the posts of others, it seems.

What does Paul indicate in verse 1? That, though carnal, his readers are STILL "in Christ." He calls these carnal babes in Christ "brethren," too. And then, throughout chapter 3, Paul calls these carnal believers "God's field and building," God's temple, and says that they are Christ's (vs. 9, 16, 23). So, then, what does Paul mean when he wrote that one who "defiles God's temple, God will destroy"? Obviously, he is not speaking of the believer's adoption into God's family, but of their physical body. If sin was able to eject the carnal Christians in Corinth from their position in Christ, Paul would not have confirmed repeatedly that, sinful as they were, the Corinthian believers were STILL in Christ. It stands to reason, then, that God destroys only the body of those who willfully and persistently defile His temple. This is confirmed by what Paul wrote in the chapter:

1 Corinthians 3:14-15
14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

I don't need to understand the posts of anyone, if that is a saving grace, you see yourself as the top, congratulations.

But again you make a persons answer very easy, they just ignore your post understanding corrections, and focus on the small bit you are willing to talk about of scripture.

What does Paul indicate in verse 1 of 1 Corinthians 3 ?

Paul cannot indicate anything, and that is the POINT, laid out/testified by Paul in the previous chapter.

I will go through it, with you

Look at what has not entered into the hearts of those who love God, that their eyes have not seen, nor their ears heard, of what God has revealed, unto us ( the apostle Paul preaching) by the Spirit, the Spirit searching ( understanding) all the deep things of God.

The things of God no man knows, but the Spirit of God.

Paul is preaching how he has received the Spirit which is of God, to KNOW the things that are freely given by God. ( the free gift of grace/belief in Christ)

These things apostle Paul is SPEAKING, what the Holy Ghost teaches, comparing Spiritual with Spiritual. ( not carnal with carnal)

Paul indicates the natural man ( those not understanding in the Spirit) do not receive ( UNDERSTAND) the things of the Spirit of God, for they are FOOLISHNESS UNTO HIM, NEITHER CAN HE KNOW THEM, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED.


1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.



Paul now is answering why he cant speak as unto them as Spiritual. ( as they have not received the Spirit/no understanding in the Spirit, the things of God are Spiritually discerned.)



1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.


By grace Paul is the wise master builder, laying the foundation, ( the testimony of Christ) and the Corinthians build ( their faith) on there. They are exhorted to be careful how they build. ( at the moment they are not understanding in the Spirit, and understand as men/the things of men.




1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.




Do men take heed how they build, by your HIGHLIGHTING of them being SAVED ?

Or men take HEED, how they build, by highlighting what Paul FIRST reveals, of WHAT ACTUALLY is placed on that FOUNDATION ?

Gold, silver, precious stones.

Wood, hay, stubble.

(There are vessels of gold and silver, also of wood and earth, some to honour, and some to dishonour. )


1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

2 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.


Paul calling people babes in Christ, brothers, Gods field and building, is doing right, because this is the teaching of Christ to the multitude in Israel, we are all brothers, and one is our Master...


The house to Israel was left empty, is the conclusion in the same chapter, as the people had the same situation that Paul described, there is no understanding the things of God but by the Spirit of God.


Matthew 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.



So far, the name Paul calls people does not mean Paul is saying they are saved, now does your highlighting the word saved, mean they are saved. ( is that not merely misdirection ?)

But their lack of understanding indicates no Spirit of God to understand with.

Paul directing all towards the good way to build ( faith) on Christ, ( the foundation) has two types mentioned by him. ( they are understood elsewhere by being to honour, or to dishonour.)

The same Corinthians unaware of the Spirit, ( being carnal) do not believe ( fear) that all people are the temple of God and all people have the Spirit of God dwell in them. (being called to God, and all are brothers, one is our Master.)

If that temple of God is defiled, ( by not fearing God) is destruction the physical body, or MORE ?

