Senate tackles gay marriage ban

[gingercat]

You know, hitomi, when you say "It is so strange to me" I could also hit back with the same thing to you and others.

All of my life I wanted be fair to everyone around me. I always struggled to find right way of doing it.

I wanted to be fair to everyone because I was so unhappy in my family situation. I was always loner and introverted and deep thinker. When I was child I always thought about God in my own way. My family was always the poorest in everywhere we went. Okinawan people were generally poor but not anything like my family. We were living like primitive people because my father was alchoholic and incapable to provide for the family. My mother was ashamed of our family situation.

Anyway, this kind of back ground helped me to be wanting to be fair to everyone around me because I thought things are so unfair. I did not want be a part of the unfair world.

In Japan, being religious means they are trying to be righteous and most of the Christians are godly and have reputations of godliness in their lives. They are not called being hypocrites.

I married churchgoing person and came to the States and got disillusioned greatly of this so called Christian society's hypocricy, and this made me stay away from the churches.

Seven years ago, I was desperate enough to ask God to make me a Christian. (I was desperate enough to just die but I was sane enough to think about our kids)

I have learned what makes people hypocrites.

Please read my thread "love your enemy".

From your posts, I gather you are not committed to God and Jesus. You are playing Christian and love.

Please forgive me for being so blunt. This is my honenst opinion.

 

[Vic C.]

I have met many "christians" like richard, and they are very nice people. They can be nice to you, or be your friend, REGARDLESS of what your beliefs are. They are truly nice people, that give christianity the loving, reaching out, kind of name, that some think it has.

I have met man "christians" that are liek other memebrs on this forum, that preach discrimination (although they wont call it that) and hate (or that either) and refuse to accept people that are not the same as them.

Both call themselves christians, and there are hundreds of thousands on both sides, that think THEY are the true christians, and the other half arent.

Its funny, because, either all of them are wrong, Or half of them are wrong :-P

I personally like to think christians are more like the first type. That way, I can actually stand dealing with them :-P

That's because the World and even some Christian despise having that mirror put in front of them. They don't like their transgressions reflected back on them, so they turn a blind eye.

James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
James 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

You judge people based on how "nice" they appear to be, but remember two things:

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

2 Cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2 Cor 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Why do I bother? Some are even blind to Scripture. :-?

 

[SputnikBoy]

Richard,

It does not seem you believe the Bible is Word of God. If your faith is so uncommitted you are not different from any other religions.

Richard doesn't need me to fight his battles but I believe that I know his heart. He's sent me a couple of very heartfelt PMs - hope he doesn't mind my telling this - expressing his concern for what is going on here on this thread. His concern is VERY Christian I'll have you know.

Please, hitomi, don't be questioning him in that judgmental tone about whether or not he believes that the Bible is the Word of God. I'm sure that he does but even if he doesn't that really wouldn't be anyone's business but Richard's.

You, hitomi, and others, need to realize that Christians are all at different levels in their walk and, Christians or not, we are not necessarily clones of each other. You are not me, I'm not Lewis, Lewis isn't sehad. Isn't it great that we're all different from each other but STILL treasures of God anyway?

Are you an athiest also?

Also from what? Although the question is aimed at Richard ...he is not, I can assure you. But even if he was, what is it to you, hitomi? You have that judgmental tone again. There are a number of atheists who participate on this forum. And why not? You can usually pick them out from the Christians by their reluctance of judging others.

This is a Christian forum:

Thanks for that reminder, hitomi. Sometimes it's hard to tell with all of the hissing and the spitting that goes on.

It is only fare that you should state your position.

So that you can treat him ...how?

 

[RichardE40K]

I knew my faith in the lord and bible would come into this, ah well so be it. I have faith in the lord and god but I am also a rational scientific man with many views outside of the bible. As one person told me, it is better this then being a clone of the book. One book should not dictate you’re life, weather you follow the bible to all words does not determine if you are Christian or not, it only determines that you are willing to follow a lot of words of men. The bible is based on studies of god, god did not write the bible. Man did. This is why I prefer the New Testament, the studies of Jesus are much more loving and tolerant for me. I won’t base my life on a book, if people have a problem with this, I’m not sorry. I’m using the brain god blessed me with for my own decisions instead of being a puppet.

