[__ Science __ ] Scientific argument for God's existence

[Edward]

I don't need to study evolution to decide whether it's true or not, I know it isn't. Of course I did learn about it in school and I didn't believe it then even though I also was not a Christian then.

Me too Sister! I wasn't a Christian then, and I remember walking home after evo class and we was talking about it...I told my friend as we passed a mud puddle...there's your mom!
Lol!


That video I just posted addresses all of what you said and asks our resident atheists a simple question, which he will not be able to answer!

 

[Edward]

that is not a command to kill babies - there is a specific reason those specific people and all their possessions were to be annihilated -

But they were included, so it sure sounds relevant.

 

[Boaz]

What? I am responding to everything said to me and that is not what others here are doing. Many of my points have been ignored, I have addressed all of your points. I am listening to what you say I just disagree with it. If your god is real then you don't have to worry about any of my questions.

Please don't say that I think I am more intelligent, I never said that. Why do you constantly misrepresent me?

Well ok then. It seems you think that I should just accept whatever you or anyone says because they love me? That is bad epistemology. I want to know what is true and what is not true, that is my goal. It is not a game or yanking anyone's chain. do you care what is true?

Nobody thinks you should accept what you say because we love you. I didn't say you weren't responding to what we said, I said you weren't actually listening and considering what we said. Two different things. Your responses were always using the Bible itself to contradict what we said. Or to show us how bad God is and why you don't want to believe in a God like that. You want to know what is true and not true but it seems to me you feel you already know what is or isn't true. None of your responses indicated otherwise.

 

[Boaz]

Nobody thinks you should accept what you say because we love you. I didn't say you weren't responding to what we said, I said you weren't actually listening and considering what we said. Two different things. Your responses were always using the Bible itself to contradict what we said. Or to show us how bad God is and why you don't want to believe in a God like that. You want to know what is true and not true but it seems to me you feel you already know what is or isn't true. None of your responses indicated otherwise.

Should read accept what we say. Sorry

 

[Clizby]

The millions of single mothers frantically trying to raise their children by themselves, while holding down a job, might disagree that no one is harmed.

As long as they made the decision for themselves then no one is harmed. There are many single mothers that planned it. for those that did not but had consensual sex then we should help them, but we need to let women make decisions for themselves just like we let men do. If they need help instead of telling them that what they did is sinful and god wants to torture them forever we should help them as much as they want.

The millions of men dwelling alone who have a substantial fraction of their pay sent to a woman they don't even like might also disagree.

Do you not understand personal responsibility and moral behavior? Life is hard and it is full of consequences to our actions. How about we teach a better morality to kids other than what the bible says. Then people can make better decisions for themselves.

Those who have caught penicillin resistant venereal diseases and AIDS might disagree. Millions of emotionally scarred youngsters who have been hurt so badly that they can no longer allow themselves to love might disagree.

These don't seem like consensual relationships to me.

You have not proven that serial fornication is better for people. Millions have been harmed.

I never said serial fornication was good. I actually said it causes harm but consensual intimate sex between consenting adults was good whether married or not.

Youngsters having sex with each other at 13 don't have any idea what they are doing to themselves or each other.

I have always said between adults.

Please stop misrepresenting me.

 

[Truthfrees]

But they were included, so it sure sounds relevant.

not at all - if we start taking scripture commands out of context we come up with all kinds of crimes being attributed to God

God commits no crimes - God commands no one to commit a crime

God does not want us relabelling crimes as a command of God because we saw something that looks similar in the OT

 

[Clizby]

Yeah but that was a gene pool problem is why God did that. Genesis 6 brought that on...

Nope.

O daughter of Babylon, doomed to be destroyed, blessed shall he be who repays you with what you have done to us! Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock! Psalm 137:8-9.

Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. Hosea 13:16

 

[Clizby]

God does not tell anyone to kill infants

He even blesses some people that do it.

O daughter of Babylon, doomed to be destroyed, blessed shall he be who repays you with what you have done to us! Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock! Psalm 137:8-9.

