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Senate tackles gay marriage ban

Very well put Thess. And yes this is a Christian site, and homosexuality is against the Word of God the Almighty. Here is a true story that is going on now. My cousin has a friend who use to dress in drag, now he is back to dressing as a man. He has said that he knows it is wrong to be what he is. She has been bringing him to our church and one Sunday last month, he went up and was lead to the Lord. I asked my cousin about him the other day, and she said he is having a problem giving it up, and he is fighting it. But I know he has to learn to let the Lord fight his battles, and not depend on himself to do it. My point is, right out of the horses mouth he said homosexuality is wrong.
I have a friend who was gay and turned his back on homosexuality, and he is now married, and has been for about 15 years. And he, in the past in the 70's told me that it was wrong. And another one I know is now married, and they are married to women. But here on this site, you cannot seem like you are promoting homosexual behavior, period.
 
I'm not promoting it, I just refuse to take away thier rights as humans. Say what you want, gay people can turn straight I'm sure. I'm not going to be changing anyones orientation. It's not my job. This is the reason so many gay people are scared of the church. And this is also the reason I have some gay friends asking me if god hates them, because others give them all this sin and evil act. You know what do what you wish, but I wont take lead, I'm just gald we dont go to the same church. As I would hate anyone to feel unwelcome in the sight of god.

What makes me laugh tough is that its always gay men, never gay women talked about, if they are its very rare. It seems to be more of a focus on the gay male.
 
RichardE40K said:
I'm not promoting it, I just refuse to take away thier rights as humans. Say what you want, gay people can turn straight I'm sure. I'm not going to be changing anyones orientation. It's not my job. This is the reason so many gay people are scared of the church. And this is also the reason I have some gay friends asking me if god hates them, because others give them all this sin and evil act. You know what do what you wish, but I wont take lead, I'm just gald we dont go to the same church. As I would hate anyone to feel unwelcome in the sight of god.

What makes me laugh tough is that its always gay men, never gay women talked about, if they are its very rare. It seems to be more of a focus on the gay male.
You do not have the right, you take and make it your right. Which really is not right at all, because God said don't do it. But he gave you the will to choose. And if you go against Him you will pay, unless you repent in your heart, and ask Him to forgive you, and turn away from it.
 
Iv'e never gone against the lord! I go against the arrogence of man. And the coldness of some people. Yes I sin but Iv'e always let jesus into my heart.
 
RichardE40K said:
Iv'e never gone against the lord! I go against the arrogence of man. And the coldness of some people. Yes I sin but Iv'e always let jesus into my heart.

You sound like a fellow human being, Richard. I used to be as self-righteous as some appear to be on this forum. But, I've learned over the years that I can't afford to point the finger at anyone. I can't even afford to wave the Bible in their faces! I've also learned that God, not me, will be the judge of us all. We have a lot of 'fruit inspectors' on this forum. ;-)

As for the continual reminders of violating the TOS by 'promoting' homosexuality ...this is the kind of nonsense that some of us are battling in the first place. No one is 'promoting' homosexuality and this is just a ruse by nervous moderators to shut down the thread. The general Christian notion is that 'authentic' homosexuality is not an orientation but an individual's 'choice'. So, based on this false premise, some Christians believe that a 'straight' person can and MIGHT just be 'tainted' by anyone who doesn't loathe and condemn homosexuality. And, it's this kind of nonsense that directs the thinking of many. Unbelievable! The belief by some that I might 'turn gay' by having read the thoughts of another is, to me, quite insulting.

Jesus came to take away our sins, not our brains!
 
SputnikBoy said:
RichardE40K said:
Iv'e never gone against the lord! I go against the arrogence of man. And the coldness of some people. Yes I sin but Iv'e always let jesus into my heart.

You sound like a fellow human being, Richard. I used to be as self-righteous as some appear to be on this forum. But, I've learned over the years that I can't afford to point the finger at anyone. I can't even afford to wave the Bible in their faces! I've also learned that God, not me, will be the judge of us all. We have a lot of 'fruit inspectors' on this forum. ;-)

As for the continual reminders of violating the TOS by 'promoting' homosexuality ...this is the kind of nonsense that some of us are battling in the first place. No one is 'promoting' homosexuality and this is just a ruse by nervous moderators to shut down the thread. The general Christian notion is that 'authentic' homosexuality is not an orientation but an individual's 'choice'. So, based on this false premise, some Christians believe that a 'straight' person can and MIGHT just be 'tainted' by anyone who doesn't loathe and condemn homosexuality. And, it's this kind of nonsense that directs the thinking of many. Unbelievable! The belief by some that I might 'turn gay' by having read the thoughts of another is, to me, quite insulting.

