Bible Study Say not in thine heart...

[ezrider]

Isaiah 14:12-14
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


This study is to focus on the condition of the heart. A desire, a condition that says I will ascend into heaven, I will be like the most High. Now before we journey back to the garden, I ask is this desire of the heart found within the beliefs amongst Christian doctrine as well, because a common theme is that we’re going to ascend to heaven to be with Jesus, and that we shall rule and reign with Christ? In a way the Christian doctrine promises that if you believe in Jesus and are obedient to the commandments, then you will ascend in to heaven and become like the most High. It’s a story that goes back to the beginning, when the serpent tempted Adam and Eve in the garden.

Genesis 3:4-6
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.


When the serpent tempted Adam and Eve, the temptation was that they should become as gods, knowing good and evil. When Adam partook, the desire in his heart was to be like the most High, knowing good and evil. Adam was created a Son of God, whose wicked heart desired to become like the most High. Adam failed in his temptation.


Matthew 4:1-10
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


While Adam failed, seeking to become more than just a Son, Jesus did not. In all of his temptations, His response was to acknowledge the most High in every way, His ministry was to make known the Father. He demonstrated by faith the image of a Son, who sought not his own glory, but was lead as a sheep to the slaughter, that the Father might be glorified.

 

[ezrider]

Romans 10:1-8
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

This scripture talks of the righteousness which comes is by faith, which is the focus of this study. Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? Nor say in thine heart, who shall descend into the deep? But the word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth and in thy heart.

How do we take this passage from the book Romans? What do we think it means when it says: Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? O Lucifer, Son of the morning, for thou has said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will be like the most High. What do you say in your heart? Do you desire to ascend into heaven? Do you look to be caught up above the clouds? Is the desire in your heart to be to be able to sit in judgement over others, for the scripture says that you shall judge angels?

Adam’s temptation was the fruit of knowledge and wisdom to become like the most High, judging between good and evil. Many in the church are no different now than Israel was then, they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge (that is the knowledge of God’s righteousness). But they being ignorant of God’s righteousness (which is nigh thee, even in thy mouth and in thy heart). But according to the knowledge of the law, they set out to establish their own righteousness, but will not submit themselves to the righteousness of God. By the knowledge of the law and by the words of the book, they judge and accuse others, judging even the word of God. But how can one hear the Word of God when they are always judging the word of God?


2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


Say not in thine heart, I shall ascend into heaven.
Say not in thine heart, I shall be like the most High.


1 Corinthians 15:25-28
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


Deuteronomy 30:11-14
For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.



Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend in to Heaven.

Say not in thine heart, Who shall descend into the deep.

Sing from thine heart, thou art with me.


.

 

[Chopper]

Good morning EZ. I'm very interested in your thread. The Holy Spirit thru you is challenging my thinking with a caution to remain in a low estate, rather than a lifted up position that only belongs to YHWH. God is a jealous God, and will not share His High Holy position as THE Almighty with anyone or anything (idol).

This I know, but I do realize that certain Christian traditions that are fueled by Scripture miss-used, can, and does cause the flesh's desire to be like God. The following Scripture has been, for me, a holy caution against believing that I'm someone who I'm not.

Philippians 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

These verses have been a main focus of mine to retard me from being someone other than a servant. The verse that says, let this mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus, was one that screwed up a friend of mine.

Question EZ. This Scripture is one that has been miss-used. A close friend of mine and co-pastor in a Church I started used this Scripture to, in my opinion, a violation of what your post is teaching. His name was Ron....

Matthew 10:1 "And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease."

Ron claimed that because Jesus gave His authority to the Disciples, he in turn had that authority. In other words, Ron wasn't a vessel for Jesus to send His authority thru, Ron actually possessed the authority. He was equal to Christ Jesus in that respect. It became Ron's authority, given by Jesus, just like the Disciples.

Is this example what you are addressing in this post? I'm trying to nail down an example, so as to know what to avoid. I have always been fearful of my fleshly pride. I have seen it in other Pastors that really bothered me.

 

[smaller]

Good morning EZ. I'm very interested in your thread. The Holy Spirit thru you is challenging my thinking with a caution to remain in a low estate, rather than a lifted up position that only belongs to YHWH. God is a jealous God, and will not share His High Holy position as THE Almighty with anyone or anything (idol).

