Self Assurance Doctrines

[gordon777]

??? As usual, you are answering to what you haven't understood. I offered the verse above as one of the ways a person can know they are saved. John says very plainly that a person can know they've passed from death unto life - they are saved - because they love the brethren. How is this opposite to what I was trying to do in offering the verse? Clearly, you didn't comprehend my purpose in citing the verse. But this is typical of all your responses to my posts.



??? Again, you haven't understood at all why I was writing of the conviction, illuminating and strengthening by the Holy Spirit. My purpose was to provide to readers those things the Bible says the Holy Spirit will do in those in whom he dwells. These things are signs that a person is saved; for it is by the indwelling Holy Spirit that a person is "born-again" (John 3:5-8; Titus 3:5-8). Your remark above, as far as I can tell, is completely off in addressing what I was doing in offering signs of the indwelling Holy Spirit. As usual.



Again, you're not addressing what I pointed out, but just dismissing it with an alternative verse, as though doing so effectively dissolves everything Scripture offers as proof-positive that the Spirit is in a person. Well, it doesn't.



So, follow Paul's advice and quite debating and contending with my posts.



Ask yourself this question. You do more contending with folks in threads than any other poster I'm aware of on this site.



Who's said anything about being self-assured? I've offered many verses that allow one to be Scripture-assured, however.



Listen to yourself, gordon777. The irony (?) is that every time you urge others to leave off strife and contention, it's while you continue to do both yourself!

No scriptures teach against being the least of all to be great, or or being the lowest to be higher, to abase ourselves to be exalted, or to be the last to be first.

That is why there is no need for strife, you simply have nothing to answer or speak about or against the gospel.



Luke 14:7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them.
8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.
10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


Luke 9:48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

Matthew 19:30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

 

[gordon777]

That will be a small thing on the day of judgement, when measured against a lifetime of unrighteousness.
Jesus said..."And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: ..." (John 12:47)
Though taken out of its context, the matter of belief is secondary to other things.
Those other things are "abiding in darkness". (John 12:46)

To believe in the meek Lord Jesus Christ, we have to believe in meekness, to not be meek, lowly, is not believing in Jesus Christ.



Zephaniah 2:3 Seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger.


Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

 

[gordon777]

I try not to use those exact words, in hope that those who have at least at one time in their lives appreciated God's mercy may still want to please the One who offers redemption and freedom from sin.
It is only a burden for those who want to call themselves Christians while walking in darkness.
They want both worlds.

Freedom from sin is freedom from pride, highmindedness, vaunting, puffed up, here it is again:


Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

[gordon777]

Agreed.
Thanks be to God for making our starting point one of absolute righteousness.
From whence we can grow in grace and knowledge.
And that we will never be tempted above that which we can handle. (1 Cor 10:13)

Temptation is when we are exalted in pride, as told:


Psalm 73:4 For there are no bands in their death: but their strength is firm.
5 They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued like other men.
6 Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain; violence covereth them as a garment.
7 Their eyes stand out with fatness: they have more than heart could wish.
8 They are corrupt, and speak wickedly concerning oppression: they speak loftily.
9 They set their mouth against the heavens, and their tongue walketh through the earth.

 

[gordon777]

Then you don't believe it.
The context of the "whole bible" is about loving God and neighbor as you love yourself.
Don't follow doctrines that steer men away from love.
You proclaim the rebirth of a still sinning man.
That is not rebirth from God's seed.
Sinning isn't loving.

Loving our own selves is not loving either:


1 Corinthians 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

1 Corinthians 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

1 Corinthians 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

Philippians 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

 

[gordon777]

Not just the "authority", but the flesh itself.
Paul writes of it in Romans 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
Paul also writes..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
The devil can only use memories of past lusts to lure us back into darkness.

To not serve sin is not serving ourselves, it is to please our neighbour to edification. ( charity edifies knowledge puffs up.) it is serving Jesus Christ, unlike these with divisions and offences:






Romans 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.


Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Thanks be to God for making our starting point one of absolute righteousness.
From whence we can grow in grace and knowledge.

To claim to be behaviorally perfect while saying you need to grow in grace and knowledge means at the very least you have been committing sins of omission (James 4:17).

The list of spiritual traits in 2 Peter 1:5-7 is a list of things that we are to continually be doing more and more of and which constitute sin when we don't do them along the way of growing up into them.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And that we will never be tempted above that which we can handle. (1 Cor 10:13)

But because of the presence of the flesh (not the authority of the flesh) believers don't always take the way God has provided to escape temptation. But as we grow in faith in the power of God through knowledge and experience we will take it more and more often. And that growth in turn gives us assurance that we are called and elected children of God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Then you don't believe it.
The context of the "whole bible" is about loving God and neighbor as you love yourself.
Don't follow doctrines that steer men away from love.
You proclaim the rebirth of a still sinning man.
That is not rebirth from God's seed.
Sinning isn't loving.

