SDA's, JW's, Mormons, etc.

[Monkey Del]

Veritas, in many ways, I can be considered an SDA. I'm bound not to agree with everything with them.

The SDAs, and me, Do not believe the false teaching that sunday is God's sabbath. Nor that making any day the sabbath other than what God said the sabbath day was.

So Peter and Paul were false teachers? I do agree Sunday is not the sabbath....EVERYDAY is THE sabboth to a Christian. Everyday we are to live holy and serve God. Everyday we should pray and worship him.

Romans 12:1: I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

This is to be done daily. Otherwise you could never know the will of God.

The sabbath and the false sabbath in the end times will be very important. As far as I can tell.

How? Are you trying to live under the Law of Moses?

People who will accept sunday or any other false sabbath as God's apparently don't care about what God says.

Appearantly you don't care either. If you did you would believe Paul's writings...which came directly from God.

or prove me wrong with scripture saying sunday, or any other day besides the seventh day is God's sabbath. Anyone?

Jesus ressurected on the first day of the week (sunday). The early church met on the first day of the week;

Acts 20:"7": And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.


I treat everyday as a holy day.

My church meets on Sundays out of Convience for the work week. Most ppl are off on Sundays..both in my church and in the world.

We do meet on Wed nights as well....

THE problem with the SDA is they want to mix the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ....failing to keep either one.

They don't eat "unclean" animals according to the Law of Moses.

They observe the Sabboth.

Most believe in circummssion as being something relavent.

Does that make them a cult? No.

It just means they are wrong.

 

[Veritas]

Monkey Del wrote:

THE problem with the SDA is they want to mix the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ....failing to keep either one.

They don't eat "unclean" animals according to the Law of Moses.

They observe the Sabboth.

Most believe in circummssion as being something relavent.

Does that make them a cult? No.

It just means they are wrong.

I agree. I too believe SDA is in error at certain points; however, if they teach the doctrine of the Holy Trinity and teach that salvation is through the saving work of Jesus Christ, I believe its safe to say that the SDA Church is a Christian church body, and not a cult.

 

[Featherbop]

The southeast.

I called your bluff, baptists are not considered cults where your from. You made it up.

:roll:

I never said that anyone else did. I said I do. And I do. The majority of relgious people it seems everywhere, but sometimes greater in the south, are cult like or cult groups. Many churches teach falsely, do unchristian activities willingly, and are relgious nuts, and can easily be just plain mean, and unsensible people.

Cult members don't know they are cult members. Sometimes, I feel like "church gang" are the right words.

Besides, you live in canda, Jason, you must've searched the internet. you didn't go to the southeast US and research in one day did you?

 

[Rosie]

Re: SDA a cult?

Firstly, the JW and Mormons are not Christian. They teach and accept a different "gospel" as Veritas has explained.

What about the SDA?

Let us consider their claim that you MUST worship on the Sabbath.

Paul told the Colossians that the Sabbath was only a “shadow” that had passed away when the “substance” came with Christ (Col. 2:16–17). Paul affirmed that the entire table of the Mosaic Law “written and engraved on stone” (which included the Sabbath law) “was passing away” (2 Cor. 3:7, 10) and found its “end” (v. 13) in Christ. The New Testament repeatedly mentions that the Old Testament Jewish Law has been fulfilled by Christ (Rom. 10:4). Because of this fulfillment, “there is a change in the law” (Heb. 7:12).

The Sabbath command is the only one of the Ten Commandments that is not restated in the context of grace in the New Testament. This is a significant omission if it is supposed to be practiced by Christians today. Rather, the New Testament sanctions the first day of the week for Christian worship—a day which Paul himself practiced. The reasons for this are obvious. It is the day Christ arose, thus initiating the first day of the week for Christian celebration. Jesus’ first postresurrection appearances were on Sundays, thus establishing a pattern of expecting his presence on the first day of the week (cf. Mark 16:2; John 20:19, 26). Sunday is also the day the Holy Spirit baptized the disciples into the body of Christ (Acts 2:1–4; cf. 1 Cor. 12:13)—providing the birthday of the Christian church.

