Self-defense

[tjw]

Is Jesus OK with physical self-defense?

 

[Guest]

Is Jesus OK with physical self-defense?

Yes.

 

[jasoncran]

Is Jesus OK with physical self-defense?

Yes.

i agree, while the bible says that we are to love our enemy it doenst say that we are to let evil run amok and unchecked.

some cant discern the difference in stopping evil and loving men into the kingdom who will use,hurt you.

that said and wm tipton will agree, lets not get into a gun rights debate.

 

[Guest]

that said and wm tipton will agree, lets not get into a gun rights debate.

Where else do these SD threads have to go except a gun rights thing ?
Its almost like someone is trolling or something by starting them.

 

[JamesG]

.

TJW

If we are in Christ, we live by life, the Life of God in the Son through the Spirit of God. We are supposed to walk according to the Spirit of God. We let God determine whether we should defend ourselves or whether we should let God deal with the situation in whatever other way he chooses.

Now if we don’t want to do that, then we have no choice but to live by principles determined by ourselves or by someone else. The natural man needs principles to live by. We can always talk to the local gendarmes and get their expertise on such an eventuality. There are all kinds of secular principles to live by in whatever nation we happen to live in. Or if we consider ourselves to be Christian, then we can live according our own interpretations of the Bible or the interpretations of the denomination to which we adhere.

It’s all up to us. But be assured that if we don’t walk according to the Spirit, then we are walking as if there isn’t any God at all. And with the world like it is today, we need to be pretty paranoid about protecting ourselves and the people for whom we are responsible and our possessions.

JamesG

 

[shad]

Is Jesus OK with physical self-defense?

You mean killing your attacker? No.

 

[n2thelight]

Is Jesus OK with physical self-defense?

You mean killing your attacker? No.

So are you saying you would rather, you or your loved one be killed, instead of killing to keep from being killed???

 

[Guest]

Is Jesus OK with physical self-defense?

You mean killing your attacker? No.

So are you saying you would rather, you or your loved one be killed, instead of killing to keep from being killed???

There are some here in this forum who have no clue about violence because theyve never faced it, so its very easy for them to pretend as if they would stand with a pious, gleeful glance while some nutcase ripped their wives or children apart acting as if they do some glorious thing for God.
They are deluded and to be ignored entirely.

We all know here that if these types, this poster being one of them, WERE to actually FACE such a scenario, if they were ABLE to protect their loved ones and even their own lives from a felon, that they WOULD do just that, even if it meant killing the bad guy.

I wouldnt waste my time with this or another poster in this particular issue...they talk the talk because they havent ever had to walk the walk.
Lip service is easy for these types who havent been put to the test yet...

 

[veteran]

Our Lord Jesus speaking here...

Luke 22:35-38
35 And He said unto them, "When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing?" And they said, "Nothing."
36 Then said He unto them, "But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in Me, 'And He was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning Me have an end."
38 And they said, "Lord, behold, here are two swords." And He said unto them, "It is enough."
(KJV)

Verse 37 is our Lord quoting the prophecy about His being delievered up to be crucified, reckoned with the transgressors who were crucified with Him (Isa.53:12).

The rest is about pure self-defense.

 

[jasoncran]

i guess those naturally built reflexes of raising the arm up to block a stab or club to the head or throat is supposed to be supressed or those adrenline release that you get when one is danger is also to be ignored.

 

[shad]

So are you saying you would rather, you or your loved one be killed, instead of killing to keep from being killed???

Too all who are for the military and self defense:

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Jesus and His disciples did not hurt or kill anyone even for self defense. There are tons of people getting killed and got tortured for Jesus' sake. Are you really serious about following Jesus? This kind of mentality is no different from secular world, and against Jesus' command of being salt and light of the world. You cannot be salt and light of the world if you are no different from this world.

You don't have to face actual evil to know how to act against it and do the will of God. That's why God gave us the Bible so we know what to do when we face predicaments.

I will skip responding to all pro-violent posters individually because they all come from the same spirit and mentality.

You guys should strive to accommodate what Jesus commands instead of accommodating your own worldly desires.

It is pity that you guys are claiming to be faithful Christians, using worldly mentality.

 

[shad]

Here is the reminder from Jesus; honor it if you guys claiming to be faithful followers.

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies
43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matt4:38-48

 

[Ed the Ned]

I will skip responding to all pro-violent posters individually because they all come from the same spirit and mentality.