This I know, but I do realize that certain Christian traditions that are fueled by Scripture miss-used, can, and does cause the flesh's desire to be like God. The following Scripture has been, for me, a holy caution against believing that I'm someone who I'm not.

Philippians 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

These verses have been a main focus of mine to retard me from being someone other than a servant. The verse that says, let this mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus, was one that screwed up a friend of mine.

Question EZ. This Scripture is one that has been miss-used. A close friend of mine and co-pastor in a Church I started used this Scripture to, in my opinion, a violation of what your post is teaching. His name was Ron....

Matthew 10:1 "And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease."

Ron claimed that because Jesus gave His authority to the Disciples, he in turn had that authority. In other words, Ron wasn't a vessel for Jesus to send His authority thru, Ron actually possessed the authority. He was equal to Christ Jesus in that respect. It became Ron's authority, given by Jesus, just like the Disciples.

Is this example what you are addressing in this post? I'm trying to nail down an example, so as to know what to avoid. I have always been fearful of my fleshly pride. I have seen it in other Pastors that really bothered me.

There are a lot of deluded believers Chopper, as you noted above. Any person trying, and yes, it is trying, to engage the forces of darkness must first understand their own state, which is part sighted, meaning none of us see THAT clearly. I'm not promoting understanding darkness, but we all have such cloth to perpetually shuck off, daily even. As also noted by Paul in Romans 13 and in other places. A person has just got to learn to understand their "place." Their "house" if you please.

Having spent quite a few years in the charismatic arena I've seen just about every from of voodoo enchantments and magic "on stage" that can be seen. It's quite alarming, once stepped back from and assessed with open eyes. And it spreads like an infection to those who are inclined to superfluity and superficiality. Man's ego run completely amok. I prefer sackcloth and ashes garb, personally, because I know my place.

There is no question to me of Gods Overwhelming Greatness, beyond all measures and comprehensions. I have come close enough to being completely blown away by His Glory. It's not easy to take, even a look. Not even a look.

Yet in all these things it is always Gods Intentions to bring us into His Own Self through Christ.

It's just more Self than we can ever comprehend. Hence our need of Christ's Mediation.

 

[Malachi]

a common theme is that we’re going to ascend to heaven to be with Jesus, and that we shall rule and reign with Christ?

Well since that is precisely what Scripture reveals, we can believe it or disbelieve it. But the Bible stands.

 

[markathome]

In a way the Christian doctrine promises that if you believe in Jesus and are obedient to the commandments, then you will ascend in to heaven and become like the most High.

I'm sorry but I don't see that concept no where in the NT? Are we/they getting this from Revelation 20:6 ?

 

[ezrider]

Ron claimed that because Jesus gave His authority to the Disciples, he in turn had that authority. In other words, Ron wasn't a vessel for Jesus to send His authority thru, Ron actually possessed the authority. He was equal to Christ Jesus in that respect. It became Ron's authority, given by Jesus, just like the Disciples.

Is this example what you are addressing in this post? I'm trying to nail down an example, so as to know what to avoid. I have always been fearful of my fleshly pride. I have seen it in other Pastors that really bothered me.

Thank you Chopper. I guess Ron could be an example, but not one that I would use. But there is an example that I can use that you might be able to understand. I hope you don't mind, but you my friend are my example, I promise to be gentle.

You made this statement, and I can not get past it. I had a completely different thought in mind, but I just keep coming back to this statement of yours: "I'm trying to nail down an example, so as to know what to avoid." Why do you need to know what to avoid? If you need to know, then you are not walking by faith, but by your own knowledge. To say that you need an example so as to know what to avoid, is to say that I can walk this path on my own, If only I knew what to look for. But we are not on our own, that we should look to avoid, we have but to follow the Spirit of the Lord who will guide us down the path. We have but to listen and learn as we go through the experiences. What do we learn from an experience if we have tried our best to avoid it? You are doing a study on Ecclesiastes right know, Solomon did not avoid things, he gave himself to know and understand wisdom through experience.

"I have always been fearful of my fleshly pride. I have seen it in other Pastors that really bothered me." Why should you be fearful of your fleshly pride? When we try our best to avoid being prideful, is when we become our most prideful. You said that you have seen it in other Pastors, but we are only truly open to listening to the Spirit when we embrace it within ourselves. The object my friend is not to avoid being prideful, but to know and understand when your being prideful, or why your being prideful. It is in these specials moments that the Spirit of the Lord instructs us and teaches us, not from the words found in a book, but by understanding what you perceive within your heart and within your soul. The Word of God can not be written into your heart if you are to decide what to avoid.

