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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works
- Thread starter Jim Parker
- Start date
He's not talking about those who fall away. John 10 is about his sheep. I don't know what you are talking about when you say something about his sheep and conditions. You want us to take note of something which isn't there. Illogical. And there is nothing in the Bible about a moment of faith. Faith has to continue or it is not faith.
"provided that you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister." Col. 1:23
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My Point: Believe is the condition by which we are saved.
- Scripture text to support my point:
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12
Key Phrase: lest they should believe and be saved.
Believe is the condition by which we are saved through faith.
Agree or disagree?
If this is incoherent, then I'm sorry, I just can't make it any clearer.
JLB
Whick works are you referring to:
Works of the law; Then No.
Work that earns; Then No.
The work of obedience to the Gospel; Then Yes.
Those who do not obey the Gospel, will suffer His wrath and vengeance, when He comes on that Day.
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10
- taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
That is why it is called the obedience of faith.
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26 KJV
- according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Do you know what the commandment of the everlasting God is?
Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand.
Turn to God, by turning from Satan as your Lord, by confessing Jesus as your Lord.
That is obeying the Gospel.
The work that is required for your faith to be activated, instead of dead, and unable to save you.
Obedience is the principle of faith, that activates your faith, otherwise it's dead, like a body without a spirit is dead.
- Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21
The work was not the works of the law, not the work that earns, but obedience to go and offer his son Isaac on the altar.
Again, I will say, Yes, we are saved by obedience to the Gospel.
JLB
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Regardless, you're still promoting a works salvation.
Salvation is conditioned on believing
Believing is a work effort
Salvation is conditioned on a work of human effort
And nowhere does the Bible say explicitly that we are saved by obedience. That is a view that is outside of orthodoxy.
Yes brother!
If faith isn't now, it's not faith.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1
JLB
Yes, believe means obey, trust, commit.
If you don't agree then just show us the scripture that teaches us those who do not obey the Gospel are saved.
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10
- taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
That is why it is called the obedience of faith.
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26 KJV
JLB
Please share the scripture that teaches us those who do not obey the Gospel are saved.
Here is my scripture that shows us that those who do not obey the Gospel, will suffer the vengeance of God, in everlasting destruction.
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-10
- vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel
- These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord
This plainly says... on those who do not obey the Gospel.
Again
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10
- with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17
JLB
Just show us the scripture that says those who don't obey the Gospel are saved.
You don't believe God has called us to turn to Him, through the Gospel, by confessing Jesus as Lord?
JLB
markathome
Member
Are we not suppose to produce good fruit which requires work of some form? If Not, are we not Cast out? Luke 13:6-9
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
You're promoting a works based salvation by your own words. That is not the orthodox view. And stop with the straw men arguments. No claim has been made by me that those who reject the gospel are saved. I'm challenging YOUR claim which you are apparently unable to defend.
Ephsians 2: 8
For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.…
2 Timothy 1:9
He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not because of our own works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time eternal.
Titus 3:5
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
Romans 11:5
In the same way, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if it is by grace, then it is no longer by works. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.
Gregg T
Member
Believe is a verb, an action, in your Key Phrase and in Lk 8:12.My Point: Believe is the condition by which we are saved.
- Scripture text to support my point:
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12
Key Phrase: lest they should believe and be saved.
Believe is the condition by which we are saved through faith.
Agree or disagree?
If this is incoherent, then I'm sorry, I just can't make it any clearer.
JLB
Yet, you say 'believe is the condition', where condition is a noun (a substantive, a nominative).
You are talking about "believe" as a verbal action in one sense, and as a noun in another sense. That is what does not make sense.
One must believe into Christ. When he believes into Christ, then he is saved, has the type of life that is everlasting, and he will never perish.
Once in Christ, having been born from above, there is no undoing of it either by God or man, or anything else.
Nathan
Member
Do you believe that salvation is based on what someone does? Salvation only comes after one believes?
Believe is the condition required for a person to be saved.
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12
Key Phrase: lest they should believe and be saved.
If you have a scripture, that teaches us those who do not believe are saved, then please post it.
JLB
Gregg T
Member
Once a person is in Christ, they must remain in Him, or otherwise, they will wither, and be cast into the fire and burned.
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:2
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
As long as we are in Christ, we have eternal life.
If we are removed from Him, then we no longer have the eternal life that we once had when we were joined to Him, just as He plainly illustrated by His teaching, of a branch not remaining connected to the vine from which it receives it's life.
In Christ = Eternal life
Removed from Christ = Cast into the fire and burned.
JLB
Nathan
Member
They are meant to help you think about your statement. Not quite rhetorical, but close to it. When you answer the questions(to yourself) you see how your view of salvation either is based upon you doing something or God having done something.
It can't be both. Only one gets credit for salvation, and He ain't sharing the glory of it with anyone
