Satan Is No Longer "The Prince [ruler] Of This World."

[Genesis Owl]

We will be the resurrected Church.We will have authority to judge the Angels.

How shall we judge those emissaries (Angels) that God entrusted to their position?
Maybe it means we shall judge those fallen angels?

Jude 1:6

 

[Jack Hectorman]

I was reading you to say that Satan was not a factor at all in the world.

/smile I wouldn't want anyone to get the idea that I believe that Satan is "not a factor at all in this world."

I believe he is a very serious factor in this world right now, and that is why I said in my OP the following:

"Satan nonetheless still has great powers in this world and we Christians must daily read our Bibles,
pray to the Lord for help and guidance, and trust in the power of the Holy Spirit to strengthen us against
the schemes of Satan."__Jack H. [in the OP]

/smile, Its easy to miss seeing statements in Opening Posts, we all do that.


____________________



I think the facts that I presented from John 12:27-33 were summed up
nicely by Matthew Henry in his commentary on John 12: 27-33 [This
quote appeared in my post 10]

"Christ, reconciling the world to God by the merit of his death,
broke the power of death, and cast out Satan as a destroyer.
Christ, bringing the world to God by the doctrine of his cross,
broke the power of sin, and cast out Satan as a deceiver."
__Matthew Henry

To my best knowledge this view of John 12:27-33 is held by all the
most trusted and distinguished theologians. This is the case because
the text of John 12:27-33 compellingly teaches this as a fact.

More solid compelling support for this position comes from Matthew 28:18
where the Lord Christ said that He had been given all power and authority
right now both in Heaven and here on Earth. Both Satan and the Lord Christ
cannot have all power and authority right now here on earth. If Satan has all
power and authority here on earth now, then the Lord Christ does not have
all power and authority here on earth right now. I will stand on Matthew 28:18
and hold the position that it is the Lord Christ, and NOT Satan, that has all
the power and authority right now here on earth.

All means exactly that: "all"
Satan does nothing [as in zero] without the permission of the Sovereign God.

Then the passage in Eph.1:18-23 states solid compelling facts to support the facts
presented in John 12:27-33 and Matthew 28:18 See again, in the OP,
my careful presentation of what Eph.1:18-23 actually says.

_____________




Here are some more New Testament verses that can be read as additional New
Testament evidence to go with the compelling evidence of the 4 verses already
presented in this thread, which verses already presented were:
John 12:27-33
Matthew 28:18
Eph.1:18-23
1 Cor.15:24-25


These new additional New Testament verses are:

1 John 3:8
The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been
sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to
destroy the devil’s work."
I interpret this verse in light of John 12:27-33 and Matthew 28:18
I conclude that since the Lord Christ right now is seated at the right hand of
God [which is the position of power and authority, and since right now the
Lord Christ has been given ALL power and authority here on earth, that
since all that is true, then "destroy the devil's work" in 1 John 3:8
means this:

"Christ, reconciling the world to God by the merit of his death, broke
the power of death, and cast out Satan as a destroyer. Christ, bringing
the world to God by the doctrine of his cross, broke the power of sin,
and cast out Satan as a deceiver." __Matthew Henry

Again, I quote Matthew Henry, NOT because of his authority [he has no authority,
none of us do] but I quote Henry because he sums up correctly what the John
12:27-33 clearly says.

_______________


Col. 2:15
And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public
spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

I interpret this verse in light of John 12:27-33 and Mathew 28:18 and
Eph.1:18-23 See again Matthew Henry's excellent summation [in bolded
red just above] when reading this magnificent verse in Col. 2:15

____________________


Heb. 2:14-15

14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity
so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—
that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery
by their fear of death.

