Seventh-day Adventist

[RND]

Hi!

This thread has been set up to counter a thread that has cropped up that is attempting to label the Seventh-day Adventist denomination as a non-Christian "cult." I have just a few ground rules and those are related to asking questions about the SDA fundamental beliefs.

Please 1) Limit your comments to the fundamental beliefs of the church, and 2) Please do not post anything from a cite that is considered "anti-SDA."

I will be happy to answer any question here that I can or I'm sure other SDA's that post here will do the same. This thread is not being set-up for any other reason than to answer questions you may have about the SDA church. You will see that by examining our FB's that for the most part we have the same general beliefs of most Christian denominations. I do recognize there are differences.

One area where I'm sure we agree is that we believe in the Godhead (trinity to most) of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and that these three are one in identity and purpose.

 

[jasoncran]

i asked that reasercher change the name of the other thread, if both go south i will close them.

 

[RND]

i asked that reasercher change the name of the other thread, if both go south i will close them.

Since I was fairly straight forward in my requests about the nature of this thread I do not anticipate it "going south." Questions based on the church FB's only. Thanks Jason.

 

[toddm]

Just gonna C&P from the other thread...

Just read through the SDA statement of beliefs and was in agreement w/ much of it. I think #'s 18 & 24 are the 2 that start to venture outside of the more orthodox view. Could someone elaborate on these two and what are the "big differences" between the older school of SDAs and today?

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

24. Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary:
There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Heb. 8:1-5; 4:14-16; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; 1:3; 2:16, 17; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Lev. 16; Rev. 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:12.)

#24 is definitely a bit confusing and would love to hear more about this.

 

[RND]

Hi toddm and thank you for your inquiry. I'm going to answer each one separately I've that's OK.

Just gonna C&P from the other thread...

...what are the "big differences" between the older school of SDAs and today?

Well you should aware that the SDA church is no different in terms of being attacked by Satan than any other church. In fact I think even more so since I believe the SDA church was entrusted with a very important last day message....the Three Angel Messages.

Older school SDA's are considered in out church as "traditional" whereas the newer and less conservative are considered to be "progressive." Traditional is more in keeping with the original values of our church, like most churches....traditional music, sermons, etc. Progressive worship is just that, progressive, and includes a lot of CCM, visual stimuli, etc.

In my home church today we have two services, one traditional the other progressive. We rarely have anything of note read in either service of our prophet, Ellen White, but somehow they managed to present a quote from Rick Warren in our program today. Rick Warren over Ellen White? Please!

Essentially what we are seeing is a changing of what we were once used to in favor of a bunch of ecumenical worship. Standard less.

 

[RND]

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

Just as it says one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is the gift of prophecy. This does not simply refer to being some magical seer who's eyes glaze over when asked a question and in fact revolves much around teaching and understand that any good pastor would feed his flock.

Ellen White is considered by a number of SDA's (that number is dwindling as Satan continues his work) as a true messenger from God; a prophet that, through her writings, brings additional insight and understanding into the word of God. Again, just like any good pastor would do. But there is no question that a number of her predictions and visions have come true in our recent history.

At a meeting held in Dorchester, Massachusetts, November, 1848, EGW had been given a vision of the duty of the brethren to publish the light that was shining upon our pathway.

"After coming out of vision, I said to my husband: "I have a message for you. You must begin to print a little paper and send it out to the people. Let it be small at first; but as the people read, they will send you means with which to print, and it will be a success from the first. From this small beginning it was shown to me to be like streams of light that went clear round the world."" {CET 128.2}

Many believe she had a vision of TV and the spreading of the word of God. As a result Adventist had the first Christian TV show broadcast. It Is Written is still being broadcast today.

The test of any prophet is in Isaiah 8:20 and my personal belief is EGW has met this test.

 

[RND]

24. Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary:
There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Heb. 8:1-5; 4:14-16; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; 1:3; 2:16, 17; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Lev. 16; Rev. 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:12.)

