Bible Study Scriptural Balance

[smaller]

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Are you saying that if a born again believer on Monday is out soul winning, then from Tuesday till the next Sunday then dont have a second of God in their Head because they are binging online playing poker, that...those 6 days they are not practicing their faith-fruit they are lost, but that the one day they were soul winning they are saved?

So, are you saying that The Blood Atonement is inactive and not in effect if a person is not involved in spiritual fruit bearing if they are awake?

Explain to me exactly what makes you believe that being born again, stops being so?
Explain to me exactly what makes you think the Blood Atonement stops Redeeming those that are not "bearing fruit"?

There are proponents on both sides of the debate who tip their doctrinal boats over.

Equally, there are posters who lean way over heavy on the other side of the boat "save the whole of me" boat, and they also land in somewhat vacant space when it comes to balancing the ledgers of scripture.

There are remedies to understandings that do not require scriptural boat tipping aka discounting and discarding.

I've given this example (to you specifically) many times, and have been met with silence.

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

IF we observe Paul closely in the above, we should be able to perceive both eternal life to one party and eternal damnation to another party.

We are not to be slaves of the other party. Nor would we promote the salvation of that party or the promotion of it's works.

 

[smaller]

True, and the "living" will show ("justify") if it be salvation or no, for without faith we are absented from grace, which is what we are saved "by"--"through" the gift of faith (Eph 2:8).

Appreciate you input Smaller!

I accept Kidrons conclusions as it pertains to the believer. There is a but attached. A big but.

 

[Kidron]

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

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Thank you for posting a typical verse from the heretics Gospel's of choice that cant be talking about a CHRISTIAN.
Its NOT talking about a BELIEVER (CHRISTIAN).

All you have to do it read it.
Not that difficult...

NOTICE...."I NEVER KNEW YOU"..
SO, HOW can this be talking to or About a Born Again believer, that GOD is living inside of, who is IN CHRIST, and is BORN AGAIN, who has become "bone of Jesus Bones and Flesh of Jesus Flesh", who is "seated in Heavenly places with Jesus", and ..."as Jesus is SO ARE WE IN THIS WORLD"..
So, CAN THAT PERSON BE SOMEONE THAT """"" I NEVER KNEW YOU'"'''?
HELLO, ???.......HELLO ??????????
JESUS NEVER KNEW someone that He is living inside of, and is "in Christ"?
So really, its the blind leading the blind while they trip over Matthew.
REMARKABLE THEOLOGY, isnt it?
GALATIANS 1:8
Welcome home.

 

[smaller]

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Thank you for posting a typical verse from the heretics Gospel's of choice that cant be talking about a CHRISTIAN.
Its NOT talking about a BELIEVER (CHRISTIAN).

All you have to do it read it.
Not that difficult...

NOTICE...."I NEVER KNEW YOU"..
SO, HOW can this be talking to or About a Born Again believer, that GOD is living inside of, who is IN CHRIST, and is BORN AGAIN, who has become "bone of Jesus Bones and Flesh of Jesus Flesh", who is "seated in Heavenly places with Jesus", and ..."as Jesus is SO ARE WE IN THIS WORLD"..
So, CAN THAT PERSON BE SOMEONE THAT """"" I NEVER KNEW YOU'"'''?
HELLO, ???.......HELLO ??????????
JESUS NEVER KNEW someone that He is living inside of, and is "in Christ"?
So really, its the blind leading the blind while they trip over Matthew.
REMARKABLE THEOLOGY, isnt it?
GALATIANS 1:8
Welcome home.

I only appreciate your reading/comprehension skills as far as they go. They don't go far enough.

 

[smaller]

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Thank you for posting a typical verse from the heretics Gospel's of choice that cant be talking about a CHRISTIAN.
Its NOT talking about a BELIEVER (CHRISTIAN).All you have to do it read it.Not that difficult...

Your method is personal evasion. I don't accept that as legitimate method.

 

[netchaplain]

Explain to me exactly what makes you believe that being born again, stops being so?
Explain to me exactly what makes you think the Blood Atonement stops Redeeming those that are not "bearing fruit"?

The Christian life will continue to evince to some degree the presence of the sinful nature (old man), thus believers cannot live the rest of their lives perfectly, but as the "conforming" continues, the life will eventually show the majority of the walk to be "by the Spirit"; and the type of sin committed, esp. continuously repeated ones will also be evidence of the life.

 

[Kidron]

Your method is personal evasion. I don't accept that as legitimate method.