And thank you peace for all, I try to be as loving and tolerant as I can be, and a friend to anyone, no matter who or what backgrounds they have. Like I have said I am what say a Sinner and can be very intolerant towards all people at times, no ones perfect but I still try as best I can.

And to answer over history, yea maybe some countries persecute but that’s not the point, England does not. I don’t plan on moving so I can only really quote on what is happening here, and it was not outside knowledge and churches that ruled us. We split from the pope due to one of our kings (Henry the eighth, bit of a tyrant) and made the Church Of England, which I am part of. I like the values of the protestants “all men are equals, we have authorities over each other but we are neither great or bad men in gods eyesâ€Â.

If anyone still believes I go against gods teachings, let them. At the end of the day we will all die the same way and have to face the almighty. Maybe I am wrong and will be punished but I don’t think so. I think we need love and understanding in such a cold and corrupt world. I’m just glad I know Jesus is with me so I don’t fear new things and change.

I don’t think people I argue with are not Christians, I just think they need to open the hearts a bit more. Everyone Is welcome in gods kingdom, just lead a good life.

 

[SputnikBoy]

[quote="Lewis W":3573a]You know I just don't get it. Do you guy's even read the Bible ? What does the Bible say about homosexuality ? Now if the Bible says that it is a abomination of man kind. That is just what it is. Who is man to try and take and water down the Word of God. The Bible is clear on what it is. The Lord said. I am the Lord. I change not. What do you think because we are living in modern times, the Lord has changed, His stance on gays ? And you people are telling me that I should except it. And because we oppose it we are on a witch hunt ? All because we believe what the Bible says. Anf if the Bible says it is wrong we Christians are supposed to say that it is wrong. We would be less than Christians, if we did not say that it was wrong. So condoning homosexual behavior will not be tolerated on this board. It sends out the wrong signals. Those comments about homosexual virgins being ok is what prompted this post.

Hey, hey, Lewis, what is going on here? Then you DISAPPROVE of a celibate homosexual? What exactly ARE you saying? Please don't pull the plug on this topic until you come clean. I'll even put the question to you so that it will save you the time.

So you believe that the Bible condemns 'the orientation' of homosexuality ALONE ...with or without that individual ACTING on that orientation? Yes? No?

Yes.

[/quote:3573a]

Thanks for your honesty, Lewis. At least we know where you stand. Words - other than nasty ones - fail me at the moment. May God forgive you is about all I can squeeze out. :

 

[destiny]

I have met many "christians" like richard, and they are very nice people. They can be nice to you, or be your friend, REGARDLESS of what your beliefs are. They are truly nice people, that give christianity the loving, reaching out, kind of name, that some think it has.

I have met man "christians" that are liek other memebrs on this forum, that preach discrimination (although they wont call it that) and hate (or that either) and refuse to accept people that are not the same as them.

Both call themselves christians, and there are hundreds of thousands on both sides, that think THEY are the true christians, and the other half arent.

Its funny, because, either all of them are wrong, Or half of them are wrong :-P

I personally like to think christians are more like the first type. That way, I can actually stand dealing with them :-P

If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you.
If you were of the world, the world would love its own. But because you are not of the world, since I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.'
John 15:18-19

Not in every case, but sometimes it's just a simple case of one worldly person recognizing a another worldly person. And they are brethren.
I see a lot of so-called 'christians' joined at the hip with nonbelievers on forums, mostly because they are equally yoked together and likeminded.
sometimes it is so obvious.

 

[peace4all]

I have met many "christians" like richard, and they are very nice people. They can be nice to you, or be your friend, REGARDLESS of what your beliefs are. They are truly nice people, that give christianity the loving, reaching out, kind of name, that some think it has.

I have met man "christians" that are liek other memebrs on this forum, that preach discrimination (although they wont call it that) and hate (or that either) and refuse to accept people that are not the same as them.

Both call themselves christians, and there are hundreds of thousands on both sides, that think THEY are the true christians, and the other half arent.