Jesus came to take away our sins, not our brains!

Rod,

I have been to many churches and they are not capable of helping fellow believers. Do you know why? Because churches are not promoting being obedient to Jesus' teachings. I voice my conviction which most churches are not doing to their congregation. Please be sensisitive to the oppressed and weak Jesus' servants.

It seems that I am one of the people you are condemning.
 
You know I just don't get it. Do you guy's even read the Bible ? What does the Bible say about homosexuality ? Now if the Bible says that it is a abomination of man kind. That is just what it is. Who is man to try and take and water down the Word of God. The Bible is clear on what it is. The Lord said. I am the Lord. I change not. What do you think because we are living in modern times, the Lord has changed, His stance on gays ? And you people are telling me that I should except it. And because we oppose it we are on a witch hunt ? All because we believe what the Bible says. Anf if the Bible says it is wrong we Christians are supposed to say that it is wrong. We would be less than Christians, if we did not say that it was wrong. So condoning homosexual behavior will not be tolerated on this board. It sends out the wrong signals. Those comments about homosexual virgins being ok is what prompted this post.
 
gingercat said:
Rod,

I have been to many churches and they are not capable of helping fellow believers. Do you know why? Because churches are not promoting being obedient to Jesus' teachings. I voice my conviction which most churches are not doing to their congregation. Please be sensisitive to the oppressed and weak Jesus' servants.

It seems that I am one of the people you are condemning.

Please, gingercat, present one scripture where Jesus Himself condemned (taught against) homosexuality. Please present a scripture from Jesus where He forbade the acceptance by the church of ANY sinner, whatever their sexual orientation. Please don't be among those many that present dogmatic 'Christian' statements that are not even contained in the scriptures.

And, as for being sensitive to oppressed and weak Christians ...you honestly believe that this is not the issue that I'm 'doing battle' with in the first place? Are you the weak and oppressed Christian on this thread? I think not.

Do you understand where I'm coming from on this topic and the ACTUAL question I asked in my original post, ginger? I really don't think you do. Just as there are sinful heterosexuals I believe that there are also sinful homosexuals and sinful bi-sexuals and sinful ...'whatevers'. In fact, as long as we are human then we're ALL sinful, whatever our genetic hard-wiring. There is no getting around it. Furthermore, we CONTINUE to sin on a daily basis so we are never free from sin. This is where Jesus comes into the picture, whatever the sin, whatever the sexual orientation.

Okay, this is where I stand on the issue of 'authentic' homosexuals if I haven't said this enough times already. I believe WITH ALL MY HEART (from the testimonies of real homosexual people that I know personally and those I don't know personally and also from the findings of accumulated scientific knowledge that support the testimonies of these people) that some, perhaps many, people are born with 'sexual orientations' that may not be considered 'the norm' by society. Okay? You don't have to agree ...just understand what I'm saying.

Now, I'm not saying that this belief I have that homosexuals are NOT 'heterosexual' deviants makes me right and you wrong, you understand that also? I'm not in the body of another person so I don't know anything for sure. What this belief I have DOES do, however, is to prompt me to take this into consideration whenever the issue is raised. I CANNOT and WILL NOT condemn someone for an orientation that was not of their choosing. You still with me? So, is it possible to continue this topic without cultural norms and one's emotions getting in the way?

I could go on but I'm sure you'll respond with some Bible commentary that does NOT address my original question. So, I'll respond to that if and when it comes or until a nervous mod decides to pull the plug.
 
Lewis W said:
You know I just don't get it. Do you guy's even read the Bible ? What does the Bible say about homosexuality ? Now if the Bible says that it is a abomination of man kind. That is just what it is. Who is man to try and take and water down the Word of God. The Bible is clear on what it is. The Lord said. I am the Lord. I change not. What do you think because we are living in modern times, the Lord has changed, His stance on gays ? And you people are telling me that I should except it. And because we oppose it we are on a witch hunt ? All because we believe what the Bible says. Anf if the Bible says it is wrong we Christians are supposed to say that it is wrong. We would be less than Christians, if we did not say that it was wrong. So condoning homosexual behavior will not be tolerated on this board. It sends out the wrong signals. Those comments about homosexual virgins being ok is what prompted this post.