#24 is definitely a bit confusing and would love to hear more about this.

This is a description of the Investigative Judgment or IJ for short.

After incorrectly assuming the end of the age in 1843 and 1844 William Miller went home but some decided to rededicate their lives to the scriptures and study and find out where Miller went wrong in his understanding. They assumed the cleansing of the sanctuary in Daniel 8 meant Jesus would return, not understanding that He went into the second compartment of the heavenly sanctuary to cleanse the Most Holy Place.

The IJ is God's way of allowing the heavenly host, the universe and all of mankind to examine all that God as done for the salvation of mankind and make a determination in favor of, or opposed to God. The hour of "His" judgment has come. God's attempt at saving all of mankind from the ravages of sin and the accusations of the lawless one is so thoroughly complete and perfect that He can stand to be examined by His very creation. At the same time God is also judging the faithful who have fallen asleep and are awaiting resurrection as well as all the living inhabitants of earth to make certain sin will not rise again.

In the parable of Matthew 22 the same figure of the marriage is introduced, and the investigative Judgment is clearly represented as taking place before the marriage. Previous to the wedding the king comes in to see the guests, [Matthew 22:11.]--to see if all are attired in the wedding garment, the spotless robe of character washed and made white in the blood of the Lamb. [Revelation 7:14.] He who is found wanting is cast out, but all who upon examination are seen to have the wedding garment on, are accepted of God, and accounted worthy of a share in his kingdom and a seat upon his throne. This work of examination of character, of determining who are prepared for the kingdom of God, is that of the investigative Judgment, the closing work in the sanctuary above.

When the work of investigation shall be ended, when the cases of those who in all ages have professed to be followers of Christ have been examined and decided, then, and not till then, probation will close, and the door of mercy will be shut. Thus in the one short sentence, "They that were ready went in with him to the marriage, and the door was shut," we are carried down through the Saviour's final ministration, to the time when the great work for man's salvation shall be completed.

In the service of the earthly sanctuary, which, as we have seen, is a figure of the service in the heavenly, when the high priest on the day of atonement entered the most holy place, the ministration in the first apartment ceased. God commanded, "There shall be no man in the tabernacle of the congregation when he goeth in to make an atonement in the holy place, until he come out." [Leviticus 16:17.] So when Christ entered the holy of holies to perform the closing work of the atonement, he ceased his ministration in the first apartment. But when the ministration in the first apartment ended, the ministration in the second apartment began. When in the typical service the high priest left the holy on the day of atonement, he went in before God to present the blood of the sin-offering in behalf of all Israel who truly repented of their sins. So Christ had only completed one part of his work as our intercessor, to enter upon another portion of the work, and he still pleaded his blood before the Father in behalf of sinners.

This subject was not understood by Adventists in 1844. After the passing of the time when the Saviour was expected, they still believed his coming to be near; they held that they had reached an important crisis, and that the work of Christ as man's intercessor before God, had ceased. It appeared to them to be taught in the Bible, that man's probation would close a short time before the actual coming of the Lord in the clouds of heaven. This seemed evident from those scriptures which point to a time when men will seek, knock, and cry at the door of mercy, and it will not be opened. And it was a question with them whether the date to which they had looked for the coming of Christ might not rather mark the beginning of this period which was to immediately precede his coming. Having given the warning of the Judgment near, they felt that their work for the world was done, and they lost their burden of soul for the salvation of sinners, while the bold and blasphemous scoffing of the ungodly seemed to them another evidence that the Spirit of God had been withdrawn from the rejecters of his mercy. All this confirmed them in the belief that probation had ended, or, as they then expressed it, "the door of mercy was shut."

But clearer light came with the investigation of the sanctuary question. They now saw that they were correct in believing that the end of the 2300 days in 1844 marked an important crisis. But while it was true that that door of hope and mercy by which men had for eighteen hundred years found access to God was closed, another door was opened, and forgiveness of sins was offered to men through the intercession of Christ in the most holy. One part of his ministration had closed, only to give place to another. There was still an "open door" to the heavenly sanctuary where Christ was ministering in the sinner's behalf.