Its funny, because, either all of them are wrong, Or half of them are wrong :-P

I personally like to think christians are more like the first type. That way, I can actually stand dealing with them :-P

If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you.
If you were of the world, the world would love its own. But because you are not of the world, since I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.'
John 15:18-19

Not in every case, but sometimes it's just a simple case of one worldly person recognizing a another worldly person. And they are brethren.
I see a lot of so-called 'christians' joined at the hip with nonbelievers on forums, mostly because they are equally yoked together and likeminded.
sometimes it is so obvious.

as some christians say, we are all brothers, and we are all given the same oppurtunities and chances by God, however, it is up to you, to follow the correct path.

There may be incidents where non believers, and believers alike, follow the same path (its evident that pretty much anyone, regardless of religion, agree's that murder, and theft, and rape, are all wrong)

It is not surprising that some christians agree with soem atheists, as some atheists agree with some christians. We are all still humans.

Ginger:
I have met christians that "pretend" to fit into either o the categories i listed, sure. There are the ones that are all nice to sinners on teh outside, just to draw them to jesus, but will turn right around and insult and preach hate against them, Just as their are christians that attend anti-gay rallies, that, they themselves, struggle with being in the closet, or dealing with homosexuality. Sure. However, the amount of either of those, are soo much smaller, I left them out of my generalization. Sorry.

Vic:

That's because the World and even some Christian despise having that mirror put in front of them. They don't like their transgressions reflected back on them, so they turn a blind eye.

I absolutely agree. There are Christians, and atheists, on BOTH sides, that will preach hate, and then turn around and secretly sin teh same way (or do what they hate) or that will preach love, and will turn around and trashtalk it behind its back. Absolutely. No Person likes to believe that THEY are at fault. Look at people liek Pat Robertson. He gets rich, off of condeming people for sin, while he is just filling his greedy sins through all of the donations he recieves. Same as Falwell, ore even Michale Moore.

Why bother posting scripture?

That's because the World and even some Christian despise having that mirror put in front of them. They don't like their transgressions reflected back on them, so they turn a blind eye.

For behold, they had rather sacrifice their lives than even to take the life of their enemy; and they have buried their weapons of war deep in the earth, because of their love towards their brethren.

4.Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Book of Mormon, Alma 26.32

or, one of my favorite, because it is very, well, to say the least.. creepy

Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God; for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord." No, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him drink; for by doing so you will heap burning coals upon his head."

17.Christianity. Romans 12.19-20

(these quotes pertain more to the discussion as a whole, than to people being blind of their own sins.

 

[RichardE40K]

I just see myself as a Christian due to the fact, I belive in christ. You can be as holy as you want but as stated can you practice what you preach? I sometimes cant, thats why I openly say I am a sinner at times. I don't like to judge as I know I will be unfairly judged by others in parts of my life, and I know what judgement feels like from you're fellow man.

 

[Lewis]

[quote="Lewis W":6b701]You know I just don't get it. Do you guy's even read the Bible ? What does the Bible say about homosexuality ? Now if the Bible says that it is a abomination of man kind. That is just what it is. Who is man to try and take and water down the Word of God. The Bible is clear on what it is. The Lord said. I am the Lord. I change not. What do you think because we are living in modern times, the Lord has changed, His stance on gays ? And you people are telling me that I should except it. And because we oppose it we are on a witch hunt ? All because we believe what the Bible says. Anf if the Bible says it is wrong we Christians are supposed to say that it is wrong. We would be less than Christians, if we did not say that it was wrong. So condoning homosexual behavior will not be tolerated on this board. It sends out the wrong signals. Those comments about homosexual virgins being ok is what prompted this post.

Hey, hey, Lewis, what is going on here? Then you DISAPPROVE of a celibate homosexual? What exactly ARE you saying? Please don't pull the plug on this topic until you come clean. I'll even put the question to you so that it will save you the time.

So you believe that the Bible condemns 'the orientation' of homosexuality ALONE ...with or without that individual ACTING on that orientation? Yes? No?

[quote="Lewis W":6b701]Yes.