Thus, it became the practice of the apostolic church to meet on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2). In the last book of the New Testament, John the apostle was meditating on Sunday, the “Lord’s Day,” when he received a vision of Christ (Rev. 1:10), showing that the practice continued for many decades after the time of Christ. Indeed, the Christian church has continued this practice from the first century to the present.

.

And all this "apologetics" to somehow justify man's Sunday substitution for the Lord's Sabbath is also mentioned in Colossians, Chapter 2 verse 8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."


Re the Sabbath being a shadow, this is simply not so. The weekly Sabbath was not a shadow, but commemorative of creation (Exodus 20:11) and redemption (Deuteronomy 5:15), per the commandment. There were other sabbaths that were shadows, but not the weekly.




Exd 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exd 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Exd 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Exd 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


The Sabbath is hardly "not mentioned" in the NT, it's just the mentions are largely ignored by modern day "Sunday keepers" .


You say:

This is a significant omission if it is supposed to be practiced by Christians today.

Let's talk about significant omissions, shall we? Where do you find the command to replace the seventh day Sabbath with Sunday in the Scriptures? Did Christ keep Sabbath? Did Paul? Did either command anyone to commemorate the resurrection by going to church on Sunday?

Funny, I thought the commemoration of the resurrection of Christ for believers is found in the Baptism of believers (by immersion), not Sunday keeping.

 

[Vic C.]

Did either command anyone to commemorate the resurrection by going to church on Sunday?

Again, are we confusing a day of worship with God's day of rest? Sabbath=rest not worship.

First of all, nowhere in the Bible does it say we cannot worship on Sunday. This does not break the Sabbath command. Also, if I worship seven day a week, am I breaking the Sabbath? Do you consider prayer a form of worship? The Bible tells us to "Pray without ceasing." Where in the Bible does it say one must be in a house of worship during Sabbath? Lets look at the whole command...

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

I posted this in an earlier post, in a different thread...
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... bath#53924

The way I read and understand the Bible, I don't even see worship as a prerequisite for Sabbath-keeping. I see all the do's and don'ts, but nothing about worshipping.
Quote:
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Nope, nothing there.

Exo 31:14-16...
Exo 35:2-3...
Lev 16:31... (this is concerning the feasts only)
Num 28:9-10... (burnt offerings are a sabbath requirement)
Deu 5:14...
etc.

Now...How to keep the Sabbath...according the Law

1. No work is to be done at all
No watering the lawn, no working in the yard, no hobbies, etc. (that includes no PC's or internet either!) By law if a person did not stop all types of activity in honor of the Sabbath, he was breaking the law.

2. No kindling of a fire
You can't go into a restaurant and get a hamburger that's been flame broiled, you can't cook eggs, or pancakes in the morning because you'd be kindling a fire for cooking. (that is, if you even eat any of those things...but that is a different law)To drive a car would be to "kindle a fire" in the combustion chamber of your engine.

3. No traveling
The Jews added this law later on, allowing only a half mile of travel on the Sabbath which we see observed in the NT. But the law in it's pure state says "stay at home." If you kept this part of the law, you could not travel to your church gathering unless it was less than one-quarter mile away from home. If you had an emergency you could not drive to the hospital.

4. No trading (Amos 8:5)
If you happened to need gas to get to church service, you could not "trade" money for gasoline. You would not be allowed to buy a cassette tape of that morning's message or a book at the store. There is to be no exchanging of money for goods. Make sure you do no shopping whatsoever. You can't buy any ice cream for dessert after dinner or anything else. If you run out of food or drink at home you can’t go out to purchase any, you can’t even buy a stick of gum.

But then again, you wouldn't need gas, because you can't drive. So there goes the rest of the things.

6. You are to give twice as much on the Sabbath (Num. 28:9)
Is this practiced today in compliance with Old Testament law. Do Sabbatarian's really practice the law?

7. New showbread In the holy place (Lev. 24:8 )
This cannot be done today since there is no temple, so this part of the Sabbath cannot be followed by the church. The Sabbath was not made for the gentiles, but for the Jews and their offspring. (physical, not spiritual)

8.The last part of the requirements for keeping the Sabbath day law Is the penalty for breaking It. DEATH

(adapted from B. Stonebrakers trac Sabbath breakers with some emphasis added by me)

Here's a good question, Do you or your congregation work for 6 days? Or 5? The actual whole command is to work 6 days with only the 7th observed as a rest day. Many Sabbatarian's observe Sunday just like Saturday except for the gathering in Church (which there is no command to do). So if you're not doing this you're still breaking the Sabbath, by taking Sunday off.