Now was seen the application of those words of Christ in the revelation, addressed to the church at this very time: "These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth: I know thy works; behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it." [Revelation 3:7, 8.]

It is those who by faith follow Jesus in the great work of the atonement, who receive the benefits of his mediation in their behalf; while those who reject the light which brings to view this work of ministration, are not benefited thereby. The Jews who rejected the light given at Christ's first advent, and refused to believe on him as the Saviour of the world, could not receive pardon through him. When Jesus at his ascension entered by his own blood into the heavenly sanctuary to shed upon his disciples the blessings of his mediation, the Jews were left in total darkness, to continue their useless sacrifices and offerings. The ministration of types and shadows had ceased. That door by which men had formerly found access to God, was no longer open. The Jews had refused to seek him in the only way whereby he could then be found, through the ministration in the sanctuary in Heaven. Therefore they found no communion with God. To them the door was shut. They had no knowledge of Christ as the true sacrifice and the only mediator before God; hence they could not receive the benefits of his mediation. -- Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, Chapter XXIV - In the Holy of Holies

 

[brakelite]

Hi guys. I'd like to add a little if I may to the discussion, perhaps another perspective.
Miller was just one of many of that era worldwide who began to preach of the second coming. This was not the work of just one man, but of the Holy Spirit. The early 19th century saw the beginning of the end times that we speak of today. I believe it was our Lord's intention that the world be made aware at this time of the prophecies regarding the second coming. Daniel speaks of 'knowledge' increasing in the last days. This worldwide spiritual awakening and study of prophecy was a fulfilment of this. The 2300 days/years of Daniel 8 was the catalyst for many of the teachings of these studies. That they ended in 1844 was not Milers idea alone. Medieval Jewish scholars saw the time periods of Daniel as years, and fixed them to the 'end-times'. Nahawendi, Saadia, Jeroham, and Hakhen, then in the 11th century Rashi, as well as many others, regarded the 2300 days as years. Many scholars also included the 70 weeks in that period, and counted both as starting at the same time. The 70 weeks being 'cut off', or 'determined', from the 2300 years. Many Christians of high office in various churches in America, prior to Miller, recognised that the 2300 years would culminate in the 1840s. This date they all taught was significant, in that it brought either judgment, the latter rain, or similar. In fact at least 60 teachers of the gospel over several continents taught this, and all of them published their expectations prior to Millers first book in 1836.
It is an impressive historical background that precedes SDA teaching. There are sound reasons why we place the termination of the 2300 years in 1844 (beginning in 457BC). That it wasn't the actual second coming is obvious. But the date still stands. So what happened? More Bible study concluded that Jesus entered the "Holy Place" of the heavenly sanctuary, to fulfil the type of the entering of the Holy Place by the OT priests on the Day of Atonement. We believe we are now living in the antitypical day of atonement, which was the penultimate feast of the Jewish economy, the last being the feat of tabernacles, which antitype we will celebrate in heaven.

It was asserted on another thread that E G White 'invented' the 1844 message. Ellen White never introduced or taught new doctrine.Any new understanding of scripture came solely from bible study first, and if EGW had any part to play, it was in confirmation through her gift. It is true however, that it was certainly to complete the work of atonement. Just as the sacrifice of the lamb in the OT was but the first step in the act of atonement, as the priest entered the sanctuary and ministered the blood there, so Christ entered heaven to minister there as our Mediator.

 

[brakelite]

Here is a more full understanding of how Adventists (at least the more traditional as RND describes them) view what actually took place in 1844.
It is a long answer, hope you all can follow....
In the 23rd chapter of Leviticus are recorded the feats and holy days or sabbaths which the Lord commanded Israel to observe. 3 of them were absolutely compulsory for every male to attend. Passover, Pentecost, and the Feast of Tabernacles. There were 7 feast days or holy sabbaths aside from the weekly sabbath and the new moons. The first 3 feasts took place in the first month, Abib, the 4th 50 days after the 3rd, and the final 3 occurred in the 7th month,Ethanim. The first 3 in spring, the final 3 in autumn, or fall.