I interpret Heb. 2:14-15 in light of the facts established by John in John 12:27-33
and by the facts established by the Lord Jesus in Matthew 28:18


_______________________


John 16:7-11
7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away,
the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes,
he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:
9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because
I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment,
because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Same. I interpret John 16:7-11 in light of all the previous verses mentioned especially
John 12:27-33 and Matthew 28:18

_____________________

List of verses, so far, that support the thesis of the Opening Post:

John 12:27-33
Matthew 28:18
Eph.1:18-23
1 John 3:8
Col.2:15
Heb.2:14-15
John 16:11
_______________


I end this post as I started it by again strongly emphasizing this:

"Satan nonetheless still has great powers in this world and we Christians must
daily read our Bibles,pray to the Lord for help and guidance, and trust in the
power of the Holy Spirit to strengthen us against the schemes of Satan."
__Jack H. [in the OP and also at the top of this post]

♫

 

[jasonc]

but you aren't a preterist and use two preterist commentators. interesting.

 

[childeye]

Hello childeye,

A beautiful and magnificent ↑ verse [and Biblical doctrine.]

Your verse brought to mind another magnificent verse, this time from the New Testament:

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
1 Cor. 15:24-25

I note the verse says the end of *time will not come until the Lord Christ has put all His enemies under His feet.

*The phrase "Then the end will come" can't mean anything other than the end of time. Verse 24 and 25 are
specifically talking about time and what will happen BEFORE time ends.

___________________


It was the word "footstool" in your verse up there, that reminded me of the phrase "enemies under His feet" in 1 Cor.15:25

Here is your magnificent verse just in case some might be interested in reading all of it.

Thank you for the verses, and the sharing in honoring the Christ. I enjoyed them very much.

Sometimes I ponder the means by which God would make Christ's enemies his footstool. Then again sometimes I am not sure I should care or need to know.

I agree "the end" is referring to the end of time when God will have completed His Grande purpose for this corruptible existence. At any rate your op is probably going to be challenged on this forum because people may not understand your inference due to semantics.

 

[Genesis Owl]

Yes, it is easy to miss that. However, that is not the case here as our conversation has progressed beyond the first post.

/smile I wouldn't want anyone to get the idea that I believe that Satan is "not a factor at all in this world."

I believe he is a very serious factor in this world right now, and that is why I said in my OP the following:

"Satan nonetheless still has great powers in this world and we Christians must daily read our Bibles,
pray to the Lord for help and guidance, and trust in the power of the Holy Spirit to strengthen us against
the schemes of Satan."__Jack H. [in the OP]

/smile, Its easy to miss seeing statements in Opening Posts, we all do that.


____________________



I think the facts that I presented from John 12:27-33 were summed up
nicely by Matthew Henry in his commentary on John 12: 27-33 [This
quote appeared in my post 10]

"Christ, reconciling the world to God by the merit of his death,
broke the power of death, and cast out Satan as a destroyer.
Christ, bringing the world to God by the doctrine of his cross,
broke the power of sin, and cast out Satan as a deceiver."
__Matthew Henry

To my best knowledge this view of John 12:27-33 is held by all the
most trusted and distinguished theologians. This is the case because
the text of John 12:27-33 compellingly teaches this as a fact.

More solid compelling support for this position comes from Matthew 28:18
where the Lord Christ said that He had been given all power and authority
right now both in Heaven and here on Earth. Both Satan and the Lord Christ
cannot have all power and authority right now here on earth. If Satan has all
power and authority here on earth now, then the Lord Christ does not have
all power and authority here on earth right now. I will stand on Matthew 28:18
and hold the position that it is the Lord Christ, and NOT Satan, that has all
the power and authority right now here on earth.

All means exactly that: "all"
Satan does nothing [as in zero] without the permission of the Sovereign God.

Then the passage in Eph.1:18-23 states solid compelling facts to support the facts
presented in John 12:27-33 and Matthew 28:18 See again, in the OP,
my careful presentation of what Eph.1:18-23 actually says.

