Sheesh, what passes for "Christian" these days

[handy]

And, for those who have a medical reason and are living in a state where medical marijuana is legal, then there is no sin in using it for medicinal purposes. As Jesus said, it's not what goes into us that causes sin.

Also, I agree that there are some bad laws out there. I'm not of the agreement that doing away with the pot laws are a good idea, because we already have one legal drug, alcohol, and it causes a wealth of problems for us. However, if one wants to do away with the laws against pot, go ahead.

But, as long as it is still against the law, then Christians must abide by the law.

seekandlisten, if you're not a Christian, then it hardly matters. It's a mistake to think that those who are not of the faith need to follow the tenets of the faith. But, for those of us who are Christians, then we do have principles and commandments that we must follow and help each other to follow. That's part of our faith.

 

[watchman F]

I'm not justifying smoking...If anyone needs something other than God to be happy...than that is a sad person...That being said I'm leaving it alone...It's not all that anyway...I could get arrested 2

:silly I'm very unproductive when I smoke anyhow

I think that is awesome

 

[handy]

I'm not justifying smoking...If anyone needs something other than God to be happy...than that is a sad person...That being said I'm leaving it alone...It's not all that anyway...I could get arrested 2

:silly I'm very unproductive when I smoke anyhow
totopic totopic

I do hope that you do "leave it alone" Oats...it is against the law, and as you point out, you're unproductive when you smoke. There is a real correlation between being stoned and being drunk. And, as a Christian, you are commanded not to be getting drunk, so I encourage you to not get stoned either.

Besides, Christ gave you life abundant...do you really want to miss out on abundant life because you're wacked out on weed? Of course not!

 

[seekandlisten]

1st Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The word sorceries in the Greek Pharmekeia means to use medicine, or drugs, or to practice magic. Revelation 9 says.

Revelation 9: 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Using mind altering substances for recreation is sin.

Interesting way to link it to 'sin'. I can't say I agree but to each their own. The Bible also states many times to 'Judge not lest ye be judged' so I would think one might want to hesitate on stating denial into heaven for smoking weed even if they think it's a 'sin' themselves.

If you read a little further in 1 Corinthians 2 it also states, "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment". Sounds like we should be grabbing a mirror instead of a microscope kind of thing.

cheers

 

[seekandlisten]

seekandlisten, if you're not a Christian, then it hardly matters. It's a mistake to think that those who are not of the faith need to follow the tenets of the faith. But, for those of us who are Christians, then we do have principles and commandments that we must follow and help each other to follow. That's part of our faith.

True enough but I think there are far more important aspects of Jesus teachings that Christians fail to follow that should be the primary focus rather than little things of petty relevance.

cheers

 

[Oats]

seekandlisten, if you're not a Christian, then it hardly matters. It's a mistake to think that those who are not of the faith need to follow the tenets of the faith. But, for those of us who are Christians, then we do have principles and commandments that we must follow and help each other to follow. That's part of our faith.

True enough but I think there are far more important aspects of Jesus teachings that Christians fail to follow that should be the primary focus rather than little things of petty relevance.

cheers

Such as?

 

[watchman F]

1st Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The word sorceries in the Greek Pharmekeia means to use medicine, or drugs, or to practice magic. Revelation 9 says.

Revelation 9: 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Using mind altering substances for recreation is sin.

Interesting way to link it to 'sin'. I can't say I agree but to each their own. The Bible also states many times to 'Judge not lest ye be judged' so I would think one might want to hesitate on stating denial into heaven for smoking weed even if they think it's a 'sin' themselves.

''Judge not lest you be judge with the same judgment you place on others you will be judge by''. Do you know what that means? It means if i think it is a sin for someone to smoke weed ect... then it would be a sin for me to do it. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you read a little further in 1 Corinthians 2 it also states, "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment". Sounds like we should be grabbing a mirror instead of a microscope kind of thing.

cheers

Right make spiritual man judges all thing, but is judged by no man. Good deal huh? The reason that our spiritual man can do this is because it is our flesh that is sinful not our spirit

 

[Pard]

seekandlisten, if you're not a Christian, then it hardly matters. It's a mistake to think that those who are not of the faith need to follow the tenets of the faith. But, for those of us who are Christians, then we do have principles and commandments that we must follow and help each other to follow. That's part of our faith.

