Salvation and sanctification is now complete in Christ: Consecration then follows

[gordon777]

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides 1 Peter 1:22-23

The mistake of the Galatians was to be bewitched, to not obey the truth. ( to continue in strife, envy and not in love instead...


Galatians 3:O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?


The truth is to love, and that is by the same sanctification that begins, and continues, it would make no sense to be anything different.


Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

 

[gordon777]

Well, this explains a lot. I figured this was the case, but it's...confirming to hear you say so. You're not actually trying to engage with other posters constructively; you're just using their posts as a springboard to say whatever it is you want to say. Why not just make your own threads, then? That way, you won't intrude pointlessly into other threads and exchanges between folks about which you don't actually give a rip.



This is just to admit that you won't consider any other view than your own. It's been obvious that this has been your attitude and explains why you don't actually respond to what people write except in the most off-point and peculiar ways. You aren't looking for an exchange of ideas but a soapbox.



There's not much point, really, since in these remarks you reveal you don't understand Paul words, nor my own.



Do you seriously believe this sort of pious bloviating has any value to anyone? I sure don't.



You see, when you go on as you have here, ignoring what I wrote, explaining whatever suits you regardless of how off-point it is, I have no incentive to pay any attention to it. You aren't actually engaging with my comments, so why do you think I'd engage with yours? I'm just going to follow your own strategy and ignore everything you've written here.



Are you going to actually address my points, or continue to ramble on about who-knows-what? Frankly, all this off-point stuff seems to me like obfuscation, a verbose deflection from the fact that you can't actually deal directly with the things I've written.

If the "brethren" and "babes in Christ" to whom Paul wrote what he did in chapter 3 were incapable, being carnal, of understanding what he wrote, why, then, did he write to them, addressing the carnal believers particularly? If they, by virtue of their carnality, were deaf and blind to his words, there was no point in writing to them. But, obviously, Paul didn't think this, hence his words to those "carnal babes in Christ" who were also "brethren," and "God's field and building," and who "belonged to Christ."



No one has said what Paul called the sinning Corinthian Christians wasn't right. If you'd just read and understand the posts of others, you'd not have to write these useless remarks.



??? I don't read anywhere in the chapter that "the house of Israel is left empty."

And Paul specifically wrote that the "carnal babes in Christ" of verse 1 (who have been made so by the indwelling Holy Spirit - Romans 8:9) were "the temples of God" (vs. 16) and thus capable of hearing and acting on what Paul had written to them. Which is why, obviously, he was writing to them.



What a lot of silliness. Repeatedly in chapter 3, Paul confirms that those to whom he is writing are saved. As I've pointed out from the chapter, quoting Paul's own words, the "brethren" and "carnal babes in Christ" of verse 1 were also described by Paul as "God's field and building" (vs. 9), "God's temple" (vs. 16), and "belong to Christ" (vs. 23). It's a bald-faced denial of plain fact to say, then, that Paul didn't mean to say that the "carnal babes IN CHRIST" were not saved. One cannot be "in Christ" and "God's temple," and "belong to Christ" and "brethren" and not be saved. This is so obvious I feel silly having to point this out to you.

It is a testament to the great danger of taking up falsehood that you must deny the plain and repeated declaration of Scripture in order to do so. Yikes.

Continued below.

repeating your opinion that the babes in Christ do not require the correction Paul has given them, dies not make the correction Paul has given them not be essential, to be in strife is to not be in love. its that simple.

Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

 

[gordon777]

Here, too, you confuse things. In 1 Corinthians 3:10-15, Paul is talking about what Christians build upon the foundation of Christ in their living as born-again people. The "wood, hay and stubble" are figurative of works, not people.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

In 2 Timothy 2:20-21, however, Paul is speaking of people as "vessels," not their works.

2 Timothy 2:20-21 (NASB)
20 Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor.
21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

These two passages, then, are speaking of two different things, not the same thing, and so your using them as complementary, as though they are addressing the same thing, is just obviously wrong.

The Galatians were doing incorrectly, not walking in love, being in strife, envy, and apostle Paul cant be in the same strife and envy, or would not be in a position to correct them. ( they therefore needed to be more perfected as is the whole purpose)

All is simple, do you have confusion over it.

 

[gordon777]

Romans 2:3-11
3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?

Here's the person particularly in view in Paul's remarks in this passage: the judgmental hypocrite. He warns such a person that they will not escape God's judgment.

4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

So, Paul is warning what sort of person here? A born-again believer? No, Paul addresses the person he's described thus far in the chapter, not as "brother," or "carnal babe in Christ," or "God's temple," as he does the Corinthian believers, but only as "O man."

This man has taken lightly God's forbearance and kindness, in stubbornness and unrepentance storing up God's wrath upon himself. Such a person Paul has not identified as a fellow believer, as he did of those he had in view in his remarks in 1 Corinthians 3.

6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God.

So because you say the born again is different from the non born again, that God should now respect the person of men ?