- Shad

The question asked: "is it OK to defend yourself physically against someone in self defense." There is no pro violent sentiment here. If some one came at you with a knife or a gun trying to kill you what would your response be? Would you just stand there and allow the attacker to stab you repeatidly or would you fend off your attacker (Physically or otherwise)?
Or if you saw a man beating a defensless child to death, would you intervene? Physically to assist the child if neccessary!

 

[Mike]

DO refrain from being personally combative. We can disagree without taking this approach!

Similar attacks will be subject to being deleted, the member warned and the topic locked!

Let's have a discussion.

*edit*
I've edited this post, because the member mentioned at first graciously agreed to remove names in his. Thanks to everyone for defending their stance without getting personal. :yes

 

[mondar]

There are some here in this forum who have no clue about violence because theyve never faced it, so its very easy for them to pretend as if they would stand with a pious, gleeful glance while some nutcase ripped their wives or children apart acting as if they do some glorious thing for God.
They are deluded and to be ignored entirely.

One night my wife and I were in bed sleeping when we heard a loud noise in the basement. It sounded like an intruder. Of course I assumed the intruder was of the furry animal kind. My hunting rifle is under the bed in its case (unloaded) and the shot gun is sitting in a different room on a rack. Nevertheless, before my walk down to the basement, I thought "where did I put that baseball bat (bullets or pellets ricocheting around a masonry basement is not cool). When I got to the basement, there was no intruder. I was not relieved by that knowledge because my coal boiler had just blown up and water, steam and smoke was all over the basement. It looked like Purgatory. There was my baseball bat sitting in the corner. Well, after seeing the mess I hollered upstairs to my wife "its OK, there's nothing down here." When my wife came down, she saw a very sad looking dude in his skivvies walking out of the smoke and the steam toward here with a baseball bat in his hand. She only said "your not going to fix the coal burner with that baseball bat are you?"

Well, I never really had an "human intruder" in the house that night, but if one would have come down the steps instead of my wife, he probably would have died laughing right on the spot.

Wm T, I never had an intruder yet. What would I do if I had a real intruder? Dunno, I hope at least I put my drawers on! : ) Then hopefully, hearing the loud, sharp metallic sound of the bolt action of a 303 Brit ---cracking in the night---- would make them decide to avoid the business end of well used hunting rifle. Would I use it? Probably. As you say, i don't really know until it happens.

But this raises another question. Lets say the intruder shoots me, and I am down. What about my wife upstairs? Her preference is her 7mm08 Remington. It is also under the bed in its case. Its well oiled, and she has done plenty of target shooting, and also used it to kill large game, and she does not miss. I wonder what my wife would do. Do you want my guess? My answer would be that momma don't miss when she aims her gun.

From Louis Lamore AKA Mondar

 

[Ed the Ned]

I will skip responding to all pro-violent posters individually because they all come from the same spirit and mentality.

- Shad

The question asked: "is it OK to defend yourself physically against someone in self defense." There is no pro violent sentiment here. If some one came at you with a knife or a gun trying to kill you what would your response be? Would you just stand there and allow the attacker to stab you repeatidly or would you fend off your attacker (Physically or otherwise)?
Or if you saw a man beating a defensless child to death, would you intervene? Physically to assist the child if neccessary!

I am not trying to discredit shad in this post if that is the impression. I would clearly like to understand why someone would not defend themselves or others with force if neccessary!

 

[Guest]

Here is the reminder from Jesus; honor it if you guys claiming to be faithful followers.

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies
43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matt4:38-48

Huh...not a WORD THERE forbids a man to be a soldier....not even one word if that.

But we DO have a bit of an indicator that scripture DOESNT forbid it....

Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
(1Co 9:7 KJV)


G4754
???????????
strateuomai
Thayer Definition:
1) to make a military expedition, to lead soldiers to war or to battle, (spoken of a commander)
2) to do military duty, be on active service, be a soldier
3) to fight
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: middle voice from the base of G4756
Citing in TDNT: 7:701, 1091

 

[Guest]

There are some here in this forum who have no clue about violence because theyve never faced it, so its very easy for them to pretend as if they would stand with a pious, gleeful glance while some nutcase ripped their wives or children apart acting as if they do some glorious thing for God.
They are deluded and to be ignored entirely.

One night my wife and I were in bed sleeping when we heard a loud noise in the basement. It sounded like an intruder. Of course I assumed the intruder was of the furry animal kind. My hunting rifle is under the bed in its case (unloaded) and the shot gun is sitting in a different room on a rack. Nevertheless, before my walk down to the basement, I thought "where did I put that baseball bat (bullets or pellets ricocheting around a masonry basement is not cool). When I got to the basement, there was no intruder. I was not relieved by that knowledge because my coal boiler had just blown up and water, steam and smoke was all over the basement. It looked like Purgatory. There was my baseball bat sitting in the corner. Well, after seeing the mess I hollered upstairs to my wife "its OK, there's nothing down here." When my wife came down, she saw a very sad looking dude in his skivvies walking out of the smoke and the steam toward here with a baseball bat in his hand. She only said "your not going to fix the coal burner with that baseball bat are you?"