 

[Edward]

not at all - if we start taking scripture commands out of context we come up with all kinds of crimes being attributed to God

God commits no crimes - God commands no one to commit a crime

God does not want us relabelling crimes as a command of God because we saw something that looks similar in the OT

Oh yes Sir Brother. I agree with you! I only posted that because he said it was in our bible, and you said it was not. And technically, it is. So that is the only context in which I was responding.

And you are correct, God does not commit crimes and does not lead His people to commit sins either.

 

[Truthfrees]

He even blesses some people that do it.

O daughter of Babylon, doomed to be destroyed, blessed shall he be who repays you with what you have done to us! Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock! Psalm 137:8-9.

God didn't say that - the psalmist did - read the whole chapter - the babies of the israelites had been murdered cruelly and this psalmist was wishing for revenge - but God Himself commanded us to leave revenge to Him - Deuteronomy 32:35

 

[Truthfrees]

Oh yes Sir Brother. I agree with you! I only posted that because he said it was in our bible, and you said it was not. And technically, it is. So that is the only context in which I was responding.

And you are correct, God does not commit crimes and does not lead His people to commit sins either.

amen - the OT is very hard to read and even harder to understand - imo those who do not believe in God should not read it -

imo only those who believe the OT is to be used today to live a Godly life should read it because only they will take great care in finding out exactly what God said - otherwise people get crazy uninformed ideas of what God is talking about

 

[Clizby]

Still you chose to put your faith in evolution

I don't need faith in something that can be demonstrated. Do you know why scientists think that evolution happened?

as you said you can put your faith anywhere.

That is not what I said, I said faith can be used to believe anything.

The type of faith that believes in God is not the same type of faith. It is bigger and deeper than that and isn't blind and if it is ever given to you you will know what I am talking about, until then, you won't.

If you believe it is given to me by God I presume why blame me for not believing?

I don't need to study evolution to decide whether it's true or not, I know it isn't.

This is bad epistemology. How can you know an idea is untrue without investigating it? There is overwhelming evidence that evolution happened, would you want to know about this evidence? Do you want to know what is true or not? Evolution could be true and god still exists.

Of course I did learn about it in school and I didn't believe it then even though I also was not a Christian then. You say evolution has been demonstrated to be true. That is a false statement. If anything the opposite is true.

You are just wrong. You want to tell me evolution is not true when I have studied the evidence and you have not. Can't you see the problem here?

Even much of the scientific community has refuted it.

This is untrue. If evolution was somehow refuted there would be a Nobel prize for the people that could prove it did not happen.

What honesty would say is that it demonstrated enough validity to satisfy you. Or in other words you kind of liked that explanation. What science often does when they're about to be proven wrong is just add a few billion years to the equation."Prove my theory wrong now!!" they yell.

Whatever. This is nonsense. You simply do not know what you are talking about, you admitted it when you said you do not know what the evidence is that supports evolution.

Can you prove God doesn't exist? And before we go way back to where you claimed you weren't saying He doesn't exist only that you don't believe He exists. He may or may not exist. That would be an agnostc. Yet a few posts ago you referred to your "fellow atheists." Yanking our chain.

Nope. Here is the definition of an atheist from dictionary.com:

a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

I lack a belief as the second part of the definition states.

Here is agnostic:

a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

I don't believe that if a god exists it cannot be known. If a god exists we should be able to know about its existence. I don't make a claim that the physical is all there is.

One last time please don't misrepresent me that I claim god does not exist.

 

[Truthfrees]

This is untrue. If evolution was somehow refuted there would be a Nobel prize for the people that could prove it did not happen.

lol - like the anti-God agencies of this world are ever going to give any credit to God even if it hits them in the face

the truth is God reveals to everyone His existence but not everyone wants to look at it and/or admit it - Romans 1:16-32 - Romans 1:20

 

[Clizby]

Nobody thinks you should accept what you say because we love you. I didn't say you weren't responding to what we said, I said you weren't actually listening and considering what we said. Two different things. Your responses were always using the Bible itself to contradict what we said. Or to show us how bad God is and why you don't want to believe in a God like that. You want to know what is true and not true but it seems to me you feel you already know what is or isn't true. None of your responses indicated otherwise.

Well you can believe me or call me a liar, Your choice.

Have you considered what I said? Do you consider actions that god did to be moral as I pointed out? You never responded to that.