When Paul calls people brothers, babes in Christ, is that respect binding, does it mean they are considered saved, or that is forgetting the words in the Epistle to the Romans, how there is NO RESPECT OF PERSONS, how God will RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS ?

Just as Paul told to the Corinthians to TAKE HEED HOW THEY BUILD UPON, and in 2 Timothy this is addressed as vessel to honour and some to dishonour, ( some gold, some wood.) Romans ALSO shows in patient continuing in well doing seek for honour and eternal life.

Those who do not obey the truth ( Spiritually discerned) obey ( being CARNAL) unrighteousness, indignation and wrath. ( as the Corinthians having among them envying, and strife, and divisions.)

Tribulation is upon EVERY SOUL of man that does EVIL.

Glory, honour and peace to EVERY MAN that works GOOD.



Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

 

[gordon777]

If sin was expected to be in the brothers, in those, who are in Christ, why would so much warning be given, for them to NOT BE THAT WAY.

It is not so they gradually practise to be better, it is as just old in Romans, they are seeking destruction, not of their physical body, but of their body and then soul in hell.


Because the term brother is understood to be a commendation, here in Galatians it is mentioned, but again as a way to appeal to people.

The Galatians are testified how all is done correctly by loving your neighbour as yourself.

Walking in the Spirit is walking in love, ( to love your neighbour as yourself) and is the Spirit against the flesh. ( the flesh has envy, strife.)

The works of the flesh, adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness hatred, emulations, wrath, strife, heresies, envy, drunkenness, revelry, Pal has constantly testified, and affirmed, they who do those things do NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. ( they who defile the temple of God, God will destroy.)...


Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Galatians 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.



Again as you seem to consider Paul saying brothers somehow is related with being saved, James also uses the term, to AGAIN, attempt to show the wrong in people. ( appeal to/correct them)

The wise among them, would show meekness, not bitter envying and strife, as that is described as confusion, every evil work. ( that is what CARNAL IS, IT IS DEVLISH.)

The Corinthians were witnessed how they had no understanding the things of God but by ( belief of) the Spirit of God. That wisdom from God ( above) is pure, peaceful, gentle, ( the opposite to envy and strife as the Corinthians were testified to be.) full of mercy and good fruits. ( seeking for eternal life, in patient continuing of good) no hypocrisy. ( to defile the temple of God is HYPOCRISY.)....


James 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

James 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

 

[gordon777]

So to continue the same strife, debate, contention, as the Corinthians are testified to be trapped in, would not be the way to show how to recover from that. ( recover from carnal/the flesh/walking as men)

The way to improve the situation is not to consider, OK I'm saved now, but to do as taught, by love to serve one another.

If the members of the forum want to pick up where the Corinthians left off, ( in strife/debate) it is the worst thing possible, not the best answer.


The direction/answer Paul has revealed is to overcome evil with good, not with more of the SAME evil.

To love one another, your neighbour as yourself, is all fulfilled. Nothing more to say, nothing more to add. Forum has been accomplished/answered.

But the antichrist is to be overcome, which speaks of the world, ( the wisdom that is earthy, devilish, in strife and envy, and is against what is of God. ( Jesus Christ who overcame this world through faith/love to lay HIs life down for all/no strife, no confusion and every evil work. We then believe in HIs love and instead of quarrels, we also lay our lives down for them.)



1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

 

[gordon777]

Everyone can understand and SEE, that we do not have another debating with the apostle Paul, we have the testimony of Christ, given by him, and also he walks this way too, without strife, and envy, but peaceably exhorts the truth, and also does those deeds he speaks of, the good, labouring night and day, in afflictions, necessities, having no certain dwelling place, persecutions, and not valuing his life, giving it in love, and not exalted, but speaking and walking in meekness.

So we put off wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communications, on top of mortifying our body, from fornication, uncleanness, covetousness. We do not continue ( as carnal/men) to lie to one another, as we PUT OFF THE OLD MAN WITH HIS DEEDS.

