Bible Study Say not in thine heart...

[ezrider]

I Love You my friend. You certainly are a blessing to all who read the posts that come from your heart. I mean that!! You and I are quite different. Different calls from God. I can't be like you, and you can't be like me. Brothers just the same.

Thank you Chopper for those kind words, they restore my faith. You and I are quite different, yet none the less, just the same. While I do not study the Bible and longer, nor do I choose what to think upon. I only listen to what others are are saying, and when the thought takes hold, I follow it. You my friend with your gentle and humble nature and by your commentary have served to me many inspirational thoughts that have marked the path I now walk.

While you are sure of your calling as a teacher, I do not know mine, and to be quite honest, a part of me doesn't even want to know. For now I am content to sit under my vine and under my fig tree in the garden of God, where I am at peace with the Lord.

But Bill made a comment that struck me, and that was to lead folk to the cross. I agree, there are those who were called to lead people to the cross, but that is not my calling. For I have seen the armor of God that I put on, feet shod with the gospel of peace? I did not know peace; And the shoes I wore were boots of destruction. By this I mean that for all I could do, I could not lead them past the cross of Christ, it was only in me to lead them to their death. But I have no desire in calling people to their death in Christ, I am listening for the voice who calls them forth from the grave.

You may know what your calling is, maybe someday I will know what mine was; but you will always remain in my heart a cherished brother in Christ.


Now with that said, as a teacher of God's word, would you care to share your thoughts on the meaning of Romans 10:5-8 and Deuteronomy 30:11-14 as it pertains to the OP?

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[ezrider]

First, none of us can be like God or be God as Satan thinks he can be. We can be like God only in His attributes of love and compassion towards others. We are not going to rule from His throne, but will be with Jesus as He sits in His throne of glory at the right hand of God when that of the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we will be with the Lord forever. Colossians chapter 3 gives us instruction who and how we are to be while here on this earth until we are caught up to be with Jesus forever.

Thank you for your response. This fits in nicely with my OP. I am not going to disagree with your statement or your belief. But what I want to know is how do you see your comment "but will be with Jesus as He sits in His throne of glory at the right hand of God when that of the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we will be with the Lord forever" as it relates to the Romans 10:5-8. When I read your comment as you have written it, I can't help but to see it as in the context of saying who shall go up to Heaven for us, that is to say to bring Christ down from above. You are waiting for the New Jerusalem and the Lord to be brought down from above, and then you will be forever with the Lord; that is the way I read your comment. I would like to know how you see and apply these verses, which are the focus of this OP.

Romans 10:5-8
For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Deuteronomy 30:11-14
For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

 

[Chopper]

Thank you Chopper for those kind words, they restore my faith. You and I are quite different, yet none the less, just the same. While I do not study the Bible and longer, nor do I choose what to think upon. I only listen to what others are are saying, and when the thought takes hold, I follow it. You my friend with your gentle and humble nature and by your commentary have served to me many inspirational thoughts that have marked the path I now walk.

While you are sure of your calling as a teacher, I do not know mine, and to be quite honest, a part of me doesn't even want to know. For now I am content to sit under my vine and under my fig tree in the garden of God, where I am at peace with the Lord.

But Bill made a comment that struck me, and that was to lead folk to the cross. I agree, there are those who were called to lead people to the cross, but that is not my calling. For I have seen the armor of God that I put on, feet shod with the gospel of peace? I did not know peace; And the shoes I wore were boots of destruction. By this I mean that for all I could do, I could not lead them past the cross of Christ, it was only in me to lead them to their death. But I have no desire in calling people to their death in Christ, I am listening for the voice who calls them forth from the grave.

You may know what your calling is, maybe someday I will know what mine was; but you will always remain in my heart a cherished brother in Christ.


Now with that said, as a teacher of God's word, would you care to share your thoughts on the meaning of Romans 10:5-8 and Deuteronomy 30:11-14 as it pertains to the OP?

.

I was certainly blessed by your kind and gracious words EZ, thank you so very much. I see you as a Theologian, and a good one at that. I've never met a man who can go as deep as you into a particular portion of Scripture and bring forth it's meaning. Apparently, the process of your thinking which is more Revelation than surface knowledge of Scripture like I do, you go deeper in the Spirit to bring out the mystery of it.

You are an amazing Man of God EZ. I honor you as one who is above me in the very deep things of the Spirit. I, as well as you, will always have fond memories of your friendship with me. Thank you.

Now, to answer your questions about the two Scriptures. I must say that between the Law given thru Moses, and the Righteousness that comes thru Christ Jesus are like night and day. One was for the Jew, and the other is for the Christian. One thru Moses, the other thru Jesus. One that was temporary because it was impossible to fully comply and live by it, and the other which is everlasting because it is placed in the heart and not just the mind like the Law.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

I added Verse 4 because that validates your OP. Jesus the Son of God fulfilled the Law, therefore the Law is null and void as to obtaining righteousness that saves. Believing by faith in the Son of God is the path of obtaining His righteousness which is awarded to the Believer at the time of their Salvation and being a New Creation.