Was there ever a law God gave that reversed ANY of the Sabbath day restrictions? NO! Were the punishments ever negated or are they still enforced? One has to be consistent, they can’t say we are under grace for the penalty and not under grace in the keeping of the day. Either the Sabbath is no longer to be practiced by obligation or one needs to practice it correctly.

Those who worship on Saturday are not actually keeping God's command for the Sabbath, because they break the letter of the law. Especially when they try to lay guilt upon others for not keeping the Sabbath. Many say we are observing it by the Spirit of the law and then reinterpret it the way they want to. Either they practice by the letter which it is written in or they should admit to not upholding it correctly. When someone forces their practice upon others without upholding it themselves it then becomes legalism, and is hypocritical to say the least. Jesus dealt with the Pharisees, of whom he said, "they tie up heavy loads and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger.' (Matt. 23:4) Those who seek to lay guilt on others for not keeping the Sabbath are practicing modern-day Pharsaism. They break the Sabbath themselves, but are ignorant of the laws requirements in the word of God. They become something they would certainly want to avoid.
---
http://www.letusreason.org/7thAd4.htm
(again, some emphasis added by me.)

 

[Rosie]

First of all, nowhere in the Bible does it say we cannot worship on Sunday. This does not break the Sabbath command. Also, if I worship seven day a week, am I breaking the Sabbath? Do you consider prayer a form of worship? The Bible tells us to "Pray without ceasing." Where in the Bible does it say one must be in a house of worship during Sabbath? Lets look at the whole command


Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it....

Sunday meetings for worship break no law, as long as you continue to "remember" the sabbath day, according to His commandment-which is the seventh day, not the first. Not many "remember" the day HE HALLOWED AND SET APART. As for those who say they keep all days, this sounds great but is impossible in reality. God said to take one day off from our work and dedicate it to Him and is quite specific about which day.

The way I read and understand the Bible, I don't even see worship as a prerequisite for Sabbath-keeping. I see all the do's and don'ts, but nothing about worshipping.

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day [is] the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work [therein]: it [is] the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.


See above. Sabbath is to be a Holy Convocation, (a Holy assembly), a feast day. A day to commemorate both our Creation and our Redemption. I see you did not respond to that part of my post.

As to the rest of your restrictions, some are quite silly, imo. Are lawns, yards and hobbies, (not to mention hamburgers, pc's, internet and cars) mentioned in the Bible? Are you just skirting the real issue of God's requirement with superfluous reasoning to justify not obeying Him?

No traveling
The Jews added this law later on, allowing only a half mile of travel on the Sabbath which we see observed in the NT. But the law in it's pure state says "stay at home." If you kept this part of the law, you could not travel to your church gathering unless it was less than one-quarter mile away from home. If you had an emergency you could not drive to the hospital

.

Jesus mentioned those extra burdens the priests laid on the people. (References below) Why do you think He also made it clear to these same leaders that it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath day (Mat 12:12) if it was no longer to be kept?



Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.


Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay [them] on men's shoulders; but they [themselves] will not move them with one of their fingers.

You are to give twice as much on the Sabbath (Num. 28:9)
Is this practiced today in compliance with Old Testament law. Do Sabbatarian's really practice the law?

The animal sacrifices have been done away with. These were a shadow of the Lamb of God, forever accomplished with His one perfect sacrifice. No need to offer two lambs istead of one. He has been offered once and no more sacrifice for sin need be offered (Hebrews 9:28)

7. New showbread In the holy place (Lev. 24:8 )
This cannot be done today since there is no temple, so this part of the Sabbath cannot be followed by the church. The Sabbath was not made for the gentiles, but for the Jews and their offspring. (physical, not spiritual)

More flawed reasoning. The sabbath was made for man, according to Jesus. It was for all men who joined themselves to Him, according to God.
Hardly for the physical jews only, according to scripture.


Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

In MARK 2:27 Christ says, "And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:"

 

[Darrel]

denominations

All of the churches, eg. Seventh Day Adventist, Christian Scientist, and Jehovahs Witness, came out of the GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT of 1844.
Joseph Smith had worked out by using timelines in scripture a formula that indicated that the second coming of Jesus would occur in 1844.

All of christianity thruout the whole world paid attention to this declaration. But of course we all know how it turned out.
But, listen to this:
Matt 25:1-13
25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
KJV


But out of this great disappointment, there developed 3 distinct denominations. Each one having some sort of "leader" that they allow to direct their understanding to give them an edge beyond the Bible.

But if you think you are so smart, Who do you think said this?

O eternal ruler, Lord of the universe!
Grant that the name of the king whom thou lovest,
Whose name thou hast mentioned, may flourish as seems good to thee.
Guide him on the right path.
I am the ruler who obeys thee, the creation of thy hand.
It is thou who hast created me,
And thou hast entrusted to me sovereignty over mankind.
According to thy mercy, O Lord, which thou bestowest upon all,
Cause me to love thy supreme rule.
Implant the fear of thy divinity in my heart.
Grant to me whatsoever may seem good before thee, Since it is
thou that dost control my life.
Father, long-suffering and full of forgiveness, whose hand
upholds the life of all mankind!
First born, omnipotent, whose heart is immensity, and there is
none who may fathom it!
In heaven, who is supreme? Thou alone. ...
On earth, who is supreme? Thou alone. ...
As for thee, thy will is made known in heaven, and the angels
bow their faces.
As for thee, thy will is made known upon earth, and the
spirits below kiss the ground.
???

It was a prayer of King Nebuchadnezzar of Daniel 1-4 to his God Shamash as well as Marduk.

Found under the study of ancient Babylon

Jesus is coming back and it is at hand.

...I am Cyrus,(GW Bush) King of the world. When I entered Babylon...I did not allow anyone to terrorized the land...I kept in view the needs of the people and all its sanctuaries to promote their well-being...I put an end to their misfortune. The Great God has delivered all the lands into my hand; the lands that I have made to dwell in peaceful habitation...
Bibliography: Cyrus takes Babylon,

Rev 14:8-9
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
KJV
Rev 18:2-10
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, "Bagdad, Iraq" that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
KJV

 

[Monkey Del]

:o

 

[Vic C.]

Del, before you pass judgment on we 'HYPOCRITES', take a look at the beliefs of JW's and Mormons. Compare them to how YOU understand the Bible...then come back and we can discuss 'slapping' labels on the beliefs of other religions. I think thats a fair request for all of us. :D

Peace,
Vic

 

[cubedbee]

I'm reading a great book called Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin right now. The loose definition of the world cult found on page 1 is "a group of people gathered about a specific person or person's misinterpretation of the Scriptures. " A very subjective definition, but so is every definition of the word.

As far as to his treatment of cults, the SDA are not included amonst cults, but both JW and Mormons are. I have just finished reading the chapter on the Jehovah's Witnesses. I had no idea their beliefs were so warped. The book does a very good job of presenting JW beliefs with references to their literature, and then of refuting these believes with references from the Bible. It is also noted how the JW Bible purposely mis-translates Greek in order to twist Scriptures to say what they believe.

Here is an outline of the abberant JW beliefs:

1. There is no Trinity
2. Jesus is a god, the first of God's created beings, he is Michael
3. Jesus became fully human; there was no incarnation
4. Jesus was not raised physically, but only as a spirit
5 Jesus returns as a spirit, invisible to most of the world, and has already returned. The date he returned is either 1878 or 1914. Apparently, since the world didn't change, he is currently engaged in the Battle of Armeggedon with Satan in the spiritual realm.
6. Death is total annihilation---there is no hell
7. Man does not have an immortal soul
8. 144,000 JW will rule from heaven with Christ over his earthly kingdom. The righteous will be resurrected and allowed to live on earth, but only the 144,000 are allowed in heaven.

 

[the wellied one]

twisted

 

[Steve]

Jason,

What is your definition of a cult?