Thanks for your honesty, Lewis. At least we know where you stand. Words - other than nasty ones - fail me at the moment. May God forgive you is about all I can squeeze out. : [/quote:6b701][/quote:6b701]
May God forgive me, for what. Because I say what His word says. I don't hate them. I love them too. I just don't have to except their behavior, because the Bible does not except it. But I do love them.

 

[peace4all]

you are right, you dont have to accept their behavior.
But I choose to look at the passages that say you shouldn't stop them from doing it.

 

[gingercat]

Ginger:
I have met christians that "pretend" to fit into either o the categories i listed, sure. There are the ones that are all nice to sinners on teh outside, just to draw them to jesus, but will turn right around and insult and preach hate against them, Just as their are christians that attend anti-gay rallies, that, they themselves, struggle with being in the closet, or dealing with homosexuality. Sure. However, the amount of either of those, are soo much smaller, I left them out of my generalization. Sorry.

No one is saying homosexuals are sinners and others are not! According to the Bible ALL humans are sinners.

I am protesting to protect Jesus' teachings, period. Jesus is giving me the privilege and responsibilty to speak up for my faith. I don't practice pick-and-choose type of faith. I am not perfect but I do my best not to be hypocrite. I have learned that if we practice pick-and-choose Christianity we will be hypocrites.

If you don't respect or appreciate Jesus' whole teachings why do you even bother being a Christian?

 

[RichardE40K]

Because everything should be challenged.

 

[gingercat]

Because everything should be challenged.

Are you responding to my post?

Jesus died for His teachings and is that all you have to say? You don't respect and appreciate all of His teachings?

 

[RichardE40K]

I never said that, All i said was that everything deserves to be challenged. I have challenged many of his teachings, and proved through myself that they are amazing and very wise.

 

[gingercat]

I never said that, All i said was that everything deserves to be challenged. I have challenged many of his teachings, and proved through myself that they are amazing and very wise.

Why do you call yourself Christian if you don't trust His teachings?

 

[RichardE40K]

I do trust his teach his teachings, I just wanted to challenge them. Iv 'e just been brought up to challenge anything that I dont know is 100% true. I'm gald I did, made me a better christian and more understanding of his teachings ^^.

 

[Lewis]

Wait a mintue people, Jesus does not approve of homosexuality. So if that is what a few of you think you are dead wrong. The Bible says that the effeminate can't even make it to heaven. The Bible also says that they should die. Don't go getting on my case, because the Word of God said it. I did not write the Bible. But Holy men of God, who spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
So what I see here is a lot of ignoring God's Word's. Now if a gay person repents from the heart, yes God will forgive them but those who don't will be turned over to a reprobate mind, and sent to hell, period. And there is no other way around it. Now as Christians we are suppose to give them the Word of God, and if they reject it, and want to remain the way that they are, they are going to hell. God did not create man to have sex with man. And that garbage I am a women trapped in a mans body is garbage. Or I was born gay. Nobody is born gay, somewhere along the line, their thinking got twisted. You can say what you want, but not one of you wrote that book. Some of you are saying how you think it should be, and completely ignoring God's Word.

 

[RichardE40K]

Oh well, I say some words of god then are wrong if that's the case. Plus I don't belive in hell. I belive earth is more hell, and death is freedom.

 

[Lewis]

Oh well, I say some words of god then are wrong if that's the case. Plus I don't belive in hell. I belive earth is more hell, and death is freedom.

Well from those staments I know that you are not a Christian.

 

[RichardE40K]

I will let myself be the judge of that, and jesus. Not you. I mean you hear about a loving good god who forgives all. And jesus who died for all our sins. So how can people be condemend to hell if he is loving and our sins have been died for by Jesus Almighty? It makes no sence to me. But even if I'm not a christian in you're eyes, which I am. I know I'm a very good person, I help charities and help anyone who wishes it. There is pleanty of holier then thou christians that hwen it comes to practicing thier faith with humanity, they couldent give a damn.

Let me be judged by the lord as the almighty sees fit. I see his eternal light, and I follow in faith and gentleness.