_____________




Here are some more New Testament verses that can be read as additional New
Testament evidence to go with the compelling evidence of the 4 verses already
presented in this thread, which verses already presented were:
John 12:27-33
Matthew 28:18
Eph.1:18-23
1 Cor.15:24-25


These new additional New Testament verses are:

1 John 3:8
The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been
sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to
destroy the devil’s work."
I interpret this verse in light of John 12:27-33 and Matthew 28:18
I conclude that since the Lord Christ right now is seated at the right hand of
God [which is the position of power and authority, and since right now the
Lord Christ has been given ALL power and authority here on earth, that
since all that is true, then "destroy the devil's work" in 1 John 3:8
means this:

"Christ, reconciling the world to God by the merit of his death, broke
the power of death, and cast out Satan as a destroyer. Christ, bringing
the world to God by the doctrine of his cross, broke the power of sin,
and cast out Satan as a deceiver." __Matthew Henry

Again, I quote Matthew Henry, NOT because of his authority [he has no authority,
none of us do] but I quote Henry because he sums up correctly what the John
12:27-33 clearly says.

_______________


Col. 2:15
And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public
spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

I interpret this verse in light of John 12:27-33 and Mathew 28:18 and
Eph.1:18-23 See again Matthew Henry's excellent summation [in bolded
red just above] when reading this magnificent verse in Col. 2:15

____________________


Heb. 2:14-15

14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity
so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—
that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery
by their fear of death.

I interpret Heb. 2:14-15 in light of the facts established by John in John 12:27-33
and by the facts established by the Lord Jesus in Matthew 28:18


_______________________


John 16:7-11
7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away,
the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes,
he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:
9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because
I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment,
because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Same. I interpret John 16:7-11 in light of all the previous verses mentioned especially
John 12:27-33 and Matthew 28:18

_____________________

List of verses, so far, that support the thesis of the Opening Post:

John 12:27-33
Matthew 28:18
Eph.1:18-23
1 John 3:8
Col.2:15
Heb.2:14-15
John 16:11
_______________


I end this post as I started it by again strongly emphasizing this:

"Satan nonetheless still has great powers in this world and we Christians must
daily read our Bibles,pray to the Lord for help and guidance, and trust in the
power of the Holy Spirit to strengthen us against the schemes of Satan."
__Jack H. [in the OP and also at the top of this post]

♫

 

[Jack Hectorman]

but you aren't a preterist and use two preterist commentators. interesting.

Hello Jason,

.. lol .. There isn't very much interesting about that.

I use commentaries written by Baptists, but I'm not a Baptist.
I feel certain you use commentaries written by Christian theologians
that belong to Christian denominations that you do not belong to.

Also I feel certain that you listen to preachers on the radio and TV
that belong to Christian denominations that you do not belong to.
When they preach doctrinal sermons that's the same as reading
commentaries.

I will use a commentary written by anyone that I believe to be
Biblically knowledgeable and that has a high view of the Holy
Scriptures and believes the Scriptures are the inspired word of
God, which is what they are. See 2 Tim. 3:16-17

Btw, I have mentioned only three commentators so far in this thread,
they were Matthew Henry, Adam Clark, and John Calvin. I was not
aware they were Preterists. In fact I feel reasonably certain that
neither of these 3 distinguished commentators are Preterists.
[I seem to recall mentioning Adam Clark and Calvin]

What makes you think Henry, Clarke, and Calvin were Preterists?

.. lol .. Again I am not a preterist.

I am a plain simple old fashioned Bible believing Presbyterian.

I am also a plain old simple Bible believing Postmillennialist
that has only one simple message for the world, and that
message is all men must be born again [John 3:3] followed
by accepting the Lord Jesus as their Savior [John 3:16],
followed by allowing the Holy Spirit to teach them how to
become good Christians by producing in them the fruits
of the Holy Spirit such as are mentioned in Gal. 5:22-23

As I said, I am a simple Bible believing Presbyterian and a
Postmillennialist, and here is my definition of what
Postmillennialism is, as expressed by the K.L. Gentry:

"Postmillennialism is the view that Christ will return to the
earth after the Spirit-blessed Gospel has had overwhelming
success in bringing the world to the adoption of Christianity."
__ Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr.