In Webster's it says: 1. a system of religious worship or ritual. 2. devoted attachment to, or admiration for, a person, principal, etc. 3. a group of followers; sect.

Now, to me that applies to 99 percent of religions and Christian people.

Now, if you say the JW's and SDA's are different than some of the others, I would have to agree with you.

Charlotte

Play word games all you want, you know what I meant. A sub group or a sect that sprung up around a leader such as Joseph Smith or Ellen White and who reject the teaching of Scirpture as the rule of faith.

j

For once or twice,( :P ) I agree with you totally, Jase. And despite what some shmohawks who don't seem to know any better may think, the Seventh Day Adventists are a pernicious, heretical CULT. And ol' Elly baby was a false prophetess AND a plaigiarist of the first order. They also "used" to teach, along with the JW's, that Jesus was the Archangel Michael. I have seen that in a few books STILL on the shelves in Adventist bookstores.

 

[Featherbop]

Teaching that Jesus is Micheal the Archangel does not make a cult.

A "christian cult" is a group or established orginization that teaches that salvation is acheived by any ways other than Jesus. Works, etc. #1

This is the definition I go by, and is quite reasonable.

The "christian cult" could also be a group that teaches against the Bible, or Changes the Bible to suit itself. Or ignores parts of the Bible, etc.#2

Now, a dictionary defininition is simply a religious group or orginization. #3

Another dictionary definition is a fanatical religious group or floowing, something to that effect. #4

____

So lets see who can be considered cults, and in what ways, and by what definitions:

Seventh day adventists:

1: No
2: No
3: Yes
4: In the vast majority, No.

_____

Mormons:

1: Yes
2: Yes
3: Yes
4: In the majority, probably not.

_____

Southern Baptists:

1: No
2: Yes
3: Yes
4: In the majority, No

_____

Catholics:

1: Some Yes, some No, I think
2: Yes
3: Yes
4: No, again, not in the majority

_____

just a few examples, so many "churches" out there.

 

[Gary]

SDA history

Why I believe that SDA is a cult

One of the defining characteristics of a cult is the character and teaching of its leader.

The leader of a cult is considered "special" by their members because:
1) The leader has received special revelation from God.
2) The leader claims to be appointed by God for a mission
3) The leader claims to have special abilities
4) The leader is often above reproach and is not to be denied or contradicted.

So let us compare that to the history of the SDA:

Modern Seventh Day Adventism traces its origins back to the early 1800's to Mr. William Miller (1782-1849) of Low Hampton, New York. Mr. Miller had converted from deism to Christianity in 1816 and became a Baptist. He was an avid reader, dedicated to God's word, and sought to reconcile apparent biblical difficulties raised by deists. He relied heavily on the Cruden's Concordance in his studies and developed a focus on the imminent return of Jesus. He began preaching at the age of 50.

The time was right. America was hot with discussions on the return of Christ. As a result, many thousands (called Millerites) accepted his idea that Jesus would return in the year covering 1843-1844. He had arrived at this date based upon a study of Daniel 8:14 which says, "And he said to me, "For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the holy place will be properly restored." He interpreted the 2300 evenings and mornings to be years and counted forward from 457 BC when the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem was given (Dan. 9:24-25). When his initial predictions failed, he adjusted his findings to conclude that Jesus would return on March 21, 1844 and then later on October 22, 1844. After these too failed, Miller quit promoting his ideas on Jesus' return and the "Millerites" broke up.

On the morning following the "Great Disappointment" of October 22, 1844, a Mr. Hiram Edson claimed to have seen a vision. He said that he saw Jesus standing at the altar of heaven and concluded that Miller had been right about the time, but wrong about the place. In other words, Jesus' return was not to earth, but a move into the heavenly sanctuary as is referenced in Heb. 8:1-2.

Mr. Joseph Bates (1792-1872), a retired sea captain and a convert to "Millerism" then began to promote the idea of Jesus moving into the heavenly sanctuary. He published a pamphlet which greatly influenced James (1821-1881) and Ellen White (1827-1915). It is these three who were the driving force behind the SDA movement.