These holy days or feasts were a pictorial presentation of the gospel. Each festival was a shadow or type of a particular stage or facet of the ministry of Jesus. The first 3 feasts were indicative of Jesus death and resurrection. The 4th feast focused upon the church, the last 3 focus on events surrounding the second coming. Most of us are aware of how Jesus is described as the "Passover Lamb" (1 Cor. 5:7) . In Rev 5:6 John sees Jesus as a Lamb as it had been slain. There are several parallels between the passover and the death of Jesus. Right down to the day He died.

In close association with Passover was the feast of unleavened bread, although in reality they were the same observance, only with different purposes. Leaven was a type of sin. No leaven was to be found anywhere in the house at the time of Passover, so this was indicative of repentance, a time when Israel was to be mindful of to be free from unconfessed sin and free from condemnation. It is interesting to note that the death of the lamb was sufficient to secure the salvation of anyone. Egyptians were saved from the destroying angel if they were in the house of an Israeli at the time of the passover. The blood was applied to the door post; thus there must be an individual and personal application of the sacrifice; the priest in the sanctuary likewise had to take the blood into the sanctuary and sprinkle it before the veil. Also, as in the original, the flesh had to be eaten. Jesus Himself said we must eat His flesh - He is the Bread of Life. The whole concept of salvation for the Jew was a process, not a one off act. The shadow portrayed the idea that we must fully assimilate Christ into our lives in order to be saved.

The presentation of firstfruits was a part of the feast of unleavened bread. It lasted 7 days, beginning with a sabbath on the first day after passover (which is not a sabbath), and ended with a sabbath 7 days later. The feast of firstfruits took place on the 3rd day after passover. The passover was on the 14th day of the month, the next day was a sabbath being the first day of the feast of unleavened bread, the next day was the feast of firstfruits.Here is absolute and irrefutable proof that Jesus was raised on the 3rd day. He fulfilled the shadow to the letter. The offering made on that day was an acceptable offering. It was a presentation of the firstfruits and has a direct relevance to 1 Cor. 15:23 "Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming." After Jesus died, He spent the Sabbath in the tomb resting, and rose on the 3rd day. But the first thing Christ had to do was appear in the presence of His Father and hear from Him that His death was not in vain, but was a sacrifice fully acceptable and sufficient. Just as the wave offering of the firstfruits, Jesus had to appear before the Father for acceptance. The gospel story reveals this to us when Jesus asked Mary not to touch Him for He had not yet ascended to the Father, yet later, invites Thomas to place his finger in His hand, or his hand in His side. Thus when Jesus returned, He then knew His sacrifice had been accepted, and was then able to act as man's Saviour and Mediator. Then, and only then, could we "touch" Him.

To be continued.....

 

[RND]

Brakelite! Long time! Good to see you brother!

 

[brakelite]

Hello my friend, yes it has been a long time. Compliments of the season.

 

[brakelite]

....continued:
Pentecost came 50 days after the presentation of the wave sheaf. Pentecost is symbolic of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. We know what the disciples were doing on this day; they were gathered together awaiting the fulfilment of Jesus' promise. But what was Jesus doing? He had ascended to heaven 10 days earlier, but what was happening in heaven that was the fulfillment of the shadow?
After Pentecost, Peter explained to the multitude what it was they were witnessing. In Acts 2:29-33 Peter says: "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear." And in verse 36 we read "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."
In Hebrews 7:28; 8:1 we are told that Jesus has been consecrated and made a Hi8gh priest in the heavenly sanctuary. In the OT priests were consecrated and anointed with oil at the beginning of their ministry. We read how oil was poured out upon Aaron, and how the oil ran down upon his beard and to his clothes onto the ground. Oil is indicative of the Holy Spirit. Jesus also was anointed as we saw in Acts 2:33. He received this anointing to minister from His Father and as Hebrews tells us, He then began His ministry as High priest. However, the scriptures tell us that we also are priests. The apostles began their ministry as priests at Pentecost, when they received the anointing of the Holy Spirit as it came off the robes of Christ and fell to the earth and consecrated His disciples in that upper room.