Now we believe that Christ is all and in all, we put on as the ELECT OF GOD, holiness, mercies, kindness, humbleness, meekness, long suffering, forgave quarrels, not engage in them, as Christ forgave us. ( HIs perfect love against all hatred, on the cross.) and above all we PUT ON THAT CHARITY, THE BOND PF PERFECTNESS...


Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

 

[gordon777]

Again this is not to be debated, it is to be embraced.

Love, peace, long suffering, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. ( these are the fulfilling of the law/all the law is fulfilled to love your neighbour as yourself)

A NEW CREATURE. ( NOT THE OLD IN STRIFE AND ENVY and to NOT CRUCIFY THE FLESH WITH THE AFFECTIONS AND LUSTS/SIN.)

Paul prays that God would give THIS REVEALATION TO US, the wisdom ( peaceful without hypocrisy.)

The building grows together for God to inhabit through the Spirit. ( not one that is defiled.)

Paul prays for God to grant us HIs Spirit ( we understand only by the Spirit the things of God, not as CARNAL.) to be rooted and grounded in love through faith. ( by love we serve one another, NOT IN STRIFE ENVY AND DEBATE) This is the FULNESS OF GOD. ( the emptiness of man is to not believe, but to consider we are saved in strife and envy.)

The fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth, the apostle was proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. ( the sins the unfruitful workers of darkness do is shameful.)


Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Ephesians 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

 

[JLB]

In Jesus' Christ's kingdom and body on earth, there is no separation bewteen His salvation and sanctification, even as there is none between His faith and works. However, there is a growing consecration to His service and ministry, that is after being saved and sanctified by His new birth of the Spirit.

1 Cor
{6:9} Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind... {6:11} And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans
{2:28} For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: {2:29} But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

God's sanctification from the lust and sins of the world, is at once even as by circumcision of the Spirit of Christ.

Hebrews
{4:12} For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The sanctification of Christ from the old life without God, is the circumcision of Christ and instant operation of the Spirit, made for them that repent of all their sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake.

2 Cor
{5:17} Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. {5:18} And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ.

When any man obeys the commandment of God to all men everywhere, to repent of all our sins and trespasses for Jesus's sake, then His NT promise of being created a new creature in Christ Jesus, is immediately kept by the Spirit with a whole new heart and life, that is now all of God, and none of the devil.

The progressive sanctification of sinful man's faith, with only half hearted gradual repentance at one's own will of convenience, is not the pure religion of Jesus' righteous faith, that is freely given to them that repent by commandment with a whole heart.

Jerem
{3:9} And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. {3:10} And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Ezek
{18:30} Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn [yourselves] from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

And so, while there is no progressively diminishing 'gap' between being wholly converted, circumcised, and sanctified in Christ Jesus, there is an increasing call to consecration in His service.

1 Tim
{4:13} Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. {4:14} Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. {4:15} Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

2 Tim
{2:15} Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1 Cor
{16:15} I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and [that] they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1


But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:20-21

• Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master,

Initial sanctification when we are regenerated, is by the Lord.

Afterward, we are called to cleanse ourselves...

We live in an evil world and must learn to be thoroughly consecrated to the Lord and to cleanse ourselves by the Spirit.

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides 1 Peter 1:22-23






JLB

 

[Tenchi]

I don't need to understand the posts of anyone

Well, this explains a lot. I figured this was the case, but it's...confirming to hear you say so. You're not actually trying to engage with other posters constructively; you're just using their posts as a springboard to say whatever it is you want to say. Why not just make your own threads, then? That way, you won't intrude pointlessly into other threads and exchanges between folks about which you don't actually give a rip.

But again you make a persons answer very easy, they just ignore your post understanding corrections, and focus on the small bit you are willing to talk about of scripture.

This is just to admit that you won't consider any other view than your own. It's been obvious that this has been your attitude and explains why you don't actually respond to what people write except in the most off-point and peculiar ways. You aren't looking for an exchange of ideas but a soapbox.