Numerous reports state that Ellen G. White (1827-1915) saw visions from an early age. Such was the case shortly after the Great Disappointment. Mrs. White claimed to see in a vision of a narrow path where an angel was guiding Adventists. Subsequent visions resulted in interpretations of the three angels in Rev. 14:6-11 as being 1843-1844 as the hour of God's judgment; the fall of Babylon signified by Adventists leaving various churches, and admonitions against Sunday worship.

Can you see why Christians consider SDA a cult?

Source: http://www.carm.org/sda/history.htm

.

 

[Featherbop]

Gary bee, none of the SDA churches I have ever been in are like what you are accusing SDAs to be. whats in the past is in the past.

i'm aware of the SDAs coming from the great disapointment, I'm aware that many SDas consider EGW a prophetess. but its not like that anymore. Bringing up things with no relevance means nothing. I don't currently consider EGW a prophettess. I don't beleive I anyone knows when God will return. Simply, no.

And also Gary about your list of how the leaders are in a cult are not how SDa leaders are, in any SDA churches I have been in, or anything I have heard about them.

Gary, they would be a cult if the leaders were like that, or claiming those things. But they don't. Maybe you've seen some that do, but I never have, ever. I hear the SDAs being called a cult, but no facts that make them a cult are brought out to be unbiasedly considered. People seem to hate the SDAs because they keep God's sabbath and not the false one that other churches do.

But, by your list of how cult leaders are/do, lets see how church SDA leaders are everyone SDA church I've been in:

1: No
2: Well, christians are on a mission from God, duh.
3: No, I have no clue why you think this applys to SDA church.
4: Absolutely not, but other churches i.e. (southern baptists) act like this.


People need to realize who SDAs really are, and not who they want them to be. People listen to crap propoganda, bigots, stupid people opposed to anyone they want to be a cult, unknowledgable people on the subject, etc. instead of seeing what is real about the SDAs.

 

[Gary]

Cult leader Ellen White

The SDA cult and cult leader Ellen White

Featherbop, I would like to take you through this again.

The leader of a cult is considered "special" by their members because:
1) The leader has received special revelation from God.

Your response was that "No", this did not apply to the SDA.

IF you take Ellen White as your leader (If she is not, then who is your leader? The SDA sites are filled with her story and her writing - plagiarisms and all-) THEN the charge of a cult sticks.

Even the website you keep promoting says: "Early Adventists came to believe -- as have Adventists ever since -- that she (Ellen White) enjoyed God's special guidance as she wrote her counsels to the growing body of believers." http://www.adventist.org/history/

Hard for you to deny what your own website claims!

P.S. Do you believe that she actually received all that she wrote from God? Was it special revelation? Have you ever considered the charge of plagiarism that has been raised against her? Have you read her works?

.

 

[WyldCyde]

This is even more conclusive:

17. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

from http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/index.html

WyldCyde

 

[Featherbop]

Gary Bee, you know that EGW is dead, right? How is a dead person a leader? Please explain. I have not yet read and studied what she wrote, so I cannot say I believe she is a prophetess. God is my leader, no human, dead or alive.

The website, I just put there. It does not = 100% my beliefs, Biblical or not. Just a SDA site. Some things, I disagree, some I agree, some I am undecided about. You, again are trying to make it appear that I believe what you want me to, and not what I really do.

So, as far as EGW goes, I can't speak about her, and her writings, being that I have yet to read her writings. I don't think all SDAs believe in her as a prophetess, because, as of now, I don't. For now, I go completely by the Bible, which I am sure 99% of christians do not. The SDA people seem to hate. People always hate who they know is right.

 

[Fish-Cross]

Jason,

What is your definition of a cult?

In Webster's it says: 1. a system of religious worship or ritual. 2. devoted attachment to, or admiration for, a person, principal, etc. 3. a group of followers; sect.

Now, to me that applies to 99 percent of religions and Christian people.

Now, if you say the JW's and SDA's are different than some of the others, I would have to agree with you.

Charlotte

That's odd, whe I go to websters the first thing there says "A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader." Maybe you should look that up again. :-?

 

[Charlotte]

Fish-Cross,

Well, I looked again and it still says the same thing.

I guess it depends on which Webster's Dictionary you are looking in. I was looking in "Webster's New World Dictionary".

Charlotte