Santa Clause

[lionandthelamb]

i'll be honest here, yes i understand where everyone is coming from and sometimes i wonder the same thing. however, i really do not think we are going to be sent to hell just because we teach our kids the cute, fun character of santa clause. i grew up believing there was a santa clause i also knew that Christmas was to celebrate Jesus and i still do. i will be telling my children about santa clause for the pure fun of it, i don't see any harm and i doubt it will honestly traumatize them when they find out i've "lied" to them. i remember when i found out about santa clause, i don't remember how old i was but when i figured out it was my dad and not really santa clause i was like. hmm. that makes sense lol i knew in my heart that they did that just for the fun of santa clause but i also knew that it didn't take away from knowing about Jesus.

 

[sheshisown]

Very straight forward witness lionandthelamb... I guess my view of Santa was always a jaded one, just a ton of poopy memories surrounding the whole celebration~ before I came to Jesus. :opps To my own heart~ telling my girls that santa was true would be lying... so I did not do that. I would never say to anyone else that they ought to be convicted as I am... I earnestly seek to let the Holy Spirit do that work. :yes

Today, I celebrate Christmas by taking part in the church fun, skits, and singing in the choir, and all the family gathers for a wonderful time too! But my grandkids don't know anything about Santa except what they see in the movies, it doesn't hurt them though. They think santa is a cute myth~ like the tooth fairy, or the easter bunny is...

It is not always easy to act differently than the world, it's kinda like swimming against the flow, ya know? But I also think it is unwise for a Christian to take a stand in any area unless the Lord is calling them to do so... it does NO ONE any good to follow men. Let us all follow the Lord as He directs~ that ~is the only place of overcoming power. :yes

Finally, another reason many Christians decide not to celebrate Christmas in the same manner as the rest of the world is because they have learned more about its origins...

The Birth Of Christ Was Substituted For A Pagan Festival

During that time the Romans celebrated the Saturnalia festival on December 25th. This marked the date of the winter solsticeâ€â€the time when the sun would turn northward again. The feast was called Sol Invictus, the "Unconquerable Sun." The Christians at that time wanted to replace the pagan festivals with Christian festivals. Since the phrase "Son of Righteousness" was a common designation for Jesus, it seemed natural to celebrate this date as the birth of the Son of Righteousness rather than celebrating the Unconquerable Sun in the sky. Therefore the selection of December 25th as the date of the birth of Christ was probably a matter of substitution of the Christian festival for a pagan festival.

See---> (http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/stewart.cfm?id=195)

As there is a question as to the exact year Jesus was born, the exact day of His birth is also uncertain... December 25th was chosen as the date in Europe and spread to all the West. It seems to have come from substituting the pagan Roman festival around the winter solstice with the celebration of the birth of Christ...

I (for one) have no morals stated here for all to follow... Let each one follow as the Lord Himself leads them. But we do get to know one another a bit better from our discussions, eh? Yet~ most of all, we get to know our Lord Jesus best!

sheshisown~

 

[Nikki]

We did the whole Santa thing with our kids. My oldest is now in 6th grade and she just now found out. She wasn't upset and she's looking forward to playing Santa for her sister this year. When our kids asked if Santa was real, we just said "He is if you believe he is". My parents used to tell me that when we stopped believing, we stopped receiving. I knew he wasn't real but I never let on because I still wanted to get those presents. When my mom finally told me that I was getting older and needed to know the truth, I started crying because my greedy self thought I wouldn't get a present ever again. I never got mad at them or felt like they lied. I felt as though they allowed me to have an imagination and I appreciate that. It made Christmas fun.

They made sure to teach us the true meaning of Christmas. I always make sure to let my kids know that Jesus is the true meaning of Christmas. When we told our oldest that Santa wasn't real, we told her about Saint Nicholas and how when he died, the parents kept on the tradition of gift giving.

http://holidays.kaboose.com/christmas/t ... holas.html

 

[seekandlisten]

I don't see the issue here?? I never lied to my daughter about santa clause. She's 10 now so obviously she doesn't believe in him anymore but there is no harm in entertaining the idea when a child is young. It's more important to put the emphasis on giving gifts rather than receiving gifts. Are we not robbing our children of a simple pleasure of being a kid when we tell them santa isn't real even though all their friends are getting presents from santa?