What does Paul indicate in verse 1 of 1 Corinthians 3 ?

Paul cannot indicate anything, and that is the POINT, laid out/testified by Paul in the previous chapter.

I will go through it, with you

There's not much point, really, since in these remarks you reveal you don't understand Paul words, nor my own.

Look at what has not entered into the hearts of those who love God, that their eyes have not seen, nor their ears heard, of what God has revealed, unto us ( the apostle Paul preaching) by the Spirit, the Spirit searching ( understanding) all the deep things of God.

The things of God no man knows, but the Spirit of God.

Do you seriously believe this sort of pious bloviating has any value to anyone? I sure don't.

Paul is preaching how he has received the Spirit which is of God, to KNOW the things that are freely given by God. ( the free gift of grace/belief in Christ)

These things apostle Paul is SPEAKING, what the Holy Ghost teaches, comparing Spiritual with Spiritual. ( not carnal with carnal)

Paul indicates the natural man ( those not understanding in the Spirit) do not receive ( UNDERSTAND) the things of the Spirit of God, for they are FOOLISHNESS UNTO HIM, NEITHER CAN HE KNOW THEM, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED.


1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.



Paul now is answering why he cant speak as unto them as Spiritual. ( as they have not received the Spirit/no understanding in the Spirit, the things of God are Spiritually discerned.)



1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.


By grace Paul is the wise master builder, laying the foundation, ( the testimony of Christ) and the Corinthians build ( their faith) on there. They are exhorted to be careful how they build. ( at the moment they are not understanding in the Spirit, and understand as men/the things of men.

You see, when you go on as you have here, ignoring what I wrote, explaining whatever suits you regardless of how off-point it is, I have no incentive to pay any attention to it. You aren't actually engaging with my comments, so why do you think I'd engage with yours? I'm just going to follow your own strategy and ignore everything you've written here.

Do men take heed how they build, by your HIGHLIGHTING of them being SAVED ?

Or men take HEED, how they build, by highlighting what Paul FIRST reveals, of WHAT ACTUALLY is placed on that FOUNDATION ?

Gold, silver, precious stones.

Wood, hay, stubble.

Are you going to actually address my points, or continue to ramble on about who-knows-what? Frankly, all this off-point stuff seems to me like obfuscation, a verbose deflection from the fact that you can't actually deal directly with the things I've written.

If the "brethren" and "babes in Christ" to whom Paul wrote what he did in chapter 3 were incapable, being carnal, of understanding what he wrote, why, then, did he write to them, addressing the carnal believers particularly? If they, by virtue of their carnality, were deaf and blind to his words, there was no point in writing to them. But, obviously, Paul didn't think this, hence his words to those "carnal babes in Christ" who were also "brethren," and "God's field and building," and who "belonged to Christ."

Paul calling people babes in Christ, brothers, Gods field and building, is doing right, because this is the teaching of Christ to the multitude in Israel, we are all brothers, and one is our Master...

No one has said what Paul called the sinning Corinthian Christians wasn't right. If you'd just read and understand the posts of others, you'd not have to write these useless remarks.

The house to Israel was left empty, is the conclusion in the same chapter, as the people had the same situation that Paul described, there is no understanding the things of God but by the Spirit of God.

??? I don't read anywhere in the chapter that "the house of Israel is left empty."

And Paul specifically wrote that the "carnal babes in Christ" of verse 1 (who have been made so by the indwelling Holy Spirit - Romans 8:9) were "the temples of God" (vs. 16) and thus capable of hearing and acting on what Paul had written to them. Which is why, obviously, he was writing to them.