Thus the church age began. As there was a long period between Pentecost and the next feast day in the OT economy, so we would expect a long period from the beginning of the church age to the next feast, the antitypical fulfillment of the "feast of trumpets." What was the purpose of the original "feast of trumpets"? It was a solemn call for Israel to meet their God on the soon coming Day of Atonement. The day of judgement was coming, and they must prepare. It was a merciful reminder that they needed to confess all sin, and consecrate themselves. The period of preparation was known as the ten days of Tishri. By the time The Day (Yom Kippur) arrived, all Israel it was to be hoped, had had a change of heart, and ready to face the final judgment. Historically, Jewish expositors and teachers have always regarded the day of atonement as a time of judgment. A time of great solemnity, a time when every individual spent time fasting and praying and sanctifying themselves , confessing sin and calling on God's mercy and grace to forgive, thus when The Day arrived, righteousness reigned.
The Day of Atonement itself consisted of offering certain sacrifices and the High priest entering the Most Holy Place to minister there. This ceremony 'cleansed' the sanctuary of all the sins that had accumulated there throughout the previous year, by the application of the blood of the Lord's goat, upon which no sin had been confessed. Throughout the year the sins of the people were transferred to the animal and through the application of the blood then transferred to the sanctuary. Thus it was necessary once a year, to 'cleanse' the sanctuary of all "the uncleanness of the children of Israel".( Leviticus 16) The Day had all about it an atmosphere of judgment. Final judgment. The people were told that this day was a most holy sabbath. They were to afflict their souls , search diligently their lives and examine themselves. Whosoever did not do this was cut off from the house of Israel. Levit. 23:27-32.

Now, has there been a time in church history where a "blowing of trumpets" has warned of a coming judgment? Has there been a specific time in the church age where people and ministers of the gospel began to warn the world of the second coming, and a time of judgment, and the need of the church to prepare through confession and consecration more so than at any other time in the church age? The answer is yes. I spoke of this in an other post when speaking of the great revival period of the late 18th and early 19th century when men and women from all parts of the globe were anointed by the Holy Spirit to preach and warn of the second coming, of coming judgement, and the need of confession of sin and to prepare. This became the focal point of evangelism for the very first time, and remains so today (or at least ought to be so today, though some churches have given up). At the same time God raised up Bible Societies. At the same time God established great missionary endeavours and missionary organisations. God was calling the world to get ready. The antitypical feast of trumpets had arrived.

And what was happening in heaven? Is there any indication in scripture that our High priest changed His focus and His ministry changed in any way? Is there any indication in scripture that Jesus , just as the High priest did so in the earthly sanctuary, went from the Holy Place to the Most Holy Place in the heavenly temple? Is there any indication in the scriptures of a time of judgement prior to the second coming? A time of judgement in heaven with respect to those upon the earth? The answer again is yes.I will deal with this specifically in my next post.

 

[brakelite]

Judgment before the second coming.

A study of the literary structure of Daniel 7 in the Hebrew reveals the following very interesting information.
Verses 2-8 is written in prose, and speaks of events to take place upon the earth. The rise and fall of nations, being Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece and Rome. It also touches upon the rise of Europe,(the 7 surviving horns) and the little horn (the antichrist) that would rise up among them and be responsible for the uprooting of 3 of the originial 10 horns.

Verses 9-10 is written in poetry form. It reveals an event that would take place in heaven. This event is a form of judgment. The books of heaven are opened.

Verses 11-12 goes back to prose, and again deals with what is to take place on earth. The subject again is the continuing role of the little horn, which lives until the sentence of death is executed.