 

[Blazin Bones]

The issues is that if we teach that that there is a Santa that they never see and then tell them there is no Santa, then there isn't too much of a stretch to find that Mom and Dad always talk about Jesus who I never see, so is he fake too?

Besides Christmas is not about any gift but one, the gift of Christ. When you give gifts to your children, why not give them in recognition of how God gave us a gift so many years ago.

Why do we raise children to be "Compatable" with the ideals of society when we are supposed to raise them in the ways of the Lord?

 

[JohnEboy1983]

The issues is that if we teach that that there is a Santa that they never see and then tell them there is no Santa, then there isn't too much of a stretch to find that Mom and Dad always talk about Jesus who I never see, so is he fake too?

Exactly my thoughts on it. Although I had a very great childhood to where it almost felt magical waiting for Santa to bring presents every year as I left notes asking to ride on his sleigh and cookies and milk for him to eat and drink and I would love to see that same look of excitement in my own childs face someday, I very well know that if my parents had also been real Christians and taught me about Jesus and then some day told me Santa was not real, I suppose it could be a very real possibility of ever being able to trust and have faith Jesus is there and not just something people created in my life like my parents did with Santa. I grew up believing on Santa and not Jesus. Now, I grow believing on Jesus and not Santa.

Keep in mind that some children may deal with it differently, but why risk it. Someday your child may see that you have been very truthful with them seeing that you told them Santa was not real while they see every other kid in school let down because their parents told them about something imaginary. I think this can lead to more gained trust by your children that what you tell them about Jesus is in fact true. I also come to you as a old young believer in Santa Clause myself, so I really do know how great it was for me every year at Christmas to believe in a man who rode on a sleigh with reindeers droping down chimmeneys delivering gifts, but I am a Christian now and I believe my outlook has been altered in it especially since I want the children I may have someday to grow up trusting in me and trusting what I have told them about Christ to be true.

 

[sheshisown]

:waving Hi JohnEboy~

You have memories which are beautiful in the "magic" your parents created in an Imaginary santa.

I wonder if you CAN see that look of excitement on the faces of your children some day? Perhaps you may be able to show them how to hope for Christmas... in a new way.

They can be taught to wait expectantly for the great day once each year ~ the birthday of the King of Kings! In which they can write their own "notes to Jesus," asking Him if someday they can ride on a cloud with Him and touch a shining star~ or see a new planet or solar system or universe with Him~ and stay up as late as they like cause they won't get sleepy~ or eat fruits never tasted before and never get sick, and see a perfect earth~ and a new perfect universe! :D

You can tell them how Jesus will put them in His lap~ and hug them. How Jesus is always thinking about them, how He knows EVERYTHING about them, but never thinks a single bad thing of them. :yes How He will always love them~ even MORE than you do... :heart

In telling them these truths... not myths... in sharing His birth with them~ as they grow up. Of the marvel that GOD Most High would condesend to become a man, humble himself, and nurse as a baby in need of milk, and live a paupers life, and die a sinners death, with no other purpose than to SHOW them He loves them, to show them only He is able to save them, and make them His own children forever and ever! :nod

In sharing your Lord and Savior, you will give them the greatest gift of all... true love which is the only REAL "magic."

sheshisown~

 

[JoJo]

Are we not robbing our children of a simple pleasure of being a kid when we tell them santa isn't real even though all their friends are getting presents from santa?

Oh, I don't think so. My parents never pretended there was a Santa. We knew our presents were coming from them. But Christmas morning was always SO special.

 

[handy]

The issues is that if we teach that that there is a Santa that they never see and then tell them there is no Santa, then there isn't too much of a stretch to find that Mom and Dad always talk about Jesus who I never see, so is he fake too?

Besides Christmas is not about any gift but one, the gift of Christ. When you give gifts to your children, why not give them in recognition of how God gave us a gift so many years ago.

Why do we raise children to be "Compatable" with the ideals of society when we are supposed to raise them in the ways of the Lord?

I was a day-care provider for over 12 years at a fairly large day care. I have my degree in early childhood education, I have two kids of my own, 12 nieces and nephews and have been Sunday School teacher for countless kids. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that I've been closely involved with well over 1000 preschoolers in my life. I say this just to qualify my next remarks with the fact that I've been around young children a lot more than the average person. And in my experience, the vast majority of kids don't have all that much trouble differentiating between real and make-believe.