True enough but I think there are far more important aspects of Jesus teachings that Christians fail to follow that should be the primary focus rather than little things of petty relevance.

cheers

And if you were a Christian perhaps someone would take stock in this, but you are not, so I hardly see the point in you trying to preach to a Christian about how to be a better Christian when in fact any Christian is a better Christian then you...

 

[handy]

Yeah, seekandlisten, ...how to put it?

I mean, I'd hardly go onto a Buddhist site and start telling the Buddhist how to be better Buddhists. It does seem a bit...officious.

 

[seekandlisten]

Yeah, seekandlisten, ...how to put it?

I mean, I'd hardly go onto a Buddhist site and start telling the Buddhist how to be better Buddhists. It does seem a bit...officious.

I have no problem with a Christian believing what a Christian believes. The unity in beliefs among the different sections of Christians seems to vary though. I agree with Jesus teaching and I read the Bible. There are just certain beliefs that, I think anyways, go against what Jesus taught or are added on links made that aren't there. That is neither here nor there but I don't think people should come off like they know who is and isn't getting into 'heaven' when the Bible, which you believe is the literal Word of God, doesn't support that concept. The Bible speaks of ways to recognize the 'spirit'.

I don't mean to offend but I enjoy conversations in regards to religions but I my beliefs are for me and that is all. While I may express my opinions that is all it is, my opinion.

cheers

 

[seekandlisten]

True enough but I think there are far more important aspects of Jesus teachings that Christians fail to follow that should be the primary focus rather than little things of petty relevance.

Such as?

Love of others, humility, unity, forgiveness, meekness, recognizing all us humans approach 'God' at the same level and we should be working together not fighting amongst ourselves about who is more 'right'.

cheers

 

[handy]

recognizing all us humans approach 'God' at the same level and we should be working together not fighting amongst ourselves about who is more 'right'.

This is hardly a teaching of Christ's.

As for what is " far more important" for the church, it depends upon what is happening. What is happening in the church right now is that the moral standard that God holds His people to is being compromised more and more egregiously everyday.

The emphasis of Jesus' on love is important yes, but not really germane to the issue I brought up in the OP, which was those who profess to be Christians, not only allowing rank immorality to happen within their own home, but to allow it to happen when a young Christian girl was visiting.

In this case, the important teaching of Christ's isn't so much, "love one another" but rather "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

 

[Neo]

Handy, You may be surprised but I agree with you....to an extent. I have a 3 yr old daughter and no boy will ever lay a finger on here while he is my house. She will not go to anyone else's house that condones such things either. To say that it is not "being a good christian" is a stretch though. In biblical times it was very common for very young girls to be married to much older men. Yes, they were married but the fact still remains about the age discrepancy. There was still premarital sex and it is even written the "we are to have many partners before we find the one ordained by god" (excuse me if I don't remember the exact location of this verse).
I am glad that there are atheists in here. As you all probably know by now from some entries in other threads that I am not what you would call a "traditional christian". Christians use the Bible in the right and wrong ways. Yes, it is a good tool for living one's life and having a moral compass, but it is not divine. It is not god's word. It is man's word defining god and therefore only an interpretation of our own ideologies, which is very old. We are in a state that has moved away from a lot of the moral compasses that we once adhered to. In some ways that is good (i.e. woman, mental illlness, homosexuality) but in many ways it is sending our society in a moral tailspin causing teenage mothers and juvenile offenders at very young ages. We do need a spiritual wake up, but not necessarily based on the teachings from 1700 years ago. We need to have a new direction for faith that appeals to a more logical society.

 

[handy]

Neo,

I don't really have a problem with the whole older guy/younger girl bit...as a matter of fact, we sort of have a situation in our family. Not that the guy gets to date our daughter, nor does he want to at this time (he's no pedophile). But, he seems content to wait for her until she is old enough. We'll see if either of them has the patience. If, after 5 years, they are still interested in each other, I won't have a problem with it at all. She'll be 18 then, he'll be 25, and if they have a 5 year friendship behind them, their chances for a solid relationship seem pretty good. As I say though, we'll see...

There was still premarital sex and it is even written the "we are to have many partners before we find the one ordained by god" (excuse me if I don't remember the exact location of this verse).