Verses 13-14. Another heavenly related event, written in poetry form, and the subject is specifically the second coming. Verse 13 Christ is brought before His Father prior to His receiving from His Father the kingdom.

Note that the heavenly related events are chronologically before the second coming. These events involve 2 things. Jesus' ministry changed focus, whatever He was doing He is brought closer to His Father, and the books in heaven were opened. Later in Daniel we see the same thing. A chronological sequence where a heavenly event takes place prior to the second coming.
Daniel 7:9 ¶ I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his (antichrist's) dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Does any scripture connect these heavenly events with the Day of Atonement? In Daniel 8 :14 , in response to a question of one angel to another regarding the duration of the evils that are taking place upon the earth,we read the following:And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.


This cleansing of the sanctuary was understood by many at the peak of the previously mentioned "blowing of the trumpets" in the 18th and 19th century, to be a reference to the cleansing of the earth at the time of the second coming.As I mentioned elsewhere this 2300 days was equated as years by Bible scholars for centuries. They worked out that it would expire in the 1840s, and William Miller pinpointed to October 1844. No-one was able to seriously dispute the date.And to this day 1844 stands as a year of undisputed authority. The event that was to take place however on that day, was one for much debate and contention as you can imagine,. Those who looked forward to the second coming at this time came from many different denominations, but not all were sincere in their beliefs. Many believed from fear, others simply got caught up in the excitement of the times and went along with the rest. Others rejected the idea utterly and would have no part to play in it at all. For the genuine hopeful however, as the day passed and their hopes unfulfilled, that day became one known as the 'great disappointment'. Knowing the date was accurate, they returned to their Bibles to discover where they went wrong.

A study of Hebrews gave the answers they were searching for. The typical and antitypical events of the sanctuary services culminating in the "cleansing of the sanctuary" (Daniel 8:14): on the great Day of Atonement", which they now recognised as taking place in October 1844.

The judgment spoken of is an investigation of the books of heaven to find who is to receive their reward of eternal life at Christ's coming. "Behold I come quickly, and My reward is with Me to give every man as his work shall be." It must be ascertained before He comes, who He is to raise to life, who He is to translate, who He is to take back with Him to eternal life.

 

[brakelite]

The disappointment of the advent believers of 1844 was, we believe, in a sense analogous to the disappointment of the disciples in their expectation that Christ would set up His kingdom at His first advent. They were both correct on their respective time emphasis, as based on the fulfillment of prophetic time periods, but both were totally wrong as to the event to take place. Nevertheless, God's great plan of complete redemption through Jesus Christ moved on toward it's majestic close, meticulously fulfilling each of the multiple predictions, fulfilling all the types and shadows of the OT , which have been carried out in accordance with God's eternal purpose in Christ.
We do not consent therefore, that the Adventist church simply sprang out of a mistaken concept on the part of multiplied thousands scattered throughout all the leading churches of the old and new world, regarding the imminence of the second advent, any more than we admit that the apostolic church grew out of the mistaken concept of events that marked the first advent.
In both cases the transient human misconception was but a passing incident, which quickly gave way to those enduring foundation truths that constituted the occasion of, and afford the full justification for, the developments that followed. In each instance it resulted in a clearer understanding of our Lord and His redemptive work for man.
An emphasis on time was justifiable in each case, for the prophetic word had indicated that something of great importance was about to take place. In each instance the truth was beclouded by human misconception. But the initial disappointment was speedily followed by clarifying light. In each episode, despite initial expectations, a tremendous fulfillment had actually taken place in the wondrous outworking of Christ's redemptive activity for man.

This then is our faith: Christ has been moving forward from phase to phase in His all-encompassing work for the redemptive of sin-alienated lost mankind. Not one feature, or provision, has failed, or will fail. Our hope and our triumph are wholly in Him.

And when the second coming finally arrives, we will all together be taken to our promised reward of eternal life with Him. And there we will celebrate the final feast that thus far has not seen it's antitype. The feast of tabernacles, Succot. Celebrating our rescue from slavery to sin and bondage to the taskmaster, the prince of this earth. And in time to come, we will return to this planet along with the New Jerusalem and witness the creation of the new heaven and the new earth in person. What a day that will be.