Since God is real, and since His Spirit can and does work in the hearts of kids and since Santa is make-believe, the fear that a child will ultimately rejects a parent's faith in God because of Santa is pretty slim. I know, because there has been some that have testified so, that for a few kids finding out the truth about Santa was a huge disappointment in life, but that tends to be with super-sensitive kids, and parents should be aware if their child has that kind of super-sensitivity.

For the vast majority of kids though, the whole Santa thing is just a fun fairy tale and in no way harms or influences their belief in God and their ability to know the real "reason for the Season". I personally know many people who now are on-fire Christians, true disciples and witnesses, some who are pastors and youth leaders, who grew up with the whole Santa thing, (and count me as one of them). For most kids, almost all kids as a matter of fact, finding out the truth about Santa is one of their steps of growing up and they find it fun to think that they know something that littler kids don't. I know with my daughter, she actually looked forward to helping me buy the Santa gifts for her little brother and truly enjoyed watching him be excited about the Santa gifts that she helped pick out.

Everyone should look to their own conscience in this matter. If some want to participate in the whole Santa thing, there's freedom to do so, and if someone doesn't, there is freedom for that as well. However, I don't think anyone need to have fears about letting their kids take part in Santa, for those fears are unfounded.

 

[JoJo]

I don't know, Dora. I think I'm going to have to disagree.

I don't see how it can be a healthy part of growing up to find out that something you believed in isn't real after all. Yes, it might be "normal" because it is commonly experienced, but how does this benefit a child? Not that everything has to be beneficial, but I would think growing up to believe your parents (when they tell you that both Santa and Jesus are real) and then finding out that they basically lied to you about one of them would be unhealthy. How is a child to know that their parents aren't lying about Jesus? Logic tells me they would question that too.

I would be interested in hearing any stories from people who actually were disappointed with their parents when they found out Santa was made up.

 

[handy]

Are we not robbing our children of a simple pleasure of being a kid when we tell them santa isn't real even though all their friends are getting presents from santa?

Oh, I don't think so. My parents never pretended there was a Santa. We knew our presents were coming from them. But Christmas morning was always SO special.

Well, since you didn't do the Santa thing, it's understandable that you'd be unsure as to how a kid would take it. Trust me, most kids figure out about Santa before their parents tell them anyway.

There is though every difference in the world between make-believe and God. I go back again to the idea that equating finding out the truth about Santa with disbelieving in God is more or less denying the power of the Holy Spirit to reveal Himself to one. I think it was this thread that I had shared me asking my daughter if believing in Santa and then finding out he wasn't real affected her belief in God and she thought I was sort of crazy for even thinking such a thing.

I really don't view the whole Santa thing as lying. To me, its more of an inter-active fairy tale. Play-acting, like acting like I really was scared when they would shout "Boo" or that I really couldn't see them when they were "hiding" under the table, little games we would play when they were little kids.

At any rate, I think it would be interesting to poll folks who grew up with the Santa myth and see how it affected their belief in God when they found out it wasn't real. I would bet you a KrispyKreme donut that the majority found it fun and plan on doing the same with their own kids.

If I wasn't supposed to be working, I'd create the poll right now. I guess the holiday spirit is upon me, and I just can't seem to get myself to working here. Oh well, I have until Sunday morning to get the bulletins ready for church! :D

 

[handy]

Oh, patootie! I think I'll go ahead and create that poll any way. I think I'll put it in "General Talk" so that it would get the most visiblity.

 

[sheshisown]

I think we should consider both aspects of Christian liberty here...

Let each one be convicted according to their own conscience in Christ ... gives us the basis for our personal choices...

So~ if it will not harm me, or my less-sensitive child~ then it is okay? This logic is fallible,
because we cannot always KNOW our childs response ~ whether they are just a bit TOO
sensitive... and what of the parents who are less aware of their child's nature?

Certainly the Holy Spirit brings conviction to salvation... ~However, if we are not strictly Calvanists here~ we see that the person has a choice to make, and that their choice may be affected by those who witness to them.