Hey, hey, Lewis, what is going on here? Then you DISAPPROVE of a celibate homosexual? What exactly ARE you saying? Please don't pull the plug on this topic until you come clean. I'll even put the question to you so that it will save you the time.

So you believe that the Bible condemns 'the orientation' of homosexuality ALONE ...with or without that individual ACTING on that orientation? Yes? No?
 
SputnikBoy said:
And, as for being sensitive to oppressed and weak Christians ...you honestly believe that this is not the issue that I'm 'doing battle' with in the first place? Are you the weak and oppressed Christian on this thread? I think not.

I was oppressed by a disobedient churchgoing husband and his church would not and could not help me. I have learned that "Christians" are incapable of being useful to the Lord for others because of their hypocritical practices. Hypocritical practices come from disobedience. Please don't contribute to disgracing Jesus' name with hypocrisy.

You are fighting only for homosexuals. It is so strange to me.
 
gingercat said:
SputnikBoy said:
And, as for being sensitive to oppressed and weak Christians ...you honestly believe that this is not the issue that I'm 'doing battle' with in the first place? Are you the weak and oppressed Christian on this thread? I think not.

I was oppressed by a disobedient churchgoing husband and his church would not and could not help me. I have learned that "Christians" are incapable of being useful to the Lord for others because of their hypocritical practices. Hypocritical practices come from disobedience. Please don't contribute to disgracing Jesus' name with hypocrisy.

You are fighting only for homosexuals. It is so strange to me.
Sputnick, being weak and oppressed still doesn't make one righteous or 'right'.
Do you feel that (God) created some people to be attracted to the same sex?
 
Lewis W said:
You know I just don't get it. Do you guy's even read the Bible ? What does the Bible say about homosexuality ? Now if the Bible says that it is a abomination of man kind. That is just what it is. Who is man to try and take and water down the Word of God. The Bible is clear on what it is. The Lord said. I am the Lord. I change not. What do you think because we are living in modern times, the Lord has changed, His stance on gays ? And you people are telling me that I should except it. And because we oppose it we are on a witch hunt ? All because we believe what the Bible says. Anf if the Bible says it is wrong we Christians are supposed to say that it is wrong. We would be less than Christians, if we did not say that it was wrong. So condoning homosexual behavior will not be tolerated on this board. It sends out the wrong signals. Those comments about homosexual virgins being ok is what prompted this post.

For each part in teh bible that condemns homosexuality, there is a part in teh bible that shows jesus allowed peopel to sin, and let them sin, because they did not want to open their hearts. There are passages that show that marriage Is not what god wanted./ There are passages that say man has free will, that man will sin, and that "everything happens for a reason in gods plan"

I will admit, I have read the bible less than you have, However, you stick on the poitns that bash homosexuals, I (when not using the bible as a work of fiction) focus on the parts that show love, acceptance, and the path of jesus.
If you read the bible like a book, and you are supposed to follow the character of Jesus, then you would not be shunning people for being diffrent, or taking away their rights or privleges. It takes a persons own self want to join God. The apostles took MANY MANY failures at trusting Jesus, before they finally understood. Yet, Jesus never told them they were bad, or wrong, or gave up. He let them think as they wished, and do as they wished, because he knew that, if it was true in their hearts, they would eventualy come to him.
 
destiny said:
Do you feel that (God) created some people to be attracted to the same sex?

I believe that God created the first human beings. Since then humans have reproduced without God's help. So, no, I don't believe that God creates people anyway. Our parents do the work. As for what makes a person heterosexual, homosexual, or something in between I haven't got a clue. I really don't spend my day worrying about who is attracted to whom.
 
gingercat said:
SputnikBoy said:
And, as for being sensitive to oppressed and weak Christians ...you honestly believe that this is not the issue that I'm 'doing battle' with in the first place? Are you the weak and oppressed Christian on this thread? I think not.

I was oppressed by a disobedient churchgoing husband and his church would not and could not help me. I have learned that "Christians" are incapable of being useful to the Lord for others because of their hypocritical practices. Hypocritical practices come from disobedience. Please don't contribute to disgracing Jesus' name with hypocrisy.

You are fighting only for homosexuals. It is so strange to me.

You know, hitomi, when you say "It is so strange to me" I could also hit back with the same thing to you and others. It is strange to me that Christians will not accept someone merely based on their sexual preference. That is ULTRA-strange to me since it doesn't affect my walk with Jesus at all. That I should not only dislike that person but condemn them to damnation because they don't have the same sexual preference that I do is scary. It borders on 'mental terrorism' and I will not be a party to this.