That would make no sense to Gods just judgement, that all are judged by their deeds.


Psalm 28:4 Give them according to their deeds, and according to the wickedness of their endeavours: give them after the work of their hands; render to them their desert.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Ezekiel 33:20 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.

Job 34:11 For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Peter 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

1 Peter 3:11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

3 John 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

 

[gordon777]

Because the born-again person who sins cannot enjoy fellowship with God. Though they are forever God's child, though they are irreversibly related to Him as His adopted son or daughter, like the Prodigal, their sin keeps them from enjoying intimate communion with their Heavenly Father. It is this fellowship with God, though, that is the point of being reconciled to Him.

2 Corinthians 13:14
14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

1 John 1:3
3 ...and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.

Revelation 3:20
20 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

I haven't time to write more at the moment. Really, though, there's not much point in responding further to your posts since they are all of them fouled by bad handling of Scripture.

Two errors.

First that the born again are no different than anyone else, they are given the same high standards as those not born again, or it would be perverse to say the non born again are judged by the highest standards of God and the born again are allow3d to be/do wickedness....



1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.



Second, that the born again are never seen as doing wrong, so your excuses are wrong on both accounts.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

[gordon777]

anyone can know the purpose of Paul correcting the ones in error is so they stop the error, and that is to the standard of perfection,( no sin=belief i the rising of Jesus Christ) I hope you know to try to say it cant be achieved, is to make the purpose of Paul correcting the people for God, which satan exists to do, ( doesnt he? ) as voided, and it is also in denial that Christ came in the flesh to save us from that power of satan. ( unbelief in the love and rising of Christ again from the dead.


Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.

 

[gordon777]

Born of God can do evil, and wont fail to enter eternal life, but those not born again have to first accept the tougher message they have to not defile the temple of God, but afterwards they enter a state of perpetual forgiveness, a get out of jail free card for ever.

That's a great message, who would not want to hear that!

 

[Hopeful 2]

Are saying the regenerate do not sin at all?

They are completely sanctified now?

That is correct.
The definition of sanctified that I use is...consecrated, atoned for, made clean, set aside, made holy.
All are facilitated by the blood of Christ, when it is applied to our bodies while being water baptized into Him and into His death and burial.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Born of God can do evil, and wont fail to enter eternal life, but those not born again have to first accept the tougher message they have to not defile the temple of God, but afterwards they enter a state of perpetual forgiveness, a get out of jail free card for ever.

That's a great message, who would not want to hear that!

I hope you are being sarcastic.
There is no perpetual forgiveness or get out of "hell" free card.

 

[electedbyHim]

That is correct.
The definition of sanctified that I use is...consecrated, atoned for, made clean, set aside, made holy.
All are facilitated by the blood of Christ, when it is applied to our bodies while being water baptized into Him and into His death and burial.

Nice try.

The Bible does not teach this.

I will not go down the road of your false teaching.

 

[gordon777]

I hope you are being sarcastic.
There is no perpetual forgiveness or get out of "hell" free card.

holy is not for ourself, but for others, there is no holiness, no salvation, no truth, no Spirit of truth without Gods love in deed, to lay His life down for us, all talk is words without the power of God.

Sanctification is by love, love is the last thing to talk, love began by creating, by longsuffering, by giving all there is to give, the Father giving HIs only Son, and the best that people can return, is talk=forum 101.

 

[gordon777]

is it for absolutely NOTHING, TO YOU PEOPLE, that the apostle Paul has to suffer great things for the name of Christ, and all the forum DWELLERS, can offer is to let everybody have to suffer their conversation, without seeing who they might be, or ever hearing anything they do, as we HEARD of the apostles of the Lord..

Nobody should consider the people who inhabit these forums night and day, for all years they occupied, have a good word to say, they cant possibly as they have NOTHING IN COMMON WITH THE TESTIMONY BELOW...


Galatians 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

2 Corinthians 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
6 By pureness, by knowledge, by long suffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
11 O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
12 Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
13 Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.

 

[JLB]

The mistake of the Galatians was to be bewitched, to not obey the truth. ( to continue in strife, envy and not in love instead...


Galatians 3:O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?


The truth is to love, and that is by the same sanctification that begins, and continues, it would make no sense to be anything different.


Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

Each of us must choose to cleanse ourselves as we go through life and experience various things that can defile us.


Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
2 Corinthians 7:1

 

[RBDERRICK]

Are saying the regenerate do not sin at all?

They are completely sanctified now?

Not me. God is. They're His regenerated saints, not mine.

Though I do quote His words that say so, to which you also testify by coming to the same conclusion. If you don't believe God can save His people from their sinning, then that's your unbelief, not mine.

Matthew
{1:21} And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins

Partially unsanctified sinners can certainly be generated and reformed to sin less, by their own faith alone. And they can make a better life for themselves on earth, but that's only the better homes and garden variety of sinful man's religion.