So far, the name Paul calls people does not mean Paul is saying they are saved,

What a lot of silliness. Repeatedly in chapter 3, Paul confirms that those to whom he is writing are saved. As I've pointed out from the chapter, quoting Paul's own words, the "brethren" and "carnal babes in Christ" of verse 1 were also described by Paul as "God's field and building" (vs. 9), "God's temple" (vs. 16), and "belong to Christ" (vs. 23). It's a bald-faced denial of plain fact to say, then, that Paul didn't mean to say that the "carnal babes IN CHRIST" were not saved. One cannot be "in Christ" and "God's temple," and "belong to Christ" and "brethren" and not be saved. This is so obvious I feel silly having to point this out to you.

It is a testament to the great danger of taking up falsehood that you must deny the plain and repeated declaration of Scripture in order to do so. Yikes.

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

Paul directing all towards the good way to build ( faith) on Christ, ( the foundation) has two types mentioned by him. ( they are understood elsewhere by being to honour, or to dishonour.)

Here, too, you confuse things. In 1 Corinthians 3:10-15, Paul is talking about what Christians build upon the foundation of Christ in their living as born-again people. The "wood, hay and stubble" are figurative of works, not people.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

In 2 Timothy 2:20-21, however, Paul is speaking of people as "vessels," not their works.

2 Timothy 2:20-21 (NASB)
20 Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor.
21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

These two passages, then, are speaking of two different things, not the same thing, and so your using them as complementary, as though they are addressing the same thing, is just obviously wrong.

These kinds of simple but glaring mistakes in your handling of God's word plague everything you write. You desperately need someone to teach you about God's word and how to "rightly divide" it.

If that temple of God is defiled, ( by not fearing God) is destruction the physical body, or MORE ?

Not more; only the body, as the chapter clearly indicates.

Those who do not obey the truth ( Spiritually discerned) obey ( being CARNAL) unrighteousness, indignation and wrath. ( as the Corinthians having among them envying, and strife, and divisions.)

Tribulation is upon EVERY SOUL of man that does EVIL.

Glory, honour and peace to EVERY MAN that works GOOD.

Romans 2:3-11
3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?

Here's the person particularly in view in Paul's remarks in this passage: the judgmental hypocrite. He warns such a person that they will not escape God's judgment.

4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

So, Paul is warning what sort of person here? A born-again believer? No, Paul addresses the person he's described thus far in the chapter, not as "brother," or "carnal babe in Christ," or "God's temple," as he does the Corinthian believers, but only as "O man."

This man has taken lightly God's forbearance and kindness, in stubbornness and unrepentance storing up God's wrath upon himself. Such a person Paul has not identified as a fellow believer, as he did of those he had in view in his remarks in 1 Corinthians 3.

6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God.

Where is there in this bit any mention of the Gospel, of Christ, and of trusting in him as Savior and Lord? There is none. Instead, there is a very Old Testament state-of-affairs outlined here. This is confirmed by what Paul wrote next:

Romans 2:12-13
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

See? Paul is talking about the Old Covenant, law-centered circumstance of the past. Under that circumstance, Paul says here, each is judged strictly in accord with their fulfillment of God's law. This doesn't apply, though, to those under the New Covenant, who are part of God's family, not by virtue of their good works (Ephesians 2:8-9: Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9), but by their trust in the atoning work of Christ on the cross of Calvary on their behalf.

Here, too, then, you've misused God's word, joining it wrongly to other passages that are addressing other things entirely.

If sin was expected to be in the brothers, in those, who are in Christ, why would so much warning be given, for them to NOT BE THAT WAY.

Because the born-again person who sins cannot enjoy fellowship with God. Though they are forever God's child, though they are irreversibly related to Him as His adopted son or daughter, like the Prodigal, their sin keeps them from enjoying intimate communion with their Heavenly Father. It is this fellowship with God, though, that is the point of being reconciled to Him.

2 Corinthians 13:14
14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

1 John 1:3
3 ...and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.

Revelation 3:20
20 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

I haven't time to write more at the moment. Really, though, there's not much point in responding further to your posts since they are all of them fouled by bad handling of Scripture.