Postmillennialism is a totally orthodox and highly respectable
Christian position on eschatology.

Here are some Distinguished Postmillennialists:

Jonathan Edwards
Charles Hodge
A.A. Hodge
James Henley Thornwell
Benjamin B. Warfield
David Brown
Roderick Campbell
Erroll Hulse
Martin G. Selbrede
W.G.T. Shedd
Augustus H. Strong
Marcellus J. Kik
James H. Snowden
R.C. Sproul
Kenneth R. Gentry
Keith Mathison

Cheers.

♫ ♪ ♫ ♪

 

[jasonc]

gentry is a preterist. and uhm the context of preterism(not full ) predates oh futurism by a few hundred years. actually eusubus was the first preterist. matthew henry and adam Clarke read up what they teach on matthew 24. they don't mention any future return of isreal. henry believe that if Mathew 23's prophecy was a nation it would be a Christian church in isreal after that promise.

 

[Kathi]

How shall we judge those emissaries (Angels) that God entrusted to their position?
Maybe it means we shall judge those fallen angels?

Jude 1:6

No we will not have the authority to judge the fallen angles.God made man in his image so we were created a level above the angels.We will judge them.

 

[Genesis Owl]

No we will not have the authority to judge the fallen angles.God made man in his image so we were created a level above the angels.We will judge them.

Thank you.

 

[Kathi]

Thank you.

You are welcome

 

[Jack Hectorman]

Thank you for the verses, and the sharing in honoring the Christ. I enjoyed them very much.

childeye,

I'm glad you found them enjoyable. I enjoy sharing God's word with my fellow Christians.

Sometimes I ponder the means by which God would make Christ's enemies his footstool. Then again sometimes I am not sure I should care or need to know.

I think the means are very simple and I think all we Christians have already been told how
this will occur in human history. The means is the preaching of the simple gospel message
as given in the New Testament, and that simple gospel message to be empowered by the
supernatural power and work of the Holy Spirit. Put another way, we can say it like this:

When the Lord Christ gave His disciples [and His entire Christian Church] His Great Commission
He was serious and not joking any at all. He really meant for His Christian Church to go forth
in the power of the Holy Spirit and Christianize the entire world and He commanded us to do
that. It was not a suggestion, it was a command.

The Great Commission
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.
17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them
and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and
make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and
of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And
surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Matthew 28:16-20

The Christianizing of the entire world, that is, the actual carrying out of Christ's
command namely His Great Commission to His Church] is how all His enemies
are to be made His footstool.

I agree "the end" is referring to the end of time when God will have completed His Grande
purpose for this corruptible existence.

Amen. Its crystal clear and a very comforting passage in God's word.

At any rate your op is probably going to be challenged on this forum because people may not
understand your inference due to semantics.

/smile . . . That's okay. I'm not trying to convince anybody, I'm merely presenting what I believe the
Bible teaches on this issue. Christians hold different views on what the Bible teaches on some of
these issues.

♫ ♫

 

[childeye]

childeye:
Sometimes I ponder the means by which God would make Christ's enemies his footstool. Then again sometimes I am not sure I should care or need to know.

The Christianizing of the entire world, that is, the actual carrying out of Christ's
command namely His Great Commission to His Church is how all His enemies
are to be made His footstool.

But this is too easy an answer. Allow me to complicate it for you. No doubt the Gospel is the power of salvation and Christ's enemies would fight the Gospel. But his enemies eventually become his friends even as he loves his enemies. Saul was an enemy of the Gospel, yet he became Paul, a preacher of the Gospel. This is puzzling. Are the enemies that will be his footstool, those who fight against the Gospel to the bitter end? Or are they his enemies defeated by the Gospel and now are his friends? If they are his enemies that fight the Gospel to the bitter end, what reasoning could possibly convince someone to persevere in the ignorance of God? I would dare call it insanity. However, if his footstool are his enemies made friends, then I am his footstool. And when he puts his feet up on my back, I will shake ever so gently so that he gets a little massage.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

How shall we judge those emissaries (Angels) that God entrusted to their position?
Maybe it means we shall judge those fallen angels?