Aren't we concerned with whether a parent will lose credibility in their own child's
estimation and their witness of the Lord be hindered? A moral conviction is required to take a stand, justifiable reasons (no matter how reasonable they sound) cannot provide lasting footing.

Also what of the other side of Chrsitian liberty, which tells us we may NOT partake of something that is regarded as a "gray" area, when it will stumble a brother or sister in our common faith?

I still say we must consider these things~ for the sake of a pure witness to those we as parents MOST desire to be saved, our own children. :heart

sheshisown~

 

[JoJo]

I'll take that Krispy Kreme donut! :tongue2 It might make a good dessert if I have to eat crow. :D

 

[jasoncran]

just to let you all know as to this day i generally dislike christmas because i was picked on by so called christians an unbelievers. my parents were jw's when i and sibblings were young.we took a lot of flak for that.

so please tell your kids not to tease those that dont celibrate christmas. as they have no idea how that wounds the souls of those kids.

truth told i can take or leave christmas, as i know the lord and why he came. i do give gifts and state merry christmas and give cards. it is a holiday yet dont like the pressure that it causes parents and the kids saying look at what i got and you have nothing better than this.


sorry to bring this up here.

 

[Relic]

I don't know, Dora. I think I'm going to have to disagree.

I don't see how it can be a healthy part of growing up to find out that something you believed in isn't real after all. Yes, it might be "normal" because it is commonly experienced, but how does this benefit a child? Not that everything has to be beneficial, but I would think growing up to believe your parents (when they tell you that both Santa and Jesus are real) and then finding out that they basically lied to you about one of them would be unhealthy. How is a child to know that their parents aren't lying about Jesus? Logic tells me they would question that too.

I would be interested in hearing any stories from people who actually were disappointed with their parents when they found out Santa was made up.

hmmmm, Maybe kids these days would think to tell their parents they had better go to factcheck.com or go to snopes.com, or do their research before they go telling them things about Santa, and to provide proof enough for them so their kids can rely on factcheck.org or snopes.com for being the reliable sources of whether their parents are telling them the truth or not, that is, before they go ahead and beleive anything their parents tell them or show them, or share with them. :nag Ya think?

.

 

[handy]

I don't know, Dora. I think I'm going to have to disagree.

I don't see how it can be a healthy part of growing up to find out that something you believed in isn't real after all. Yes, it might be "normal" because it is commonly experienced, but how does this benefit a child? Not that everything has to be beneficial, but I would think growing up to believe your parents (when they tell you that both Santa and Jesus are real) and then finding out that they basically lied to you about one of them would be unhealthy. How is a child to know that their parents aren't lying about Jesus? Logic tells me they would question that too.

I would be interested in hearing any stories from people who actually were disappointed with their parents when they found out Santa was made up.

hmmmm, Maybe kids these days would think to tell their parents they had better go to factcheck.com or go to snopes.com, or do their research before they go telling them things about Santa, and to provide proof enough for them so their kids can rely on factcheck.org or snopes.com for being the reliable sources of whether their parents are telling them the truth or not, that is, before they go ahead and beleive anything their parents tell them or show them, or share with them. :nag Ya think?

.

:toofunny

 

[JoJo]

The point is...they will find out it isn't true. And who told them it was? Their parents -- the ones they rely on the most. These kids are living with a falsehood. What can be good about that?

I'm totally not trying to sound harsh and I'm definitely not trying to be judgmental. I'm just questioning how healthy it is to believe Santa is real.

And I'm also saying that a child can have happy, joyful, memorable Christmases without thinking Santa brought them their presents based on whether they were "naughty" or "nice." And that's another thing...if we teach them that, we are teaching that gifts are rewards, not tokens of love.

Sorry for the ranting. ;) Love you guys.

 

[sheshisown]

:waving ~We remember that in these less concrete areas of our walk in Christ we ought to follow our personal leading from the Lord. Whatever it is~ and thank God for His directing hand and for His love poured into our hearts. :nod

Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. Romans 14:22

~Also let us respect the convictions of our brothers and sisters in any area which is NOT outlined for us in the Bible specifically because the Bible also tells us to protect one anothers faith~ that is love too.

But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat [or decorate] from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin. Romans 14:23 (Emphasis and added phrase, or decorate, my own...) :shades

sheshisown~

 

[JoJo]

Point taken, sweet Bonnie. Thank you. :nod