As far as V.7 goes, I simply believe that because of the supernatural imparting of the Nature of God, His ways, His Commandments which are now written upon our hearts, instead of on external tablets of stone, there is no need to send someone to heaven of into the deep for such knowledge. If so, that would be like throwing the Christ out of Heaven because He was of no use to mankind....

Deuteronomy 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? No need, In Jesus, it is written on my heart.

Deuteronomy 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

In all of this, I see an attitude of the pious and proud, to elevate oneself above Christ Jesus, even God Himself, and seek the answers to life and Righteousness from somewhere in heaven other than what God Almighty has planed out of His will for mankind.

In other words, the Law of Moses is no good, neither is what Jesus did. Real knowledge of the spiritual is found beyond God, and the arrogant man must be greater than God, like Satan tried, and secure the answers to life himself, apart from God and His Son.

Jehovah our Elohim is everything to mankind!! There is no other greater than El. Our God is supreme in the Heavens. He is Majesty on high. His Son, Jesus the Christ, is the Source of Righteousness for all who believe on and in Him. There is no other name in heaven for men to be saved other than Jesus, in His Name.

God bless you my good Brother, in Jesus Name. I Love You.

 

[reba]

Rom_5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

 

[for_his_glory]

Thank you for your response. This fits in nicely with my OP. I am not going to disagree with your statement or your belief. But what I want to know is how do you see your comment "but will be with Jesus as He sits in His throne of glory at the right hand of God when that of the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we will be with the Lord forever" as it relates to the Romans 10:5-8. When I read your comment as you have written it, I can't help but to see it as in the context of saying who shall go up to Heaven for us, that is to say to bring Christ down from above. You are waiting for the New Jerusalem and the Lord to be brought down from above, and then you will be forever with the Lord; that is the way I read your comment. I would like to know how you see and apply these verses, which are the focus of this OP.

Romans 10:5-8
For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Deuteronomy 30:11-14
For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

I'm going by the first scripture you gave in the OP in Isaiah 14:12-14 as Satan's condition of the heart was to be higher than God and drawing others to him as their god.

The condition of our heart is to be like God in His attributes of unconditional love and compassion. When we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior we are then risen with Christ and seek those things from above where Christ sits on the right hand of God that we be like Christ and no longer seek those things of the earth. It was Jesus whom God raised from the grave an ascended into heaven as being the one who shall go up to heaven that we now will have eternal life with Him per the finished works He did on the cross. Before Jesus ascended He said He would send us another comforter/teacher in that of Gods Holy Spirit that we can now know the mind of Christ as we seek those things from above and not the things of this earth so we remain pleasing to the Father and as a royal priesthood, 1Peter 2:9, we will reign with Jesus forever in the New Jerusalem.

 

[ezrider]

I am quite surprised that so very few have participated in or commented on this thread, but maybe the subject matter was a little too close to the heart? So thank you Chopper and to the rest who participated in this thread.

If I could leave you with one thought, then that would be a caution towards the over reliance on the Bible as the word of God rather than the Spirit of Christ who dwells within you. Sometimes it appears to me as if the Bible is held up as nothing more than an idol or some totem through which you can hear your God. Does the Spirit of the Lord need the words of a book to communicate to you? If so, what does that say about the power of the Holy Spirit? For the Word is nigh thee, even in the mouth and in thy heart.

There was one other comment that basically said, if its in the Bible, then you can either believe it or not; which again, missed the point of the thread altogether. As if because it is promised in the scripture, then it is ok to have a heart that is lifted up? Do you put your trust into the words of the scripture? Or do you put your trust in the Spirit of the Lord? We have been called to follow but one voice.


Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Now consider for a moment the man Jesus, born after the flesh the Son of David, the heir and King of Israel. That was his birthright in the flesh according to the scriptures and according to the law. That is what the disciples and the people of the time expected. But we can see what mind was in Jesus when he was tempted of the devil in the wilderness.

Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Consider this temptation of Christ in the wilderness, for if this mind be in you also, then so also is this temptation. What is the prevalent message of the church, is it not a promise that they will inherit all these things if they will fall down and worship me? Demonstrated by their obedience to the law? Should we consider these positions more carefully with the mind of Christ, and not just the desires of our heart? For say not in thine heart…


The scriptures declare that we are to be created in the image of Christ. But what image is it that we hold of Christ? Do we fancy the image as the one who is a King and conqueror, or do we humble ourselves in the image of a servant, the image of a brother, and the image of a friend?


Philippians 2:5-8
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.