John 15:12-15
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

A servant wishes to know what to avoid so as to not displease his master.
A Friend will walk with you where every you go, and together they will learn things along the way.


Be ye as little children. Ok. When I was a child I would always run and jump in the mud puddle. Oh my shoes would get wet and my clothes would get dirty. But what is the mud puddle, is it something to avoid? Is it good or is it bad? How can you know? For if I had on clean clothes and did not want them soiled, then the mud puddle is bad and must be avoided. But if I had been on a long walk and my feet were sore and tired, then the mud puddle might bring relief to my aching feet. Should I say that this too is bad and something to be avoided? Only wisdom wrought through experience can tell you when to avoid a thing and when to jump full in.

Psalm 25:8-12
Good and upright is the Lord:
therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
The meek will he guide in judgment:
and the meek will he teach his way.
All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth
unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
For thy name's sake, O Lord,
pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
What man is he that feareth the Lord?
him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.


.

 

[ezrider]

Ron claimed that because Jesus gave His authority to the Disciples, he in turn had that authority. In other words, Ron wasn't a vessel for Jesus to send His authority thru, Ron actually possessed the authority. He was equal to Christ Jesus in that respect. It became Ron's authority, given by Jesus, just like the Disciples.

But in the end, what authority did he demonstrate, or maybe I should say which authority did he demonstrate. For the beast and the false prophet, it is the dragon that gives them the authority. In this case, the dragon is the Bible, the dragon is the Law. The Law is their authority when they climb into the seat of Moses. The law is their authority when they stand and play the role of the accuser. The Accuser of the brethren, called the devil, and Satan; yet Jesus said you have but one accuser, even Moses in whom you trust.

Maybe Ron had what I like to call a Christ complex. Thinking themselves to be like Christ. I know I have shared this with you before Chopper. But once upon a time I asked you about how you perceived yourself when you read the words of Matthew where Jesus laid into the Scribe and Pharisees, Hypocrites....

I asked you then when you read those words, did you perceive yourself as Jesus speaking to the Scribes and Pharisees, or did you receive the Word given to you as one of the Scribes and Pharisees. If we are to perceive ourselves as Jesus scolding the Scribes and Pharisees, then what have we said in our hearts? I shall ascend into heaven? I will exalt my throne above the stars of God? I will be like the most High?

Unless you can receive the Word as one of the Scribes and Pharisees, it can not be written into your heart. We are only truly liberated when we are free to ask ourselves how we have been the Pharisee, and to accept that we are Hypocrites. When you can stand before the Lord and say, I am a false teacher, or I am a man of sin, then what power does the accuser have over you?

.

 

[ezrider]

Well since that is precisely what Scripture reveals, we can believe it or disbelieve it. But the Bible stands.

Yet what also saith the scriptures? Many are called, but few are chosen.

 

[ezrider]

Good morning EZ. I'm very interested in your thread. The Holy Spirit thru you is challenging my thinking with a caution to remain in a low estate, rather than a lifted up position that only belongs to YHWH. God is a jealous God, and will not share His High Holy position as THE Almighty with anyone or anything (idol).

Luke 14:7-11
And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them, When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him; And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room. But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[ezrider]

In other words, Ron wasn't a vessel for Jesus to send His authority thru, Ron actually possessed the authority. He was equal to Christ Jesus in that respect.

Somehow I looked over this earlier. Yes, I agree with your conclusion.

 

[Chopper]

Well since that is precisely what Scripture reveals, we can believe it or disbelieve it. But the Bible stands.

This particular statement is referring to ruling in the future realm of the thousand year rule with King Jesus. It should not refer to this age. If EZ is placing this in this age, he is wrong.

 

[smaller]

Maybe Ron had what I like to call a Christ complex. Thinking themselves to be like Christ. I know I have shared this with you before Chopper. But once upon a time I asked you about how you perceived yourself when you read the words of Matthew where Jesus laid into the Scribe and Pharisees, Hypocrites....

I asked you then when you read those words, did you perceive yourself as Jesus speaking to the Scribes and Pharisees, or did you receive the Word given to you as one of the Scribes and Pharisees. If we are to perceive ourselves as Jesus scolding the Scribes and Pharisees, then what have we said in our hearts? I shall ascend into heaven? I will exalt my throne above the stars of God? I will be like the most High?