What I proclaim is the whole counsel of scripture that tells us believers still sin because of the presence of the flesh (not the authority of the flesh) and how easily sin entangles, and that we are children of God growing up and maturing into the image and statue of Christ, not starting out there.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Then you don't believe it.
The context of the "whole bible" is about loving God and neighbor as you love yourself.
Don't follow doctrines that steer men away from love.

Even you acknowledge that we need to grow in grace and knowledge to perform, more and more often, the traits of the Spirit - brotherly love, etc. What you don't understand is every time you did not perform the love you have yet to grow in grace and knowledge to is sin. The sin of omission.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

On the same hand it cannot be used as a defense of sinning.
Why not look at the last words of Gal 5:17..."For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."
To one walking in the Spirit, it means "I cannot do the things that I would have done if I were still in the flesh".
To one walking in the flesh, it means "I cannot do the things that I would have done if I were walking in the Spirit".

You can't cut vs. 17 off from vs. 18.

Almost all false doctrine is the result of un-rightly dividing verses away from the context of the whole counsel of scripture. And that is exactly what you are doing by un-rightly dividing Galatians 5:17 from the very next verse. The 'but' in vs. 18 shows us that the "do not do what you want" in vs. 17 is being CONTRASTED with being led by the Spirit in vs. 18. The 'do not do what you want' is SIN, and is being contrasted with walking by the Spirit.

For the believer, the thing they want to do are works of righteousness. But because of the remaining presence of the flesh (not the authority of the flesh) we sometimes "do not do what (we) want" - Galatians 5:17. BUT if we are led by the Spirit, and not the flesh, we will do what we want and won't come under condemnation of law.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Freedom from sin is freedom from pride, highmindedness, vaunting, puffed up, here it is again:


Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

It is also freedom from lying, thievery, adultery, and murder.
And 1000 other addictions.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Temptation is when we are exalted in pride, as told:


Psalm 73:4 For there are no bands in their death: but their strength is firm.
5 They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued like other men.
6 Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain; violence covereth them as a garment.
7 Their eyes stand out with fatness: they have more than heart could wish.
8 They are corrupt, and speak wickedly concerning oppression: they speak loftily.
9 They set their mouth against the heavens, and their tongue walketh through the earth.

Temptation is any of the lures of the flesh.
I am sure glad Jesus allowed us to "crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts". (Gal 5:24)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Loving our own selves is not loving either:


1 Corinthians 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

1 Corinthians 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

1 Corinthians 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

Philippians 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

If you don't love yourself, you can't love anyone else.
We are commanded to treat our neighbors like we want to be treated.
If we want to be treated badly, how is it loving to want our neighbor to be treated badly ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

To not serve sin is not serving ourselves, it is to please our neighbour to edification. ( charity edifies knowledge puffs up.) it is serving Jesus Christ, unlike these with divisions and offences

That doesn't have much to do with what I posted, but...OK.

 

[Hopeful 2]

To claim to be behaviorally perfect while saying you need to grow in grace and knowledge means at the very least you have been committing sins of omission (James 4:17).

No, it doesn't.
When I was reborn, I didn't know how to convince baptists to come to the real faith, but I grew in knowledge to where I can now.
The same for catholicism and mormonalogy.
I didn't even know I should keep my shirt on when I was baptized !

The list of spiritual traits in 2 Peter 1:5-7 is a list of things that we are to continually be doing more and more of and which constitute sin when we don't do them along the way of growing up into them.

It would be a sin to ignore teachings from the pastors, deacons, and brotherhood.
But aren't Christians there with those righteous men in order to keep free from sin?

 

[Hopeful 2]

But because of the presence of the flesh (not the authority of the flesh) believers don't always take the way God has provided to escape temptation.

Believers really do take the way God provides to escape temptations.
You've got us mixed up with unbelievers.

But as we grow in faith in the power of God through knowledge and experience we will take it more and more often. And that growth in turn gives us assurance that we are called and elected children of God.

Gradual conversion is no conversion.
It is doing it by ones own power instead of by God's power.

 

[Hopeful 2]

What I proclaim is the whole counsel of scripture that tells us believers still sin because of the presence of the flesh (not the authority of the flesh) and how easily sin entangles, and that we are children of God growing up and maturing into the image and statue of Christ, not starting out there.

You are unaware of the flesh's destruction.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Even you acknowledge that we need to grow in grace and knowledge to perform, more and more often, the traits of the Spirit - brotherly love, etc. What you don't understand is every time you did not perform the love you have yet to grow in grace and knowledge to is sin. The sin of omission.

If I don't know how to confront, say smokers, about sins of self abuse, how can I explain it to them?
You seem to be getting more and more desperate to drag me back into sin.
I think I will ignore you for a little while.

 

[Tenchi]

No scriptures teach against being the least of all to be great, or or being the lowest to be higher, to abase ourselves to be exalted, or to be the last to be first.

That is why there is no need for strife, you simply have nothing to answer or speak about or against the gospel.

Are you okay? Your responses are becoming increasingly...garbled, speaking to things that have nothing to do with what I've written, and in a pretty nonsensical way.