 

[(THE)]

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White

Really are we talking about the same Ellen G White that claimed Christ would come for her in 1844 :biglaugh and when it didnt happen said this

"For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position."

Indeed many false prophets will arise and decieve many......

 

[RND]

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White

Really are we talking about the same Ellen G White that claimed Christ would come for her in 1844 :biglaugh and when it didnt happen said this

EGW never made that claim. William Miller did.

"For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position."

I highlighted the comment you failed to consider or ignore.

Indeed many false prophets will arise and decieve many......

That's true. EGW however isn't one of them.

Note to mods and all other posters:

This was my OP and I'd really appreciate it if you could keep this thread in a question/answer format as I had requested in my OP. Thanks in advance.

OP:

Hi!

This thread has been set up to counter a thread that has cropped up that is attempting to label the Seventh-day Adventist denomination as a non-Christian "cult." I have just a few ground rules and those are related to asking questions about the SDA fundamental beliefs.

Please 1) Limit your comments to the fundamental beliefs of the church, and 2) Please do not post anything from a cite that is considered "anti-SDA."

I will be happy to answer any question here that I can or I'm sure other SDA's that post here will do the same. This thread is not being set-up for any other reason than to answer questions you may have about the SDA church. You will see that by examining our FB's that for the most part we have the same general beliefs of most Christian denominations. I do recognize there are differences.

One area where I'm sure we agree is that we believe in the Godhead (trinity to most) of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and that these three are one in identity and purpose.

 

[(THE)]

huh????? I asked a question,,,,wanted to make sure were talking about the same person here,,,looks like we are,,,,,the same lady that said if we eat meat we will take on the nature of animals....shouldnt I be out in the pastures eating grass then (I eat alot of steak ummmm)

anyhow Christ said pick up thy cross and follow Me,,,,never said pick up thy cross and become a SDA......But im sure everyone can just research this lady and come to there own conclusion,,,I believe she was fake,,,,and after some research most people will see that too..........

But whatever floats your boat bro....

 

[Rick W]

Note to mods and all other posters:

This was my OP and I'd really appreciate it if you could keep this thread in a question/answer format as I had requested in my OP. Thanks in advance.

The board cannot support the advocacy of any one denomination. We cannot support the imposition of rules made by members over the ToS and censor/delete/edit posts as per the "rules" set forth by the individual.


May I suggest the 0ne on One Debate forum. :yes

 

[RND]

Note to mods and all other posters:

This was my OP and I'd really appreciate it if you could keep this thread in a question/answer format as I had requested in my OP. Thanks in advance.

The board cannot support the advocacy of any one denomination. We cannot support the imposition of rules made by members over the ToS and censor/delete/edit posts as per the "rules" set forth by the individual.


May I suggest the 0ne on One Debate forum. :yes

That's cool, this is fine then.

 

[brakelite]

Hi Rick.Of course RND can answer for himself, and if I am wrong concerning his motives I am sure he will let us know; I think what RND was trying to establish was a thread that dealt with questions concerning SDA thought and belief but kept within the bounds of Board rules. Not wanting to contravene board rules by promoting SDA doctrine, he was attempting to clarify commonly held misconceptions regarding SDA belief and thus give light to those who erroneously place the SDA church in the same bracket, for example, as the LDS and JWs.

I share the same concerns as he, as there is great misunderstanding, presumption, and bigotry based on second hand opinion concerning us rather than sincere and honest investigation. Much the same as there is similar attitude and discrimination against Christianity in general in the secular world. So I think the thread was designed to meet the needs of those who genuinely desire to know the truth about our fundamental beliefs : not as a vehicle for the abusive and intellectually challenged.

As I mentioned however in the thread further down on this section, this particular board is more tolerant than most, and its to its credit that we have the freedom we do.