Why am I 'fighting for the homosexual' (your words) anyway? I am doing so because Christianity has taken this issue to such an unbelievable extreme that it's taken on a life of it's own. I stand amazed that Christians have singled out what THEY perceive* to be a sin and exalted it way above ALL OTHER SINS. With the exception of some 'pro-life' groups I have never seen so called Christian rallies that promote such hatred toward a particular group of people as do anti-gay marches ...so called Christians who hold up placards reading "God hates fags," "You're all going to hell," and the like. DISGUSTING!!

Similar things happen on these Christian forums. The words may not be said but the intent is the same. So, you bet I'll take the side of the underdog in this case. Frankly, I don't care if my neighbor has an attraction for the same gender. If, however, he steals from me or kicks my cat then I'll have something to say about it. Should God have a problem with one's sexual preference then it's up to God to do something about it. I'm not God and I don't intend to play God.

Meanwhile, should a 'gay' person come into my life I will accept him/her as I would anyone else. You've already stated, hitomi, that you wouldn't want anything to do with any member of your own family who was 'gay' so you obviously wouldn't want such a person to soil your church. And, this kind of attitude by Christians is beyond my comprehension. As the robot from Lost In Space used to say "This does not compute."

By the way, I am just as adamant in my views on the topic of state execution. That Christians are 'okay' about killing someone appalls me.

*I don't believe ones 'natural' attraction to a particular gender to be a sin.
 
SputnikBoy said:
Lewis W said:
You know I just don't get it. Do you guy's even read the Bible ? What does the Bible say about homosexuality ? Now if the Bible says that it is a abomination of man kind. That is just what it is. Who is man to try and take and water down the Word of God. The Bible is clear on what it is. The Lord said. I am the Lord. I change not. What do you think because we are living in modern times, the Lord has changed, His stance on gays ? And you people are telling me that I should except it. And because we oppose it we are on a witch hunt ? All because we believe what the Bible says. Anf if the Bible says it is wrong we Christians are supposed to say that it is wrong. We would be less than Christians, if we did not say that it was wrong. So condoning homosexual behavior will not be tolerated on this board. It sends out the wrong signals. Those comments about homosexual virgins being ok is what prompted this post.

Hey, hey, Lewis, what is going on here? Then you DISAPPROVE of a celibate homosexual? What exactly ARE you saying? Please don't pull the plug on this topic until you come clean. I'll even put the question to you so that it will save you the time.

So you believe that the Bible condemns 'the orientation' of homosexuality ALONE ...with or without that individual ACTING on that orientation? Yes? No?
Yes.
 
You know in the end, I can see a light to all this. I mean gays did not used to be the hot thing. First of, way back in history it was other races such as blacks and Asians that were not allowed into the church, well In England anyway. Then that all passed, the extremists had to allow it due to the fact racism after the slave trade was now seen as a really bad thing. Then we had women’s rights within the church, women to have the power to be vicars, it was opposed but now is quite common place. I’ve realised that gay men and women are just the hot topic for Christianity, well in America it seems. England has already accepted it. Also Christianity has had conflicts with science, apart from the now few who still believe our planet is 4000 years old, it is starting to work in harmony. I can see in the future this whole topic will be seen as the same thing, Christianity will have to learn to be tolerant, just like it had to with all the other things and people it disagreed with, of course there will always be extremists and people who follow the bible no end, but if you never think for yourself and let the bible do it for you all the time, god really wasted time designing the brain. Furthermore does that mean you are going to start killing other religions, because that’s the motion I got of god when he did mass killing.

I’ve always had a problem with Christianity’s history, we killed each other as in protestants and Catholics. We killed our saints such as Joan of arc in the name of the lord. Even further more by killing other races, homosexuals and what not. A lot of people see us as tyrants, about to shout out about how Satan has consumed them and condemning to hell. That is something I hear no end, I condemn you to hell, weird no. I don’t believe its our job to do that as that’s god, secondly hell in my eyes does not exist, more so on earth.

Anyway people can do what they like but the main fact is, Christianity on a whole will have to become tolerant. We have had to change for other things, this is no different in many respects.

The man who has nothing, may still have faith.
 
Richard,

It does not seem you believe the Bible is Word of God. If your faith is so uncommitted you are not different from any other religions.

