This site is interesting anymore.You would know
If I said that to you...... a red message that we could not reply to would show up.
Sound doctrine is sure being rejected in this day and age.
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
Strengthening families through biblical principles.
Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.
Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.
This site is interesting anymore.You would know
I believe your understanding is flawed.My understanding is that requires faith in their faith, and trust in their meritoreous works for salvation.
It most certainly is.Sound doctrine is sure being rejected in this day and age.
Not true.
Unbelief and disobedience are different words in the greek text, and are not interchangeable or synonyms for one another. You may be consulting an erroneous translation, or you are conflating the two.
However, we should be obedient to God by believing Him, Heb 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him." See Acts 6:7, Rom 1:5, Rom 16:26.
Good post.
It's interesting that the folks who say, " simply believing in Christ doesn't really save." But if you "simply stop believing in Him you will be unsaved."
Or ......faith alone in Christ doesn't really save a person, But losing your faith alone in Christ will unsave you!
What a mess some believers are in.
Yep.Unbelief is disobedience as it is the same Greek word.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
- Do you consider the King James to be an erroneous translation?
Hebrews 4:6 KJV
Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
Hebrews 4:6 NKJV
Unbelief is Disobedience.
Unbelief - Disobedience - Strong's G543 - apeitheia
The KJV translates Strong's G543 in the following manner: unbelief (4x), disobedient (3x).
- obstinacy, obstinate opposition to the divine will
Rom 11:30
For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: G543
Rom 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, G543 that he might have mercy upon all.
Eph 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: G543
Eph 5:6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. G543
Col 3:6
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: G543
Heb 4:6
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: G543
Heb 4:11
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. G543
JLB
It was in response to the silliness: "It's interesting that the folks who say, " simply believing in Christ doesn't really save." But if you "simply stop believing in Him you will be unsaved." Or ......faith alone in Christ doesn't really save a person, But losing your faith alone in Christ will unsave you!"If I said that to you...... a red message that we could not reply to would show up.
lol No, it hasn't. The claim does not equal reality.Yes, it has been proven clearly.
What HAS been proven is eternal security for EVERY SAVED PERSON.Unless you can show a scripture that says those who don't believe are saved, it will never be dis-proven.
A mere assumption. No proof from Scripture. otoh, eternal security is PROVEN by what Jesus said in John 10:28.Believe = Saved
Believe for a while = Saved for a while.
Where is this total assumption found in Scripture. That one of His sheep become NOT one of His sheep any longer???John 10:28 and it's context only provides more proof of this irrefutable truth, that those who do not believe, are no longer saved.
26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:26-28
- you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep
Those who no longer believe, are no longer His sheep, because they do not believe.
Those who do not believe, any longer, are not His sheep, any longer.
The real challenge is for someone to show from Scripture that one of His sheep can become NOT one of His sheep.Unless you have a scripture that shows those who no longer believe are His sheep, you will never dis-prove this irrefutable truth.
Irrelevant. Because WHEN they DID believe, they were given eternal life. And Jesus says those He gives eternal life will never perish.Any time anyone who believes then, no longer believes, they fall into the catagory of: Do Not Believe.
The bigger challenge is for someone to show that those who do not hear Him or follow Him can actually be His sheep.The real challenge is for someone to show from Scripture that one of His sheep can become NOT one of His sheep.
Jesus said this about the coming of the Holy Spirit:The Holy Spirit is given to those who believe.
This scripture you quoted is about those who believe and are given the Holy Spirit.
You need to show us a scripture that says those who do not believe anymore have the Holy Spirit.
Please explain how a saved person, one who has received eternal life, CAN perish. That would be interesting.I believe your understanding is flawed.
No work is "meritorious." Good works are what we were created to do. (Eph 2:10) One is not awarded "merit" for doing one's job.
Faith without works is like an airplane without wings.
Having faith includes being faithful to obey the LORD's commands.
Failure to obey the LORD's commands is prima facia evidence that, in fact, you do NOT have faith.
Jesus said several times that we will be judged based on the evidence of our good works.
John 5:28-29 (NKJV) … the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Works will not save anyone.
Faith without works will not save anyone either.
Show me your faith without doing anything and I will show you my faith by what I do. (Jas 2:18)
(It's a trick challenge. You cannot show your faith without faithfully doing the works of the faithful.)
iakov the fool
It's not nice to refer to the teaching of Jesus as "unsound doctrine".An example of unsound doctrine goes by "OSAS."
I've never said they could be.The bigger challenge is for someone to show that those who do not hear Him or follow Him can actually be His sheep.
I've never said they could be.
The point remains: those Jesus gives eternal life (that would be all believers, btw) will never perish.
How is that NOT eternal security? Please explain.
Please don't miss the point of v.28. It is to ALL that receive eternal life who SHALL NEVER PERISH.I am not sure what you are thinking honestly, but I know that those who hear His voice and follow Him have eternal life and will not perish - that is eternal security.
Jesus said this about the coming of the Holy Spirit:
"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—" Jn 14:16
It seems your view is that the Holy Spirit will not be with us forever.
In spite of Eph 1:13,14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
When the colored phrases are finally absorbed, one will realize that once sealed with the Holy Spirit, it is permanent, and our inheritance is GUARANTEED, for the day of redemption, as God's possession.
Where is this total assumption found in Scripture. That one of His sheep become NOT one of His sheep any longer???
No, I'm not putting conditions anywhere. Just stating the clear words that Jesus said. Are you putting conditions on His words?Please don't miss the point of v.28. It is to ALL that receive eternal life who SHALL NEVER PERISH.
You're putting conditions where there aren't any.
In v.28, between RECEIVING eternal life and NEVER PERISHING, there are NO CONDITIONS. Period.
I HAVE produced verses that show eternal security, but they have been rejected or ignored, or just missed because of closed eyes. Which isn't my problem.Yes, the condition for the Holy Spirit to be given to us is: Believe.
We agree on this point.
What I have been asking you for, and you have failed to produce is scriptures that validate your unbiblical theory, which states that those who do not believe, any longer, still have the same benefits as those who believe, which is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Eternal Life in Christ Jesus.
I've shown, you've rejected. Not my problem.Again, please post the scriptures that support your theory, belief, point of view, which you promote in this Forum, which is;
Those who do not believe, any longer still have Eternal Life in Christ.
Once more, firing off unrelated questions to a question is no way to have a discussion.Are you now promoting that His sheep can not become lost?
Nothing here about a sheep who became NOT one of His sheep any longer.4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7
This sentence doesn't make any sense to me. We're ALL "as a sinner". So please re-word the sentence so that it makes some sense.Principle: A sheep who becomes lost, must repent or be as a sinner.
Another failed attempt to show a sheep becoming NOT one of His sheep.22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. 23 And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; 24 for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry.
Luke 15:22-24
Without any explanation, I have no idea what your opinion of this verse is. So we'll just leave it there.Lost Sheep:
I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7
No explanation, so we'll just leave it there.Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” Luke 15:10
- Lost Coin:
It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’”
- Prodigal Son
Luke 15:32
This is hilarious! That's exactly what you've been doing all along. Quoting other Scriptures as if they, without any explanation or exegesis, prove your opinions.This foundational truth can not be "explained away" by quoting other scriptures.
JLB