Jude 1:6

has to be

 

[BigSodaExposer]

God made man in his image so we were created a level above the angels..

You sure about that Kathi? Hebrews 2:7 "Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands" -

Psalm 8:4-5 "
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour"

 

[Deborah13]

but you aren't a preterist and use two preterist commentators. interesting.

I don't know all who was quoted besides Matt Henry, but I know he wasn't a preterist. Here's a quote from his commentary on Rev. 20.
"This chapter is thought by some to be the darkest part of all this prophecy: it is very probable that the things contained in it are not yet accomplished; and therefore it is the wiser way to content ourselves with general observations, rather than to be positive and particular in our explications of it. Here we have an account, I. Of the binding of Satan for a thousand years (v. 1-3). II. The reign of the saints with Christ for the same time (v. 4-6). III. Of the loosing of Satan, and the conflict of the church with Gog and Magog (v. 7–10). IV. Of the day of judgment (v. 11, etc.)."
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/mhcw/revelation/20.htm

These men were all of the Historicist View - Reformation
Prominent scholars who held this view include John Wycliffe, John Knox, William Tyndale, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ulrich Zwingli, John Wesley, Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield, Charles Finney, C. H. Spurgeon, and Matthew Henry.

 

[Kathi]

You sure about that Kathi? Hebrews 2:7 "Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands" -

Psalm 8:4-5 "
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour"

Yes I am sure Hebrews 1:14
Hebrews 2:16

 

[BigSodaExposer]

Yes I am sure Hebrews 1:14
Hebrews 2:16

Those two verses do not mention man being created a level above the Angels.

 

[By Grace]

My only issue with this premise as a whole is that the OP is quoting de jure rights but the operations yet are de facto, which is what effectively is in place yet pragmatically speaking. In other words, it matters not if Satan is positionally defeated. The fact is that he still operates as the Prince of the power of the air and will continue to do so until he is bound as Revelation speaks. The death on the cross is the basis for that defeat, but as with salvation or individual people, it has not been put into place for all yet until the Kingdom of God. That is... unless this is one of those Preterist positions which I don't ascribe to. So I won't debate the positional premise, but I will say Satan has and operates as if he has very much power yet, and presently deceives the world.

Here below is proof of the validity of your position. If we Christians are not supposed to participate in spiritual warfare. then why did Paul write this:

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, where with ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
​

Notice that these commands are all in the present tense, not the past nor future tense

 

[jasonc]

I don't know all who was quoted besides Matt Henry, but I know he wasn't a preterist. Here's a quote from his commentary on Rev. 20.
"This chapter is thought by some to be the darkest part of all this prophecy: it is very probable that the things contained in it are not yet accomplished; and therefore it is the wiser way to content ourselves with general observations, rather than to be positive and particular in our explications of it. Here we have an account, I. Of the binding of Satan for a thousand years (v. 1-3). II. The reign of the saints with Christ for the same time (v. 4-6). III. Of the loosing of Satan, and the conflict of the church with Gog and Magog (v. 7–10). IV. Of the day of judgment (v. 11, etc.)."
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/mhcw/revelation/20.htm

These men were all of the Historicist View - Reformation
Prominent scholars who held this view include John Wycliffe, John Knox, William Tyndale, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ulrich Zwingli, John Wesley, Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield, Charles Finney, C. H. Spurgeon, and Matthew Henry.

matthew henry was dead by the time he wrote the commentary for john. his disciples(students) finished the rest of the books.

 

[Genesis Owl]

matthew henry was dead by the time he wrote the commentary for john. his disciples(students) finished the rest of the books.

Matthew Henry finished his commentary on all of the old testament and through to the new testament to the book of Acts, before his death. Friends concluded the body of his commentary using his notes, etc...