 

[Clizby]

God didn't say that - the psalmist did - read the whole chapter - the babies of the israelites had been murdered cruelly and this psalmist was wishing for revenge - but God Himself commanded us to leave revenge to Him - Deuteronomy 32:35

I reread the chapter and I tend to agree with you.

But what about:

Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. Hosea 13:16

I will deliver this people from the power of the grave;
I will redeem them from death.
Where, O death, are your plagues?
Where, O grave, is your destruction?
“I will have no compassion,
even though he thrives among his brothers.
An east wind from the Lord will come,
blowing in from the desert;
his spring will fail
and his well dry up.
His storehouse will be plundered
of all its treasures.
The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
because they have rebelled against their God.
They will fall by the sword;
their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
their pregnant women ripped open.

14-16. Prophets speak for God right?

 

[Clizby]

lol - like the anti-God agencies of this world are ever going to give any credit to God even if it hits them in the face

Disproving evolution does not prove god exists. Your slander of their character is unwarranted. Do you really believe the massive conspiracy that is happening if evolution was untrue and all the scientists are in on it? Especially since you don't know what the evidence is.

the truth is God reveals to everyone His existence but not everyone wants to look at it and/or admit it - Romans 1:16-32 - Romans 1:20

Demonstrate this book is God sword.

 

[Clizby]

Me too Sister! I wasn't a Christian then, and I remember walking home after evo class and we was talking about it...I told my friend as we passed a mud puddle...there's your mom!
Lol!

No one thinks a puddle turned into anything.

That video I just posted addresses all of what you said and asks our resident atheists a simple question, which he will not be able to answer!

I will watch it and let you know.

 

[Clizby]

read the whole chapter Hosea 13:1-16 -

when the prophet sees what will happen to them he DOESN'T say "the Lord will dash your babies to the ground" - the only thing the prophet sees the Lord do is send a wind that dries up their water which means trouble

the rest of what happens to them is not God directly doing anything to them - it is a result of them wandering out on their own and encountering a cruel world full of perils that God promised to protect them from if they stayed in covenant with Him

Hosea 13:9-10 says God is their help - so they could have returned to Him at anytime and all the trouble that comes upon them due to their rejection and rebellion toward God could be reversed -

This is 9-10:

You are destroyed, Israel,
because you are against me, against your helper.
Where is your king, that he may save you?
Where are your rulers in all your towns,
of whom you said,
‘Give me a king and princes’?

Nowhere does it say that they could avoid it. It gives the reason that god will destroy them.

It says that this is a punishment from God. It says these people must bear the guilt.

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
because they have rebelled against their God.
They will fall by the sword;
their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
their pregnant women ripped open.

 

[Clizby]

there is no need to disprove evolution as it has not yet been proven

Do you even want to know why you are wrong here?

your slander of God and creation scientists is not appreciated either

What slander? I gave scripture to back up my claims. You gave no evidence to back up yours.

if you stop slandering creation scientists i will stop slandering evolution scientists

Where did I slander creation scientists? Maybe you should stop slandering anyone because it is the right thing to do.

demonstrate the bible is God's word? - is that what you are asking? - that sounds like a good idea - not sure if i can do it or not -

That is what I am asking.

 

[Truthfrees]

This is 9-10:

You are destroyed, Israel,
because you are against me, against your helper.
Where is your king, that he may save you?
Where are your rulers in all your towns,
of whom you said,
‘Give me a king and princes’?

Nowhere does it say that they could avoid it. It gives the reason that god will destroy them.

It says that this is a punishment from God. It says these people must bear the guilt.

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
because they have rebelled against their God.
They will fall by the sword;
their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
their pregnant women ripped open.

Hosea 13:4 and Hosea 13:9 says God is their Savior and their Help - they knew from God's words that if they turned to Him He would save them - Zechariah 1:3 - Jeremiah 29:12-14 - Deuteronomy 30 - Deuteronomy 8 - Deuteronomy 6 - Deuteronomy 31

where is the word "punishment"? - or "punishment from God"?

if you are living in a safe house and the guardians tell you not to go outside their protection and you do and you get killed then what happens to you is a result of you wandering into unsafe territory