Unless you can receive the Word as one of the Scribes and Pharisees, it can not be written into your heart. We are only truly liberated when we are free to ask ourselves how we have been the Pharisee, and to accept that we are Hypocrites. When you can stand before the Lord and say, I am a false teacher, or I am a man of sin, then what power does the accuser have over you?
.

Very true above. We all have an almost instant tendency to insulate and isolate ourselves away from Every Word of God that we don't like. It's what I might call a "demonic reflex action" in the heart. You see even though Jesus told us we will LIVE by every Word of God, we still fear to hear. Matt. 4:4, Luke:4:4

I would suggest that 100% of believers fear to their core to hear Jesus' Words here:

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

NOW isn't it quite odd that we know that all have sin dwelling in the flesh, evil present with us, internal temptations of the TEMPTER, which makes us all SINNERS, yet we fail to perceive that we DO work iniquity, and that iniquity is internal.

I saw my own hypocrisy in not hearing Jesus. Then I realized it was NOT ME, but the temptations of the tempter in wicked evil sinful thoughts that made me a factual sinner. And I can not escape this conclusion of fact. THEREFORE I welcome hearing Jesus Words in the statement above, because I KNOW who they are directed to. The accuser of the brethren, the deceiver of the hearts of all. One day Jesus allowed me to hear. And I no longer feared.

I fear rather MUCH MUCH more knowing that God can and does deal adversely with the other party. This I have experienced many times in many ways. My fear of God is set and legitimate. God takes on a two fold role in these ways. Yes, He is my Savior, but He is also the enemy of the tempter and the tempter does operate in the flesh. There is great fear, terror even, on that side of Gods Ledgers and it is inescapable.

Everyone thinks God only leads us one way. If we examine His Ways we can also see that He leads another way:

Psalm 125:5
As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways, the Lord shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity: but peace shall be upon Israel.

Job, in his perfection perhaps thought that God wouldn't deal with the evil present with him, the sin dwelling in his flesh. He found out the hard way that God can and does go there. And Job abhorred himself, when he saw this. And recognized his status in the flesh as 'dust and ashes.'

Recognizing the above it's entirely problematic to suggest just "who" will ascend or descend when as a fact there can be no ascending into Gods Divine Seat. To me that is a foolish suggestion. I am content to know that God has Expressed His Own Self in Christ. But it is not in or on my hands to "get there." That is well beyond any form of power I might think I have in my self centered delusions. IF God has made us for His Pleasure, then from my sights it is up to Him to extract whatever Pleasures He Intends to take, as only He can extract what pleases Him. That again is well beyond my sight or power. I can't even define Perfection other than contemplating His Unending Self. And there is my freedom. Trying to outguess or outsmart God is a fruitless undertaking. So is trying to butter up to Him like a common phony arrogant actor.

I do see people a lot differently than I used to after I saw myself as Paul saw himself in 2 Cor. 12:7. I saw one saved and one damned.

 

[ezrider]

This particular statement is referring to ruling in the future realm of the thousand year rule with King Jesus. It should not refer to this age. If EZ is placing this in this age, he is wrong.

Wherein did I begin to discuss dispensations that we should begin to determine right or wrong? Have we lost sight of the object lesson of this thread, to say not in thine heart, I shall ascend in to heaven. But this is to the point that I am discussing. Your heart is set in one day in the future ruling and reigning with Jesus if you are obedient. Yes that promise is in the Bible, but so was the lesson of Jesus. Did we not understand the temptation in the wilderness.

Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

For where your treasure is, there will be your heart also (Matt 6:5).

If your treasure awaits you in heaven, then what is the desire in your heart? What do you think this scripture means when expressing the righteousness that come by faith?

Romans 10:6-8
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

 

[Chopper]

Thank you Chopper. I guess Ron could be an example, but not one that I would use. But there is an example that I can use that you might be able to understand. I hope you don't mind, but you my friend are my example, I promise to be gentle.