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DO YOU enjoy eating you own baloney on a Christian Forum?
How about impugning others with no evidence in sight?
You cant even read what i just showed you about Matthew, and actually respond to it.
But you can offer your 3rd grade sarcasm as a poor mans "dodge".
The truth is...I think its a "comprehension skills" issue regarding you , that ive noted before.
So, really, Smaller, just run along now.
Thx

K

 

[smaller]

Let's presume that Jesus is RIGHT. And that He WILL say this to "all" workers of iniquity.

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The very LAST thing that any believer should be kidding themselves about is that they do not work iniquity.

So, let's look again at Paul:

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Do you see where Paul might have very well LONGED to HEAR those same Words? And find LIFE therein?

You just have to dial in the hearing. Be honest about your "goals" in faith.

Do we think it is a reasonable expectation of faith in Christ to finally, finally be RID of this dilemma of the flesh?

Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Is there LIFE in the DIRE WORDS of God???

You better hope so!

 

[smaller]

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DO YOU enjoy eating you own baloney on a Christian Forum?
How about impugning others with no evidence in sight?
You cant even read what i just showed you about Matthew, and actually respond to it.

I just gave you a very explicit example. Actually a couple of them now.

No, I do not have to make a dishonest conclusion to arrive at your same sight (that believers are NOT sinners, which is NOT true) regarding believers security. But it is NOT the whole account of the Gospel. You're trying to save what can NOT be saved.

 

[Kidron]

but as the "conforming" continues, the life will eventually show the majority of the walk to be "by the Spirit"; .

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If that were true then churches would not be filled with the overweight living dead who have not led one soul to Christ in 50 years of being "saved".
The reality is, Net C, that 90% of Christians are sit at home do nothing Cable TV junkies who feel that if they show up on Sunday Morn, they have done God a favor.
These "life long believers" pull up to a stop light In their air conditioned sofas and see the dreaded "I'll work for food" sign guy sweating in the July heat, and have an internal "spiritual" battle if they try to give him $2 after they just left the restaurant a $75 dollar payment (following Sunday's message on, "the poor will always be with you") .
But you are correct about that 10% who are "sold out" "soldiers of the cross".
THERE ARE actually some believers whose spirituality is authentic.

 

[smaller]

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If that were true then churches would not be filled with the overweight living dead who have not led one soul to Christ in 50 years of being "saved".
The reality is, Net C, that 90% of Christians are sit at home do nothing Cable TV junkies who feel that if they show up on Sunday Morn, they have done God a favor.
These "life long believers" pull up to a stop light In their air conditioned sofas and see the dreaded "I'll work for food" sign guy sweating in the July heat, and have an internal "spiritual" battle if they try to give him $2 after they just left the restaurant a $75 dollar payment (following Sunday's message on, "the poor will always be with you") .
But you are correct about that 10% who are "sold out" "soldiers of the cross".
THERE ARE actually some believers whose spirituality is authentic.

We've all been treated to your "believers are not sinners" spiel here for awhile now. Most won't tolerate that cry and should not!

Here is where Paul landed in his own quite truthful claim, which is the exact opposite of what you are trying:

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Not "was." Am, present tense, after salvation.

 

[Kidron]

The very LAST thing that any believer should be kidding themselves about is that they do not work iniquity.

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And that is why Romans 4:8 is in the new Testament.
also Hebrews 8:12

 

[smaller]

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And that is why Romans 4:8 is in the new Testament.
also Hebrews 8:12

That does NOT mean we are not sinners or that sin will NOT be imputed.

 

[Kidron]

We've all been treated to your "believers are not sinners"

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if you keep posting what you pretend i said.... that isnt true, instead of posting a single quote, then i might have to consider that the level of your dishonestly needs some deep deep repentance.
Know what i mean, smaller?
So, listen up, ...
I have never said that a Christian never sins, i have only said that a Christian is not charged with sins, as Jesus has been charged with them ALL on a CROSS
YOU GOT THAT?
Romans 4:8
Hebrews 8:12.
I have only said that the blood of Christ removes our sins, which leaves us sinless.
"""" as JESUS IS, so are WE in this WORLD"..."we have the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST""..
I have only taught that the "Gift of Righteousness" is a fact of the Atonement.
YOU GOT THAT?
So, dont accuse with your deceit = of ME saying what i have not said.
Be careful now what you continue to twist in my direction, smaller, or i might have to change your name to Jethro JLB.