God's pure religion of wholly new regenerated sons, have repenting of all their sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake, and have recieved His promised faith, that always does God's will to please the Father.

Any unsanctified sinner; however, can become pure newborn babes of God, by just repenting of their sinning for Jesus' sake. Which is what God now commands all His enemies everywhere on earth to do.

Hebrews
{1:13} But to which of the angels said he at any times, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

 

[RBDERRICK]

is it for absolutely NOTHING, TO YOU PEOPLE, that the apostle Paul has to suffer great things for the name of Christ, and all the forum DWELLERS, can offer is to let everybody have to suffer their conversation, without seeing who they might be, or ever hearing anything they do, as we HEARD of the apostles of the Lord..

Nobody should consider the people who inhabit these forums night and day, for all years they occupied, have a good word to say, they cant possibly as they have NOTHING IN COMMON WITH THE TESTIMONY BELOW...


Galatians 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

2 Corinthians 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
6 By pureness, by knowledge, by long suffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
11 O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
12 Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
13 Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.

Thyself excluded of course.

I always love it when the righteous visit to righteously visit their righteous indignation upon other mean people, by being meaner than them all, and judging them all meaner than themselves.

I believe it's the petty churlishenss of them, that can't stand anyone disagreeing with them.

Why don't you go to the owners and righteously tell them to shut down? Or at least shut down any disagreement with you?

 

[electedbyHim]

Not me. God is. They're His regenerated saints, not mine.

Though I do quote His words that say so, to which you also testify by coming to the same conclusion. If you don't believe God can save His people from their sinning, then that's your unbelief, not mine.

Matthew
{1:21} And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins

Partially unsanctified sinners can certainly be generated and reformed to sin less, by their own faith alone. And they can make a better life for themselves on earth, but that's only the better homes and garden variety of sinful man's religion.

God's pure religion of wholly new regenerated sons, have repenting of all their sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake, and have recieved His promised faith, that always does God's will to please the Father.

Any unsanctified sinner; however, can become pure newborn babes of God, by just repenting of their sinning for Jesus' sake. Which is what God now commands all His enemies everywhere on earth to do.

Hebrews
{1:13} But to which of the angels said he at any times, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

True converted Christians do fall into sin.

Paul tells us the struggle in Romans 7, there are amny other Scriptures that tell us this.

So your on the holiness/sinless perfection kick with those other people?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Nice try.

Merriam-Webster has this...
sanctified; sanctifying:
: to set apart to a sacred purpose or to religious use : CONSECRATE
: to free from sin : PURIFY
: to impart or impute sacredness, inviolability, or respect to
: to give moral or social sanction to
: to make productive of holiness or piety

The Bible does not teach this.

It does though..."By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." (Heb 10:10)

I will not go down the road of your false teaching.

The doctrine which is according to godliness, (1 Tim 6:3), isn't false.

 

[Hopeful 2]

holy is not for ourself, but for others,

That makes no sense.
How can holiness not be for ourselves ?

there is no holiness, no salvation, no truth, no Spirit of truth without Gods love in deed, to lay His life down for us,

For sure, and thanks be to God for Him and it.

all talk is words without the power of God.

OK.

Sanctification is by love, love is the last thing to talk, love began by creating, by longsuffering, by giving all there is to give, the Father giving HIs only Son, and the best that people can return, is talk=forum 101.

Sanctification is by the blood of Christ.

 

[Hopeful 2]

is it for absolutely NOTHING, TO YOU PEOPLE, that the apostle Paul has to suffer great things for the name of Christ, and all the forum DWELLERS, can offer is to let everybody have to suffer their conversation, without seeing who they might be, or ever hearing anything they do, as we HEARD of the apostles of the Lord..

Nobody should consider the people who inhabit these forums night and day, for all years they occupied, have a good word to say, they cant possibly as they have NOTHING IN COMMON WITH THE TESTIMONY BELOW...


Galatians 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

2 Corinthians 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
6 By pureness, by knowledge, by long suffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
11 O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
12 Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
13 Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.

OK.
Why are you here ?

 

[gordon777]

back on 1 Corinthians 3 for Tenchi. ( also for anyone who cares to see.)

Any time anyone questions the teaching of people ( on this forum for example) who is right and what is right ?

Is that not answered by knowing nobody talking is right, because the appeal n scripture is always to follow Christ.

Just turning the page from 1 Cor 3, to 4, shows exactly that, even unto that PRESENT HOUR, the apostle was a real example, and so much so he can state to not follow the thousands and thousands of teachers ( forums etc) but to be followers of the apostle, because of what he is following. ( Christ.)

Paul also tells how he sent Timothy to the Corinthians, to REMEMBER ALL OF HIS WAYS IN CHRIST.

The Corinthians thought Paul would not go to them, and asks what do they prefer, in the spirit of meekness, or a sword. ( so much for them being called babes in Christ.)



1 Corinthians 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1 Corinthians 4:17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
18 Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you.
19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.
20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
21 What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?