You made this statement, and I can not get past it. I had a completely different thought in mind, but I just keep coming back to this statement of yours: "I'm trying to nail down an example, so as to know what to avoid." Why do you need to know what to avoid? If you need to know, then you are not walking by faith, but by your own knowledge. To say that you need an example so as to know what to avoid, is to say that I can walk this path on my own, If only I knew what to look for. But we are not on our own, that we should look to avoid, we have but to follow the Spirit of the Lord who will guide us down the path. We have but to listen and learn as we go through the experiences. What do we learn from an experience if we have tried our best to avoid it? You are doing a study on Ecclesiastes right know, Solomon did not avoid things, he gave himself to know and understand wisdom through experience.

"I have always been fearful of my fleshly pride. I have seen it in other Pastors that really bothered me." Why should you be fearful of your fleshly pride? When we try our best to avoid being prideful, is when we become our most prideful. You said that you have seen it in other Pastors, but we are only truly open to listening to the Spirit when we embrace it within ourselves. The object my friend is not to avoid being prideful, but to know and understand when your being prideful, or why your being prideful. It is in these specials moments that the Spirit of the Lord instructs us and teaches us, not from the words found in a book, but by understanding what you perceive within your heart and within your soul. The Word of God can not be written into your heart if you are to decide what to avoid.

John 15:12-15
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

A servant wishes to know what to avoid so as to not displease his master.
A Friend will walk with you where every you go, and together they will learn things along the way.


Be ye as little children. Ok. When I was a child I would always run and jump in the mud puddle. Oh my shoes would get wet and my clothes would get dirty. But what is the mud puddle, is it something to avoid? Is it good or is it bad? How can you know? For if I had on clean clothes and did not want them soiled, then the mud puddle is bad and must be avoided. But if I had been on a long walk and my feet were sore and tired, then the mud puddle might bring relief to my aching feet. Should I say that this too is bad and something to be avoided? Only wisdom wrought through experience can tell you when to avoid a thing and when to jump full in.

Psalm 25:8-12
Good and upright is the Lord:
therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
The meek will he guide in judgment:
and the meek will he teach his way.
All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth
unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
For thy name's sake, O Lord,
pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
What man is he that feareth the Lord?
him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.


.

You asked me a question: "I'm trying to nail down an example, so as to know what to avoid." Why do you need to know what to avoid? At my age, I'm not going to try different things to see if they work. You young bucks can do that and if it works? Well that was of the Lord. If it doesn't work? It was of the flesh.

This is your statement and you've made it several times off and on. "we have but to follow the Spirit of the Lord who will guide us down the path." Follow the Spirit you say. Ok, I'm listening. That phrase is tossed around by many good men, I've never heard anyone tell me how that is done. Just how does one "follow the Spirit? How do you know that it is the Spirit of God and not a spirit of the devil. You might say, "walk in the Spirit" like Romans 8:1b "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." So, tell me how you do it?

 

[ezrider]

You asked me a question: "I'm trying to nail down an example, so as to know what to avoid." Why do you need to know what to avoid? At my age, I'm not going to try different things to see if they work. You young bucks can do that and if it works? Well that was of the Lord. If it doesn't work? It was of the flesh.

From the manner of your response, I would say that you missed the entire point of my comment. It is not if I'm suggesting you drop LCD or chew on some Shrooms so you can have some experience. I was talking about the desires of the heart. The need to know what to avoid comes from a desire of the heart to do it your way, to walk be your knowledge of what is good and evil. The need to know what to avoid comes from the lack of faith.

I have issues with my temper. I will get angry and throw things. Now you might say that is something I need to work on, it is a sin I must get rid of because anger is something we must avoid. But I have seen my anger for something different. You see, my anger is like the rumple strips on the side of the road, if I begin to fall asleep it will wake me up to remind me I am drifting off coarse. When I recognize that I am getting frustrated and getting angry, it is a reminder that I am walking in the flesh and letting the things of this world consume me.

This is your statement and you've made it several times off and on. "we have but to follow the Spirit of the Lord who will guide us down the path." Follow the Spirit you say. Ok, I'm listening. That phrase is tossed around by many good men, I've never heard anyone tell me how that is done. Just how does one "follow the Spirit? How do you know that it is the Spirit of God and not a spirit of the devil. You might say, "walk in the Spirit" like Romans 8:1b "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." So, tell me how you do it?

How do I do it? I do not study the Bible any longer. I do not rely my Bible to teach me. I have set it aside, so that I am able to listen to the Spirit of the Lord who dwells within me as he speaks to my heart and mind. Yet even so, I find it requires much faith, because understanding often only comes when I begin to express that which lays upon my heart, and then the scriptures that I studied years ago would suddenly call to remembrance, and then when I look it up my faith would grow. But you must be willing to question every thing you have learned.