Well, I never really had an "human intruder" in the house that night, but if one would have come down the steps instead of my wife, he probably would have died laughing right on the spot.

Wm T, I never had an intruder yet. What would I do if I had a real intruder? Dunno, I hope at least I put my drawers on! : ) Then hopefully, hearing the loud, sharp metallic sound of the bolt action of a 303 Brit ---cracking in the night---- would make them decide to avoid the business end of well used hunting rifle. Would I use it? Probably. As you say, i don't really know until it happens.

But this raises another question. Lets say the intruder shoots me, and I am down. What about my wife upstairs? Her preference is her 7mm08 Remington. It is also under the bed in its case. Its well oiled, and she has done plenty of target shooting, and also used it to kill large game, and she does not miss. I wonder what my wife would do. Do you want my guess? My answer would be that momma don't miss when she aims her gun.

From Louis Lamore AKA Mondar

The wife and I have a few guns, a couple 12 gauge pumps, a 22 revolver and my 357 mag Ruger that I carry pretty much every waking moment.
Unlike many, I HAVE been burglarized a couple times, been robbed at knifepoint, stalked, threatened, attacked by a gang of about 8 guys, etc.
Members of my family, including my daughter and mother, have been assaulted at least once.
So its pretty clear that Im not deluding myself into believing that life is all peaches and cream.

The idea of a gun is the same as having nukes and an army....the FIRST thought behind it is deterrence. If my gun is bigger, the bad guys wont come around if theyre smart.
I like the pump shotguns because the sound alone is enough to cause a sane man to wet himself and run. Ive talked to LEO's who have told me that when theyve had to pull a pump out that the sound by itself often stops the bad guys in their tracks (assuming they arent drugged up), so for deterrence its fantastic.
I also like the 12gauge because I can get some dummy type loads that have 1oz rubber 'rocket' shaped loads that wont likely kill or even hurt someone too severely. Might crack a rib or two at close range, but it leaves some options that other guns types dont have.

I work with my wife by handing her the unloaded 12 guage and having her try to ready it as quickly as possible. Shes down to about 2-3 seconds which is pretty good seeing that she doenst overly like guns.
I take her shooting when we can, but she hasnt really shot enough for me to really trust her in a bad situuation like a break in.

The hope is that we never have to use a gun in self defense, or the defense of someone else. And we hope that if we do have to draw a gun that seeing the gun itself will be enough for the bad guys to run off...as they do in many cases.
Shooting someone is always a LAST resort, obviously.

That all said one has to wonder what God is going to say to a man who sits and watches his child or wife be raped and slaughtered with a self righteous smirk on his face.
I certainly wouldnt want to be in his shoes....

 

[mondar]

Unlike many, I HAVE been burglarized a couple times, been robbed at knifepoint, stalked, threatened, attacked by a gang of about 8 guys, etc.
Members of my family, including my daughter and mother, have been assaulted at least once.

Get out of the city.

 

[Guest]

Unlike many, I HAVE been burglarized a couple times, been robbed at knifepoint, stalked, threatened, attacked by a gang of about 8 guys, etc.
Members of my family, including my daughter and mother, have been assaulted at least once.

Get out of the city.

That is definitely what the wife would like to do.
There is a website .... http://www.crimereports.com ....that shows all the crimes reported in the area.
When we moved here a year and a half ago our area was VERY low in crime, but the last year or so it has went way up.
Now, its typically simple stuff....a couple guys drinking who get into a fight, car break ins, etc.
But we have had a number of home breakins that make me a bit nervous. Actually we had one this spring 3 doors down where a drug head across the way was evicted so while he was moving out he apparently kicked in the door of a nice gent in our building.
The guy wasnt home, but was out of town for his job, so no one was hurt, thank God....but what if the man HAD been home and had a gun ? One dead drug head, quite possibly.
These criminals simply dont think. Theyre too stupid to think. Even with 80 million gun owners in the USA and the odds that the house a man is breaking into has a very good chance of being a gun owners home who might actually use that gun, these nitwit thugs are STILL going to risk getting shot and killed just to get $100 worth of crap out of his house.

They want my stuff...heck I'll help them load it into their truck. They try to hurt my wife or my grandson, theyre quite possibly leaving in a body bag.