Are you an athiest also? This is Christian forum: It is only fare that you should state your position.

thank you.
 
I have met many "christians" like richard, and they are very nice people. They can be nice to you, or be your friend, REGARDLESS of what your beliefs are. They are truly nice people, that give christianity the loving, reaching out, kind of name, that some think it has.

I have met man "christians" that are liek other memebrs on this forum, that preach discrimination (although they wont call it that) and hate (or that either) and refuse to accept people that are not the same as them.

Both call themselves christians, and there are hundreds of thousands on both sides, that think THEY are the true christians, and the other half arent.

Its funny, because, either all of them are wrong, Or half of them are wrong :-P

I personally like to think christians are more like the first type. That way, I can actually stand dealing with them :-P
 
RichardE40K said:
... I’ve always had a problem with Christianity’s history, we killed each other as in protestants and Catholics. We killed our saints such as Joan of arc in the name of the lord. Even further more by killing other races, homosexuals and what not. A lot of people see us as tyrants, about to shout out about how Satan has consumed them and condemning to hell. That is something I hear no end, I condemn you to hell, weird no. I don’t believe its our job to do that as that’s god, secondly hell in my eyes does not exist, more so on earth.

Anyway people can do what they like but the main fact is, Christianity on a whole will have to become tolerant. We have had to change for other things, this is no different in many respects.

The man who has nothing, may still have faith.
Whether or not you have a problem with Christianity's history is pointless in a discussion like this. You base the morals of an entire Faith on a small percentage of Christian and Christian leaders and that is unfair. Plus, just a very small fraction of all the killing done in wars and whatever were done in the name of God.

This nation, for the most part, was comprised of Christians and other God-fearing people. (I use the word fear in it's Biblical sense) We were tolerant of other beliefs from the start, which is why our founding fathers split from the Brits in the first place. In time, we not only tolerated, we embraced those of a different skin color, nationality, religion, sex, etc. Noiw that the boat is getting full, the first group you all want to throw overboard are the Christians??? Now, who are the intolerant ones?

Please read this:

'Tolerance is a Christian Idea'
by Wendy Cloyd, senior editorial coordinator

How can a country and government founded on the premise of religious tolerance now be intolerant of religion? Author William Federer traces the origin of tolerance to Christianity and explains just what went awry.

In his book "Backfired: A Nation Born for Religious Tolerance No Longer Tolerates Religion," William Federer delves deep into the archives of American history. From the time the first colonists set foot on a new continent in search of the freedom to worship God as they wished to the politically divided nation today, Federer documents the origin and progression of religious tolerance and discusses why the very concept has backfired, leaving Christianity out in the cold.

The first migrants from England were fed up with the king forcing his chosen religion on the country and punishing any who had a different point of view. These Puritans arrived in the New World in pursuit of religious freedom, and soon others began to follow. Many held different beliefs than the Puritans, but all wanted the same thing -- the freedom to worship as they believed without the government dictating a national religion.

As more and more people moved to America, the once homogeneous Puritans became neighbors with Protestants, Catholics and those of myriad Christian faiths. The Christians that came to America insisted on the right to worship freely, and Federer says it was this mixture that taught neighbors to tolerate each other's differences.

"In order to be intellectually consistent, the Puritans had to extend the same rights they demanded for themselves to other Christian groups," Federer told CitizenLink. "Out of this is born the concept of tolerance."

CitizenLink talked further with Federer about the genesis of tolerance and about his book.

Q: Mr. Federer, you discuss an evolution of toleranceâ€â€Christians learning to accept other Christians who believed differently, Christians learning to accept other religions and those who held religious beliefs accepting those who did not. Tell me about that.

A: In England the control over religion was from the outsideâ€â€the king told you what to believe and how to worship. Those who fled this system wanted to create a system of belief that was personalâ€â€without government control. If you didn't believe, then you were persecuted and you fled.

The first group to do that was the Puritans. They were separatists who wanted to "purify" the church. Then in 1630 began the great migrationâ€â€starting with 20,000 who left England for America. Even then they only tolerated other Puritans. You'll remember from history lessons that they hung witches. But they also hung Quakers and anyone who believed differently. So then people began breaking off into colonies to have the freedom to worship.

The nation became more and more diverse as Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and even non-believers began to live side by side. It was never anticipated that there would be huge waves of immigrants coming to our country. But out of this was born evangelismâ€â€the idea that you would welcome non-Christians into your neighborhood so you could love them in Christ and share your faith. And out of this was born religious tolerance.