Chopper, if I recall what you have shared from your postings, you have been in the ministry for 40 years now. You say that you have been called to be a teacher. I know that you try and study the Bible daily, both the Old Testament and the New. After 40 years wandering in the wilderness, you have eaten the book, over and over again, yet still ask how does one follow after the Spirit? Well if you want to learn to listen to and follow after the Spirit, then you will have to put your Bible down. You've studied it for 40 years, it is a well that you have stored up within your heart, now draw upon that well and begin to learn to express that Word as it lays upon your heart.

I know that you believe with all your heart that the Spirit of the Lord dwells within your heart. Then let that Word speak! Speak what you believe in your heart, if it is true it will be established, if it is false it will be cast to the ground, but you will learn from it none the less. Believe in Him who dwells within you. But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

Who am I to tell you what you must do? If I said to click your heals three times and say there's no place like home, would you take me seriously? I hope not, yet I am afraid there are many who would. I could offer you a challenge, but I can make no promises. Jesus fasted for forty days and nights before he was tempted of the devil in the wilderness. Can you put away your Bible for forty days? Do not study it, and do not read it. Only meditate and think upon the word as it exists within your mind and heart. Then after the 40 days have passed, without quoting any scripture, tell us then about Jesus and the gospel message. For the word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth and in thy heart; That is the word of Faith.

2 Cor 3:1-3
Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.


I do not want to hear you tell me about the words written in ink, I want you to tell me the Word as it is written upon your heart.


.

 

[Chopper]

Thank you Friend for your reply and good words. I appreciate your honesty and humility. It is true that I still study the two Covenants each day. As you said, I'm called to be a Teacher of God's Word. His Commands, Statues, and rules. Not as a Law to obtain a right standing before Jehovah my Elohim, but to know what pleases God.

The wealth of Knowledge that I've gained over the past 40 years has been stored up in my mind and heart for other people. I don't want the knowledge of God's Word to serve me. I have been called to serve others with the precious Word that flows out of my heart.

This verse is special to me....Nehemiah 8:9 And Nehemiah, which is the Tirshatha, and Ezra the priest the scribe, and the Levites that taught the people, said unto all the people, This day is holy unto the LORD your God; mourn not, nor weep. For all the people wept, when they heard the words of the law.

The impact of hearing the Law read to them, greatly effected the people. The same thing happens to me EZ. I simply cannot put God's Word to me down for 40 days, sorry. The Word is my life blood. To teach God's Word to others is my entire life.

I'm blessed by your system of heart knowledge leading you thru life without further need for Word study. I have had two strokes and one heart attack. My memory is non existent. If I try and recall something from the past that I've studied, I can't recall it, if it will benefit me. On the other hand, if I'm teaching someone, the Scriptures flow as needed. The presence of the Spirit of YHWH is working thru me to aid someone in need. This is my life.

When ever the need to help others ceases, so will I. I have no reason to live other than to serve others to know our Heavenly Father and Jesus the Son of God better, and to teach others to love God with all their heart, mind and strength.

I Love You my friend. You certainly are a blessing to all who read the posts that come from your heart. I mean that!! You and I are quite different. Different calls from God. I can't be like you, and you can't be like me. Brothers just the same.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I, like you, Chopper, will cease trying to study and to lead folks to the cross when I pass over. When the LORD calls, it is best to answer and to remain true to that calling. But I worry when some people cannot love others that are not like them.

 

[Chopper]

Hi old Buddy. Thanks for your approval, that means a lot, coming from you. A leopard can't change his spots and neither can I. I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, nor am I ashamed of the Word of our ever living God. After 40 years of living in this Book, I'm always drawn to it. Those Words are ALIVE, and they keep me alive as well. I can't go a day without handling the Words of life, so I can live and help others with their spiritual needs.

 

[for_his_glory]

First, none of us can be like God or be God as Satan thinks he can be. We can be like God only in His attributes of love and compassion towards others. We are not going to rule from His throne, but will be with Jesus as He sits in His throne of glory at the right hand of God when that of the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we will be with the Lord forever. Colossians chapter 3 gives us instruction who and how we are to be while here on this earth until we are caught up to be with Jesus forever.