I think the reason why you can't remember the exact location of this verse is because it truly doesn't exist. It sounds as if it is either something that was included in some writing that got some mileage, or it is a mangled paraphrase of an existing verse, which, if we could track it down, probably means something quite different. If you can track down what text you're referring to, let me know, I'll be happy to study it. (Are you sure it isn't in the Karma Sutra? :P )

That there was premarital sex is no surprise, there is nothing new under the sun. But, I cannot think of any passage of Scripture that condones fornication, not one.

I do believe that the Bible is God's fully inspired and inerrant Word, and therefore, must remain the standard by which to form our morals. I do agree that the Bible is used in a right way and a wrong way, but if something is clearly stated as sinful in the Scriptures, then it is sin, for all time, not just "back then".

And, my earlier comments to seekandlisten notwithstanding, I too, am glad we have atheists, agnostics and other non-Christians here. Always good to have a free marketplace of ideas and opposing opinions. It just seemed a bit strange to have someone who just stated that he was not a Christian then tell a Christian which of Jesus' teachings are important and which are petty.

 

[Theofilus]

There was still premarital sex and it is even written the "we are to have many partners before we find the one ordained by god" (excuse me if I don't remember the exact location of this verse).

The reason you don't remember the exact verse is probably because it isn't there. I've never heard of this one before, but I assume it's something like "God helps those who help themselves". A lot of people think that's in the Bible too, but it isn't. Neither is "Those whom God loves die young" nor a number of other things that people think are there.

 

[handy]

Yes, "Cleanliness is next to godliness" isn't in the Bible either. And, boy am I glad, or else my computer room here would be deemed a fairly "godless" place!

 

[Pard]

There was still premarital sex and it is even written the "we are to have many partners before we find the one ordained by god" (excuse me if I don't remember the exact location of this verse).

The reason you don't remember the exact verse is probably because it isn't there. I've never heard of this one before, but I assume it's something like "God helps those who help themselves". A lot of people think that's in the Bible too, but it isn't. Neither is "Those whom God loves die young" nor a number of other things that people think are there.

Not only is it not there, but I can give personal examples why it is not true! I know many people who have only dated a single person in their entire lives and truly that person was the one meant by God.

Yes, "Cleanliness is next to godliness" isn't in the Bible either. And, boy am I glad, or else my computer room here would be deemed a fairly "godless" place!

Well, truly, nothing can be "next to godliness" for ALL things fall short of our Lord Elohim! :amen

Handy, I think I remember you talking about that boy before. He is the guy who works at the grocery store, right? I feel that is a very responsible thing for you to do. Not only the whole "wait 'till you are 18" but also understanding that often times love does not car about the boundaries of age. My parents are hostile to me dating someone even two years younger than me! (Need I remind them that they are 3 years apart? :rolling )

 

[jasoncran]

Weed is ILLEGAL. Breaking the law IS sinful. There, it does not matter anymore than that. It is a sin for it is illegal. End of story.

In my country I can legally buy cannibas seeds and soil but I don't dare mix them together otherwise I just committed a 'horrendous' crime. Do you know why it's illegal? Due to greed and the money to be made off of the lumber and cotton industry. 1 acre of hemp is equivalent to 4 acres of trees. One of the most useful plants 'God' gave us yet some seem to have an issue with it due to mainly to money that can be made by using cotton, lumber, pharmacuetacals, etc.

cheers

in portugal its legal for heirone and all manner of drugs. should we let that do. one doesnt smoke pot for pleasure then its a sin. when its medicinal then its not.

marijuana affects judment if smoked enough. by your thinking then in portugal i should i get high as i want.

just cause its legal doestn mean its adivisable. nor not a sin.

 

[Pard]

Jason,

Go read the posts previous. WM is trying to convince two non-Christians that weed is sinful and they are not budging (actually, Seek almost started teaching Christians about Christianity... or thinking he could ). I was merely trying to end the entire discussion on weed, because by illegality alone it is a sin.

It was an attempt to get back on topic. As I stated before, all drugs are sinful and should be condemned for being sinful.

And before someone brings up that stupid thing with caffeine again, I avoid caffeine as much as possible. I do not drink coffee or tea and I try to avoid soda with caffeine in it as much as possible. I don't drink energy drinks or anything like that. Sometimes caffeine cannot be helped though, since it is in SO many things. (Don't use that for weed... weed is only in things people KNOW it is in.)

 

[jasoncran]

in a sense that diversion is revelant as well i know of one that smoke weed and plays a guitar for a church. not mine.