K

 

[Kidron]

That does NOT mean we are not sinners or that sin will NOT be imputed.

listen up.
YOU, or any believer is.... "the righteousness of God, IN CHRIST".
"as Jesus IS so are WE in this WORLD"....
Does that sound like you are a "sinner"?
HAVE YOU ACTUALLY NOT UNDERSTOOD THAT.. "FAITH IS COUNTED AS RIGHTEOUSNESS"?????
Better read your bible more carefully.
It might help.
(new testament).(try it)
(read Paul's stuff)..(stay out of Matthew and James) for a good long time.

 

[smaller]

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if you keep posting what you pretend i said.... that isnt true, instead of posting a single quote, then i might have to consider that the level of your dishonestly needs some deep deep repentance.
Know what i mean, smaller?

Your trying to drive one way on a two way street. Good way to have a collision.

So, listen up, ...
I have never said that a Christian never sins, i have only said that a Christian is not charged with sins, as Jesus has been charged with them ALL on a CROSS
YOU GOT THAT?

That extension does NOT extend to this party in the flesh:

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Got it? There is a PRICE IN THE NOW that is garnered for "slaveship" to SIN. And that party will pay a permanent price in the LoF for it's actions in "believers."

Romans 4:8
Hebrews 8:12.
I have only said that the blood of Christ removes our sins, which leaves us sinless.

Only if we can't see the obvious. Paul was not just Paul in the flesh.

I have only taught that the "Gift of Righteousness" is a fact of the Atonement.
YOU GOT THAT?

Atonement only goes so far. And not as far as you think you see.

So, dont accuse with your deceit = of saying what i have not said.
Be careful now what you continue to twist in my direction, smaller.
K

The equations you apply are not working out. Paul NEVER claimed to be sinless. He claimed the exact opposite. 1 Tim. 1:15.

Nor did Paul claim that there was no price for sin. There is a charge for sin. That price is called "loss."

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

 

[smaller]

listen up.
YOU, or any believer is.... "the righteousness of God, IN CHRIST".
"as Jesus IS so are WE in this WORLD"....

I do not recall being called into dishonesty myself.

Paul was exceptionally honest about his factual condition in the flesh, recognizing that the Spirit is AGAINST and CONTRARY to it. Gal. 5:17.

Your claim appears to be that this contrariness doesn't exist. It DOES exist.

The instant you understand THIS about sin, you'll stop trying to justify the devils works in anyone.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[for_his_glory]

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Remarkable that you would actually try to teach that '"faith without works cant save anyone.""
Well, at least this time you didnt try to teach that we are regenerated in water.
Thanks for not posting that piece of remarkable error again., JP
So, your "stuff" is a typical doctrinal left turn that happens when someone gets their idea of Salvation from James instead of from, "The Grace of God".
Your "stuff", is to teach that faith + works saves you, which of course is works based heresy that denies the Cross or the blood on it..
= Typical Galatians 1:8
The fact is.... neither faith nor works saves anyone, as that would be you saving yourself by them.
The answer is....: God SAVED you, based on Jesus dying for you, as this is Salvation or Redemption.
All faith does is meet God's condition for Him to Save you.
What literally is used to save you is Jesus's sacrifice.
Strange that the 3 main offenders of the Atonement on this forum are JP, JB, and JLB.
Same church???? that will fade away if not exercised.
Same error.

What about those in the OT, how were they saved by God if it wasn't by walking in faith as Gods grace found favor in them. We have no works of our own, but that of the works of the Lord He has given us to continue in like that of Matthew 25:34-40. Don't forget, faith without works is dead faith, James 2:14-26.

 

[for_his_glory]

Our state is the minds condition that needs to be purified on a daily basis as that of Colossians Chapter three if we are truly risen with Christ then we will mortify our members that we walk in God's statures as to how we are to present our self here on earth as it is in heaven. Will we miss the mark once in a while, yes, and when we do we need to take ownership of being disobedient to God and obedient to the flesh as we grow in Gods grace. Our works are not our own, but that of what Christ left for us to continue in, Matthew 25:34-40.

 

[Edward]

What hasn't been mentioned is that, God will not be mocked. Hearers of the word only, may be in for a surprise one day. If they've not produced any fruits...the branch will be pruned off of the tree and cast into the fire.

The blood sacrifice dealt with sin. But those who continue on their merry sinful way, and not maturing and bearing fruit...will be pruned.

Even ones chanting everything's good because of the atonement. We have to walk the walk and bear fruit or it makes a mockery of God's gift to us...and God will not be mocked.

There. That's what we were missing in this discussion. :wink