This progression of an all-inclusive society with tolerance for personal belief has now resulted in a society now intolerant of religion. How did this happen?

In Islamic countries religion is forced from the outside inâ€â€they even have religious police. But in America, Christians said "Jesus never forced anyone to believe in Him, so we shouldn't." The Sermon on the Mount where Jesus said "Do unto others"â€â€that is a Christian idea.

But now many of are using that freedomâ€â€the freedom gained from the progression of toleranceâ€â€against Christians. In strict Islamic societies, they prohibit Judeo-Christian expression. And now the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) is doing the same in our country.

Tell me, in a nutshell, what your book is about. What are you trying to get across to the reader?

The purpose is to approach the whole separation of church and state debate from an entirely new angle. When secularists try to say that Christians are intolerant, we need to point out that tolerance is a Christian idea and secularists are indebted to Christians for their freedom. It is a fact that this country was not founded by secularists. Christians in Europe fled to America and insisted on the right to worship freely.

The country was born out of Christians tolerating Christians then tolerating non-Christians. History shows that the tolerance all lifestyles are enjoying todayâ€â€they are indebted to Christians.

Some people say that we can't rely on documents and opinions of the founding fathers to define America because it is a different world today than it was hundreds of years ago. Why is the idea of the Constitution as a living document a dangerous one?

Human nature has not changed, and the Constitution is a limit on greedy human nature. In England the King held all power. It was Lord Acton that said, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." So they divided the power in threeâ€â€executive, legislative and judicial.

The Constitution is based on the biblical idea of fallen manâ€â€that sinners will keep other sinners from sinning. If you have three boys and one piece of pie they all want, the best way to divide the pie is to have one draw, one cut and one assign who gets which piece. They all want to be sure they get enough, so they'll do it fairly.

The Constitution assumes concentrated power is evil. The only alternative to the Constitution is concentrated power. And once government gets power -- even emergency powerâ€â€they keep it.

If you knock away the legs of the table, don't be surprised when the table falls. Take away the foundation of our governmentâ€â€the Judeo Christian foundationâ€â€don't be surprised when the system falls.

Most people who read this book will be people of faith, people who experience intolerance but aren't sure what to do about it. What do you hope they learn from your book?

To win an argument you have to cite an authority both sides respect. You can't pull out your Bible and begin reciting Scripture to a non-believer. You won't win the argument.

So look to the historical documents and speeches of John F. Kennedy and Harry S. Truman, for example. Let these people and documents of history that the other side respects be used in support of your own argument. Kennedy and Truman understood the importance of our religious foundation.

If you look up the definition of religion, it means "a system of belief." Look up "religion," look up "belief"â€â€our government is a belief system with its foundations in religion. You can't have a separation of government and belief system.

There are those that want their own thoughts to underlie the actions of government instead of the Judeo-Christian foundation. If they are saying, "The founders had it but we don't need it," then you take away a standard and you end up with chaos.

Tell me any final thoughts you'd like to share.

Look at other countries who do not have religious toleranceâ€â€who do not allow the Judeo-Christian faithâ€â€and then examine the history of America. Christians birthed the progression of tolerance. Polls say 78 percent of Americas are Christian. Yet our courts are targeting the Judeo-Christian faith.

Remember the words of Calvin Coolidge: "Unless the faith of the American in these religious convictions is to endure, the principles of our Declaration will perish. We can not continue to enjoy the result if we abandon the cause."
http://www.family.org/cforum/feature/a0037461.cfm

You people ought to count you blessings. In some countries, you might be killed for pubically condoning the act of homosexuality.

One more thing... from the above article:

To win an argument you have to cite an authority both sides respect. You can't pull out your Bible and begin reciting Scripture to a non-believer. You won't win the argument.
This may or not be the case with unbelievers, but it should not be so with fellow believers.
 
peace4all said:
I have met many "christians" like richard, and they are very nice people. They can be nice to you, or be your friend, REGARDLESS of what your beliefs are. They are truly nice people, that give christianity the loving, reaching out, kind of name, that some think it has.

It sounds like secular point of view. I live in America for over 30 years and haven't met many Christians reaching out to the lost for the Lord except Jehovah's witness and Mormons. I don't exclude them as non-believers. I am neither of them. I don't belong to any church organization. I am Jesus' follower.

Someone is lying or exaggerating, either you or me.
 
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